West Seattle Blog… | Reader report: Robbery at Freshy’s

jim y. February 5, 2008 (6:45 pm)

We live in a big city.
please be AWARE!!!
I’ll be proactive if I’m there.

Jan February 5, 2008 (6:51 pm)

I say cruise the parking lot at the school tomorrow….I wouldn’t doubt that red car will be parked there, and that these “young men” will be in classes…or cutting classes…

JimmyG February 5, 2008 (7:05 pm)

Everyone should practice situational awareness at all times, I’m sorry to hear the victim was injured but glad to hear she gave chase.

Shame on anyone in Freshy’s of sound body that didn’t try to go out the door with her and help catch those criminals.

Alvis February 5, 2008 (7:09 pm)

“Three young African-American men” is a useless description unless the aim is simply to smear all who fit that profile. How about some particular details? Say, for instance, their heights or builds or distinctive clothing? How about the make of the conveniently generic red car?

Sorry, without more details, I say the story’s a fabrication.

sam February 5, 2008 (7:14 pm)

Actually, it may already be a trend as it happened last night too. We witnessed a poor guy’s laptop being stolen at Cupcake Royale (corner of Calif. and Alaska).

We didn’t see the whole thing. But, we left Super Sup. just as ALL WALK signal changed. Walking towards cupcake royale, a guy came running out (the laptop thief). we thought we was just trying to make the light until we saw the guy with the laptop frantically trying to figure out if he could chase the thief, and then he ended up staying put and calling police.

we had left C.R. about 10 min. before this happened. when we left there were 3 teens hanging around outside the door. I had to squeeze by them to get to the corner. At the time, I felt that one of them was looking too curiously to the bag i was carrying, but at that point, I thought maybe I was just stereotyping the loitering teens.

not sure if the loitering teens were the ones that ended up stealing the guys laptop from C.R. but it sounds like it could have been similar set-up to the incident at Freshy’s.

The thief disappeared down the alley behind easy street- we went to look for him in our car (not sure what we would have done if we found him- follow?), but didn’t see him.

this all happened around 8:15 pm.

JanS February 5, 2008 (7:16 pm)

hello, alvis…witnesses, police involved, so I doubt a fabrication…and the 3 perpetrators, if they were indeed african-american, need to be described that way.And if they had been caucasion, that would have been part of their description, too. Needless to say, they moved very quickly, and perhaps, since it’s dark outside after 6pm, a better description of the car wasn’t possible…nor of their clothing, or the color of their eyes…

WSB February 5, 2008 (7:18 pm)

There was an aid call to that location at that time, and I am checking with the SW Precinct, though my afterhours contact info is still a work in progress. Also, the person who reported it is a reliable previous participant. We don’t just post any old thing that lands in the inbox. Now, regarding the race description … I was the style-guide creator/keeper/policymaker in my previous newsrooms. For much of that time, I evangelized a very strict rule that without additional describing factors, we would not mention the race of anyone involved. But upon further reflection – and I am very interested in people’s takes on this – withholding any amount of describing information, no matter how sketchy, is withholding information from the community. Many news organizations around the country have had a similar debate recently. Here at WSB, we provide more information, in a raw form — reported by citizens, reported by us (I am a 25-year news-media veteran), gathered from sources including everything from the Web to driving down the street and seeing something — and while I considered editing out that part of Michael’s report, it did not feel right. Thoughts, anyone and everyone?

sam February 5, 2008 (7:25 pm)

regarding WSB’s question- sometimes it is just a matter of describing the person (he’s tall, he’s a little overweight) to look out for, but when race is mention -that can also lead to stereotyping. However, as hard as it is to say, I don’t think it should be left out.

in my comment, I didn’t identify any characteristics of the “loitering teens” cause I was away from cupcake royale and only saw the thief from behind as he was running away, so I don’t know for sure it it was one of the 3 teens.

JimmyG February 5, 2008 (7:33 pm)

Race is an important descriptor in situations such as this.

It can exonerate as easily as it can implicate.

JIggers February 5, 2008 (7:41 pm)

Where’s Al Sharpton when you need him?

