Lincoln Park ‘stalker’ encounter: Reader shares an alert

| Safety | West Seattle news | West Seattle parks

If you saw police in the Lincoln Park area yesterday afternoon – here’s what it was about. Just out of the WSB inbox:

Yesterday about 3:30 PM, I (woman, late fifties, in good shape) was stalked by a white male, early 30’s, 5’11”, about 175, fairly attractive, with broad shoulders and about a 29 pant size – athletic. He had on a black ski hat, and I believe it had an orange stripe around it, a navy jacket with the collar up around his jaw, and light gray sweat pants.

I was walking from the south going north to the bluff trail, and just past the children’s zip-line ride towards the bluff trail. This man just appeared out of nowhere, and was heading for me, having to circle bushes that were too thick to walk through, but short enough to see over. He was looking straight into my eyes. As soon as he got around the bushes, about 8 feet from me, he noticed I had two dogs, so he made a U-turn and started walking next to me heading for the bluff trail. We were secluded and had not come to the trail yet. The park has bunch of little trails right there, and I was on the main trail. I don’t know where he came from.

My intuition, and the events with attackers at the park, put me on high alert, and I knew I didn’t want him behind me, so I stopped and told him to go ahead of me. He did, but as we walked, he kept slowing down, forcing me to slow down or get closer to him than I wanted to get. I knew there are benches along the bluff trail and we would come to one soon, so I waited him out and than stopped at the first view point with a bench. I did some stretching and must have waited about 10 minutes before I started back up the trail, thinking he had time to move along.

After I began walking up the trail, I met a woman with a cute dog and we talked about dogs while our dogs played a bit. Next I came upon an older couple who pointed out an eagle in a tree to me, so I talked to them and watched the eagle for a while. The guy I had let pass me, the creep, had plenty of time to move up the trail.

On the trail is a workout station to do pullups, and at that station, I thought I would go into the woods and “relieve myself”. After all a woman in her late fifties has to pee all the time. Well thank God & Goddess that before I went into the woods, I stopped to check if anybody was around, and there was that guy! He was behind a tree and I could see his arm. As I moved closer to him to make sure what I was seeing, he moved around the tree hiding from me. He almost caught me with my pants down! A lesson for me!

After I finally realized he was hiding from me and I had better get out of there, I went back onto the trail and a young woman with headphones on was jogging down the trail. I stopped her, thinking she wouldn’t hear the guy come out behind her, and she & I walked out of the park together. We decided his behavior was too strange and we called 911.

By the time we got to the north parking lot, at the instruction of the 911 operator, the police were on their way, and took our statement in the parking lot. The police called me last night, telling me a total of four cars searched the park, and they did not find the guy.

All & all, it was a pretty scary afternoon and I am sure as I think about how that guy was staring hard into my eyes that he had ill intent for me or some other woman. This is not the first time my dogs have saved me from predator men. I grew up in Lincoln Park and have been going there my whole life, and am always careful to stay on main trails, but nonetheless, this guy found me at the most secluded juncture of my walk.

Please pass this along. I wish to remain anonymous.

There was some scanner traffic regarding this search yesterday – we had checked with police, who had nothing to report at the time, but we are checking again. While at this point there is no indication this had anything to do with the suspect arrested, charged, and released last week, Duane Starkenburg, we should note that part of the conditions of his release on bond was an order to stay out of Lincoln Park.

ADDED 11:25 AM: Responding to our followup e-mail, she says she was shown a photo of Starkenburg and “it was not him.”

T-Rex February 2, 2011 (11:10 am)

Wonder if all the press is luring creeps from other areas over to our beautiful park. No offense TR, you know we all love this blog and it is great to share information like this.
We as West Seattlites need to run these creeps the heck out of dodge. And use whatever means is required. Like big dogs, big sticks and whatever else is neccesary!

Alki Resident February 2, 2011 (11:19 am)

It sounds to me perhaps some undercover cops should be”jogging” the park for awhile to make sure tis creep gets locked up.I really hope this isn’t Starkenburg,doing something a little different.

cclarue February 2, 2011 (11:20 am)

am i reading this correctly? that a woman was walking in the park, encountered a man who seemed creepy, felt uncomfortable, and still decided to relieve herself in the woods? I think that the last thing you would do is to pull your pants down after that… and make his job possibly easier.. I mean no disrespect as i know the feeling of uh oh gotta go now can creeep up very quickly..but after an encounter like that I think i would just want to get out of there asap. I really hope that mr starkenburg is not back in the park. i know that age description does not match but with enough clothing on he could appear younger. I know the woman did not actually get to the poing of relieving herself because he popped up again but we as women need to trust our instincts and get to a more populated area asap . I am sorry that this happened and dont want to see people driven away from that beautiful park!!! ick !

