- This topic is empty.
-
AuthorPosts
-
September 16, 2011 at 9:31 pm #734024
kootchmanMemberLike all sponsored GSE’s… it is your US Treasury that allows them to borrow. Of course they don’t want to fully fund their retirement and insurance plans… taking a page out of the WA State playbook… short the funds so they can run pension deficits through the roof… but not to worry..right? Pension Benefit Guaranty Fund will step in… no thanks. Jans they owe the Treasury 6 billion as of Sept 30th… that would be our money. As of this week they can’t make the bean. Puffington Post eh? Let me get this right jj…. USPS already uses FedEx for everything over two lbs. and first class air mail… FedEX ain’t doing it for free… so you are paying for TWO systems now…. that is more cost effective than paying for ONE? Interesting concept. You aren’t doing the middle class any favors by staying mired in old systems and methods… to protect the obsolete. We have a poorly skilled work force..to much labor. Now if that is the economic weapon you want in the 22nd century.. we will fall farther and farther behind… productivity increases does not mean working everyone harder… it means investing in things that allow us to do more with the things we invest in. Yep Iraq was a bust from the get go. Said it over and over many times.
September 17, 2011 at 6:40 pm #734025
dawsonctParticipantDo you own stock in FedEx, Kootch?
My guess, is that it costs us all a lot less money to purchase parcel shipping in bulk from FedEx than it would if each citizen was required to do so on their own.
But saving money through collective actions is SOCIALISM!!!! So I guess I understand why you are so invested in this easily corrected non-issue.
September 18, 2011 at 4:21 am #734026
JoBParticipantkootch..
you assume everyone has access to a computer and has a checking account or credit card that would allow them to pay bills via a computer.
that isn’t so.
but lets just assume that those without resources will take care of themselves…
WHAT ABOUT ME?
The mailman visits my home every day and he brings mail that is crucial to my ability to function.
Explain to me why I should not get written reminders that my bills are due or that the city has decided to create a water project on my street and will be drilling or that the garbage collection regulations have changed …
or receive my ballot in the mail so i can vote no for the idiots who want to do away with the post office?
Tell me exactly what public service costs me less and functions as well once it is privatized.
The big lie is that big business does it better.
they don’t.
but they sure do make it more profitable.
September 18, 2011 at 4:24 am #734027
JoBParticipantwaynster…
yes, you would enjoy sitting down with Kootch…
even if you talked politics.
i have.
we’ll both be at the Nickelsville B-day party
thankfully we aren’t the featured entertainment ;-)
September 18, 2011 at 5:04 am #734028
waterworldParticipantOne of the things missing from Kootchman’s analysis of the US post office is an appreciation of the underlying basis for mandate of the constitutional congress of 1792. It wasn’t simply that the founders thought a national postal service would be a good idea, it was that they believed it was absolutely essential to making a constitutional democracy function. The Post Office Act of 1792 was one of the very first acts of the US congress. During the debates, James Madison lobbied for FREE mailing privileges for newspapers. Talk about a subsidy — the founders realized, correctly I think, that without a vibrant fourth estate, government would not truly be held accountable to the people. And they knew that a free press is meaningless if journalists cannot deliver the news directly to the people. Not only that, both Madison & Jefferson recognized that the newspapers that mattered most were not the big ones; the small papers are most likely to represent dissident views and those were the voices that most needed to be heard. So they made sure that it would be possible for small presses to mail their newspapers to their readers. Had it not been for Congress’ willingness to support newspapers with cheap mailing rates, those tiny publications that served subscriber bases of just a few hundred people would never have survived, and those communities would not have had access to vital information. To people like the founders, that was intolerable.
.
Due to Madison’s insistence on low rates for delivering the news, the vast majority of what the USPS delivered, by both weight and volume, was newspapers, all they up through the nineteenth century. Little tiny local newspapers. This was the primary means by which the people were able to keep tabs on their government.
.
It’s not at all clear to me that killing the post office would serve the public interest. Kootchman isn’t refuting that the postal service is still the most efficient form of delivering mail. (By efficient I mean both effective and affordable for everyone.) I get it that he doesn’t want to be on the hook for the cost of delivering junk mail, but I see that as shortsighted selfishness. The fact that Kootch is willing to pay more (with FedEx or UPS) or use an electronic means of communicating doesn’t mean that the post office has outlived its value in our democracy, does it? I’d hate to think my ability to know what’s going on in DC might depend on whether the internet is up and running, or depend on whether I can afford to pay for the equipment and the service. The internet is great, but it’s not free or even inexpensive. And from what I hear on public radio, it sounds like some governments do a pretty good job of shutting down access to dissident voices on the internet. (Amazing how American corporations are willing to assist with that. Tells you something about the intersection of capitalism and free speech.)
.
Shame on us if we a willing to sacrifice a cheap, virtually anonymous means of sharing information because it won’t pay for itself. Lucky for us that the founders understood that constitutional democracy is not self-executing; it must be examined and monitored and reined in constantly and the fourth estate is essential to that process.