Bonnie February 5, 2008 (7:44 pm)

I think stating the race is important because it’s something that identifies the person.

JanS February 5, 2008 (7:46 pm)

and, frankly, perhaps the police have further identifying things that we haven’t been told, found out as they investigated. If that’s the case, and that information is let out, then you might consider taking out the first description…just an opinion…:)

I Heart Jiggers February 5, 2008 (7:53 pm)

Oh, for the LOVE. And the three teens throwing rocks at cars, you recall? Two caucasian, one presumed Hispanic… Really, it was one kinda pinkish, one pale orange with tan spots, and one kind of a mocha-latte beige.

Criminals, causing harm. Just look out and, perhaps, let’s work together to keep our community as safe as we can.

TheHouse February 5, 2008 (7:57 pm)

Wow, I Wish I could have helped. I had just stopped by Metropolitan Market and turned onto Admiral when I saw 3 officers looking around as if a crime was committed.

As someone who works from many different coffee shops in WS, this would really suck. If the thief is reading this, I invite you to grab my laptop. You will be caught and remember that it’s going to take the police approx 8 minutes to respond. Plenty of time to inflict pain.

Trick February 5, 2008 (8:00 pm)

I agree with the description as well, although I find it careless that no other details were submitted like clothing, height and weight as well. They obviously were seen and spoken to.
The more info, the more we can narrow these people down with prudence.

islewrite February 5, 2008 (8:02 pm)

If you have a newer laptop, it likely has a lock port. For about $24 you can get a good computer lock with chain that you can loop around table legs or even more immovable objects. At least it can slow a perp down, if not deter them entirely. I got mine at Staples.

acemotel February 5, 2008 (8:12 pm)

well, what about the sex? is it necessary to know these were men? I would think the basic primary identifiers: sex, age, race, hair color, height, stature, are all relevant. This is 2008, fer cryin’ out loud, not 1958. We should be evolved enough at this point to be able to mention race and sex without people crying “racist” or “sexist.” We are still afraid to mention the obvious.

Lynne February 5, 2008 (8:19 pm)

Alvis:
I absolutely agree with you. As soon as race is used as an immediate identifier when whites as well as blacks commit crimes, I’ll have no problem with it.
I have noticed in the past that in local television news reports race wasn’t mentioned when describing perpetrators if they were white. Arrogant and typical. Especially in West Seattle where people are so often divided by race, geography and socioeconomic status.
JimmyG, I know from personal experience that it is unwise to pursue a criminal in a situation such as the one described. Is a laptop worth your life? I don’t think so.

Michael February 5, 2008 (8:26 pm)

Alvis — Michael (the reporter) here. I’m sorry I couldn’t provide a better description, but I didn’t look up from my own laptop until I heard the woman scream. I saw the blurry figures of the two guys dashing out the door, and I saw the third guy standing there. I didn’t get a very good look at the third fellow, because I was rapidly packing up my own stuff so he wouldn’t grab it. I can tell you that he was fairly tall (perhaps a little more than 6′), big build. Nothing so distinctive about his clothing that it sticks in my mind.

I’m sorry you think my saying “Three young African American men” is an attempt to smear those who fit the description. It isn’t, and I seriously debated whether or not include that fact, for exactly your concern. I ended up including it because I do believe these guys will likely try the scam again, and I wanted to give people the most information possible so they can be on the lookout. I’m sure the barista was able to give a thorough description to the police; hopefully that will be published.

The red getaway car is conveniently generic because the guy who chased them came back to the coffee shop, somewhat out of breath, and said “They got into a red car parked across from the high school.” I didn’t see it myself, and I didn’t question the fellow who did see it.

If you believe the story’s a fabrication, I encourage you to call the police precinct and ask them about it and give us an update here. This is my neighborhood; I love it, and I want my neighbors to be safe. I shared this story moments after it happened in the hopes that it might prevent it happening to someone else. I think this type of “neighborhood watch” is an incredible service of WSB, and we’re all greatly benefiting from it.