Kelly Stp February 2, 2011 (11:20 am)

Good for you for reporting him! It’s good to get his pattern on record in case. If it doesn’t stop him from attacking, it helps strengthen the case if he does attacks and gets caught. Also helps police eventually figure out who he is.

Paul February 2, 2011 (11:21 am)

this might help

http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/firearms/faconceal.html

bwilson February 2, 2011 (11:31 am)

There are two bathrooms in public areas of the park very close to where she was planning on “relieveing herself”. Very strange thing to do considering the circumstances……

onceachef February 2, 2011 (11:34 am)

I’m sorry but doing anything but getting away from him (like turn around and go back) or calling 911 right away after his suspicious behavior are truly negligent…relieving yourself?…slowing down…please! Get away from the situation (i.e., go to a populated area or leave entirely) and get help. Sometimes, I wonder….common sense, anyone? (yes I know there isn’t such a thing)! Other women take note…don’t do what this woman did…not a good example. I also suggest that you carry a whistle…it’s light and loud…it’s better than shouting and will usually scare off anyone trying to be anonymous.

MacJ February 2, 2011 (11:46 am)

All I can think of is how somebody who’s 5’11” and 175lbs could possibly fit into a 29 waist. What a weird observation!

WSB February 2, 2011 (11:54 am)

Hi all, no more of the “what were you thinking?”, please. If you have never done something that, looking back, didn’t make sense, well, hooray for you. Despite having been in news for a million years, I can even recall a time or two when I should have called police immediately about something that happened and should have NOT done what I did instead – then later thought “geez, how idiotic that was.” We published this in the spirit of a reminder to be watchful, and we thank the e-mailer for deciding to sound a wider alert – TR

desertdweller February 2, 2011 (11:56 am)

Maybe this is an opportunity for some well-placed signs along the trails that mark the restrooms for park patrons?

@MacJ: Yup. I was thinking the same thing. The dude must be seriously skinny.

csw February 2, 2011 (12:15 pm)

We as women have to learn to put our safefy first. If we think something is not right, it’s not right, period. We can’t be afraid of making an ass out of ourselves. . . . make a scene! Let’s get these creeps out of our park. Ladies, we have got to carry pepper spray/personal alarms/stun guns when on the trails in the park. I was at the park at 5PM yesterday, all seemed calm, but I was on the walkway next to the water/beach.

A February 2, 2011 (12:19 pm)

I wonder about this – her description was almost TOO detailed. And please people use a bathroom!

MJ February 2, 2011 (12:21 pm)

I’m glad to have this information…its a good reminder to stay vigilant, call the police when things seem suspicious, and to look out for each other.

Bill February 2, 2011 (12:22 pm)

Maybe it is time to form some walking/jogging groups for safety, and possibly some “Guardian Angel” groups to walk the park. I am no vigilante, but there is some safety and prevention here in numbers.

DonQuix February 2, 2011 (12:25 pm)

No doubt that it’s unfortunate we all have to be on high alert. And I’m sorry that the lady felt uncomfortable.

However, the park has bathrooms and none of them are located in the trees by the pull up area.

DOC February 2, 2011 (12:26 pm)

I’m 6′ 1″ tall, weigh about 175-180 and have a 32 inch waist. That dude must be REALLY skinny!

moxilot February 2, 2011 (12:32 pm)

Seriously, enough with the bashing of the woman. She may have incorrectly guessed the weight of the man and looking back probably would reconsider peeing in the woods… but commenting on those details greatly detracts from the fact that there is potentially another attacker in Lincoln Park. At the very least (but still unacceptable), there’s a weirdo that is hiding, following, and watching women when they are vulnerable.

To the woman that wrote in: thank you for looking out for others by noticing the female jogger with the headphones and making her aware of the situation– by calling 911– and by notifying the WSB. We are all better armed with this information.

Rick in the park February 2, 2011 (12:39 pm)

I have complained to people repeatedly that Lincoln park is not a public toilet. If people in the park are truely concerned about other people, perhaps they should consider behaving themselves and acting responsibly.

Born To Be Mild February 2, 2011 (12:54 pm)

http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/public-urination-in-seattle-372443.html

cs February 2, 2011 (12:57 pm)

where can you buy pepper spray?

Paul February 2, 2011 (1:02 pm)

If I were a single female I would opt for walking/jogging along alki

Rick in the park February 2, 2011 (1:16 pm)

As far as Guardian Angels in Lincoln Park are concerned, there are those of us that daily walk the lesser used trails and woods in the park, checking on unwanted types hanging about drinking or camping or whatever. But we can’t spend the whole day down there.
Bottom line, if you feel uncomfortable being in a particular area of the park at a particular time, then perhaps you should leave, or make a point of being with a friend .
I’m a man in my 50s,and even I wouldn’t be in that park alone after dusk.

