40 Replies to "Week and a half left to comment on new zoning plans. Morgan Community Association briefing Thursday"

• Darren December 9, 2024 (9:18 pm)

  I appreciate that the blog continues to advertise these meetings. However there is a huge swathe of community who don’t read the blog ( go figure)im Disappointed that the city is not sending out post cards to those in the most impacted directed areas,  lack of transparency is not a great lookfor some more than others the proposed changes are significant 

  • WSB December 9, 2024 (9:36 pm)

    I don’t know about a “huge” swath but certainly even with tens of thousands of readers, that leaves tens of thousands of non-readers. Anyway, just to be clear, this is a NON-official meeting and Deb from MoCA has been running around with posters and other things to try to publicize this. The official meetings were earlier in the fall … we went downtown for the official briefing at City Hall:
    https://westseattleblog.com/2024/10/ten-neighborhood-centers-proposed-for-west-seattle-and-other-changes-in-newly-unveiled-zoning-maps/
    then in November we covered the one public meeting in West Seattle (no presentation, just “wander the easels”) with advance word and then a “happening now” the night it was held at Madison MS:
    https://westseattleblog.com/2024/11/happening-now-west-seattles-info-session-about-proposed-rezoning/

  • Wallflower December 11, 2024 (10:49 am)

    They did that.  I live south of Morgan Junction, by Gatewood Elementary, and I had a flyer taped to my door yesterday.

    • WSB December 11, 2024 (10:57 am)

      Just to be sure everyone is clear: This is NOT a city meeting, there are no city reps involved, and if you got a flyer, it was from community members, NOT the city. There will be lots of info including how to comment to the city before the 12/20 deadline – and as mentioned, organizers have worked with the city to get official maps and other background info – but it is NOT a city meeting. The one in-person city meeting re: the rezoning in West Seattle was weeks ago (coverage linked in our story above).

• Niko December 10, 2024 (3:59 am)

  This upzoning nonsense needs to stop! It’s not creating anything more affordable and it’s destroying West Seattle

  • Scott December 10, 2024 (8:50 am)

    Agreed 100%

  • k December 10, 2024 (9:52 am)

    Disagree completely.  What makes Seattle unaffordable is attitudes like this one, saying “I’ve got mine, screw the rest of you” so there’s always high demand for properties.  West Seattle survived your arrival, and the development that allowed you to have a place to live, it will survive the next generation of people and housing that are added.

  • Sam December 10, 2024 (11:23 am)

    No, upzoning is definitely improving West Seattle. I will continue to voice my support.

    • Day Tripper December 11, 2024 (12:00 pm)

      I have lived in west Seattle for 26 years and love this place. However, as the quality of life gradually begins to deteriorate, it will be time to leave Seattle. 

  • Fairtoall? December 10, 2024 (11:43 am)

    @ Niko and Scott,
    A long standing and predictable complaint about adding new housing that has created the housing crisis and ever increasing property taxes as well as permanent lack of affordable housing for most Seattleites.  
    Yes, we got ours, but no one else should get theirs!  
    Do you have any suggestions for addressing the growing inequities for those without and selfishness of those of us with?

    Increasing supply of housing will ease the problem, but simple repeating that increasing housing will not make anything affordable, is akin to burying our heads in the sand.  

    Rote complaining is easy, but I ask, what would you suggest to address the housing crisis? 

    • Scott December 10, 2024 (12:29 pm)

      My suggestion is to build somewhere else. Don’t make things worse for the people that already live in an area. Most the new buildings don’t have parking and that causes issue. That is not the only issue but it is one.

      • Chris December 10, 2024 (12:50 pm)

        It’s nice seeing raw, uncut NIMBYism just spelled out and stated plainly. Appreciate your candidness

      • k December 10, 2024 (1:06 pm)

        So you’re okay with new housing, just not in your back yard.  Got it.  The parking situation would not be an issue for you if you had made better choices with your own housing.  You don’t own the street in front of your home, and you’re not entitled to taxpayer-funded parking on a public right-of-way.  Sorry, but it’s not everyone else’s job to support your chosen lifestyle.

      • Bbron December 10, 2024 (3:56 pm)

        Scott, why does the availability of off road parking matter to you? do you not have off street parking of your own? and with it so full, you won’t have to worry about outsiders driving in and bothering you!    