JimmyG: I praise anyone willing to help out in any way in these types of situations, but I have to disagree with your saying “Shame on anyone who didn’t give chase”. That’s a choice each individual has to make. There was one young guy in the coffee shop who did chase (as mentioned), a young female friend of the barista, a guy with his 10 year old daughter, and me.

I thought about it, but didn’t chase. For starters, I’m sure the third guy would either have stolen my own work laptop or jumped on me if I tried to go after them (he was standing quite close to me).

I must also admit that I was strongly affected by what happened to my next door neighbor a few years back in San Francisco. He was the nicest, most unassuming guy you could imagine, and he just happened to be a world-class kickboxer. One day he was working out in the gym he owned and saw a car hit and his own parked car. He chased after the speeding car, caught up to it at a red light, and slammed on the window. The driver pulled out a gun and shot my neighbor in the chest, killing him. Suddenly this great guy was dead because of a dent in his car.

I’m not suggesting that we live in fear and never confront criminals. Far from it. But I am suggesting that everyone has to weigh each situation. In that instant, as a father of two very little kids, I didn’t like my odds against these three organized guys stealing a laptop. Another guy in the coffee shop came to a different conclusion and went after them, and I applaud him.

k February 5, 2008 (8:43 pm)

anyone who has ever worked for a retail, restaurant or any other business that cared for their workers, always instructs the employees to never give chase. items can be replaced, not people.

chas redmond February 5, 2008 (8:54 pm)

Michael,
Wow, that’s an awesome recalling of elements of your life. You definitely did the smart and only thing you could – preserve your family. There’s certainly a real lesson going on here in West Seattle of having to become situationally aware. Perhaps not so suddenly, but West Seattle isn’t quite the bedroom it used to be and everyone here probably needs to be that much more neighborhood aware. Knowing your neighbors, being part of a Block Watch (love the parties in my ‘hood), knowing the employees and owners of the many businesses we frequent.
–
I do feel badly somehow for those who feel compelled to live by these ill-begotten gains. Born under a bad moon?

a nony mouse February 5, 2008 (8:59 pm)

“Arrogant and typical.”

Arrogance is assuming that your personal predilections and hang-ups should affect us all. Give me the facts – all of them – please. I’ll make my own mind up.

Amrakx February 5, 2008 (9:15 pm)

Michael, thank you for sharing your traumatic experience. I feel somewhat naive never thinking twice about laptop theft, especially in a local coffee shop. I will be more alert and less relaxed about using my laptop in the future in seemingly safe places. It’s sad to think someone would risk their future on such a mindless criminal act. My apologies to the victim who is new to the area. This is not characteristic of the neighborhood.

Rick February 5, 2008 (9:24 pm)

As far as the race or sex thing – victims rarely, if ever, have the opportunity to choose the race or sex of their assailants. It is what is, politically correct or not.

A February 5, 2008 (9:31 pm)

Please WSB don’t edit. That’s lame. The world is too PC these days; give me a break. Tonight I called the police non-emergency # when I had an unexpected visitor at my door – a BLACK man. He was trying to pull something, casing the neighborhood maybe, because at first said something about being at the wrong door but then changed the story to running out of gas. I shut the door in his face. My neighbor said her bell was rung too. I called to report it bc it is suspicious. I live in a back townhouse – there is no reason to come back here. And when they asked me to describe the person all I could remember was that he was black. It happened so fast I couldn’t remember clothing, etc…

ML February 5, 2008 (9:53 pm)

Who are all these “teens” doing this stuff? Where are the parents? Who raised these kids?!

I’m reading more and more of this type of stuff on this blog (thank God it’s being reported). I just moved to WS one month ago, used to live only 2 blocks from the Cap Hill woman who got stabbed. Makes me sad to see just as much crime here in WS and only 4 blocks from where I am now to boot! Obvisouly this goes to show, sadly, that you cannot trust anyone in public. Be careful of your stuff!! Keep a close eye on what is going on around you!

ML February 5, 2008 (9:55 pm)

A, I agree with you! Our society is WAY too PC these days. These 3 peices of crap who stole from the woman at Freshy’s, if they are indeed black kids, then describe them that way!!

coffee geek February 5, 2008 (9:56 pm)

To not mention race in witnessing of any crime is irresponsible.