Kathleen February 2, 2011 (1:16 pm)

I don’t think that the comments about peeing in the woods or how skinny the dude is are bashing the woman at all. As I read the email, I thought it was strange that she would do that given that she was scared but reading the posts and reading what she wrote reinforced it for me. Yes, we have all done stuff like that, but I do believe it is helpful to draw this to our attention. I know that if I were in that position now I would not go to relieve myself, and the posts really strengthened that. Maybe if I hadn’t read them I would have not thought about it so much, like her. As for ths skinny dude, that is also helpful. Maybe he is super skinny. This would help folks recognize him, for sure. I don’t think it is all bashing– it is helpful!

onceachef February 2, 2011 (1:31 pm)

Pepper spray can be bought from numerous sources:

http://www.thespysupply.com/
http://counterassault.com/index.html

and for the “design-minded” -http://www.pepperface.com/store/products.html

Usually at an “Army/Navy” Surplus store (there’s one on 4th Ave S near Michigan)….some gun stores most likely have it.

chrisma February 2, 2011 (1:35 pm)

Here’s an idea: why not make Lincoln Park Female Only 3 days a week and Male Only 3 days a week. Let’s say Saturday or Sunday could be mixed. Post signage prominently. That way if women encounter a man in the park on a female only day, no second guessing needed before calling 911. Same goes for the men. Although I think I can guess what most of the 911 calls would be about on the male only days.

Big Red February 2, 2011 (1:42 pm)

I don’t know if any of you have been to Lincoln Park but I was there this last weekend and had to relieve myself and ALL of the women’s bathrooms were locked up tight. No bashing this poor woman; when nature calls sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do!!

biankat February 2, 2011 (2:06 pm)

Last time I was at Fry’s in Renton (last year sometime) I noticed there was a ton of pepper spray for sale. I thought it odd, but it was there nonetheless.

Gatewooder February 2, 2011 (2:13 pm)

I wonder if the bathrooms have been locked up because of Parks budget cuts?

Lola February 2, 2011 (2:19 pm)

Big Red I think the bathrooms being closed is a sign of the times with the budget cuts. I know a few months ago my husband and I were down by Alki and he went in to use the restroom. He came out laughing as he said the Parks Dept had posted a sign in the bathroom stating that due to budget cuts they could not clean the bathrooms so to clean up after yourselfs. We had to laugh as we walked past the freshly planted strip next to the bathrooms.

haha February 2, 2011 (2:27 pm)

“where can you buy pepper spray?”

This was a great question. I of course have some for hiking. But also keep it next to my bed for ease of mind in case of a intruder. But a women exercising by herself in a park like Lincoln would be very smart to carry some. You can go to any firearms/sporting goods stores. They sell a small containers and belt clip holders for them.

Unfortunately these are just the times we live in.

JenF February 2, 2011 (2:28 pm)

I would personally rather pee in the woods than go into one of those bathrooms where someone could be hiding.

Jeff February 2, 2011 (2:28 pm)

chrisma thats the dumbest solution to a problem like this I have ever heard.

In fact I have to come back and edit. Seriously!?? Segregation is your solution? How can you even justify that?

Lensar February 2, 2011 (2:29 pm)

I’m hoping this email was just a hoax, because the other alternative is much more concerning.
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…early 30′s, 5’11″, about 175, fairly attractive, with broad shoulders and about a 29 pant size – athletic.,
– In my experience, no one has ever detailed someone’s pants size when describing a possible suspect. And in a situation like this, mentioning the attractiveness of a suspect is not ordinary behavior.
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After I began walking up the trail, I met a woman with a cute dog and we talked about dogs while our dogs played a bit. Next I came upon an older couple who pointed out an eagle in a tree to me, so I talked to them and watched the eagle for a while.
– People who are lying have a tendency to provide additional superfluous information. Because they know they are lying, they feel like they need added justification when they don’t, so they often add in stuff like this.
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On the trail is a workout station to do pullups, and at that station, I thought I would go into the woods and “relieve myself”.
– This would suggest to me that it was a joke. It’s not what a prudent person would do.
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I think about how that guy was staring hard into my eyes that he had ill intent for me or some other woman. This is not the first time my dogs have saved me from predator men.
– Using the term “predator men” coupled with the assumption that his eyes showed “ill intent” also worries me, for reasons that should be obvious.
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It’s important for everyone to remain vigilant, especially after recent events, but I probably wouldn’t have published this email and instead would have waited for a police statement.
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WSB February 2, 2011 (2:42 pm)

