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September 9, 2011 at 1:33 am #733974
jamminjMember“The feds LOVE to control the banks system… if they had kept their paws off…. and let good old asset valuations and credit risk determine loans .. well, this whole damn implosion would never have happened.”
You’re kidding I hope, but I doubt it – sad. I guess I can school you on the facts, but like in previous discussions… facts seem to go over your head.
September 9, 2011 at 2:28 am #733975
kootchmanMemberjj… facts are not your strong suit. When the federal government wants a private company to do something… something it won’t do because there is no payback or rational reason … they give a tax offset… or subsidy. Like… they want to support housing…so you get mortgage interest deduction subsidy… as domestic oil exploration plummeted… balance of trade deficits soared, the feds wanted to direct the activities for R&D…new exploration methods.. ie fracturing..horzontel boring,… it is not a greedy rapacious subsidy… why drill domestically when you can drop a vertical bore hole in “take your pick” middle east country. Big Oil did as they were asked… by the tax code. When you have, as we did … $22 per barrel oil.. why extract and recover $85 per barrel domestic reserves..? Ain’t ya glad they were so successful? North Dakota is ecstatic. See Bakkan Formation… 11 billion barrels..not bad. Marcellus Shale Reserves… the feds are going to recover that subsidy and much much more…. it will put over a trillion dollars in the economy… reduce exchange deficit, enhance national security, add mineral extraction royalties to state and local governments… point being… “we” get the payback…. compare to “solar panels”…. subsidies. I say Big Oil spent wisely and well… this was an encouragement subsidy….sure would rather drill there than in deep water gulf reserves. How many billions did the feds take off the per gallon federal highway trust surcharge. We got a payback on this one. we may actually become energy independent because of it… small price to pay.
September 9, 2011 at 2:41 am #733976
jamminjMember“Like… they want to support housing…so you get mortgage interest deduction subsidy…”
that has NOTHING to do with the mortgage debacle this past decade.
September 9, 2011 at 5:33 am #733977
kootchmanMemberwell jj …. I think it does… but.. that is another argument….the point I was trying to make is… there are lots of subsidies out there… mortgage deduction is one of them… as an instrument to induce a financial behavior… it’s a pretty common tool of the tax code and congress… big oil was given that subsidy for a reason… to go forth and find new energy sources, and find ways to extract it. You are getting testy, testy…. would you not call a home mortgage deduction a “subsidy”? I am not arguing the merits of it.. Big Oil was perfectly happy and profitable importing crude…much of it from parts of the world that hate us.
September 9, 2011 at 5:40 am #733978
JanSParticipant“I think it does”…yes, once again, it’s just your opinion. You can think anything you want…like the earth is flat…it doesn’t make you right each and every time, now, does it?
State your beliefs, and stop telling people they’re flat out wrong…it’s unbecoming.
September 9, 2011 at 12:23 pm #733979
kootchmanMemberWell Jan I did state it… as my belief. The actual discussion was… subsidies and government policy .. using the former to induce a behavior from the private sector. Old as dirt strategy. In this case, oil exploration, it actually worked. Diverting revenues and taxable income from private enterprise is hardly “big oil” being rapacious… big congress did it. Diverting private taxable income to mortgage deduction subsidy has been a fact of life since before dirt. Accepted and it was a relatively stable market for over 50 years..restrained and conservative… Jan? BTY who the hell appointed you hall monitor? I take my shots… you are again so highly selective…
“State your beliefs, and stop telling people they’re flat out wrong…it’s unbecoming”. That generally gets a KMA RSVP…. consider it sent. But do continue to post as you see fit. I won’t tell you what to do.