Scott J. February 5, 2008 (10:16 pm)

#

â€œThree young African-American menâ€ is a useless description unless the aim is simply to smear all who fit that profile. How about some particular details? Say, for instance, their heights or builds or distinctive clothing? How about the make of the conveniently generic red car?

Sorry, without more details, I say the storyâ€™s a fabrication.

Comment by Alvis â€” February 5, 08 7:09 pm #

–This comment from Alvis represents the worst of Seattle-PC whininess. Yes, some criminals happen to be black–shocking! Does “young” count as a detail? Is the witness biased against kids too? Step into the real world and accept the fact that different races exist and it’s not a crime to refer to it.
-West Seattle native and Obama supporter

Lynne February 5, 2008 (10:33 pm)

A nony mouse: I suppose that is one definition of arrogance; it’s the one put forth by people who don’t get it. You don’t get it, but I’m not mad atcha. I deal with people who don’t get it every day of my life. I’m sorry that you missed my point and oversimplified my views.
Peace.

TheHouse February 5, 2008 (10:45 pm)

Alvis, way to make the reporter the criminal. That’s the liberal way!

There is nothing wrong describing the criminals as they were described above unless they were not three African American males.

Anonymous February 5, 2008 (10:58 pm)

I’m a different anonymous – but I would like to say to Lynne this is a conversation discussing a crime committed against a person in our community. This person had a crime committed against him by a person who was black.

The news may or may not use the term white people when they describe crimes but that is besides the point. This person is trying to describe who committed the crime against him and I know what this is like. Sometimes the only identifying thing you can remember about someone who did this to you is the color of their skin White or Black or Asian or whatever!

This person was just trying to help others in the community and maybe recover his stolen property by reporting what he remembered!!!! He was not purposely trying to single out black people or was not intending to be racist in anyway.

I have one question for you if a black person committed a crime against you, and you knew 100% that he was black, when the police questioned you would you lie and say you have no idea what race he was just to sound “politically correct”?

In the end I hope this man is safe and that his computer is recovered soon.

I’m done and if anyone doesn’t get it it’s you.

Lynne February 6, 2008 (12:25 am)

1. I didn’t call anyone a racist.
2. Statistically speaking, I am more likely than any white person on this blog to have a crime committed against me by another black person, so it could be argued that I have a greater stake in the correct identification of a black criminal.
3. Again, you just don’t get it, I’m tired of trying to explain it and “political correctness” has nothing to do with what I’m talking about.
And now I’m done.

Whitey McWhiterson February 6, 2008 (5:24 am)

I agree with Lynne. If it were standard practice to state the “race” if the perpetrators were fair-skinned, it would feel different.

Yes, skin color is an important factor in identifying suspects of crimes or anyone else who you’re trying to find if you don’t know their name. It helps narrow the field as you’re searching. However, when we see skin color and refer to people as being of a particular ethnic group, we’re making HUGE assumptions that are based on cultural histories of racism and that doesn’t help anyone.

Does having “black” skin make someone African American? They could have been from the West Indies, or South America, where there are also large populations of dark skinned people descended from slaves brought from Africa, but who don’t identify as “African American.” Is their skin really black? My skin is pale, but I’m not Caucasian. You can’t tell by looking at anyone what their ethnic heritage is, only what their skin color is, and there are many factors that influence that.

When we report purely objective information we’re not bringing the emotionally loaded topics of race, class and gender into it. Notice the difference between, for example, between these statements: “a brown skinned woman with short straight black hair, around 5’5″, wearing a long green coat” and “a short Asian woman wearing green”. Which gives you more accurate infromation that will help you identify this person out of a crowd?

This isn’t a criticism of Michael or WSB for their reporting. Unfortunately the world we live in has trained us well to make this kind of assumption about people based on a quick glimpse and one of the first questions the 911 operators ask is what the “race” of the people invovled is.