Lensar, there ARE NO POLICE STATEMENTS on things like this. This is what we keep trying to explain when we publish reports of burglaries, etc., that we wouldn’t even see on the police-report map for days – if at all. I would rather publish one thing that turns out to be questionable (but harms no one because no specific people, addresses, license plate numbers, are mentioned, etc., since that’s our policy not to publish any identifying info such as that) than hold it back because I thought “hmm” and it turns out to have been true – and someone gets attacked today, tomorrow, next week. Fact: There was a police report yesterday of a suspicious person in the park. Fact: Police responded and searched. We not only heard the scanner traffic, with a similar description to what this person mentioned (without there having been any other publicity), it’s also on the city incident-report map. We got this today. I published it rather than withhold information that MIGHT be helpful. And when there is no harm to be done – no actual person’s name to be besmirched, etc. – we will err on the side of public safety every time …
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If you think there is harm in people “panicking” – it’s your choice whether to panic. I think most people are mature enough to take information under advisement, rather than as triggers for panic. This doesn’t panic me, and I’m a woman living near Lincoln Park and walk there alone on occasion. It does mean that I might ratchet up the watchfulness a bit – anywhere, not just this wonderful park.
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TR

ipeefreely February 2, 2011 (2:37 pm)

I pee in the woods on occasion. It’s great! I got a kick out of the fact that she does too–despite the creep.

And thank you, dear lady, for sharing your story. I have been finding Lincoln Park very creepy lately after not at all last year. The vibe is different. I’m really glad you are okay!

I do have one idea that might be productive:

Since the nice dudes are upset that they are being stared at suspiciously, and the women are tense and freaked out, what about some workout buddy thing where the men could meet up for walks or people could post and set up times. This could all be resolved if people had partners and it’s more fun that way anyway. I know there are a lot of men who live near by and are ‘regulars’. How about if you fellas agreed to be escorts? It could be as simple as having times when we know somebody is going to be at a certain place and whoever wants to show up and go in a group could. I would personally like this as I love to take pictures in Lincoln but not so much alone anymore…

Bill February 2, 2011 (2:41 pm)

Not trying to bash this woman but her details of the event are a bit odd. With the woman in Fremont being outed as a fake, I think we should all take a deep breath before we panic about “crazies” running all over the park.

SV February 2, 2011 (2:58 pm)

I don’t believe this story but agree that when walking in the park you should always be prepared for anything: falling tree branches, loose dogs & weirdos.

Lensar February 2, 2011 (3:26 pm)

I would rather publish one thing that turns out to be questionable (…) than hold it back because I thought “hmm” and it turns out to have been true – and someone gets attacked today, tomorrow, next week.
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Thanks for the reply, that sounds very reasonable. I really like WSB and would hate to see any “jokesters” take advantage of a very helpful WS community news source. But you’re right that it never hurts to be more watchful.

MAS February 2, 2011 (3:33 pm)

I’m curious what the police would have been expected to do if they’d caught up with this person. You can’t arrest someone for walking slowly on a path, or looking creepy. Not even for “hiding” behind a tree in a public park.

The only actual crime described in this story was that of public indecency (I’m just guessing that’s the charge for peeing outdoors in a public park.)

csw2119 February 2, 2011 (3:39 pm)

I also find all the details of this story interesting/odd.

I bought a personal alarm from Radio Shack a couple years ago. Super easy to use, when you need to, you just pull a pin out. Keep one next to your bed too.

visitor February 2, 2011 (3:46 pm)

29″ waist? My brother has a 33″ waist and he is SKINNY. I can’t imagine. Got to be really easy to find this guy, because there’s not to many of that size out there.

nighthawk February 2, 2011 (3:47 pm)

Mounted patrols are great for places like Lincoln park and hitting the trails and making a nice visible police presence to deter guys like this.

too bad Seattle is getting rid of them.

Born To Be Mild February 2, 2011 (4:24 pm)

For those of you who think the solution is pepper spray, a handgun, or an assault rifle, please do me a favor and practice using this stuff. I took the NRA class and decided I would need a lot of practice before I would be effective in a stressful situation. As much as I’d like to to take out some spandex wearing athlete intent on having their way with MY 40 inch waist, I don’t think more firepower without the skills to use it is the solution.

CurlyQ February 2, 2011 (4:36 pm)

I like the advice of the woman who was attacked by Duane Starkenburg last week–ALWAYS carry a cell phone with you.

P February 2, 2011 (5:08 pm)

Well, this posting and the comments are pretty interesting. I’m sorry that this woman felt uncomfortable – I’m a woman and I walk alone in the park all the time, and I don’t like it when I feel I have to be nervous upon seeing someone that sets off my alarm bells.

That being said, I do wonder about the role of interpretation in this story. The basic facts seem to be that the guy looked the woman in the eyes, walked next to her for a short distance up the path, then he went ahead, then she didn’t see him for a while, then she saw him again in the woods.