September 9, 2011 at 1:22 pm #733980
kootchmanMemberSorta nice to see American land owners getting leases and royalties instead of the House of Saud…nice to see American drilling equipment being exported again to the world, Americans trucking, building pipelines, US States rebuilding roads, schools… and it was a strategic blessing to Europe, particularly central and eastern Europe who now have an option to Soviet geo-energy foreign policy… crude gas and oil payments overseas were the single largest drain on all of us… 3 million barrels per day of oil products… 10.5 million barrels crude imported per day… imported products are refined or distallates.. so figure they cost more… Our total trade deficit 2010….. 293 billion was petroleum… our entire trade deficit with China was 274 billion…with Canada also a large NA producer , the value added refining done in USA refineries by USA workers… our energy independence would add a staggering boost to the US economy… Imagine… shipping LNG to both China and Japan both of which are net importers… and far cleaner than coal … it’s starting to look like those R&D and exploration tax breaks were stunning successes… there are two side to this story… we lead the world in extraction technologies…again! I am thinking TDE…in the medium term… those lost tax revenues went to great use… the total recoup time is less than a decade…and …. uncounted… the lowered consumer prices and freedom from OPEC cartel pricing… short term billions… for long term trillions… good deal. From the global perspective…food grains previously diverted to ethanol…lowers food prices … a hugh boon to the third world. And we can drop those ethanol subsidies too… the only thing that makes ethanol viable.
Now if you are a solar wind mill purist.. it’s the devil incarnate…
September 9, 2011 at 1:23 pm #733981
redblackParticipantkootch: every time you post, it becomes more and more obvious that you don’t care about your country, and you keep asking what your country can do for you. i mean, i appreciate your military service and all, but that doesn’t give you the right to advocate tearing down our government or the things it does. yeah, it’s imperfect and it needs improving – but not abolition. love it or leave it, pal. this is the greatest country on earth precisely because of our government, and i think reagan was being a traitor to his country when he talked about the nine most frightening words in the english language.
and you’re wrong about it all being about money. those checks you write every quarter are the price of admission to a free and functional society. but again, you are not entitled to value-added service for that money.
government is not a business, nor should it be run like one. for one thing, it operates with far less overhead and zero profits. in fact, it is forbidden from garnering profits. business, on the other hand, is solely about profits. government is about people. living, breathing human beings. all people – not just those who are ambitious, wealthy, able-bodied, or beautiful.
and while capitalism is indeed the de facto economic system in the u.s., it isn’t mandated by the constitution.
September 9, 2011 at 1:37 pm #733982
kootchmanMemberno it’s not… but nothing else has replaced it .. as efficiently. redblack… i love to pay taxes… there are things the government can do..that private enterprise can’t… and I don’t expect a ROI… c;mon dude… is there anything more wasteful than national defense? Aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines.. are not done at the county level.. BUT… I want to see the taxes used wisely, prudently, and when programs are done, aren’t working.. sunset them. We kept the national heliium reserve in Colordo for over a hundred years…. to keep a stock on hand to fill barrage ballons against tri-winged German Fokkers from strafing our WW 1 trenches at 500 feet and 130 mph…… that is the BS that drives taxpayers nuts..but I am going to take a stab…if it was union workers..you would keep it going. While government is not a business it does require business to create the wealth it needs. When a government model falters..only the taxpayer is the regulator. Nothing would please me more that to see us return to the top 95th percentile in math and basic literacy.. but.. we are slipping… farther and farther behind… those are structural problems.. and taxpayers should be very pissed off we are getting less and less for the bucks we spend. Read the history of Michele Rhee.. trash talking her are the teachers unions..yand she offered hugh salary increases… for merit! You cannot get the structural reforms with NEA standing only for the benefit of the members.. kids and education are not the highest agenda item..civil servants should have one master and one purpose…the taxpaying public getting from their taxes the value they deserve….Taking away the cookie jar? That they respond to. That;s our leverage… In simple terms… How long would you keep a job that cost you 100 more a week to go to than it paid? The USPS continues to lose money… it has been given loan gaurntees, new management, billiions in new equipment, … it has been thrown a life line for over a decade… and it IS a business… how long you going to keep them on life support? The got killed off by technology… now… there are two union membered replacements that can deliver mail …they are doing so right now.. USPS doesn’t advertise it.. but FedEx carries all their overnight, second day and priority mail… now. Thank them for their service, and close em’ up… they are a junk mail delivery service… I don’t want to support that. I see I am not the only one…the new campaign from USPS…”we don’t use tax dollars”… they are getting heat from a lot more folks than I… what they don;’t tell ya though..is the taxpayer is the co-signer… no mas
September 9, 2011 at 2:27 pm #733983
kootchmanMemberhere ya go redblack…. the President wants 450 billion in stimulus money…this is a few jobs…. this would have paid for the downtown tunnel and the new floating bridge… you are ok with this? This is billions of dollars. while it may not be a business…how many thousands of American taxpayers paid for this little oversight?
http://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2011reports/201141061fr.html
September 9, 2011 at 2:36 pm #733984
JoBParticipantkootch…
you keep talking as though government waste was something new the Obama administration brought to the table… but you know it’s not.