September 18, 2011 at 3:37 pm #734029
kootchmanMemberWell, if the internet crashes, so does the Post Office. It is as reliant on the grid as any other systems including UPS and FedEx. Home delivery by the way, was started in Ohio… because the angst of waiting hordes and death notifications at the Post Office was deemed undesirable. Let’s see just how cheap it is. Let it raise rates to meet its congressional mandate to meet costs. It is a rapacious consumer of natural resources, and a first tier source of landfill fill. Get with the 22nd century where the future jobs are. Not in a 1792 model of horseback and wagon delivery. We keep pulping wood polluting water, consuming jet and vehicle fuels… and how ironically this week I get a bleached paper from Seattle Utilities (beaching being the big pupl milll pollution source) on how to recycle… I have yet to weigh it… but is suspect 10-20 per cent of my recycle load is USPS third class crap mail. Internet .. well let’s see.. Comcast has a lock on the city contract for internet service.. a letter at 1.00 per… verses a public library, community center, .. for free? No charge for a simple mail account?
September 18, 2011 at 3:43 pm #734030
kootchmanMemberBTY what 4th estate? More data and information is authored and distributed by e-transfer… by far. How’s the expression go? Free press is a great thing.. if you own the press. Ask the old postmaster himself.. Messer Franklin who owned the press and was the postmaster… that distributed the rag. The wonder o access denial is this… despite the most repressive efforts, governments have not been effective in shutting down e-information… shutting down a post office? No problemo.. opening letters, packages etc.. been done for years with or without warrants. It was cell phone video that got the Iranian street riots out… despite the best efforts to jam and shut it down.
September 18, 2011 at 5:34 pm #734031
JanSParticipantcorrect me if I’m wrong (as I know you will – lol), but, the junk mail that the USPS delivers. They just deliver it, right? They don’t print it, strong arm the people who are actually sending it, do they? So, wouldn’t your beef be towards those that do instead of killing the messenger?
September 19, 2011 at 1:36 pm #734032
redblackParticipantjan was referring to this comment, kootch:
It [the USPS] is a rapacious consumer of natural resources, and a first tier source of landfill fill.
no, it isn’t.
September 19, 2011 at 2:29 pm #734033
kootchmanMemberOh? Tell me then do 125,000 USPS vehicles run on fairy dust or fuel? Six days a week? Heating of the 34.500 post offices/lighting?
And like I have said before… if the USPS didn’t deliver the crap mail…it would not exist… one makes the other possible… sorta like a bank robber and the getaway driver… they are a team. You can’t opt out either… gotta protect that monopoly… the do not forward means it’s yours to dispose of. Since there are hundreds of crap mailers… and only one way it all gets here.. I am going for the choke point..
September 19, 2011 at 2:43 pm #734034
kootchmanMemberLightSquared… here it comes … another “investment”… from a “Bama Crony”… and oh mu gosh what a surprise… he had some money ties to LightSguared..as an investor..here comes that post presidency golden parachute…and.another campaign whale getting the hog shovel… and wow… triyng to get a major command 4 star to alter his testimony to the Armed Services Committee… to fit his political agenda, not a candid, honest appraisal to our congressional and senate members? At least the USAF has some ethics, This is the “open and transparant’ hope and change kinda thing we voted for? There is more coming… is there no shame?
September 19, 2011 at 2:53 pm #734035
kootchmanMemberJesus H…GM.. a 3 per hour wage increase.. from a company that was bankrupt and bailed out by the US Taxpayer… a union contract negotiated by the Obama car czar… ya think they could have held off on a wage increase until AFTER they paid the US Taxpayer back? I mean we rescued the company, the pension fund, and health benefits plan… what about the taxpayer? You want to raise taxes Mr Prez? Go after the GM loan… get that back first.. then maybe we can talk about a tax increase… you will piss it away just like you did the first go round… anyone note only union shops and campaign contributors are getting their noses in the trough? Ah yes… we have 22 per share stock…which we bought at 54…. that’s some good investing … and of course on news of the increased wages… GM loses 4 per cent …. who in their right mind would give these bozos another taxpayer dime? No more plans … please
September 19, 2011 at 3:09 pm #734036
TDeParticipantThe problem is, to the celebrated Mr. K, going after your choke point means the post office will actually have to open some mail to determine whether or not it’s junk… which brings up invasion of privacy issues and all that.
It would be like dissolving the internet as the choke point to get rid of spam. Better to go after the businesses who mail the junk mail, just like they’ve gone after spammers.
September 19, 2011 at 4:01 pm #734037
kootchmanMemberit is marked third class mail… or bulk mail rate…. right on the postage “chop” or meter print out…. why would they have to open it? My spam filter, while not completely fool proof works pretty good.. and my “delete” doesn’t require landfill use, or a postal worker to deliver it… and the price is great… a good value.
control, select, delete that wasn’t hard
September 19, 2011 at 4:51 pm #734038
TDeParticipantYes… “control, select, delete… ” and spam filters. One of the ways internet providers went after spammers.