Lots of people look me in the eye when I’m walking in the park, then we both say hello. Making eye contact isn’t necessarily a creepy thing. And maybe he himself went into the woods to pee, got behind a tree for privacy, then saw that this woman had also come into the woods, and he worried that she might be stalking him? After all, she asked him to go ahead, then “followed” him into the woods with her dogs.

If there’s a creep in the park, OK, it’s a public space, and I’d head for a more-public area where there are lots of people. Being a creep isn’t a crime. Stalking probably is.

So, folks, how can we tell when someone’s (a) just a creep, (b) a stalker, or (c) an innocent person being misread? An honest question — I’d really like to hear responses.

Genesee Hill February 2, 2011 (5:54 pm)

CurlyQ:

Yes, indeed! One of the greatest reasons to own a cell phone – for emergencies.

miws February 2, 2011 (6:15 pm)

Although budget cuts may be an issue, It’s typical of Parks to close down at least some restrooms for the Winter months.

Mike

Mark February 2, 2011 (6:24 pm)

I had a 32 waist back in college. Peaked at 36 and now I’m about a 34. 29 just seems really skinny. Maybe he was foregging for nuts and berries….

Tommycat February 2, 2011 (6:29 pm)

I am a very close personal friend of the person who was involved in this encounter and I can assure you that the incident did, in fact, happen as described.

As pointed out in previous comments, accuracy of the waist size or prudence of peeing in the bushes is not the issue here.

The issue is that there are two-legged predators out there and we all, especially women, need to be aware, alert and ready to defend ourselves if necessary. The specific means of self defense is up to the individual.

In this case, self-defense consisted of keeping some distance between the predator and the potential victim (good thing her radar was working), along with sounding the alarm to others on the trail.

Second-guessing someone in a situation like this is real easy. Actually encountering a predator and reacting in a manner that keeps you safe is not so easy.

cathyw February 2, 2011 (6:35 pm)

A men’s size 29″ waist is equal to a woman’s size 4-6:
http://www.kgbanswers.com/mens-size-29-waist-is-equal-to-what-size-womens-pants/4079378

(Although that may not be saying much because at Chico’s I take a size 1 and I’m really a 12! :)

Tommycat February 2, 2011 (6:41 pm)

Oh, and don’t forget to have a dog or two with you.

A breed that is willing and able to rip a man’s throat out is about right, although one that is capable of insane barking at a threat is a close second.

THE stalked woman February 2, 2011 (6:53 pm)

I was so surprised people might think I was lying. As I walked behind the guy, I thought how skinny his butt and legs were. I’m glad the small butt is so noted. As for my peeing in the woods, my husband told me not to include that, but I thought there probably are other women who also “go” outside. I’m not the only one. Lensar’s comment about my experience being a joke because I did shared my intention to pee outside, prompted my husband to say: “He obviously doesn’t know you.” I don’t need to make this stuff up. The guy creeped me out from his first stare, but I thought he had gone on away from me. I’d do it differently next time, since I was awake most of the night last night thinking about ALL the details.

GenHillOne February 2, 2011 (7:09 pm)

We have a 6′ tall 29-inch waist in our house. I wouldn’t call him broad shouldered and definitely lean. With more bulk though, I wouldn’t say that a 30-inch waist is out the realm of possibilities, and if the witness was an inch off? meh.

Tim February 2, 2011 (7:38 pm)

We carry pepper spray right here in West Seattle.
West Seattle Runner
3727 California Ave

We also have running/walking groups Wednesdays, 6am and 6pm as well as a Sunday 8am group. All are welcome. Saftey in numbers.

kg February 2, 2011 (7:49 pm)

Born to be Mild,
Great advice to those who think they need mace, pepper spray, tazers, pistols or evil black sport-utility rifles (LOL). Get some training with your defensive item of choice. Finding out too late that shooting pepper spray into a stiff wind will make for a bad day.

WSRes February 2, 2011 (7:52 pm)

It almost seems to me like this guy might have stalked this women before, knew that she often exposed herself in the woods, and was perhaps hanging around for another look. This is the only way that I can really imagine the buffoonish act of hiding behind the tree. Otherwise it seems like a really odd story. Not that I don’t think this women has ample reason for concern.

FDR February 2, 2011 (7:57 pm)

The only thing we have to Fear is Fear itself…

Nervous Nelly February 2, 2011 (8:29 pm)

I’ve been to Lincoln Park a lot lately, and rather than creepy guys lurking behind trees, what I’ve seen is a huge increase of off-leash dogs. And that is what makes me nervous….

alkilover February 2, 2011 (8:39 pm)

Who are we to judge if her story is valid or not… She felt uncomfortable and shared her story with fellow park visitors. Appreciate what is being shared and apply to your life where needed. If we continue to judge and make unsupportive comments, it might stop someone in the future to post and share their story for fear of judgement.