Race is a social construct. Only 2% of our genes are ultimately responsible for ALL variations in our physical appearances. Visible differences of all kinds have always been used by some groups to discriminate against others, and it should be obvious to any rational adult that doing this is ridiculously unfair and has lead to countless conflicts, inequities and deaths over the centuries. If paying more attention to individual differences instead of lumping people into broad categories is “too politically correct”, then, my friends, this world isn’t nearly polticially correct enough yet.

Still confused? Read this article, and try to do it without becoming defensive (which is not always easy if your skin is pale to begin with). Then maybe you’ll begin to understand what Lynne is saying about “race” not being used as the immediate identifier if the perpetrator is “white.”
http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html

Jack Loblaw February 6, 2008 (6:29 am)

If these young men had not committed a crime no one would be describing them. Should I be offended because they were described as males, a group to which I belong ? I bet that the SPD dispatch used the term “African American males” in the description during the radio call to patrol cars. Further more I bet that African American police officers use the term daily. Are they offended ? Give me a break. I am so sick and tired of the race card being played every time there is an opportunity.

Trevor F. Smith February 6, 2008 (6:35 am)

Alvis wrote: “Sorry, without more details, I say the storyâ€™s a fabrication.”

So, there’s a police report and a reliable witness which people in the community (including myself) know to be trustworthy.

Basically, you’re entirely wrong and you just accused a good person of being a liar. Way to go!

snowlion February 6, 2008 (7:04 am)

So nobody here has ever seen anyone who has committed a crime described as a “white male”?

Interesting. Turn on a TV once in a while, eh?

WSMom February 6, 2008 (7:13 am)

While working behind the counter at a McDonalds 26 years ago I was held up at gunpoint. I remember my frustration, given that I got the best look at them, that the only describing feature I could remember (besides the gun) was that they were young, male and black. I’m always amazed when I see “composite sketches” in the paper that anyone could describe someone they saw in a brief instant under great duress in more than very general terms.

coffee geek February 6, 2008 (7:49 am)

Skin color is a descriptive factor. It has everything to do with how light reflects off the surface. Fine, don’t call it race. Anyone who willfully ignores glaring physical attributes in crime scene account is a moron. I agree, white isn’t the default. If Whitey did it, call him out on it just like with any other race.

withheld February 6, 2008 (7:56 am)

When I was held up at gunpoint on a Los Angeles street some years ago, all I could tell the police was that the gunman was young, male, and white. Honestly, all I could see was that gun, which I was able to describe in much better detail (revolver! large caliber!) than I could the gunman.

If we allow our fears of not being politically correct to get the best of us, then we’re letting crime get the upper hand.

Bonnie February 6, 2008 (8:33 am)

I have seen people described as white males or females.

? February 6, 2008 (8:34 am)

so it’s ok to say that a black man is running for president, but not that a black man just stole my laptop and threw me to the ground????

TeaLady February 6, 2008 (9:12 am)

I watch far too much news (trying to break that habit) and always hear “white” or “caucasian” along with “black”, “African American” and “hispanic” used in descriptions of the perpetrators of crime as well as missing persons, “persons of interest”, etc. I use the terms myself. It’s ridiculous to take offense to it but who am I to judge how anyone else feels about it? I’m a medium height, medium build woman who could more easily be singled out in West Seattle by adding “black” to the description and that’s fine by me. As long as I’m getting praised for something wonderful and not getting blamed for something I didn’t do…

coffee geek February 6, 2008 (9:34 am)

As an aside, race matters in health care. If it were a “social construct”, disease prevalence studies with race as an identifier wouldn’t matter. But they do, of course…which leads to better health care and illness prevention. How does treating everyone with respect and dignity equate to ignoring their individuality?

