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  • #654025
    JoB
    Participant

    rykite…

    perhaps a dog park isn’t such a good idea for a dog with dog aggression issues;)

    but on the whole, you are right…

    i think i reacted so strongly to this incident because it really brought home to me how badly the whole thing could have turned out…

    i relaxed my vigilance for a moment.. and it was the wrong moment with the wrong person.

    i too would have gone for the ipod explanation if i hadn’t had such a close view of her as she passed, if she hadn’t been so snarky and if her partner hadn’t worn such a look of amazement as he prudently managed his dog.

    sometimes people just do really stupid things and you have to wonder if they are thinking about the possible consequences at all…

    i will still take the risk of letting my dogs play in the center of a clearing on extended leash when the park is mostly vacant.. because running with them on a short leash is not one of my options… and i get great joy watching them.

    but i will be far more protective in my reaction to anyone breaching that isolation next time…

    I have hopes that in time these two will be rehabilitated enough that i can be less vigilant but i don’t count on it.

    As you pointed out.. i took them in and they are my responsibility.

    corrie
    Member

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    #654803
    JoB
    Participant

    i think that if we are going to make comments about a book before the discussion at Barnes and Noble that we should be careful not to spoil the ending for others reading it.

    i don’t think that applies so much in this case since this book recounts a life story that is easily researched online…

    we know or can easily find out what happened.. what we don’t know is how this seemingly straightforward project impacted the lives of those it touched…

    I am not finished with the book yet.. but I find myself struck with how one day or one event in your life can not only change the course of the rest of your life.. but the course of so many other lives…

    i am also struck by how much impact attitude has on whether good ideas become good projects… you may not have to see how something will turn out before you begin.. but it seems clear that believing it is possible to start really makes a difference…

    a good conversation to have before make a difference day on the 19th…

    so feel free to spill a little enthusiasm and enticing comments for this book ellenator…

    i suspect this may be a life changing read for some people:)

    and perhaps just another do-gooder tale for others…

    We will be choosing our next book at the next meeting.. maybe our next two or three so that slower readers feel they have plenty of time to finish a book they are interested in…

    so.. suggestions please!

    the plan is for those who attend the meeting to make the choices… one of the many perks of attending the meetings is getting to make decisions;)

    but we will make better more interesting decisions with more input…

    #654745

    A friend of mine was talking to the owner of Beveridge about opening early for Inauguration Day. He was fairly interested, but I am not sure if he made a decision.

    I know West 5 is serving Happy Hour starting at 11am :)

    #654793
    JoB
    Participant

    LisaM..

    i too was struck by the passive nature in which the characters accepted the excessive cruelty to animals…

    but maybe that was because of the emotional disconnect necessary to survive what was happening not only to animals but to people…

    #654792
    LisaM
    Participant

    Really good points JoB, I share a lot of your thoughts about how interesting the book was from a historical perspective, yet somewhat emotionally disconnected.

    I really learned a lot – I didn’t know much about how Poland was affected (beyond the ghetto).

    I am such a passionate animal lover and I was crushed by the cruelty. I wanted to scream and was wondering why the characters seemed almost passive about it. But maybe it was a just a time that affected people differently. I am sure it was overwhelming and perhaps they couldn’t allow themselves to have strong emotions about animals.

    I was also fascinated by the “animal engineering” and the German idea of correct animals and species. I had heard a bit about this for dog breeds and looked into it more out of curiosity.

    I have not yet finished the book, but am enjoying it.

    #654024
    rykrite
    Member

    I just logged in and read all 7 pages of this thread. Some interesting twists and turns – gotta love the free-flow exchange of ideas here, and how stream-of-consciousness it all becomes.

    Dogs: Keep your dog on a short leash. If you want your dog to run, go to a dog park. It isn’t really complicated, is it? There were no rights and wrongs on the original post – it seems like a series of mistakes. The OP should avoid retractable leashes; the person coming by should have paid better attention. (I personally am going with the “listening to an iPod and kind of zoned out” theory.)

    And dogs vs. children – well, as the owner of one sweet rescue dog and the mother of one precious snowflake, I’ve seen both kinds of threads here.

