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September 23, 2011 at 12:30 am #734049
JanSParticipantoh, for cripes sake…go after the junk mail makers, not the USPS….
September 23, 2011 at 12:31 am #734050
JanSParticipantor are they too Big Business for you..those big businesses that are the “job creators”..because it’s “just business”…
September 23, 2011 at 12:44 am #734051
JoBParticipantkootchman
what albatross?
get a grip… mail carriers as a small business model?
and what.. exactly do you do about your mail delivery when they go banco?
reliability is why it’s important to keep the US mail as a “federal non-profit business”.
It provides a reliable service to the residents of the United States.
September 23, 2011 at 2:41 pm #734052
redblackParticipantkootch: according to the GAO, first-class mail provides 2/3 of USPS’s revenue. for various reasons that include a weak economy, first-class volumes are down.
furthermore, USPS is not allowed to raise rates beyond the rate of inflation, and that includes rates on third-class mail.
we/they should change that. raise the first-class rate to $.50; $.75 for oversized letters. tell the bulk mail lobby to go screw itself and raise their rates to cover the cost of dealing with that crap, plus cover a share of USPS’s many expenditures, including retiree benefits and the use of additional fuel needed to move the weight of bulk paper.
it seems to me that $.44 is damned cheap for the cost of mailing a letter. because out of that cost you pay over 500,000 employees, maintain the country’s biggest (and, comparatively, most efficient) vehicle fleet, and provide universal postal service to every corner of the republic.
now, if USPS were a truly private business, what would they do? cut services and costs? reduce their market share?
hell, no! they would raise rates. it’s what every other business in america does when it’s faced with increasing costs. but unfortunately, USPS is not allowed to do that.
for someone who thinks government should be run like a business, kootch, you set some ironically high and arbitrary goals for government services.
September 24, 2011 at 9:23 am #734053
kootchmanMemberThey can and are supposed to raise rates to meet the costs of doing business. Since UPS, and UPS already carry most of the 1st class mail and are paid to do so… you are paying twice now. Sorta like what the federal government does… taxes ya a buck, rakes off the top, then sends it back to the state who rakes a little more off the top, until finally..the end service is delivered… with some very diluted dollars… but gosh.. you sure gave all those parasites at every level some juicy benefits and retirement packages…. packages the poor tax payer will never see. Invest in the future… not the moribund past. The Post Office has been losing to internet, FedEX, UPS… modern,efficient, reliable,….
September 25, 2011 at 3:03 am #734054
JoBParticipantkootch..
where do you get this pay twice stuff?
we pay once… the USPS simply subcontracts…
if it was private business
you would be cheering
September 25, 2011 at 5:43 pm #734055
redblackParticipantThey can and are supposed to raise rates to meet the costs of doing business.
no, kootch. by statute, USPS is forbidden to do that.
at some point in their past, revenue from stamps was enough to cover USPS’s outlay. since stamps are dirt cheap, raising the cost to cover increased expenses – but not faster than the rate of inflation, as the law says – makes it difficult for them to keep up. they’re fighting the private carriers and technology with one arm tied behind their backs, so to speak.
imagine telling a private business that it was forbidden to raise rates beyond some arbitrary number. unthinkable, right?
furthermore, the reason USPS is facing crisis is that they are rapidly approaching their debt ceiling ($15 billion) after 4 straight years of budget deficits.
USPS is solely funded by people and businesses who use their services. the only time taxpayers fund USPS is when we have to cover their debt obligations.
now, go ahead and argue that USPS employees are leaches and that they don’t deserve enough wages and benefits to keep them in decent food, health care benefits, and shelter.
then i’ll have free rein to go on a tirade about the cost of some private company’s services – comcast! – and demand that they lower their employees’ wages and slash their advertising budget just so that i can save a few bucks on my cable bill. and i can yell about how my tax dollars allow them to maintain their local monopolies on cable internet and tee vee. hell, lower my cable rates – or my mortgage, or my cell phone bill, or my insurance – and maybe i’ll go out and create some jobs with that extra money!
September 25, 2011 at 6:39 pm #734056
oddrealityParticipantNot every investment is designed to make money. Not even the stock market guarantees that. The USPS is a fabulous investment in social structure.Unless you want to subsidize computers and internet for people that can’t afford either so they can pay their bills~ and you probably would have to pay someone to help the elderly pay their bills online ~then the USPS is serving it’s very good purpose.The disabled functional that live alone and can manage a check book may not be able to manage the oft confusing online world. On a personal level I enjoy getting the magazines and catalogs I order and the occasional card that is sent. I never look at E-cards…Hate them.I do not ever want to live my entire life on the internet or have all my information out there…even a darn card viewable to others if they are good hackers.