Cami February 2, 2011 (8:41 pm)

This has to be one of the most entertaining threads on WSB! From waist size, to pepper spray to peeing in the woods. HA!

redblack February 2, 2011 (8:46 pm)

not sure that anyone has noticed, but lincoln park is within the borders of the 23rd largest city in america. as such, we have some of the best kooks and weirdos on earth.
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please don’t let the idyllic settings of this or any other city park lull you into a false sense of safety. for example, one could be abducted in discovery park pretty easily, too. when enjoying our parks alone, be vigilant, and be prepared to encounter freaks.
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having said that, two dogs are probably a good deterrent – provided they’re trained to protect their people in an urban environment.
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regarding peeing on public property: as a man, i sometimes – and only in rare, desperate circumstances! – take advantage of the fact that i can do this subtly. as long as no one can see your junk, why should women be afforded any less right to break the law? it’s not like we’re dumping used motor oil…
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and, please, be careful how you interpret this post.

Mookie February 2, 2011 (9:06 pm)

Speaking of pepper spray: You can buy ones that contain an ultraviolet dye for police identification, or the one I’ll soon be carrying: Pepper spray with a bright green dye that can take days to remove from the skin.

WestSide45 February 2, 2011 (9:20 pm)

Had she held in her urine she could have contracted uromysitisis poisoning.

adam February 2, 2011 (9:43 pm)

It is fascinating in our present times and culture, that in all our discussion, this man is presumptively guilty as accused by a person who felt uncomfortable. No actual crime here. No threat implicit or explicit. Mere presence, mere existence of a guy and a woman who was creeped out. And we presume his guilt by virtue of her discomfort (which, given her comments on his attractiveness, nice slim butt, riveting eye contact, well you get the picture, the oddity that others have noted…) Our society of laws purports that one is innocent until proven guilty. What nonsense, evidently! This is guilt by accusation, and we all buy into it. This is fear for the sake of fear itself. And we should be ashamed as we chime into the chorus. We can be better than this!

NotMe February 2, 2011 (9:45 pm)

I am not buying some of this story. If she was so frightened in the beginning, why would she ever decide to take her pants down – and if I read correctly – after seeing him lurking around?
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I disagree somewhat on carrying the story too soon until it checks out – like the one in Fremont, you know, where the “victim” was actually lying. All you may be doing is scaring some people into staying in their homes and not using the parks. Go jogging and bring a cell phone, or another person, or your dog!
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Hey, WestSide45… are you like me and STILL watch Seinfeld episodes? :-)
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Kudos to Tim for the plug on the pepper spray! And how cool is it that they have a FREE running club?! Awesome, guys. I will be visiting your store soon to buy new shoes.

WSB February 2, 2011 (9:54 pm)

Funny thing about the Fremont hoax, since people bring it up.
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That one was actually announced by the police in the first place – they felt certain enough to run with it. And if you’re not familiar with SPDBlotter, they do not use it to announce any and every crime of note. Some days, there may be no new posts at all.
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http://spdblotter.seattle.gov/2011/01/31/woman-assaulted-in-fremont-early-saturday-morning/
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then
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http://spdblotter.seattle.gov/2011/02/01/update-to-fremont-assault-investigation/
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So “waiting for a police announcement” doesn’t immunize anyone.

sayWA? February 2, 2011 (9:54 pm)

My motto is, and always has been:
Fight crime.
Shoot back.
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As noted above, DO get training, and PRACTICE, with your weapon of choice, if you choose to carry a weapon.
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If you do not feel comfortable with a weapon – be it pepper spray, a knife, stun gun, or real gun – DO NOT CARRY.
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In reading the charging documents on my old classmate Eddie Starkenburg, the victim did something that anyone can do, she took her keys, and held them with one key each wedged between her fingers, in a fist, ready to gouge if needed.
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Really, I jest (in part) with the fight crime shoot back thing. But we should never let fear rule, or those who use fear WILL rule.
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On a serious note, if we get and/or act scared, several things happen:
1) We LOSE
2) We become ready victims
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I grew up in Linclon Park (figuratively speaking), and truthfully I would walk through there at ANY time, day or night. Granted, I do carry a legally concealed weapon and am well practiced with it, but I have been in that park at night with no weapon.
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It is our home, we should treat it as such (like NOT peeing on the carpet!) and more than anything, ENJOY what we have.
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We The People own this park,
not “them the creeps”.

datamuse February 2, 2011 (9:54 pm)

Adam, the guy’s not on trial. The West Seattle Blog is not a court of law and nobody is being punished. Self-righteousness is uncalled for here.
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And in my experience, if the alarm bells of someone’s intuition ring when they encounter someone who creeps them out, there’s usually a reason. Personally I’d rather be safe than dead. Your mileage may vary.

smw February 2, 2011 (9:55 pm)

Hmmm..men don’t have hips like us women, it would be easy to “guess” that a skinny guy with no butt might have a 29″ waist. I appreciate all of the details, and will be more alert on my evening runs.