Lynne February 6, 2008 (9:35 am)

Whitey McWhiterson you have restored my soul.
Thank you for getting it.
You rock.
Peace.

acemotel February 6, 2008 (9:59 am)

The paper Whitey referenced is nearly twenty years old. As a society, we have progressed far beyond that. The white stereotypes described in that paper are not as relevant today as they might have been in 1988, and continuing to cling to them reinforces whatever racial divides remain. The point is well taken that skin color descriptors should be used for everyone: black, white, yellow and red (did I forget anyone?) Striving not to offend anyone at every turn is futile. At some point, it became politically incorrect to call someone black so we described them instead as African-American. Now we are told that ethnic descriptors are offensive because not every dark-skinned person is from Africa.(!)(!) It’s easy to criticize. It’s harder to ascribe good intentions to our (all of society’s) bumbling efforts to be fair and kind and equitable. It’s harder to recognize the gains we’ve made. It’s harder to put the resentments aside, to cast off victimization and move forward with personal responsibility, always in good faith.

villagegreen February 6, 2008 (10:03 am)

I find it somewhat telling that no African Americans have commented in this thread. Either they find the discussion so ridiculous that it’s not worth discussing or the readership of this blog is almost entirely white. Even though I read it daily (usually multiple times), blogging does seem to be a pretty nerdy white person acitvity.

acemotel February 6, 2008 (10:17 am)

Several people writing in this thread have described themselves as black/African-American/dark-skinned. And for those people who haven’t identified themselves, we cannot make assumptions. We don’t know what color/race/ethnicity anyone is. Does it matter???

SA February 6, 2008 (10:56 am)

So Obama is black? Hmmm… isn’t he as much white as he is black? Oh, I get it… from the perspective of white America if you’re not 100% white you must be “something” else. Friends find it weird that although I’m mixed race (but no black) that I can identify myself with the plight of many blacks. Just sayin’. :)

Michael February 6, 2008 (11:19 am)

“This comment from Alvis represents the worst of Seattle-PC whininess.”
.
Now, THERE’S a smear. Go back to Montana. (See how it feels?)
.
That said, I see nothing wrong with mentioning race as identifier.
.
(not the reporting Michael, but the “original” Michael :) )

Michael February 6, 2008 (11:26 am)

Oh, and SA, Barack Obama is most certainly African-American. He’s also European-American. Glad to clear that up for you.

JIggers February 6, 2008 (11:40 am)

Call Al Sharpton now, he’ll get to the bottom of this caper.

NaSw February 6, 2008 (12:00 pm)

Here’s my theory (a rather obvious one): The youth in question were involved in gang initiation activity.

The brazen,random nature of the crimes suggest amateurs. And committing the act as a group, also typical of gang activity (to verify that the task was carried out).

Is it just coincidence that the rise in gang activity is happening along with a rise in drug law offenders who are back out on the street after serving their mandatory federal sentences of 10-15 years? There was a surge of criminal activity in the late 80’s early 90’s, then it got better(as the prison population surged), now it’s on the rise again as those numbers are finishing their sentences. As many of those drug offenders wind up back on the street (having further honed their skills in prison) they set up networks and recruit gang kids to help with the ‘petty crime’. Kind of like a mafia.

Sue February 6, 2008 (12:44 pm)

WSMom, regarding the composite sketches, I had read somewhere about someone who practiced looking at people for descriptions. Look at someone at the bus or in a restaurant quickly and turn away. Try to remember everything about them and then turn back to see if you were right. I don’t do this myself, but with practice I think it could be very helpful to learn to identify people better. It’s easy to not be aware – my coworker who sits next to me, I’ve been at her desk at least 5 times today, and I couldn’t begin to tell you what color she’s wearing today.

Meg February 6, 2008 (1:19 pm)

NaSW very interesting observation and I actually believe you have valid points. I also would like you to commend you for actually referring to teh topic matter…

SA February 6, 2008 (1:27 pm)

So do we have a further description of the “three
young African-American men?” Considering some of the responses and attitudes represented in this thread the only thing I’m able to surmise is that they’re non-white.

LB February 6, 2008 (2:01 pm)

So much hand-wringing over Michael’s description of what happened is just laughable.

I’m not native to Seattle, but moved here 11 years ago from NYC. In that other universe I was involved in or witnessed many horrible acts committed by all kinds of people. I know first hand that thoughtful musings on ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation and ALL of that is a luxury enjoyed by those who were not involved.

Michael offered service to the community in the way he best could. I think the majority of WSB readers applaud his taking the time to fill us in, warts and all.