Not to mention sunspots taking the internet out or some government shutting it down for whatever reason. Nope, give me the good old fashioned postal service. It’s a good thing and not designed to make tons of money. Not everything is about making money and being profitable..sometimes it is about our social structure and making life better.The USPS does that for most of us.
September 25, 2011 at 7:38 pm #734057
JoBParticipantSeptember 25, 2011 at 8:14 pm #734058
kootchmanMemberIt WAS… so was the pony express… I am so sick of these bullshit red herrings about “feeble: seniors being mystified by computers, when in fact those over 50 years old are the largest owners of PC’s… Great.. love those catalogs… order them, and pay for them and cover the costs of enjoying them. Indeed redblack… the mandate of the Postal Systems is to have rates reviewed, adjusted, and increased by the Postal regualtory Commission… as needed to meet their definition as a non-profit… you pay twice because as FedEx and UPS are the primary carriers of USPS mail… you ARE paying for two sets of overheads… that is one middleman too many. What is pissing off the Postal Workes… is they are being required to fund their own pension system, keeping it solvent and current… and not in perpetual deficits and underfunded..as every other government retirement system does. And we all know who has to step up to the plate when governments can’t meet their pension promises… eh?
September 25, 2011 at 8:49 pm #734059
JanSParticipantKman…do you own stock in FedEx and UPS? Sure does seem that way. I have elderly parents. My mother is 80 % blind. She is not computer savvy. My father uses it, but doesn’t quite understand it. He’s always pushing the wrong button, or deleting something he shouldn’t, and he pays through the nose to have someone come help him and fix things. You are off base. It’s not a one size fits all country. Get over it…move on to the next complaint – lol. You seem to have quite a few ;-). Maybe the USPS is an albatross around your neck, but it’s not to many others ! And, yes, I would gladly pay more for a stamp.50 cents…75 cents…bring it on.
September 25, 2011 at 9:14 pm #734060
oddrealityParticipantKootch…
The postal service still is the Pony Express…it is what the Pony Express morphed into over time. A more automated,more efficient [haha] postal service that uses autos instead of horses..Same idea on a much grander scale.
I do pay for my catalogs by buying items via them that I would likely not otherwise buy that helps keep those businesses IN business.You are for business succeeding aren’t you?? It is all paid for and not by you.Same with my few magazines. I pay for the magazine,the magazine providers pay the postage,the PO employees do the sorting and delivering and get a fair wage and we are all happy…except you….not sure how we can fix everything to work how you would like. Too many of us still prefer other methods.Maybe in about 20 years when we 60ish folks get really old and forced into doing/having every single aspect of our lives online….. then you will have it how you want [and I think you will wish it were not so.I hope to be dead by then.:)]
Some young people out there are not all that fond of giving up all privacy and living online either so there may yet be a bit of a fight…
FYI I just turned 60 ,been on the internet for 13+ years and doing just fine .My siblings do fine also on the internet but they frequently have to call me to help them out.Not that they are feeble just not that interested in the details.I am so they call me.Same with my friends. The people I know that are much older often ARE feeble and do have a hard time and do not understand all of the complexities of the internet.Nor do they want to. My mother could NEVER function on the internet..she can barely understand the channel changer for her Comcast cable.Apparently not everyone is a genius like those of us posting here.LOL I can tell you for certainty that the older I get the more I want to go back into the real world where real people live and speak face to face instead of so much online interaction .It’s way more fun to laugh with a real friend than over a note left on a glowing web page.Not that online interaction does not have it’s place, just not all the time.It’s not healthy.:)
Oh..and yes, I would also be happy to pay bit more for postage .
September 25, 2011 at 9:19 pm #734061
oddrealityParticipantForgot..my dad was on the internet very early on.He was a very good businessman and always liked new technology. But by the time he was in his late 70’s he had been diagnosed with dementia and no longer would have been able to function there.He just no longer could think as well as he used to. It happens to many,many people Kootch..maybe even you one day.You may start out knowing how to do things but sometimes it slowly gets away from you.Then you need some help or an easier way.Just life Kootch,just life.
September 26, 2011 at 2:35 am #734062
JoBParticipantkootch
in spite of the fact that i am on the internet nearly every day
even though i often pay online
my bills don’t get paid unless someone sends me a paper copy
if i don’t see it in my bill paying pile and it isn’t automated I no longer know it exists
I’d automate everything, but I don’t really like the idea of giving some company permission to dip into my bank account
so if i can’t automate it easily through my bank with a consistent payment
it doesn’t get automated.
and i’m not a day over 62 and 135 days or so
give or take a day or a week for miscalculations
i don’t have a calculator handy and don’t know how to pop out of this page to find the one that must be on here somewhere
confused as i am
i am pretty sure i am still smart enough to know that it would cost me a lot more to pay someone else to monitor and pay my bills than it does to receive them by mail
Velonut
Ha! i manged a post without ellipses
inelegant
but for you almost anything :)
***
anyone else got a bitch designed to make my day more difficult?
