Search Results for 'nA'

[Aim]

Scott, I’d personally say don’t worry overmuch about it. We all have our moments around here. :-)

Have a great night!

[alki_2008]

Hi NR, I agree with you. :)

This thread has veered into many different directions. That’s not bad, but if there’s an actual discussion meeting that happens – then it might be good to pick a specific direction and stick to it…which is why I initially asked about the original intent of the original post.

It seems that the different types of prejudice would be best evaluated in a silo’d approach. I mean, both black and white homosexuals face the same homophobia. A white and black woman face the same gender bias.

That being said, for this online forum, it’s great to see the variety of opinions about the variety of topics. :)

[Bayou]

JoB, yes I’ve read that one already so I know it’s heavy but I also found it inspirational and think that our food sources/supply would be a great conversation to have. I also just wanted to see what others thought of some green/foodie type options in general… But I’m completely up for something more entertainment and light-hearted as our next choice. ;)

Zenguy, Click the link to the book and see what you think. I thought that one would inspire a good discussion on class, poverty and politics.

[JoB]

just in case anybody reads something i didn’t intend into my last statement…

i definately believe in giving people who are disadvantaged EVERY kind of assistance they need to take advantage of opportunities we take for granted…

that does include the proverbial handout…

it’s only when we think we have done enough to give a handout that we have failed to give a hand up.

[JoB]

The House..

“Perhaps if you worked more than you blogged you would change your tune. ”

is a personal insult no matter how you look at it.. no matter who that comment was directed at… and only diminishes you.

it really is too bad that you can’t see and appreciate the advantages life has given you for no other reason than your sex or your skin color.

I am glad that you have made the best of those advantages.. and i certainly acknowledge that took work…

but refusing to acknowledge the advantages you have makes it far too easy for you to blame those who can’t do the same thing you have done with far less to start with…

and it devalues what you have accomplished…

Toddinwestwood…

You make some pretty big assumptions there.. you assume that wanting to initiate a conversation means that we are sitting around feeling sorry for ourselves.

i don’t know how to break this to you.. but most of the people who wanted to engage in this conversation don’t have anything to sit around feeling sorry for themselves about as far as race is concerned…

and i can only speak for myself when i say that i don’t feel sorry for myself one little bit because i am female. i would have liked the advantages being a male would have brought, but i am not so sure i would have been willing to give up the unique advantages of being a woman.

my daughter told a tale about a professional conference she attended recently where she toured with some of the giants of her profession for a day.. and because she was a female in a male environment, she had more permission to speak familiarly with those giants..

while one of her male colleagues pointed out that the big kahuna… so to speak.. had an incredible eye when it came to taking tourist snaps, she was the only one who felt comfortable complimenting him and thus ended up in the kind of networking conversation that her male counterpoints would have killed for… but could not have managed because of the social restrictions built into male hierarchy…

she didn’t flirt.. didn’t offer him sex.. she just used her unique ability to make personal conversation with him… and that’s not the first time she has taken similar advantage of being female in a male profession…

as she put it.. “i have to work harder than a man to convince them i even have the right to be in the room.. and i have to endure snide sexist comments when i beat them at their own game and take home the honors.. i may as well take advantage of the benefits i get being a woman”.

Smart girl. do you really think i feel sorry for myself or for her for being a woman?

I may not have had the kind of opportunity that put her at the professional conference to make those connections… but i sure have been using my feminine wiles to make connections that have greatly benefited me..

btw.. when i use the phrase feminine wiles it is just another way of saying i took the time to make personal connections with as many of the people around me as i could.. whether i saw immediate benefit or not…

my daughter was touring with the big kahuna at that international conference because of a connection she had made with a young engineer here in Seattle… you never know when those connections are going to come in handy

You guys really could learn something from the gals if you paid attention:)

but don’t learn too much too fast because your exclusive boys club is what created those opportunities for my daughter and other smart young women :~>

This whole.. they are just being victims if they talk about the elephant in the room” nonsense is just that.. nonsense.