NotMe February 2, 2011 (10:05 pm)

Well, that’s why I was “somewhat” on the disagreeing part. You have a good point. And it is good to know what’s happening WHEN it’s happening… so I recant that one. You convinced me and you have my ok to go back to how you like to do it. :-)
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Another thought… how in the heck did she see the pant size? Even if you are walking slow, that’s pretty hard to see. 29 vs 28? yeah, that’s a tough one to distinguish on a pair of Levi’s. Must have been a brand new pair, right? What was the inseam number? Did the police ask if it was a new pair or an old pair? Did they ask if she had heard about the story in Fremont?

(required) February 2, 2011 (10:21 pm)

Kudos, as usual, to our beloved WSB, for your singular sensitivity, professionalism, and concern for our community. Thankfully the story has brought the issue of being safe to everyone’s minds once again. As for the woman’s candid admission about peeing in public, um, maybe people ought to think long and hard before they do that? Especially with creeps in the bushes?

adam February 2, 2011 (10:27 pm)

Point taken, datamuse, and well said. No he’s not on trial, but he *is* being judged, and summarily. My point is though, that the justice system as it functions is similarly infused and pervaded by just this bias that we see operating here. Now there may be good reasons for that, in the sense of balancing past injustice, but the bias is real nonetheless. In a case like this, regretfully I feel a need to try to point it out. I apologize if doing so offends.

ad February 2, 2011 (10:29 pm)

Adam,

As a woman, I have learned to *not* ignore my intuition. It is usually correct.

Steve M. February 2, 2011 (10:51 pm)

Wouldn’t it have been funny if the “creep” had reported this woman for indecent exposure.

The police report this woman filed probably read “man seen walking in park”.

happychinesenewyear February 2, 2011 (11:43 pm)

Thanks for a good laugh tonight WS the waist comments had me laughing very hard… “foraging for berries!” LOL! Keep it real WS!

Wendy Hughes-Jelen February 3, 2011 (1:27 am)

a little off topic but in response to Nervous Nelly – that’s why I can’t go to Lincoln Park at all. I have a small dog, completely not scary in her pink jacket, and I am sick of all of the off leash dogs rushing up to us, freaking me out and I have to grab her up and hold her out of their reach while they jump up trying to get to her. People who are irresponsible enough to have their dogs off leash and knowingly break the law are also irresponsible enough to have dogs improoperly socialized and actually dangerous enough to attack my dog or even me. For years I have just been boggled by otherwise very intelligent people I actully personally KNOW who go to this park and also Schmitz and Fauntleroy parks, and just let them loose. THe dog and the person won’t even be within shouting distance of each other. It pisses me off really because I love the woods but I just don’t feel safe, Forget about creepy guys wanting to jump me, just your average dog owner and their off leash canine is just as dangerous. It’s the LAW, not an advisory statement. But this is an age old problem and it will never be fixed. Which also makes me mad.

Sue Irvin February 3, 2011 (6:49 am)

This is a well written report, thanks for posting. It’s a great reminder to watch for creeps in our neighborhood parks.

knm February 3, 2011 (8:02 am)

A friend and I were at LP running in the dark early this morning. We encountered a woman running by herself and politely commented that she should be running with a friend. She seemed irritated that we would mention such a thing and she commented she could handle it.

People, please be smart.

JH February 3, 2011 (8:04 am)

This story is bizarre. Just saying.

Wednesday February 3, 2011 (8:27 am)

You know, making the off-leash dog park at Westcrest was put there in part to discourage the perv’s from using the woods there (outside the offleash area) for their “hookups”, and I think it was quite effective. Why not Lincoln? Wouldn’t dog’s running freely in the wooded areas be a deterrent for these creeps? And come on, what would it harm??

Rob February 3, 2011 (8:28 am)

We need more helicopters. They can be used to patrol the park.

JimmyG February 3, 2011 (8:31 am)

1.Dude committed no crime.
2.Parts of this story don’t ring true.
3.Just using a little bit of statement analysis reveals some red flags.
4.To anyone pissing in the parks, just stop it.

chicago February 3, 2011 (8:38 am)

Thankyou Lensar for your comments.

mo February 3, 2011 (8:44 am)

Two simple comments: (1) the “Fremont hoax” may not have involved an attack as originally reported, but it did involve STALKING, which is a criminal offense. (2) Public bathrooms are not safe houses. Just saying.

