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January 13, 2009 at 11:47 pm #654559
FullTiltParticipantHouse. I am not saying that you got to where you are by the color of your skin. The great thing about this country is that any one, no matter of race, creed, ethnic origin, sexuality, can make something great of themselves. Few countries offer that possibility. I am also not saying that certian people sabotage themselves with a victim mentality. There is a great book on that called “losing the race”, by John McWhorter.
What I am saying is that there are privileges to being a White Male in this society. Surely you would agree with that.
January 13, 2009 at 11:47 pm #654560
GenHillOneParticipantBDG – My point was that it isn’t my place to question how anyone here spends their day. You do not, nor does anyone else, need to explain your schedule to me. It’s irrelevant to both the discussion and to one’s definition of success.
January 13, 2009 at 11:56 pm #654561
AnonymousInactivealki 2008 – Thank you for such an eloquent post. I share your viewpoint.
That’s why I feel it would be interesting to know what the end of racism would look like to those who are victims of racism. If we don’t know what translates into true equality for everyone, how can we even begin to reverse it?
January 14, 2009 at 12:04 am #654562
JanSParticipantJoB…that’s an interesting question…on You Tube I searched post-racial America, and got a few things, some of which I mentioned above. When I start with the words “white view of post raciism america” I get a lot of things about “white Supremecy and Racism”…many of them have no white people speaking in them…many showing different speeches by Na’im Akbar…a clinical psychologist, but oh, so much more. If anyone is interested in what’s there, either do a search on You Tube of the words above…or Na’im Akbar. Actually he’s more talking to black people in his audience…interesting viewing, for sure…
January 14, 2009 at 12:09 am #654563
JanSParticipantbut there is this…a brief thing from 20/20…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTYn1WRCuoU&feature=PlayList&p=7B68FF461C78817A&index=25
January 14, 2009 at 12:12 am #654564
JoBParticipantThe House..
“Perhaps if you worked more than you blogged you would change your tune. ”
is a personal insult no matter how you look at it.. no matter who that comment was directed at… and only diminishes you.
it really is too bad that you can’t see and appreciate the advantages life has given you for no other reason than your sex or your skin color.
I am glad that you have made the best of those advantages.. and i certainly acknowledge that took work…
but refusing to acknowledge the advantages you have makes it far too easy for you to blame those who can’t do the same thing you have done with far less to start with…
and it devalues what you have accomplished…
Toddinwestwood…
You make some pretty big assumptions there.. you assume that wanting to initiate a conversation means that we are sitting around feeling sorry for ourselves.
i don’t know how to break this to you.. but most of the people who wanted to engage in this conversation don’t have anything to sit around feeling sorry for themselves about as far as race is concerned…
and i can only speak for myself when i say that i don’t feel sorry for myself one little bit because i am female. i would have liked the advantages being a male would have brought, but i am not so sure i would have been willing to give up the unique advantages of being a woman.
my daughter told a tale about a professional conference she attended recently where she toured with some of the giants of her profession for a day.. and because she was a female in a male environment, she had more permission to speak familiarly with those giants..
while one of her male colleagues pointed out that the big kahuna… so to speak.. had an incredible eye when it came to taking tourist snaps, she was the only one who felt comfortable complimenting him and thus ended up in the kind of networking conversation that her male counterpoints would have killed for… but could not have managed because of the social restrictions built into male hierarchy…
she didn’t flirt.. didn’t offer him sex.. she just used her unique ability to make personal conversation with him… and that’s not the first time she has taken similar advantage of being female in a male profession…
as she put it.. “i have to work harder than a man to convince them i even have the right to be in the room.. and i have to endure snide sexist comments when i beat them at their own game and take home the honors.. i may as well take advantage of the benefits i get being a woman”.
Smart girl. do you really think i feel sorry for myself or for her for being a woman?
I may not have had the kind of opportunity that put her at the professional conference to make those connections… but i sure have been using my feminine wiles to make connections that have greatly benefited me..
btw.. when i use the phrase feminine wiles it is just another way of saying i took the time to make personal connections with as many of the people around me as i could.. whether i saw immediate benefit or not…
my daughter was touring with the big kahuna at that international conference because of a connection she had made with a young engineer here in Seattle… you never know when those connections are going to come in handy
You guys really could learn something from the gals if you paid attention:)
but don’t learn too much too fast because your exclusive boys club is what created those opportunities for my daughter and other smart young women :~>
This whole.. they are just being victims if they talk about the elephant in the room” nonsense is just that.. nonsense.