    As the owner of one very gentle lab-mix, I’m appalled by the ridiculousness of some dog owners. (My favorite recent incident was recently in the Junciton. I had my dog on a short :-) leash, and a woman with a dog approached. I gave her my standard warning “He’s very friendly and likes dogs, but he’s young and bouncy and some dogs don’t like him.” She said that was great as she let her dog get an inch away from my dog, and then said, “As long as your dog is sitting, my dog won’t mind.” My dog continued sitting even as warning lights flashed in my head – why does my dog have to sit? – and her dog attacked my dog. Why on earth would she approach me with a dog, answer my question incorrectly, and then let her dog attack mine? My dog has been trained to be incredibly docile, and he couldn’t wait to get out of there. Me too.)

    If your dog has aggression issues, with dogs or people, it’s your job as an owner to avoid people or dogs. Period. A public park is a public park, and if someone wants to run through a park that is their perogative (though if I’d been the woman in question I would have heeded the warning). An unpredictable dog, or one prone to aggression, shouldn’t be on a 15 foot leash in public, ever, precisely because you can’t control other people.

    Actually, I think that the dogs vs children comment is right on in one regard: parents need to take responsibility for their kids, and so do dog owners. If my daughter had a fit in a resturant when she was a toddler, I removed her (kindly, I hope). I don’t expect a two year old lab mix to obey every second of my orders, so when we’re out I keep him on a short leash. That’s my JOB because I elected to have a child and to adopt a dog. It’s just not that complicated! And yes, of course I make mistakes, and I hope that others forgive me those mistakes…and I also hope that I learn from them.

    And absinthe seems to be all the rage – what does it taste like? Am I the last person to have it? I’ve never tasted it.

    #654802
    Bayou
    Member

    Sorry ellenator, I should have also posted this explainer: **We decided at last night’s book club meeting to extend our book discussions to the forums, in addition to meeting bimonthly. We hope that this will further the conversations in a format that everyone interested can participate in, whether or not you are able to attend the meetings.

    We are also seeking suggestions for the next book selection.**

    We were thinking that the next book should be less intense than the first two choices. Some ideas that came to mind were The Art of Racing in the Rain by Garth Stein or Deer Hunting with Jesus by Joe Bageant.

    #654791
    Bayou
    Member

    There is no doubt that this book made me think and the events that it is based on are truly fascinating. Many aspects make for good discussion, especially the genetic engineering of animals by the Nazis (a concept I wasn’t very familiar with) and the conditions in Poland’s Warsaw ghetto during the war.

    That said, the narrative style left much to be desired for me. I had to force myself to finish reading it because Ackerman’s writing came across very disjointed and at times the research (and endless quotes) drowned out the heart of the story. There was a lack of character development that I felt could have made the book stronger. It also really irked me that she would change tenses in the midst of a paragraph. It was jarring to “be” walking the streets of Warsaw and then suddenly jolted back to present day, looking back. There was a lack of cohesiveness in the transitions that she made from research to storytelling.

    #654661
    jwd
    Member

    Hi Ken, Jeff Upthegrove is the new Membership Chair and Stuart Yarfitz is the lead on the new data management system. They both know that there’s a problem with household memberships and they are working on it.

    You read it in the newsletter: nominations, as always, may be made from the floor. I’m too old to know anything about a Gallagher concert, but bring that plastic sheeting.

    #654744
    B-squared
    Participant

    I will be going to Town Hall where they will be having a viewing event (Since “the Stranger’s” event at the Triple Door is sold out). Too bad some place like Beveridge Place Pub couldn’t open early that day and serve champagne to the celebrants and have the festivities on their big screens.

    #654263
    ericak
    Member

    Hope to see new neighbors at our JuNO meeting tonight. If you are unable to attend we will post updates to our blog at http://www.wsjuno.com in the coming days.

    #654790
    JoB
    Participant

    step 2.. online discussion?

    I have mixed reviews for this book. I am glad i read it because the subject matter made me think about some things in a different way…

    such as… i had no idea that zoo reform was so far advanced by the time of the second world war. It’s difficult to tell with the descriptions in the book how much they had advanced in the creation of naturalized exhibits.. since I know that i hear those words in current context… but this book’s descriptions made it sound as though this zoo was far ahead of what i know to have been the leading edge here in this country in the late 50s.