My thanks go out to Michael and WSB for such timely reporting on crimes committed in our West Seattle neighborhoods.

WSB February 6, 2008 (2:13 pm)

Re: further description, I have asked the SW Precinct if they have more info, in advance of my planned trip over there to review reports in person just a little later this afternoon. As soon as I have some more info to add, I will post an update atop the page.

JumboJim February 6, 2008 (2:29 pm)

Dear WSB,

I really don’t have a problem with “three young African-American men” as a descriptor, but honestly its about as useful as “three young, bi-pedal latte drinkers” or “three caucasian men”. It doesn’t really help the blog reader in the way I think you might intend for it to. If it was more specific though it might help.

What if you were to post the news item and then add any *detailed* suspect descriptions later?

I applaud your efforts to hash out the ethics of it, but I think judging the use of race/age/sex info pragmatically (is it really useful to the reader?) rather than ethically might be the way to go as a supplier of information.

JumboJim February 6, 2008 (2:37 pm)

Yeah LB, its great to have the information supplied promptly but what use is it? So if someone was robbed by “three blind mice” in a city full of blind mice (or Caucasian men, African-American men, etc) is that info useful?

It really seems like something to be viewed from an editor’s viewpoint – cut out info that is not on point, or doesn’t further the point.

My apologies to blind mice everywhere…

a nony mouse February 6, 2008 (3:19 pm)

Wow. JumboJim, that is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. You do realize that WSB is a local blog, not USA Today, right? All credible information about the suspects should be posted because there may be local witnesses to this event. So we go from 3 bipedal latte drinkers to 3 young black men who got into a red car. Narrows things down a bit, doesn’t it? Means we can safely eliminate those 3 grannies coming out of Cupcake Royale who get into the red Taurus, right?

I actually see Lynne’s point – it’s moronic to assume something about a suspect’s identity, or fail to mention their ethnicity or appearance when they’re white. I absolutely agree. I think in all cases where things like this are reported, ALL known information should be reported, in the same way, every time. It’s sad that this isn’t the standard – it seems obvious to me.

It’s surprising to see chatter like this here. My wife and I moved to WS a few months ago from Toronto. We had minimal safety concerns, walked everywhere and loved living in a diverse neighbourhood. The crime statistics map for Seattle, and the ‘hip, relaxed’ stereotype led us to WS. Once we moved here we found that no one walks the neighbourhoods, the streets are deserted of pedestrians after the sun goes down, crime is endemic and under-reported and neighbours are insular. We can’t wait to go home. Take a good, hard look at yourself, West Seattle (hell, Seattle in general). You’ve got some work to do.

WSB February 6, 2008 (3:39 pm)

For everyone hanging out on this thread, we have just spoken to police (even before getting down to the precinct in person) and have an update on the case (and two other cases) on the top of the page (just click the HOME tab).

JanS February 6, 2008 (5:13 pm)

a nony mouse …..I don’t know what part of West Seattle you live in, but I’m in the Admiral District. I have no problem going out at night on the streets, walk to the theater, to a restaurant, etc. There are always people around. And if you go to the Alaska Junction in the evening, the streets are packed with cars, there are places open, people out and about.

Of course, we are not insulated from crime here, just as you aren’t in any big city. But…West Seattle is still a damned great place to live. You might want to start with getting to know the people in your neighborhood. If you are afraid to walk out your door after dark, maybe you could be the person to start a block watch…and find out what’s really going on in your neighborhood..

gwen c. February 6, 2008 (5:25 pm)

wait, you’re seriously telling me you’re afraid to walk around after dark in west seattle?

wait, you’re seriously telling me that crime is “endemic” and yet crimes are almost unilaterally non-violent property crimes? (just like Toronto, actually!)

yes, this sucks. i would have killed to be able to trip the perps on the way out the door had i been there. i’d have much preferred a slightly more detailed description than OMG THEY WERE BLACK but i grant that maybe that’s all that was acquired. i yield the floor to the amazing whitey mcwhiterson on that response as they said everything more eloquently and perfectly than i could have.