You talk as though the waste and fraud perpetrated and institutionalized by the last administration in 8 years can be cleaned out and tightened up in 3…
while our nation deals with the worst economic crisis our country has faced.
In many ways this is worse than what was once called the great depression.
you know that’s not realistic.
you would do away with essential public services all in the name of the tide of privatization that has perpetuated much of the wasteful spending you abhor.
come on now.
i get that you are angry. i am angry.
but it’s time to work towards viable solutions…
not more of the same policies that already sank the good ship lollipop.
September 9, 2011 at 5:37 pm #733985
kootchmanMemberJoB … I’ve been ranting on and on for years…. while jobs fell and life is getting tough… the government has grown 7% in the last three years. The thing is… it NEVER seems to get better… USPS is no longer an essential service…evidenced by the fact they can’t even meet their cost structures…let alone be moderately profitable. In fact… I don’t believe they should get a pink slip tomorrow… but it’s time to plan the exit and transition strategy. Heck… redblack might even be able to get a contract delivering third class junk mail.. I don’t expect all government agencies to even be low cost… I can’t figure out how teaching autistic kids would be “cost effective or efficient”… it is an essential service though. It’s the multi-billion dollar “goofs”… that seem to be taken in stride as “that’s ok”… The more centralized we get…the farther and remoter it all becomes…all centrally planned economies eventually collapse… look at our European friends… it’s a fair warning… and Germany just walked out of the EU Economic summit… pulling a kootchman… basically telling the rest of Europe .. screw you…. we aren’t buying your bonds to prop up your wasteful spending and lack of attention to fiscal discipline… since both they are we are similar sized economies… the parallel is pretty striking… substitute Germany for Tea Party and Euro Bonds for Treasuries…. Germany says we are not going to be the engine for a long, long train of passengers… ya think?
September 9, 2011 at 8:06 pm #733986
JoBParticipantkootchman…
the post office is not supposed to be profitable
it is supposed to deliver the mail at cost
a premise that once worked before a group of people decided they could benefit financially from privatization and started lobbying to enforce strictures that would essentially cripple the post office so much that it could not meet it’s mandate
the US mail is still an essential service to both those without internet resources and to those who depend upon the US mail to deliver essential documents.
Spend some time in other countries and you are rapidly reminded how essential the ability to send a letter and expect it’s timely delivery is to our way of life.
As for your analogy…
Someone needs to remind the Germans that they had a fair hand in the economic collapse of their neighbors…
before we have to remind them once again of much more:(
Might does not make right regardless of whether we are talking of economic or military might
perhaps this is a more apt analogy than i thought at first glance since the Koch brothers and their buddies who set the tea party agenda have successfully moved the wealth that once sat in the pockets of the middle class into their own are now saying they don’t want to fund the economic engine they had a huge hand in crippling…
but hey… privatize your public services for us so we can access what is left of the public resource pool…
Yup.. there are apt comparisons here.
you really are too smart to buy that
September 10, 2011 at 12:09 am #733987
waynsterParticipantHmmm Kman it was GE and GM now its USPS is there more we should know about. Haven’t seen wal mart or the koch bro industries… thats ok they are GOP darlings along with South Carolina. What about the your wall street buddies…forgot they didn’t get us in this mess it was the middle class we borrowed to much…. so much hate are you sure your not living in northern Idaho or Northwestern Montana with all the rest government hating zealots….?
September 10, 2011 at 2:50 pm #733988
redblackParticipantyou’re right, kootch. there is a lot of waste and fraud, like your link above. but you and a lot of teabaggers are looking at fundamental, structural institutions like USPS and calling it wasteful because it doesn’t operate like fedex.
but I am going to take a stab…if it was union workers..you would keep it going.
no. i would advocate for turning that facility into something useful, possibly expanding it, and putting some people to work.
yeah, the president wants $450 billion in stimulus, and i hope he gets it. he probably won’t – unless republicans can find a way to get that money into the hands of their campaign donors instead of the states.