  • Derek December 10, 2024 (4:59 pm)

    No we need upzoning without parking as far as the eye can see. Otherwise stop complaining about homeless  corner stores and shops at street level

• Platypus December 10, 2024 (10:09 am)

  This upzoning is great! I want to be able to walk to more restaurants, fun shops, and increase housing stalk. This is exactly the changes I want to see in my community.

• cbiscuit December 10, 2024 (10:38 am)

  I love seeing Morgan Junction more lively with people and businesses. I fully support the upzoning and the new Urban Center title. 

• Jay December 10, 2024 (2:52 pm)

  It’s depressing to see older people with unlimited free time and energy lobbying against young people, families, and the future of West Seattle. NIMBYs are driving me insane. But while they are out at public meetings arguing against good policies, I’m either working or taking care of my infant daughter. I get where their anger is coming from – they have a lot of privilege from the wealth and housing opportunities afforded by historically protected zoning and redlining and they are paranoid about “others” moving in and changing their quiet WASPy neighborhoods. But it’s time to let go and let society move forward. At least try to take a break from the anger and hate that clouds your ability to consider other people’s perspectives.

  • km December 10, 2024 (3:52 pm)

    Well said, Jay. Very well said.

  • Jim December 10, 2024 (9:46 pm)

    I understand your frustration, but your take oversimplifies and misrepresents the concerns of longtime residents in West Seattle. Labeling us as angry, privileged, or hateful ignores the real issues at stake and reduces a nuanced conversation to unfair stereotypes. Let’s clear up a few things.First, this isn’t about clinging to the past or blocking progress. It’s about ensuring that changes to our community are thoughtful and responsible. When you tear down houses and trees to build expensive, market-rate apartments under the guise of “affordable housing,” who actually benefits? Not young families like yours. Not low-income residents. Developers and investors walk away with the profits while everyone else deals with overcrowded streets, strained infrastructure, and skyrocketing costs. Opposing poorly planned development isn’t selfish—it’s common sense.Second, you mention historical zoning and redlining, but blaming current residents for systemic inequities oversimplifies a complex problem. Many of us are advocating for policies that genuinely address affordability and equity, not ones that allow developers to pay token fines to avoid including low-income housing. The rezoning you’re supporting doesn’t guarantee affordable homes; it guarantees higher profits for developers at the expense of livability for everyone else.Third, let’s address the accusation of being “paranoid” about others moving in. That’s not only untrue but unfair. This community is already diverse and welcoming. What we’re pushing back against is the destruction of what makes West Seattle livable—the views, the trees, the open spaces—without ensuring these changes actually benefit people who need it. Growth is fine, but it has to come with proper infrastructure, public safety measures, and meaningful housing solutions, not just lip service to affordability.Lastly, your assumption that older residents are sitting around with “unlimited free time” to protest out of some misplaced privilege is dismissive. Many of us are still working, raising families, or contributing to the community in countless ways. Speaking up at public meetings or writing letters isn’t a hobby—it’s a duty to protect a place we love and ensure it evolves in a way that works for everyone, including the next generation.Before dismissing us as NIMBYs or lumping us into some caricature of privilege, take a step back. We’re fighting for a West Seattle that works—for you, your daughter, and the generations to come. If you want to see real progress, don’t support policies that prioritize profits over people. And don’t expect us to sit quietly while shortsighted plans threaten to irreversibly harm this community.

    • Duster December 11, 2024 (12:44 am)

      With over 20 years in West Seattle, this pretty much nails it. 100%
      

      It’s amazing to me, the level of vitriol we’ve reached these days. You can’t even have a meeting to learn and talk about a proposed change without it being attacked as immediately NIMBY. Whatever you do, don’t ask any questions of our zoning and transportation overlords. Apostate!

      I love how West Seattle has evolved, and continues to. But more and more it feels like anyone over the age of 40 who says anything remotely questioning the methodology for how we’re increasing density is immediately cast as being part of some deep conspiracy to bring back Video Update (though I’m tempted to do that just for the entertainment value). Yet it’s the community engagement like this that got us the development that happened on the old Huling Bros lots rather than another Jefferson Square. Seems like the kids don’t understand that; they didn’t experience it, so it has no value, it’s just ancient Gen Xs with flip phones.

      So thanks for your comment, though I worry it may be too long for many of these folks.

    • Oh Seattle December 11, 2024 (8:00 am)

      PNW urbanists think that developers are their friends the same way poor Southerners think billionaires are their friends.