    I also had no idea how far reaching the Nazi ideas were on the concept of creating their perfect race.. this book made me realize that their concept of perfect society extended beyond buildings and human engineering but into the engineering of animals.. specifically mentioned was creating animals for the perfect hunt.

    this has made me very curious about some of the game parks in Germany. I had never thought much about them or the wildlife in them. Now, i wouldn’t visit that area of the world without making a point to experience them. The nazis were successful enough to genetically engineer at least the appearance of at least one ice age animal…

    and the wonder of that made me think more about the importance of zoos as the repository of species that have become extinct in their natural environments…

    I knew Poland was occupied.. but i wasn’t aware of the systematic effort by the nazis to eliminate the Poles and make that land available to extend Germany…

    and that did make me think more about the current situation in Gaza… I don’t believe the intention is the same but i am now thinking more about the outcome…

    that said, it was difficult for me to connect to the characters as the character most fully developed was a wild animal taken in as a pet….

    and her lack of transition between current experience and her thoughts about visiting Prague and the story she was relating about the past were more than annoying…

    So.. would i recommend it?

    If you are at all interested in zoos and zoology.. yes.. heartily…

    if you are at all a modern history buff or interested in how war impacts a population.. yes.. again heartily

    if you don’t much like fiction but like your history and/or science wrapped in a tale.. yes.

    i didn’t enjoy reading this book… i was disappointed and felt left down… but i also haven’t stopped thinking about it.

    This book did spark a discussion about racial and other forms of discrimination and about human integrity.

    i can’t wait to hear other people’s comments…

    if you read the book and have anything to say about it.. please chime in… Don’t feel that you have to be a book club “member” to make a comment…

    i think a member in this instance can be defined as anyone who takes an interest:)

    #653756
    JoB
    Participant

    thanks guys.. that was helpful…

    now i have a question..

    what i understand from the comments made is that if you have your phone through your computer and your signal strength is variable.. your sound quality is also likely to be variable…

    i make the assumption that if i lose enough signal strength to log on or make internet connects then i may also lose my phone connection as frequently…

    is that an accurate assumption?

    with vonage, i know that inability to connect will roll my calls over to the cell phone.. so outages during ordinary circumstances don’t seem to be an issue though outages caused by catastrophes might be because of overuse of cell phone towers…

    Ken did point out that phone connections via computer were more reliable here in the latest catastrophe to affect phone lines than copper (Qwest) or cell phones..

    was that more likely to be because of the technology or because of the fact that not so many of us use that technology yet?

    am i understanding this well enough yet to ask intelligent questions and if not.. what am i missing?

    #654541
    JoB
    Participant

    duckitude…

    “Those who are willing to discuss and self-examine are generally those who don’t need to, so to speak.”

    Too some extent i agree with you about this… those who view such a discussion as sitting around a room exchanging self pity certainly won’t attend… but those who are curious might… and everyone in the room is likely to look at something differently as a result of being exposed to other people’s perceptions…

    I think awareness is like a smile… When i walk down the street smiling…

    there are some people who are going to decide i must be crazy to smile and will dismiss me..

    and some who will decide that i am not going to change their attitude and frown..

    but for the most part people will smile back with varying degrees of feeling and for many that smile will change their attitude.. at least for a while.

    It works.. they have actually studied this one:)

    I think that increasing your awareness of the struggles other people face humanizes them as individuals and will ultimately change the way you view them and interact with them.

    After all, the largest form of discrimination happens when we don’t recognize people as individuals worthy of our positive attention.. but as troublesome others…

    I believe that the sight of even one person treating another as an equal is enough to make those viewing stop and consider that individual.. if only for a split second…

    you build enough of those and you have change…

    i have seen this in my lifetime. Had you asked me when i was a young woman, i would say that being of acknowledged mixed race would have been a greater barrier to a man’s success than being black.

    Yet, the behavior of a few interracial couples and their acceptance by their peers during the 60s and the proliferation of children that resulted and acceptance by grandparents and then by friends of friends has definately changed that… and in only 2 generations:)

    amazing….

    #589443
    Bayou
    Member

    Book #2 Three Cups of Tea by Greg Mortenson and David Oliver Relin

    Summary: This inspirational story takes us on Greg Mortenson’s journey of establishing schools throughout rural Pakistan and Afghanistan. After a failed attempt to summit K2, Greg gets lost and finds himself in the small village of Korphe. It was here that his life’s path would be altered forever.