As for doing good… you don’t have to go into the street and pick up litter to do good.
Nor do you have to announce to the world what you have done personally for others to have made an enormous difference in the lives of those around you.
You are currently interested in one of those opportunities to do good that would not exist without people spending time writing on a blog.
this project happens to have been originated by a male.. but this isn’t the first fund raising do gooder project that has originated here…
and even that project will do better if some of those who only have the power of the pen or the connections we have bothered to make in our society pitch in and promote it.
You would do far more good for those who are disadvantaged by acknowledging your advantage and thus helping to change public opinion than by giving them a handout.
how about a hand up instead?
January 14, 2009 at 12:18 am #654565
JoBParticipantJanuary 14, 2009 at 12:20 am #654566
JoBParticipantjust in case anybody reads something i didn’t intend into my last statement…
i definately believe in giving people who are disadvantaged EVERY kind of assistance they need to take advantage of opportunities we take for granted…
that does include the proverbial handout…
it’s only when we think we have done enough to give a handout that we have failed to give a hand up.
January 14, 2009 at 12:23 am #654567
beachdrivegirlParticipantHouse, I didnt know only white males worked for the phone company you worked at? Wierd. I never would have guessed.
January 14, 2009 at 12:46 am #654568
AnonymousInactiveDisclaimer: JMO
I see a multitude of different discussions going on here, within this one thread.
How can white people undo injustices done to other races?
Is there racism between all races?
Is sexism still a problem in society today?
Is racism even prevalent today (and if so, how much so)?
What is the answer to abolishing racism everywhere?
Intersting discussions (all of them).
January 14, 2009 at 12:59 am #654569
alki_2008ParticipantHi NR, I agree with you. :)
This thread has veered into many different directions. That’s not bad, but if there’s an actual discussion meeting that happens – then it might be good to pick a specific direction and stick to it…which is why I initially asked about the original intent of the original post.
It seems that the different types of prejudice would be best evaluated in a silo’d approach. I mean, both black and white homosexuals face the same homophobia. A white and black woman face the same gender bias.
That being said, for this online forum, it’s great to see the variety of opinions about the variety of topics. :)
January 14, 2009 at 2:45 am #654570
TraciMemberThis thread seems so self indulgent.
January 14, 2009 at 3:50 am #654571
danielleSMemberIf, after participating in this thread, you understand its original intent and wish to participate in an on-going, in person conversation in a progressive and constructive manner, please message me privately to get the when and where.
The six identity statuses or stages which characterize a white individual’s pattern of responding to racial situations in his or her environment, span too large a range to provide for coheision in a group setting. So for this meet up, lets set the entry point for those who would consider themselves at least at the “Pseudoindependence” stage. Definition: marked by an intellectual understanding of the unfairness of racism as a system of advantage and a recognition of the need to assume personal responsibility for dismantling it.
Progressing to the next stage, “Immersion/Emersion” could be included in our group’s projected intent. Its definition is, “Actively seeking answers to the questions, “Who am I racially? What does it mean to be White in our society?” the individual needs information about White allies, those Whites who have worked against racism, as role models and guides for a new way of thinking about White Identity.
There is one last stage that we may discuss at our meeting.
Im excited to know that people are willing to engage and look forward to our journey together.
January 14, 2009 at 5:47 am #654572
AdamOnAlkiParticipantI’d join a group that supported white causes. With Black History Month (aka White Guilt Month) coming up soon, it would be great to give ourselves a little psychological pick-me-up. I LOOOOVE me some black people, but February always reminds me what jerks my ancestors were. And that ain’t cool.
January 14, 2009 at 6:08 am #654573
JoBParticipantAdamonAlkai…
this is a white cause…
thanks for posting to illustrate why it is so important….
January 14, 2009 at 7:31 am #654574
roundthesoundParticipantWhy the PM for the where and when? Is this a secret meeting of white people?