    • Tracey December 11, 2024 (8:15 am)

      Thanks Jim.  I get offers every day from developers to buy my 670 sq ft war time bungalow.  They are willing to pay me $525,000 to tear it down and build 3 units.  The cheapest unit will sell for $700,000.  I really want my house to stay a starter home like it was for me and my dog 19 years ago.  It is worth $550,000 with its older kitchen/flooring, etc. or $585,000-610,000 or so if I put some updates in.  This is according to my realtor not me.   It has a nice yard for pets/kids to play.  Put 3 houses on that lot and you are effectively buying a condo with no storage or yard and will pay more.  How is this solving anything?  I am a Gen Xer and AM thinking of the next person to buy my home not myself.  You don’t think my easiest path forward would be to take the $525,000 and run all while not paying real estate commissions or dealing with contractors?  Attempting to preserve some quality of life for future generations. 

      • JustSarah December 13, 2024 (8:25 am)

        So you’ll still sell your house for $600k when the value increases to $800k, $1M, or more because you believe preserving “neighborhood character” is more important than providing enough housing to meet the demand, right? 

• Steph December 10, 2024 (8:58 pm)

  I’ve finally been out and about after a very long time being mostly at home. I’ve been north to the city limits, east to east Auburn, South to the Enumclaw area and even Tacoma/ DuPont. I was horrified. Terrible big boxes of six story apartments right up to the streets , blocking the sunlight, cheaply made with no style. I remember when our Mayor, the architect, kept that from happening. It appears New York developers have bought our fair city/counties and are hell bent on turning it all into a replica of their own overcrowded slums. I’ve seen hundreds of thousands of new (atrocious) units, yet we still don’t have affordable housing. We still have the worst homeless situation. The only decent place I ventured was the farmland in East Auburn. I also saw some of the most beautiful tree lined streets. Driving north on 35th NE from 110th to 125th was like being immersed in an impressionist painting with the leaves turning the most gorgeous colors. Yet the citizens there are fighting a losing battle to keep them. They are being cut down right and left. I feel our local world is becoming like the end scenes of Dr. Zhivago, grey, overcast, crowded, dirty……yet the people forcing this on us don’t live like this. They’re in their mansions, yachts, islands while we are crowded together like rats. And the streets are worse! Roads that had reasonable 50 mph limits are now all 25. They have to be because they’ve been reduced to single lanes with all sorts of curbs, bollards. and instructions. We’ll never be able to evacuate when there’s an earthquake or Cascadia, or a bombing. 

  • Jon December 11, 2024 (1:01 am)

    “We’ll never be able to evacuate when there’s an earthquake or Cascadia, or a bombing”

    A bombing? Where do you think we live?

    • JustSarah December 13, 2024 (8:27 am)

      I’m confused by why we’d need to evacuate when there’s Cascadia. That’s like saying we’ll have to evacuate when there’s Washington. Cascadia is a conceptual geopolitical region, not a natural disaster. 

• Steph December 10, 2024 (9:05 pm)

  Obstructions. Blasted internet won’t even let your words be your own. Writing our posts for us whether we want it or not….

• Tami Schendel December 11, 2024 (8:19 am)