    #635595
    Al
    Participant

    Clarification to Spokane viaduct closure time line:

    http://www.seattle.gov/Transportation/docs/spokaneSSSP_web808.pdf

    4th Ave S, exit westbound: closure projected mid-2009. (No WB access and egress to & from Spokane upper roadway until April 2011)

    1st Ave S, entrance westbound: closure projected January 2010

    I suppose the concern at this point is those vehicles that won’t be able to exit at 4th will exit at Marginal Way. Then they will be “stuck” in the Port loop – unable to make u-turns (well, illegally able to make u-turns), frustrated, driving too fast and not paying attention. That’s just an assumption.

    #589442
    Bayou
    Member

    **We decided at last night’s book club meeting to extend our book discussions to the forums, in addition to meeting bimonthly. We hope that this will further the conversations in a format that everyone interested can participate in, whether or not you are able to attend the meetings.

    We are also seeking suggestions for the next book selection.**

    Book #1 The Zookeeper’s Wife: A War Story by Diane Ackerman

    Summary: A WWII story of Jan Zabinski, the director of the Warsaw Zoo, and his wife, Antonina, who sheltered 300 Jews as well as Polish resisters in their villa and in animal cages and sheds. Using Antonina’s diaries, other contemporary sources and her own research in Poland, the author takes us into the Warsaw ghetto and the 1943 Jewish uprising and also describes the Poles’ revolt against the Nazi occupiers in 1944.

    #654540
    beachdrivegirl
    Participant

    Carrying on with the thread jack…my personal favorites are the ones that someone posts, someone responds to, and then they delete theire entire original posts.. always keeps me guessing.

    #653754
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    jenny12,

    I am not Ken, but I will try to help.

    You wrote:

    “What phone service do you suggest? Sounds like Qwest because you said the copper ‘sounds the best and is the most reliable.'”

    The phone company Qwest (Qwest used to be USWest) has the best phone service, not a cable TV company.

    “then you say: The power for the ring tone and the signal are self contained …and you talk about the ‘offhook’ alarm.”

    That means that a Qwest phoneline will keep working even if the electricity to your house is off during a power outage. Don’t worry about the “‘offhook’ alarm” because that is beyond your skill level and beyond almost all consumers’ skill level.

    “I don’t understand that information, but does it mean anything bad about Qwest for phones service?”

    No.

    “You say: ‘they started blocking port 25 traffic transiting their network and did not tell their ‘tech support’ drones about it or even explain what it was. (Port 25 is the port all SMTP (mail) servers use)”.

    Many Internet Service Providers (ISPs) block port 25 as an anti-spam measure, and Comcast has also recently begun doing so, to the entire internet’s relief.

    If an ISP blocks port 25, that prevents an end user from sending email directly from his/her home computer without using his/her ISP’s email server. Don’t worry if you don’t understand that. Just remember it is an anti-spam measure.

    If you want to remember a little more about port 25: some end users like to use their home computers as servers even though that is prohibited by their ISP unless the end user pays extra money in order to not look like a spammer.

    “I wonder if this issue is what happened to me: Around Oct of 2007, when I first set up with Comcast, I had a terrible time with my email. The drones and techs were no help at all, and each one said the last guy at the house did the wrong thing.”

    “I finally spent 90 minutes on the phone with a manager. to finally put my email settings at: 587 with no SSL (outgoing) and 110 no SSL (for incoming). It was insane, like you say. I think I had been on 25. Sounds like part of the same mess you talked about above?”

    Port 587 is used for outgoing email if port 25 is blocked. That is unnecessary if you are using your ISP’s email server (probably smtp.comcast.net) for outgoing email.

    Some call center customer service representative you spoke to did not understand what he/she was reading from the script.

    The reason Comcast blocked port 25 is to cut down on the entire internet’s spam load. Comcast has a huge number of customers (end users), and many of Comcast’s end users’ Microsoft Windows computers are infected by viruses to the extent that those boxes are part of worldwide botnets that are currently the number one source of email spam (and worse).

    The Comcast “tech-support” script reader you talked to should have stayed with you until your email software was configured to send email only to Comcast’s email server instead of being able to send email directly via port 587.

    Some of your emails are probably not being delivered because your recipients’ ISPs are using DNSBL(s)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNSBL

    to block spam. If you send email through your ISP’s email server (probably smtp.comcast.net) instead, you should not have that problem.

    smtp.comcast.net may have slowdowns as a result of the increased load after so many Comcast end users switched from sending email directly… dunno… the rest of the internet doesn’t care and heaves a sigh of relief from the decreased spam load.