September 26, 2011 at 4:43 pm #734063
redblackParticipantkootch: you’re kind of making my argument for me. it’s private sector contracting that’s breaking government budgets.
USPS should sever that big, juicy contract they handed fedex for express and priority mail as soon as possible. it requires USPS volumes to increase on fedex’s planes over time; but if it doesn’t, USPS still pays the fully-contracted amount, which is as much as three times what USPS pays commercial airlines to move mail. that contract brings fedex billions in revenue, but it has cost the USPS hundreds of millions since 2001.
nonetheless, taxpayers are on the hook for red ink caused by that contract only insofar as it relates to USPS’s overall debt. no one is paying USPS twice for anything.
not saying the USPS isn’t mismanaged. they could and should curtail the irresponsible subcontracting. (as should hundreds of other government agencies.) but that isn’t the fault of the letter carriers and their “cadillac” wages and benefits, nor is it a reason to dismantle USPS.
in fact, it’s the private sector that’s destroying USPS from within the management side, because they can’t compete with USPS’s prices or service – despite the “high” wages of letter carriers.
all you have to do is look at where former postmasters general are now employed to see what’s happening. it’s kind of like when congress critters become lobbyists when they leave public service. or hiring james watt as secretary of the interior. or putting foxes in charge of the chickens.
October 1, 2011 at 9:41 pm #734064
kootchmanMemberSure I am redblack. First the government “budget” is my money. IF the USPS severed that “juicy” contract…. just how do you think all that first class mail, priority mail, is going to get delivered? William Boeing himself .. he got started with an air mail contract. Anytime you have “middlemen” in a business transaction…you pay more. Everyone gets a cut. Some contractors..they buy direct for mortars stucco, etc… they are big enough and they can pay their bills on time. Most are not, and do not so they have to shop at distributors. Trust me dude.. the latter pays a lot more.
It is not the “fault” or the “blame” of the letter carriers. I never said it was. I said… they have an old, moribund, dysfunctional, and unprofitable business model. Fix it or, close it. The clock is ticking. Raise rates. carry only first class mail, downsize, sell off assets. Did you think after ..what?.. 30 years of general public acces o the internet the post office would stay the same size? It got overwhelmed by technology. It is called progress..keeping it on life support is not. BTY.. FedEx, UPS?… they used to be required by law to charge MORE than the Post Office…and Forbidden to carry first class mail… an ya know what happened? Without competition and pressure to reform… by the time USPS smelled the roses that technology was rolling them over… the roses are a funerary arrangement.
October 1, 2011 at 10:21 pm #734065
elikapekaParticipantForgive me if it’s been brought up before in this thread and I missed it, but I just found out about an interesting little tidbit. USPS ships live chickens, bees, insects and some cold-blooded critters. UPS and FedEx won’t take them. Lots of small businesses use this service.
You know, sometimes as a society we do things for public good instead of just profit.
October 1, 2011 at 10:48 pm #734066
kootchmanMemberRight you are. Is it worth 10 billion? And, it usually, though not always, involves “exotics”… for pets. It is not the backbone of agribusiness. UPS does accept bees.
October 2, 2011 at 1:19 am #734067
JoBParticipantkootchman…
is the right of every American to have access to public information and private information whether or not they can access or utilize digital information worth 10 billion?
yes, it is.
We the people pay for it.
We the people should get benefit from it.
Not just some of the people..
but all of the people.
October 2, 2011 at 5:25 pm #734068
redblackParticipantwell, now that we’ve dispensed with the talking points, we can have a real conversation.
you said, “fix it or close it.”
i say we fix it.
why? because universal mail service is part of the deal. it’s a fringe benefit of being an american. want to time stamp a legal document? mail it to yourself for 44 cents. want to get ahold of your woolly, off-the-grid uncle in denali? send it to general mail in fairbanks. lots of good perks to society in having a functioning postal service.
before the fedex contract, USPS used commercial airlines’ baggage holds to move mail, which i think is a great idea, and it has worked well to the mutual benefit of USPS and the airlines for – what? – 75 years? before that it was freight and passenger trains.
now, you say USPS is antiquated. well, let’s get some universal broadband going, and get USPS involved in connecting people electronically on that backbone.
October 2, 2011 at 10:28 pm #734069
JoBParticipantredblack…
great ideas
maybe we could just roll back that congressional interference in funded pensions to let the USPS be competitive with say UPS which has no such federal mandate…
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