As for doing good… you don’t have to go into the street and pick up litter to do good.

Nor do you have to announce to the world what you have done personally for others to have made an enormous difference in the lives of those around you.

You are currently interested in one of those opportunities to do good that would not exist without people spending time writing on a blog.

this project happens to have been originated by a male.. but this isn’t the first fund raising do gooder project that has originated here…

and even that project will do better if some of those who only have the power of the pen or the connections we have bothered to make in our society pitch in and promote it.

You would do far more good for those who are disadvantaged by acknowledging your advantage and thus helping to change public opinion than by giving them a handout.

how about a hand up instead?

[JanS]

JoB…that’s an interesting question…on You Tube I searched post-racial America, and got a few things, some of which I mentioned above. When I start with the words “white view of post raciism america” I get a lot of things about “white Supremecy and Racism”…many of them have no white people speaking in them…many showing different speeches by Na’im Akbar…a clinical psychologist, but oh, so much more. If anyone is interested in what’s there, either do a search on You Tube of the words above…or Na’im Akbar. Actually he’s more talking to black people in his audience…interesting viewing, for sure…

[alki_2008]

Interesting viewpoints here. Guess I’ll throw some of my own opinions into the fray.

There are certainly instances when being caucasian provides an advantage, but there are also instances when the reverse is true. For example, a caucasian college student looking for scholarships to apply to…finds plenty of scolarships that require x% of “xyz” ethinicity, but no scholarships for being caucasian. Some would argue that, since s/he is caucasian, then s/he doesn’t need a scholarship…but there are plenty of ‘poor’ caucasians out there struggling to pay for college. That is just an example.

Basically, I think there are some cases where being of “xyz” ethnicity provides advantages over being caucasian. Whether or not those advantages outweigh the disadvantages of not being caucasian is another argument.

As others have noted, a person’s ethnicity (whether they’re in the majority or minority) is not the only thing that’s going to determine the outcome of their lives. No one is destined to be rich or poor just because of their race. There are a lot of other factors that come into play…culture, financial status (not all whites are rich nor all blacks poor), individual personality, intelligence, environment, etc.

The role of culture can be seen in homelessness, for example. The proportion of homeless that are Asian is very small (various surveys that can be googled) – this is not because all Asians are such hard-workers or so smart that they never become homeless, but because of their culture. In many Asian cultures, the extended family is such a huge thing and so if someone is too poor to afford a roof over their head, then they are taken in by other family members.

On a side note…

One thing I’ve always thought interesting was about ethnicity vs nationality. For example:

“White” vs German, Irish, French, Russian, Australian, etc

“Asian” vs Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, etc

“Black” vs Somali, Zimbabwean, Haitian, Malawi, etc

“Hispanic” vs Mexican, Portugese, Spanish, Brazilian, etc

ETC

The racism that some Hispanics experience (ie, Mexicans) might be different than the racism that other Hispanics experience (ie, Spanish)…so this is an example of where generalizing all “Hispanics” as the same “people” can pose a problem.

I also think it’s interesting that people see Obama as “black”, even though he’s 50%. I wonder if some caucasian voters would have been less likely to vote for him if he was 100% black.

Anyway, not sure where I’m going with all this rambling. Still interested in whether or not a discussion group happens. I agree that there is racism exhibited by white people, so “racism is a white problem”. If you meant to say that “racism is ONLY a white problem”, then I don’t agree…as there are certainly cases of racism amongst and between other ethnicities/nationalities. So, not sure if I’m eligible for the discussion group. :p

For now, I’ll finish some work and then read McIntosh and Hsu. :-)

[Anonymous]

Regarding Greg Mortenson: I have just recently become aware of this man’s incredible story and immediately wanted to read his book.

This gives me that extra push to finally get it! Really looking forward to it – even if you all decide on another title. :)

[Kayleigh2]

House, it’s too bad you can’t seem to post without insulting people. It alienates people when you demand respect but don’t give it.