    My recommendation for an end user with your skill level is to use a free WWW email provider. There is no configuration necessary beyond enabling cookies in your WWW browser (and that is probably the default anyway).

    Yahoo

    https://login.yahoo.com/config/mail?.intl=us

    and

    Gmail

    https://www.google.com/accounts/ServiceLogin?service=mail

    are popular.

    Port 110 is standard for incoming email. Don’t worry about it.

    SSL (Secure Sockets Layer) is used for encrypted connections. Don’t worry about it for now. You can use it later if you want to after your email is working normally.

    “With C. Cast email, I get this occasional problem with the outgoing emails. They sit in the outbox or sometimes get returned for no reason.”

    I suspect that is because your computer is sending email directly instead of using your ISP’s email server. Your ISP’s email server is probably named something like smtp.comcast.net

    “Do you think this will better with Qwest? Will the overall quality be better? I have heard it is slow.”

    If you turn on phone service with Qwest but keep your internet access through Comcast, then there will be no difference regarding your email. Your phone service will be separate from your internet access and your email service.

    “If I get a Qwest phone, will the sound quality be affected by whether I keep C.cast internet or get Qwest.”

    If you get Qwest phone service but keep your Comcast internet service, and your phone is plugged into the Qwest phoneline jack instead of whereever Comcast had it plugged into, then Comcast will have no effect on your Qwest phoneline.

    “I have an Apple computer, does that affect my what my best choices for internet service?”

    No.

    #654537
    Duckitude
    Member

    Hi All: I am a little late to this discussion, and possibly, at this late hour, may say something that is a bit of a detour… but here goes anyway.

    Absolutely, white privilege, not dissimilar to male privilege, is alive and well. Whether discussing it or not will change things, I think, is a good question. Personally, I think it won’t. Those who are willing to discuss and self-examine are generally those who don’t need to, so to speak. For there to be a more general change in cultures and subcultures, the choir needs to speak to others, not to each other, if you get my drift. I hope I am making sense.

    On the detour note — I think male privilege is a way more counter-productive and anti-democratic force world-wide, by far, and certainly still in the U.S., than any racism… but I could be wrong. What about that one, guys and women — the sexism discussion group?

    #654536
    TheHouse
    Member

    I would never speak for anyone else, but here is my take:

    Making the statements like “White Privilege” or “White Guilt” are generalizations. No different from generalizing that all black people have rhythm, all Asians are smart or all Mexicans work hard. Bottom line is that they generalize a race and don’t speak to individual situations.

    Jan has already stated above that she does not feel privileged, as millions of white people would agree. Some of you would probably argue that she is “blinded” by her “white privilege”. I would argue that privilege is a subjective term and is relative.

    I would also agree with Dunno above. Rather than sitting around a coffee house feeling self pity for one another, look for true ways to break stereotypes. If you view your local supermarket listing foods as “ethnic”, then do you also view Black Entertainment Television, Chinatown or an area in Miami named “Little Havana” as racist terms as well?

    And I wanted to interject a personal viewpoint/example. It illustrates my world view. I interviewed for promotions 3 times from 2000-2003. 2 of the 3 times, I was beat out by women (both white). The other time I was beat out by a white male. Not one time during all three interviews did I scream “Yippe!! I just helped advanced women in the workplace”. Not one time did I say that they got the jobs because they were women. They kicked my ass fair and square and I wanted to kick their ass. There was never a thought of self pity or feeling that they should have got the jobs b/c I am a man and they deserve the opportunity.

    There are more resources allotted to minorities in this country than to the white majority. Show me an individual case of anyone (White, Black, Hispanic, or otherwise) who states that they don’t have opportunity in this country and I will show what they are passing up……where there is a will, there is a way.

    #654743
    WSB
    Keymaster

    We wrote recently about the West Seattle Democratic Women’s plans:

    https://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=13262

    #654786

    In reply to: To WSB owners

    WSB
    Keymaster

    And re: the feature Aim mentions, unfortunately there will be no fix for that until the forum software is available in a stable 1.0 form, ETA unknown – the developers have just released yet another iteration of 1.0 ALPHA, but this site is too busy to take chances with an alpha … we’ll see how things look when they get to beta.

    #589441

    Topic: To WSB owners

    in forum Open Discussion
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    10:26pm January 12, 2009 edit:

    Sometimes I show that I am sometimes a fool. I have edited my original post to this thread to reflect that. Sorry, WSB owners, and thank you, Aim.

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