  JAY your name callingNIMBY here. I moved to WS 37 years ago, only place in Seattle we could afford.  Interest rates were 10% and our $100,000 1929 lead pipe dump house was 35% of our income.  It took 20 years to remodel.  High Point was known for gangs and highest shootings in the city.  Massive rule changes to development have occurred not all bad. We raised our kids on a lot less than you do.  Goodwill,  No starbucks or dinners out.  Yet we volunteered 5-10 hours per week in the public schools so everyone benefited.  We always juggled 3 -4  money making jobs to pay the bills- We coach teams as our kids grew, made our community, watched out, and met the neighbor kids. We also helped clear massive ivy from Mee Kwa Mooks-we still help plant and pull blackberries from green space.  We still feed the homeless.  We taught our kids to do the same.  We WORKED to be “middle class-lived pay ck to pay ck.  We love West Seattle.  You move here and call me a NIMBY-at one time we were you small kids and broke, we didn’t name call and complain we worked.On 42nd I watched developers pull out a 100 year old willow to put in 3 condos I remember an old guy annoyingly complaining- he was RIGHT to this day water pours down that driveway the street pools up during a rainstorm we NEED  trees to deal with runoff. The developer didn’t put in rain gardens  “Pave paradise put up a parking lot”. Take the $$$ In 2012 North Seattle had so much development that it took 1.3 billion dollars to tunnel brightwater sewer line.  Taxpayers are still paying for that. That’s why your sewer bill is so high.  Poor city planning wastes money —not managing water runoff actually killed a woman in her basement and cost the city millions-all due to development.  With this giant FORCED UP ZONE-developers make huge sums off of 1 lot.  No low income here.  The lower part of steep Gatewood has 105 trees (each is 30-130 years old)plus plants yet water still pools at the bottom.  Allowing 4 houses and taking down plantings on every lot will increase runoff – with 3 houses strategically placed there is room for rain gardens.  Making my house a 4 story apartment or condo situation lot line to lot line is Not low or affordable housing.  My garden is water runoff, and home to bees and bird conventions.  When I walk the neighborhood I love to look at the gardens.  So do my neighbors.  That is how community happens.  I hope your generation looks out for your 80 year old neighbors like we did.Call me a NIMBY, but development in an established city needs to be done like a surgery with planning.  Not clear cut andwasting $.  We need to fight this.  The ONE bridge broke because heavy buses- it has a 40 year life.  Add more people you need another bridge. The city is Down 500 police- NO emergency response-FIX INFRASTRUCTURE before massive development. Please Complain this is plan was NOT GOOD for the community .  Please write legislatures, city council and the planner.  We DO NOT need WS to be Capital Hill.  EMAILS work we need to send Saka 10,000 complaints.  Keep WS livable. 

  • Jim December 11, 2024 (9:30 am)

    Well said Tami. Thank you.

  • Fairtoall December 11, 2024 (9:45 am)

    That is some factually challenged rant!

    The Brightwater and other sewage infrastructure was not caused by increased population.  
    If you were around back in the day, Lake Washington was too polluted to swim, large raw sewage pipes discharged directly into Puget Sound North of the Fauntleroy Ferry Dock (we kept a dingy chained to the dock pilings and waded through toilet paper to launch it).
     In all of the old homes like Tami Schendel’s  (and ours) the sewer and gutter downspouts ran into a combined sewer (no storm drains).  
    The combined sewers continued to be overwhelmed by storm events into Puget Sound and the Federal Government fines Seattle for each overflow event. 

    The West Seattle Bridge was not compromised by the weight of buses  (we had planned to put the monorail on it)!  
    A 2014 published study speculated that bridge cracking was caused by the 2001 Nisqually Earthquake.  The cracking apparently led to unanticipated stretching of support cables.  
    History Link has the info.

    Taking care of 80 year old neighbors remaining in their hundred year old homes is what I did for my Fauntleroy parents and my Gatewood neighbors.  
    I realized the burden this causes on affordability for the generations that follow and downsized into an appropriate size apartment.
    I realized the old concerns so openly expressed could not be addressed by the NIMBYism of my generation and embraced the inevitable change that has brought new life to the sleepy depressed outpost of the  70s and 80s when very few options for dining were supported by the post war community.

    Again, I would appreciate any positive suggestions for addressing our housing crisis. 

    • Jim December 11, 2024 (10:33 am)

      You are citing a 2014 study in regards to the bridge failure in 2020, and you are calling Tami s response “factually challenged”? Here are the facts taken from the good old internet: The 2020 study commissioned by the Seattle Department of Transportation (SDOT) identified the main reasons for the failure of the West Seattle Bridge as follows:1. Design Flaws: The original 1980s design had inherent vulnerabilities that made the bridge more susceptible to cracking and stress over time.2. Increased Traffic Loads: The bridge carried more and heavier vehicles than originally intended, which exacerbated stress on its post-tensioning system.3. Post-Tensioning System Limitations: Insufficient post-tensioning in key areas led to an inability to effectively handle the increasing loads over decades.4. Material Aging: The natural degradation of materials like concrete and steel over time weakened the bridge’s structural integrity.5. Thermal Expansion and Contraction: Daily temperature fluctuations caused expansion and contraction of the bridge materials, accelerating stress and wear.6. Seismic Impact (Secondary): The 2001 Nisqually earthquake may have contributed to long-term wear, though it was not the immediate cause of failure.

• Alex December 11, 2024 (11:38 am)

  Read the maps for the One Seattle Plan.   Hundreds of blocks with single family homes across the City and that includes West Seattle are being proposed for rezoning as 5 story apartment buildings.  The Mayor is proud of this plan  but he is doing it on the backs of the people who currently own these properties and pay thousands in property taxes.   It is shocking to me the vitriol expressed towards the property owners.   I have been here since 1985 and an under 40 year old told me yesterday it was their turn to live here.   I’m not dead yet!