There’s an interesting idea though, getting rid of all 3rd class mail. Businesses and politicians will have to find other cheap methods to advertise. I’ve actually gotten junk mail with first class postage on it, which I find amazing… but cutting out third class might be a start. Retains a smaller Postal Service with a more limited scope of service, which they are talking about anyhow, keeps delivery alive for those who don’t use the internet well and decreases output of energy resources.
Anyone see any downsides besides loss of jobs, which are coming anyhow?
September 19, 2011 at 5:02 pm #734039
kootchmanMemberTDe…. I’d go for that. it’s a fair compromise. Downsizes the PO to a business model that is/should be sustainable… at least the transition starts. IF junk mail went First Class… the size of the mailers would be reduced… to qualify as 1st class they would have to be smaller… and bulk mailing to tens of thousands for a measly 1% or less return would be cost prohibitive.
September 20, 2011 at 4:47 am #734040
redblackParticipantholy crap, kootch. you realize you’re advocating that the government stops giving preferential treatment to the advertising industry, right?
i’ll sign up for that. no third-class mail.
i find it ironic that your free market principles collapse when the free market annoys you – but i find it refreshing that you’re willing to choke off government subsidy to an entire (and entirely annoying) industry.
September 20, 2011 at 4:49 am #734041
redblackParticipantTell me then do 125,000 USPS vehicles run on fairy dust or fuel?
by the way, you’d never criticize private industry for the same indiscretions, would you?
[edit: and by the way, what the heck does “BTY” stand for? i’ve seen you use that in lieu of “BTW” a number of times. just curious.]
September 20, 2011 at 4:56 pm #734042
kootchmanMemberPrivate enterprise dies when it can;t meet costs… there is nothing free market about the post office… it’s a regulated monopoly. It wouldn’t exist with out the special protections it gets. redblack… if it gets an operating cost subsidy, special protections forcing me to accept a service I don’t want… nope it’s not free enterprise. The post office is annoying because it is not a free market principal. Like… GM and Chrysler are no longer free enterprises.. they should die. Ford is not a government subsidized enterprise… it is still a free market company. The government is giving preferential treatment to the post office… the bulk mailers…. are being subsdized to give the PO a life suport system. Yea… cut em off at charge em’ the actual costs of delivering the crap.
September 20, 2011 at 5:54 pm #734043
dawsonctParticipantJust wondering, since we have FedEx and UPS, as well as other private parcel services, how is the USPS a monopoly?
Also, do you know the service that takes parcel post packages to the very rural areas of our Nation? Places so remote, that corporations won’t make any money providing regular service?
Guess.
September 22, 2011 at 3:34 am #734044
JoBParticipantKootch…
i hate to repeat fact…
but the Post office is not a business
it is a service guaranteed in our constitution
and for a good portion of America
it is still an essential service
can you imagine any for profit business guaranteeing daily mail delivery?
you can’t even get English speaking customer service from most of them.
September 22, 2011 at 1:37 pm #734045
sydneyMemberWhat the ???? Free market my shiny metal behind!!!!
Markets are never free. There are always constraints including the environment, earth only having so much clean air, water and mineral resources. “Free” is as meaningful as “infinite”.
September 22, 2011 at 11:24 pm #734046
kootchmanMemberSeptember 22, 2011 at 11:28 pm #734047
kootchmanMemberBetter reread the postal charter … it is a business… a non-profit, but a business. It is NOT .. NOT a constitutional guarantee… you can read that section of the constitution too..Article 1, Section 8, clause 7…. it is “empowered… to create a postal service and the postal roads they would need…it is not mandated they do so….See Jefferson..who said in short” hell no…that is a state responsibility/..they are also authorized or “empowered” to grant me a letter or marque and reprisal… so i can go privateering and raiding… as long as the government gets a cut… but they aren’t going to give me one soon I suspect, it’s an empowerment not a right…. place a wager on it? OK sydney… since FedEx and UPS aready carry everything over two lbs AND all the priority mail…. clean air, clean water, and mineral resources.. are being used for junk mail? BTY…. FedEx and UPS are prohibited by law to deliver first class mail and charge a lesser rate … all to protect the USPS. That’s green?
September 22, 2011 at 11:37 pm #734048
kootchmanMemberHey redblack… get a grip… the bulk mail biz is subsidizing the post office… you got that one totally ass backwards… it is most of the revenue source of USPS…. and by the way… rates are protected by USPS to keep FedEx and UPS and any other private carriers from competing with them. I’d rather YOU bought a panel truck… paid the sales taxes, use taxes.. and you deliver the junk mail… and get the profits… you should have less overhead… and then you can fume when all those taxes you love so much become your albatross…
-
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.