September 10, 2011 at 3:19 pm #733989
jamminjMemberThe wars in the mid-east have/are costing us 9.7Billion a MONTH, but its the USPS thats holding us down…uh huh -whatever.
There are many that had no problem in rebuilding Iraq, but when it even comes to disaster relief for our own citizens, they just don’t give a damn.
I guess we would rather build the iraqi’s post office than fund ours.
September 10, 2011 at 3:34 pm #733990
jamminjMember“9.7Billion a MONTH,” in mid east…
this is an example of when operations are handed off to PRIVATE enterprises to the likes of Haliburton, KBR, Blackwater, L3 Titan, CACI, etc.
why do we want to keep on repeating mistakes.
September 10, 2011 at 3:55 pm #733991
metrognomeParticipanthey kootch, try putting a 44 cent stamp on a REALLY important piece of mail and drop it in a FedEx or UPS box and see if it gets delivered. The Post Office guarantees next day delivery within a pretty large area if it is picked up by 5 pm … Fed Ex standard overnight cost is nearly $26 (I used from zip 98136 to zip 98125, well within the PO guarantee area.) And they don’t offer quotes for ‘packages’ in ounces. Plus, they don’t deliver on Saturday.
Okay, your turn.
September 11, 2011 at 2:31 am #733992
kootchmanMemberYou certainly can get Saturday Fed Ex delivery…get it all the time. You know why the Post Office offers that wonderful guaranteed service? Here I will let you read the actual comparisons by a business owner who uses a mix of services.
http://mywifequitherjob.com/what-is-the-cheapest-shipping-option-usps-fedex-or-ups/
Some guarantee…. if I HAVE to get it there… FedEx is more reliable. Big deal.. the USPS has a claim process if they miss the deadline…which they do in my experience about 50% of the time…I get $10 back while a critical contract or spare part costing hundred or thousands is delayed..So .. why is it that USPS pays FedEx over a 1.3 Billion a year to ship for them? If it really is critical.. I can track FedEx point by point..updating my customers or clients… ever try intervening and site holding a package with USPS..FedEx can and does. Which goes to what is REALLY important. It is an inefficient, money losing entity.. with a huge duplication of carbon foot print and environmental degradation. And what will happen… here comes the National Helium Reserve all over again… ? Regulator says USPS could use taxpayer subsidy
“…The chairman of the commission that regulates the U.S. Postal Service said Tuesday she supports a taxpayer subsidy for the financially strapped agency to survive. …”
The axiom… if ya want more a given behavior..subsidize it.
And finally…. this is the Post Office…
http://about.usps.com/news/national-releases/2011/pr11_wp_workforce_0812.pdf
UNLESS they get the productive tax paying public to subsidize it… they have done the math… their conclusions in my opinion support the case for euthanasia … painlesss as posssible…. but quick. I thought all the liberals were “green”?… we should be discouraging 3rd class mail as a national policy instead of subsidizing it. Ask a bulk mailer… less than 2% of mailers get a response…sooo it has to be cheap..and hundreds of millions of energy units for pulp, fuel, consumed. etc… cause you have to reach thousands for ine customer…and then…for the hundreds of thousandsI who the bulk mail never appealed to? WE pay for trash removal…and the landfill costs…shifting the bulk mail subsidy further to the taxpayer. Ever consider rolling into you calculations the cost of disposal of bulk mail as part of your USPS cost model? I get plenty of coupons and ads… heck it’s the business model of WSB… advertising dollars,,via the net’. If USPS charges the revenues it needs to for it’s first class and parcel services..to meet expenses and invest in modernization…. not to worry… they will be far more expensive than FedEX or UPS in short order.
September 11, 2011 at 5:54 am #733993
JanSParticipantand what would Fed Ex or UPS charge me for sending a letter, a card to someone? And will they pick up without me having to ask them? Just askin’….