Talking about white privilege is not stereotyping, much as you like to think it is. It’s a matter of citing decades of research, science, and even *facts* that point to the advantages you have just by being culturally white. Conservatives often hate science and facts that don’t jibe with their world view, but it’s there nonetheless.

It doesn’t diminish any individual’s accomplishments to say they benefited from white privilege. Lord knows I have benifted tremendously from it. I also benefited from being petite and considered pretty. That takes nothing away from my talents, smarts, accomplishments, or efforts (or lack thereof). I own my successes and failures and I am grateful for the advantages I was given. It’s not a matter of either/or.

To read some very good scholarship on the issue:

http://www.redroom.com/blog/tim-wise/explaining-white-privilege-deniers-and-haters

[Zenguy]

I have kind of a love/hate relationship with the Oscars, but a love only relationship with movies. The Oscars are coming up next month and I was wondering what great movies people have seen this last year, who put out the great performances, etc?

Slumdog Millionare, is a terrific movie if you can deal with seeing torture. I hate violence and totally thought it was worth it.

Gran Torino is a terrific little movie, Clint Eastwood plays a terrific curmudgeon (I could have done with less growling) this movie also has some tough scenes and bring a hankie…my movie buddy and I both cried.

Doubt put out some of the best performances, Meryl Streep, Seymour Hoffman and Viola Davis were all great, the movie was good, but could have been better.

[ToddinWestwood]

I tried to stay out of this one, sorry.

House, I agree with you.

There has to be some better way to make the world a better place than to sit around blogging or having a meeting, feeling sorry for your self because of your race and what a small percentage of that race may think about another race.

If you truly want to do something to make a difference, go to an underprivelaged neighborhood and help out by working with a center for sinlge moms, pick up trash, buy a homeless person lunch.

Sitting around feeling sorry for yourself isnt gonna get SH!* done.

[JoB]

Bayou

LOL.. Animal, Vegetable, Mineral by Barbara Kingslover is as heavy in a totally dfferent way…

great book.. but can we go for a little more entertainment next???

Ellenator.. you can always join the discussion online…

[JoB]

Zenguy..

apt analogy..

and like spousal abuse.. you get conditioned to increasing brutality in that situation…

[Bayou]

I haven’t read “The Year of Living Biblically” but it looks like a fun read. Thanks for the suggestion, Ellen!

I also wonder how others might feel about some green/foodie choices. There are several that I’ve read or wanted to…

Animal, Vegetable, Miracle by Barbara Kingsolver

The Omnivore’s Dilemma by Michael Pollan

Plenty by Alisa Smith

Hot, Flat, and Crowded by Thomas L. Friedman

Thoughts?

[Bayou]

RE: “I wonder if it is possible for any author.. no matter how well versed with the time period they are writing about.. to write about the past without injecting current assumptions and standards for examining age old questions…”

I think that’s a valid point considering that for much of the book, we are reading the authors interpretation of Antonina’s journals.

I can’t imagine the extreme emotional disconnect that one would have to possess to survive during a time of war… and even more so to be a hidden part of the resistance. That especially seemed relevant to the son, Rys, who had few meaningful connections other than to the animals.

I’m also surprised that there wasn’t more anger and outrage at the mistreatment of their animals, especially when they were basically being stolen right in front of them to be sent to other zoos… but then again, I recognize that she was probably very careful about what she shared in her journals.

[FullTilt]

Before I made ice cream I was a shipwright. That is a carpenter on boats. In a shipyard it is a prima donna job. I have never seen an African American Shipwright. Seen plenty of Scalers (worst job), Welders (second worst), but in the wood shop all the faces are white.

I doubt there is any intention to keep Blacks out, but I think when they apply for the job they are just not considered. Regular carpentry is the same way. plenty of Latin and Black framers, but the trim carpenters are always white.

I know I have a privilege being white. Police don’t pull me over nearly as often as brown skinned folks. I don’t get followed around stores. I am less likely to be shot, imprisoned, and my life expectancy is nearly 20 years longer just for the color of my skin.