but let’s be honest here; seattle is hardly a hotbed of danger. i’ve lived in osaka, manchester (UK), manchester (NH), omaha, hartford, northampton (MA), and fresno. there isn’t even a comparison when it comes to the safety and comfort i feel here. i am not afraid someone’s going to torch my house because i’m mixed or because i’m a lesbian. i know that if someone tried to roll me when walking down the street that those neighborhood toughs on the corner would be on them like white on rice. and oh yeah, i live in a hood most of y’all would call “dangerous” and my life is shockingly uneventful when it comes to the alleged layers of criminal activity that are supposedly all around.

are we even living in the same city? i’ll grant you that seattle can be insular and downright nasty, and that yes, it can feel weird to walk down quiet streets, but eventually you realize that they’re perfectly safe and we don’t pull for one another in general but we sure as hell do in times of trouble.

most of all, though, i’m really sorry this woman got her laptop stolen, as she’s the real victim here and all this detritus about crime reporting 101 and the politics of race and all kind of overshadow that her projects and files and computer are gone. maybe that matters a little more than peoples’ spite about one another, eh?

a nony mouse February 6, 2008 (6:47 pm)

Actually, I said that the “streets are deserted of pedestrians after the sun goes down”, which would imply that other people are afraid to walk around after dark in West Seattle. We actually walked quite a bit before we were broken into and I began to look into what was going on. It’s kind of unfair to compare Seattle to Toronto in the crime (or any, really) department, but I don’t blame you for trying. After all, our’s is bigger than your’s :).

coffee geek February 7, 2008 (8:20 am)

nony mouse: I got home from a concert last night at 11pm and left the house just after 6 am this morning. At both times I witnessed peeps (and their dogs) walking the sidewalks of my ‘hood (happens pretty frequently, actually). We’re not afraid to do the same. Sorry you’re unhappy and fearful here, hope you can get home soon. I hear Toronto is pretty cool.

Francine February 7, 2008 (11:08 am)

nony mouse: there are always people out walking their dogs at all hours in my neighborhood (Admiral). And I have often walked home after a late night flick at the Admiral theater or drinks at one of the neighborhood establishments. On warm summer nights, I have taken many late night strolls. I have never been fearful, and always see friendly neighbors on the streets. I’m not sure why you have such a negative perception of West Seattle.

A February 7, 2008 (11:21 am)

hmm maybe he’s fearful because of all the crimes being committed around W Seattle lately…just a thought, there have been a string of burglaries around here.

Maybe at the Admiral Junction things are different? I know between the Morgan Junction and the Alaska junction it is always deserted and dark. There have been robberies at Morgan so maybe Admiral is a bit nicer?…

Statistics show that Seattle has more than triple the amount of crime than the city of Toronto, and Toronto is probably 5 times the size of Seattle. I think that’s a sign there is a problem here.

villagegreen February 7, 2008 (2:30 pm)

So, the mayor’s and police chief’s assertion that crime has hit a 40 year low in Seattle is a fallacy. W. Seattle is extremely quiet and dark after sundown if you don’t live in Admiral, the Junction, or Morgan districts (and that leaves a lot of area), but calling it unsafe compared to other cities is laughable.

coffee geek February 7, 2008 (3:11 pm)

A: “statistics show” is always suspect unless you cite sources. nony mouse’s claims come from 2004 numbers, and are listed as per 100K people. Just sayin’. :)

Suits are not boring February 7, 2008 (3:17 pm)

Wow, I am bit of a latecomer to this discussion. My two cents – as a resident of the apartment building surrounding Freshy’s – thanks to the WSB for telling me what was going on. All I knew was that there was a fire truck in front of my building, but no obvious fire. This helped me answer some questions!

As to walking around, I am a youngish female and feel very comfortable walking in the Admiral District – including after 11pm when warm. Of course, I pay attention to my surroundings, but I do not feel unduly nervous. My parents, who have lived in Seattle and now live in Phoenix, are always impressed my the number of people walking in West Seattle.

The people at Freshy’s are great and I will continue to grab my coffee there!