September 11, 2011 at 6:15 am #733994
JanSParticipantSeptember 11, 2011 at 9:42 am #733995
kootchmanMemberE mail them, e-card them? If I have to be taxed more so you can send a card… ?! It’s an obsolete technology.. it’s a wasteful technology, it’s an expensive business model. Emily Post can adapt. JanS it only the old farts like us who write letters… kids sure don’t..Eventually there is a point where choices have to be made. How much did it cost ya to post today? We are keeping moribund programs alive at the expense of progress.
from a dicussion board
“Correct. UPS and FedEx both carry Priority and Express Mail and also First Class packages. Lots of eBay stuff, I’m sure. Anything that isn’t a letter is either flying UPS/FedEx (if a fast service) or going by truck (parcel post, media mail).” Amazingly… grandma and grandpa actually correspond with the critter more.. via the senor center or library.they can archive them and reread them…they can adjust the fonst size t their vision acuity… and get pictures, video… far more than my parents did.
And due to airline security… as to not mix passengers and bombs… any first class mail over 1 lb is sent via FedEx on a non-passenger FedEx plane. It’s a junk mail service… it is that irrelevant to a modern economy. It’s down to the basics again… subrogate national interests to special interests.. in this case postal worker unions.
Just visited a customer on Friday… most of their professional design work is in the far east… their staff … verrrry international now… 1) they can’t find enough engineers domestically, 2,) they can’t find multilingual professionals …. but USPS is looking for 10 billion in bail outs…while we have a high school graduation rate of less than 70 per cent and no mandatory second language instruction… hmmmm … where do you think ten billion should be spent? For the future of our economy and our national interests? I would rather give 2 year unenployment benefits… but ONLY if you are back in a trade school or contunuing ed. We have a surplus of unskilled labor.
September 11, 2011 at 10:11 am #733996
kootchmanMemberOur “investment” in Sollyndra? Get out the checkbook.. funny how the Obama fund raiser and bundler.. multiple White House sleepovers… George Kaiser… made the investment through Argonaut Ventures… once they had the federally backed loan guarantees… he hoped to make the killing on the IPO… well gosh.. the patent holder of the Solyndra technology himself said it was too expensive… here ya go read the story..
http://seekingalpha.com/article/211350-lessons-from-solyndra-s-failed-ipo
So another Obamanomics… pay off a donor “whale” ….make his “greenies” happy… and that is as far as they can think it out… the political payoff.. hell with the economics of it… that’s a taxpayer program… where we will rail against the reach and greedy… who don’t pay their fair share. Making another constituent happy… a trifecta payola! Meanwhile… investors looked at the IPO…the company, the products… and said hell no! and the IPO was pulled. “Ya call THAT an investment?”.. Now what was the Seattle Public Schools budget? that was over a half of a billion wasted.. stimulus dollars.. and he is coming after more? Again? At least when BIG OIL is told to invest their own money…for a tax credit.. they come up BIG TIME…. huge discoveries of oil and natural gas…over 150 patents on new boring technologies, new hydraulic concrete technologies… and not ONE DIME of taxpayer liability. Sheeesh…
September 11, 2011 at 4:07 pm #733997
jamminjMember“If I have to be taxed more so you can send a card… ?!”
yet we are paying so corporations don’t have to pay any taxes and also receive subsidies. Again the average joe is left out in the cold, higher mailing rates, etc. in your tiresome rants.
again, if we weren’t in the mid-east spending billions monthly, we can pay for services that help the average joe, small businesses… but instead of asking big business to pull up the slack… it’s always the middle class being attacked.
Most small businesses rely on the USPS, but your idea is for already businesses with limited resources to pay for higher rates via fedex.
As well as putting thousands of workers out of work, you also want to hurt the backbone of our work force, small businesses – all just to bow down to more big corporations.
No thanks.
September 12, 2011 at 1:46 am #733998
JanSParticipantyeah, K-man…and eCard is soooo personal..
you didn’t answer my question. I want specifics. What will they charge me to come get a letter automatically, 6 days a week, from where I live. USPS does this now. I want to know what Fed-Ex, etc., would cost, since you’re so high on them.
I live in the real world. It does not involve everyone being efficient in computer technology. Some things still move the old fashioned way.
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