Tommycat February 3, 2011 (8:57 am)

NotMe wrote: “… how in the heck did she see the pant size? … 29 vs 28? … a tough one to distinguish on a pair of Levi’s.”

Well, NotMe, if had read the report a little more closely before posting your opinion, you would have seen that the stalker was wearing “light grey sweat pants,” not Levi’s.

And the point is not that the waist size was actually 29″ but rather that the waist size was VERY narrow.

To me, the strange part of this story is the obsession the commenters have with waist size.

AJP February 3, 2011 (8:58 am)

As to the “attractiveness” issue–people often imagine that creeps are ugly guys but that isn’t always the case. I was in a small, well-off suburb of Rotterdam one summer day and a guy on a bicycle grabbed my breast. I was walking with a friend and we were talking and not paying close attention as we walked down a residential street. He came up behind us on the bicycle making absolutely no noise, I heard the click of bicycle chain and by the time I thought it sounded abnormally close he reached out, grabbed my boob, and took off pedaling nonchalantly like nothing had happened. I was yelling in the street but no one came out to see what happened.

He was in his early 20s, seemingly attractive, dressed well for a guy that age, riding a decent bike. No one would suspect him. I was so shocked I didn’t call the police (though I should have).

Predators like this have that element of shock and surprise on their side. By the time you figure out what’s happening, they’ve either gotten you, or they’re long gone.

lucky chick February 3, 2011 (9:01 am)

Jeez, are [some of] you really attacking the woman for her story?! THANK YOU for sharing the details of this – I completely believe that could read ill intent from this guy’s actions, and I thank you for being brave enough to expose yourself to the more judgmental of the responses.
Please continue to use this blog.
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I’ve been run off the blog because I’ve felt judged (usually in that passive-aggressive, somewhat self-righteous Seattle way) for the most innocuous of comments. I wish people would consider whether they are contributing to the conversation or simply getting on the only soapbox they have in their lives.
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Just sayin’.

seattlecris February 3, 2011 (11:27 am)

Gonna miss relaxing in Lincoln Park.

datamuse February 3, 2011 (11:32 am)

knm, maybe she COULD handle it. You know? Running with a friend is one way to be safer, sure, but there are other precautions one can take as well. Personally I prefer to run alone. I’ve assessed the risks of doing so and am comfortable with them.

Wednesday: the woods at Westcrest aren’t actually part of the off leash area. Having the dog park has increased park use, though, which is good. (The downside for me is that I don’t run in the woods anymore due to encountering off leash dogs, which tend to react badly to a running person…but that’s a separate issue.)

MB February 3, 2011 (11:34 am)

Totally agree, Lucky Chick.

West Seattle Art Attack February 3, 2011 (1:42 pm)

I like the use of the term “expose yourself,” Lucky Chick. . . . .

Tony February 3, 2011 (2:08 pm)

Peeing in the woods, sometimes women just gotta go. That’s why skirts were invented.

AML February 3, 2011 (2:22 pm)

I don’t think I would be peeing in the woods in Lincoln Park or any park for that matter. I find that very odd & would put that woman in a very awkward state- if that man were to come up behind her. If she was so frightened- why didn’t she turn around and walk the other way?

Neighbor February 3, 2011 (4:25 pm)

I live on Lincoln park, literally on the dead end next to the park and really appreciate two this about this post. 1. her diligence in reporting this incident (and that of the blog following up) and 2. the comments it has brought up about off leash dogs.

Put your dogs on a freaking leash!! I am absolutely fed up with your dogs running into my yard, trampling my herb garden, running on my porch and just last week stealing my sandal from my porch.

It is not an off leash park. Not a difficult concept. As the owner you have a responsibility to your pet. Treat them well. Leash them up so that they don’t get themselves in trouble. Your dog might be “super friendly” but mine is not and she will bite your dog because she is not socialized yet.

BH February 3, 2011 (11:40 pm)

Yes this is off topic but THANK YOU to those who brought up the off leash dogs. When some huge mutt is lunging toward my three year old (in the CHILDREN’S play area) it may as well be a speeding bus. I have no idea what that dog will do when it gets to my kid. That forces me to ‘helicopter’ so I can quickly pick her up if I need to. PUT YOUR DOGS ON A LEASH. I will do WHATEVER IS NECESSARY to protect my daughter.

I think an off-leash portion of the park (fenced of course) would be FABULOUS!

As for the peeing in the park – when you have to go badly enough you can’t think about anything else. AND yes, the bathrooms are locked and if they’re open they’re creepy and dirty. No judgment from me to her on that – and thanks to her for sharing her story. I’ll bet the ratio of dog pee to human pee in that park is 10,000 to 1 at the least. I wonder how many people complaining about her peeing in the park have dogs that pee there?