January 14, 2009 at 7:38 am #654575
alki_2008ParticipantIs there a place where the “six identity statuses or stages which characterize a white individual’s pattern of responding to racial situations in his or her environment” is defined, so that we can better understanding the basic guidelines of this discussion?
Thanks.
January 14, 2009 at 8:24 am #654576
danielleSMemberalki_2008: Janet Helms’ White racial identity development model.
January 14, 2009 at 6:11 pm #654577
lyntleMemberthis is an amesome thread. very sneaky title. I’m not white so I can’t go to the meeting but godspeed to you all! less guilt, more enlightenment and awareness!
……and I’m not even remotely religious ;)
thats a joke peops
January 14, 2009 at 6:48 pm #654578
AnonymousInactiveI am inclined to agree with Traci. This thread is extremely ironic.
As I understand it, the point of this get-together (now secret via PMs?) is to find the answers to end white’s racism towards other minorities. Yet, the get-together is being presented as inclusive to “whites only”. Doesn’t that defeat the whole purpose of the get-together?
January 14, 2009 at 7:32 pm #654579
JoBParticipantdanilleS
even though i PMd you.. i have to agree that choosing a public time and place seems a better option than a privately formed group..
but this is your project…a project worth doing.. and you have the right to do it your way.
if nothing else, the conversation you have stimulated has been worthwhile for those who chose to engage.
January 14, 2009 at 7:33 pm #654580
lyntleMemberI disagree NewResident.
don’t think PMing is very difficult.
and for all who don’t get it, awareness, enlightenment and understanding comes from the willingness to view this subject and situations through the eyes of people who aren’t white.
January 14, 2009 at 7:57 pm #654581
danielleSMemberLet me be more clear:
1. My vision is NOT for an exclusive, “whites only” meet up. I do believe, however, that racism is a white problem and that dismantling it is also white people’s responsibility. Now, getting feedback from people of other races would be valuable and welcome. What Im NOT interested in, as I stated before, is devoting time to debating with people about whether or not racism is still prevalent and detrimental in our society. That is a meaningful conversation to have, and necessary for our society to move forward toward the goal of equality for all people, it’s just not where I am interested in focusing my efforts. Though I do have those conversations at least weekly! What I want is to get together with people who are at a like-minded place in their awareness of issues of racism, and have some sort of fellowship/support/action group. I’d like to meet and discuss things we see daily in the white community that are slighting, oppressioning, dismissing, offending, and hurting people. And not just doing damage to people of color, but also misleading our younger generation of white people, and reinforcing some learned behaviors in our older generations. I think this stuff is conquerable. BUT I STRONGLY BELIEVE IT WILL TAKE A COALITION OF PEOPLE WITH THE SAME GOAL OF FIGHTING RACISM IN OUR DAILY LIVES.
This means things like getting together and sharing experiences we have or hear about. It means strategizing effective ways of combatting racism in the white community without using guilt or shame. It’s about action. I will be proposing that we start writing letters to lobby stores to stop using the word “ethnic” to describe products marketed to non-white people, as this is not only marginalizing to those people, it reinforces the idea that white is a standard rather than an ethnicity itself.
I do not want to or mean to offend or alienate anyone. Im just ready for action. Ive got ideas (that may or may not be good!) and I’d like to share them and hear other’s ideas too.
Incidently, Im kinda new this blog stuff and dont know how to get “PMs”. Can someone please tell me how?
January 14, 2009 at 7:59 pm #654582
AnonymousInactiveEdited after further information became available.
Thanks for clearing that up, danielle! :)
Good luck!
January 14, 2009 at 8:07 pm #654583
JoBParticipantdanielleS…
when you click on the forum button.. at the top of the page.. before the listings.. there will be a message telling you that you have a new message…
if you click on that, it will take you directly to your PMs and you click on the subject, not the person to read your messages…
you will also find a notice at the bottom of the forum page under VIEWS.. that tells you the status of your personal mailbox.
you can click on the bottom message to get to your mailbox as well…
once in your mailbox, you will have two lists.. one for incoming messages.. and one for outgoing…
if there is an icon next to the message in incoming.. it means you have not read it yet.
if there is an icon next to an outgoing message it means they haven’t read it yet.
if you delete an incoming message from someone.. you will also delete any outgoing messages to them that you have generated.. so it’s better to ignore the delete option…
i know you have mail waiting:)
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