There has been a lot of advancements made in the past 50 years, but a lot more needs to be done on both sides. I think a Black Pres is going to help that a lot, both giving young black men a role model, and convincing people like my Grandfather that a Black man could do a job as well or better than a White Man.

For a White Male to say that everyone has the same opportunities as him, he is either ignorant, or full of it.

[FullTilt]

We got the box. Bring on the shoes!!! We will be having a party on the 20th. Ice cream and beer specials. Any suggestions for an inaugural flavor?

[JanS]

lol….. “it’s kinda back hoe over on this side of seattle. i’m just sayin… “

are you saying we’re back woods because some businesses aren’t having inauguration celebrations that morning? a clarification please? I’m just curious…

[JoB]

shelbi….

there have been many times in my life when i wished i was male so that the discrimination i faced as a female simply didn’t exist…

as there have been many times in my life that i have been glad that i was born with the advantage of pale skin and coloring… so i didn’t have to face that discrimination…

but i know that i don’t have a clue what it is like to live with that kind of discrimination because i saw only the most obvious examples.

As individuals, it really is all about us, you know. We extrapolate how others are affected by challenges from those we experience ourselves.

so, the more privilege you have during your formative years the less likely you are to be able to understand the lack of privilege experienced by others and how that impacts their lives…

It takes work to see that what you take for granted about the way life works just plain doesn’t apply to everyone…

I have watched the resistance to affirmative action by those who subconsciously.. or consciously.. counted on their privilege to help them climb one more step up the socioeconomic ladder and find themselves thwarted by the leveling of the playing field… with some amusement.

Some take that challenge on and grow from it… becoming more successful by becoming more aware of their environment and developing their unique assets.

other whine like a child deprived of their favorite toy..

I know change takes time…

i can’t speak to that which is centered on the color of your skin.. though i think that intermarriage has already made incredible inroads there…

but i can speak to discrimination against women.

A man gains a different perspective when his girls grow into maturity and begin facing the dissonance between the expectation their parent created that everything is possible and the reality of discrimination…

For some, that perspective never widens beyond the individual instances of prejudice their daughters experience.. but for many it is a wake up call about male privilege that could happen no other way…

There is always hope:)

[TheHouse]

Shelbi, I provided you a specific (and personal) example. You continue to generalize. I’m glad you think I have something that you cannot prove or disprove.

You generalized again in your above post (terms like “people”). Provide me a specific example and we’ll discuss this further.

There is a definitive line between being privileged and working hard for what you have/paying dues. Don’t attempt to blur the line.

[ToddinWestwood]

Come and help me celebrate at work.

[lol]

why am i not surprised that west seattle businesses wouldn’t be eager to have an inauguration celebration? it’s kinda back hoe over on this side of seattle. i’m just sayin…

[LisaM]

JoB – I was thinking the same thing about the need to emotionally disconnect.

I also think that our current connection to animals has greatly evolved since that time – our understanding and acknoledgement of the intelligence and consciousness of animals is more widely recognized. At least I hope so…

[JoB]

rykite…

perhaps a dog park isn’t such a good idea for a dog with dog aggression issues;)

but on the whole, you are right…

i think i reacted so strongly to this incident because it really brought home to me how badly the whole thing could have turned out…

i relaxed my vigilance for a moment.. and it was the wrong moment with the wrong person.

i too would have gone for the ipod explanation if i hadn’t had such a close view of her as she passed, if she hadn’t been so snarky and if her partner hadn’t worn such a look of amazement as he prudently managed his dog.

sometimes people just do really stupid things and you have to wonder if they are thinking about the possible consequences at all…

i will still take the risk of letting my dogs play in the center of a clearing on extended leash when the park is mostly vacant.. because running with them on a short leash is not one of my options… and i get great joy watching them.

but i will be far more protective in my reaction to anyone breaching that isolation next time…

I have hopes that in time these two will be rehabilitated enough that i can be less vigilant but i don’t count on it.

As you pointed out.. i took them in and they are my responsibility.

[corrie]

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