  • Platypus December 12, 2024 (3:40 pm)

    I think we all need to step back and remember, no one is kicking you out. I am also a property own and my street will now allow a 5 story unit. I do not plan to sell any time soon, and no one can make me (or you) as this plan is not eminent domain, it simply allows for the construction to happen, but does not require it. As an example the building being built at 35th and Holden is a good example. It was already zoned for it, the buildings there are not in great shape, and we need the housing. A lot more people will get housing, the neighborhood will get some great new shops. Its a win win. No one kicked out the businesses, they sold of their own free will when they wanted and someone saw the opportunity to build.

• Fairtoall December 11, 2024 (11:49 am)

  Appreciate your full discourse on all of the issues of the bridge failure, Jim.  
  I reference History Link.  
  My statement was accurate and confirmed by your comments.

  Tami’s response that is factually inaccurate, is the claim-

  “The ONE bridge broke because heavy busses.”  

  SDOT’s causes you list make no mention of  busses nor does your comment address busses as the cause.

  • Jim December 11, 2024 (12:44 pm)

    That’s great you can stand by your 10-year-old study. See #2 cause given. I think the”more and heavier vehicles than originally intended” includes not only heavy buses, but the overall increased weight that the bridge handles. Your claim of the earthquake being the main cause is contradicted by the 2020 study as it states it was  a contributing secondary cause.

• Fairtoall December 11, 2024 (4:55 pm)

  Jim, I appreciate the tenacity of your belief, but please read  my comments?

  Let me quote myself,
  “A 2014 published study speculated that bridge cracking was caused by the Nisqually Earthquake.  The cracking apparently led to unanticipated stretching of support cables.”

  I never made the claim that the earthquake or anything  specific was the main cause.  
  Your first comment rightly  tallied the multiplicity of causes.
  Despite your recent post’s creative correlation, busses were never mentioned.   

  • Jim December 11, 2024 (7:46 pm)

    Mr Fair? Creative Correlation?The 2020 study and subsequent analyses did in fact highlight that heavy vehicle loads, including transit buses, were a significant factor contributing to the stress on the West Seattle Bridge. Specifically, buses and other heavy vehicles like freight trucks were identified as a major source of the increased loads that exceeded what the bridge was originally designed to handle.The bridge was a key transit corridor, carrying substantial bus traffic as part of its daily operations. While these buses provided essential services, their cumulative weight and frequency added to the long-term stresses on the bridge’s structure, particularly its post-tensioning system.In response to these findings, after the closure, the city rerouted transit buses and other heavy vehicles to alternative routes to reduce stress on the bridge during the stabilization and repair phases. This shift was a critical step in preventing further damage while long-term solutions were being developed.

• Scarlett December 12, 2024 (10:53 am)

  I’ll leave the NIMBY characterizations to others, but the “sky is falling” opposition to increased density is following the same predictable playbook as other towns I’ve lived in , including the  protestations – some of it concern trolling – about the unaffordability of new units. Then there are the usual complaints about lack of  infrastructure  which here means apocalpytic scenario’s of WS sliding off into Puget Sound or people drowning in their basement  from rain runoff, all that I have yet to hear about despite ample development already.  Oh, except for a neighbor who tells me that slides have always been a part of living in WS because the topsoil sits on top of a bedrock of hard – slippery – clay.   Transportation infrastructure?  I suspect that a neighborhood with more amenities, more jobs, more reasons to stay in West Seattle, the less likely many of these new people will feel the need to leave, either by car or bus transit.  Sure, you can petition the state to restrict the availibity of housing for others but I’d first look in the mirror to make sure you are being honest with yourselves. 

• Iz December 13, 2024 (11:59 am)

     I bought my first home 1983. The interest rate was 13 percent interest I payed $1000.00 dollars a month and it was condemed! It took me 13 yrs to restore this 1200 sq. ft house due to time and money with no experience….. I sold my vehicle for the down payment. There are sacrifices we  have to make for ownership and now what I’m hearing that others feel it’s unfair that we would want to preserve our neighborhoods. I’m  a retired contractor that served West Seattle for 35yrs.to mostly 30 to 40 yr olds starting a new families. If you think fo one minute that’s rent’s well go dow You been lied too! Let’s but it this way, Show me other communites simular to West Seattle that the rent went down and I’ll believe You!  

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