politics of LGBT/straight exclusion

[Erik]

Flower – The last comment is for the thread, not the poster.

Share This

[missaudreyhorne]

I honestly just can’t believe someone brought this thread back and you are all arguing AGAIN.

Share This

[JoB]

JT, beachdrivegirl and NewResident

I speak for noone but myself… ever.

occassionally i say something that other people agree with… that doesn’t make me a spokesperson, ringleader, bandwagon or make my words “my way or the hiway”.

When i generalize, i speak of how i think it is.. the same as you do.

This personal animosity is just plain ugly… and it has no purpose.

JT

so let’s talk about assumptions..

“It’s ok to accuse straight people of intentions, motivations, and actions that aren’t true. It’s unnecessary to validate or withdraw the accusations.”

I am sorry, but i am not alone in not seeing it that way.

so.. we keep this up until someone apologizes to New Resident because she caused a fuss that ultimately made people uncomfortable and caused them to have to publicly state that they wanted their event to be LGBT inclusive?

that interpretation is giving her the benefit of the doubt.. which is becoming less and less likely for anyone to believe as this thread continues.

I am truly sorry this all has happened.. as i imagine everyone reading this is.. but i am not going to apologize for trying to either explain this or to end the nonstop accusations such as todays …

“For claiming to be such “tolerant”, “accepting” and “open” people, I sure don’t see a lot of backing those qualities up.”

One moral judgment after another based on whether or not i/we respond the way she expects….

frankly.. i am tired of the continued assault on my character… and i don’t feel so much like being patient about it this afternoon.

I agree that it is wrong to assume that

” Minority groups are not capable of being prejudiced themselves and do not require self examination.”

It is also wrong to assume that minority groups are being prejudiced when they wish to meet with members of their own group.

As for the assertion

“When challenged, close the conversation” …

have you noticed this is the 176th post on this thread… and that some people.. including me.. have taken a great deal of time and effort trying to answer questions and clarify points…

just when do you think it is appropriate to choose to bow out of a conversation that is going nowhere?

And FYI.. i didn’t close the conversation. i merely said i didn’t intend to engage in it any further.. and i don’t.

If we are looking for apologies here.. i suspect i and several others have been owed one for days.

i know that i am owed one today.

Share This

[meg]

Ok, NR. The yawn was in response to this old subject of “wah, I just don’t understand! wah” It is tired. And so very, very typical. So many people that are not part of a historically oppressed group “just don’t understand” and so very often that turns into I am just plain unwilling to understand. People don’t want to take part because it is tiring to continually educate people who don’t seem to be making an effort on their part to “get it”.

So, here we go:

“I can’t see how someone not understanding the need for a safe space translates into heterosexism.”

For you it seems more likely not trying at all to understand. Basically you are “allowed” to not understand because of heterosexism. You could CHOOSE to understand if you really tried.

“Couldn’t it simply be ignorance? Not fully realizing all the risks involved in being a member of the LGBTQ community?”

Yes, it INITIALLY could be ignorance. But, 1). you don’t need to “fully” understand the risks because you don’t live them….you just need to validate or ‘know’ that there are risks. And, 2). someone who truly wished to understand would respect the members of the group they are trying to learn about. And the ability to keep saying you don’t understand is privileged and is a choice to STAY ignorant. Ignorance is a choice.

Oh, and again….how are you so ignorant if you have many gay friends. Why aren’t you having this conversation with them?

“And if that is the case, which seems more likely than labeling it heterosexism, why wouldn’t the sharing of lives, experiences, fears and hopes be encouraged?”

If you are so in to sharing stories publically, on a forum, why don’t you please share your full story…your life, experiences, fears and hopes with us. How did you become who you are? What keeps you up at night? What worries you most in the world? What is behind your defensiveness? Please, an honest answer. You seem to really want the queers to step up and share their experiences. This is not a 1 way street NR where the queers are educating you with our varied stories. To be just asking us to educate you and help you understand…you are very “othering”. We are people, as diverse as any other group of people. None of our stories and backgrounds are the same. There is no single queer story or experience. Here is what I encourage: open up and try to learn, read something, research…. you seem so interested in this I guess I would just assume you would have done a ton of research. If you need suggestions of readings, but all means ask and I will provide them for you.

“I am, in no way, dismissing the need for safe spaces, I am just having a hard time accepting that when someone doesn’t understand that necessity, it is considered heterosexism”.

I think I covered that…

Share This

[flowerpetal]

Thanks Erik. I misinterpreted the profile. Still it is amusing that Shed22 surfaced and now seems to have gone away… to a place that I too should now go!

Share This

[beachdrivegirl]

Wow JoB I dont think I directed my comment at all towards you. I expressed an opinion that I think others that read this blog may feel too. I see a few people that cant seem to think there is any other way than there way to view ideas and subjects. I think it is flatout wrong and rude how SOME people treat others who have a different opinion than there own. For instance, how many people attacked House for his ideas, that often deferred from their own. All the time. THat is rude. By having a debate about the different ideas is healthy. If people dont like what is beign talked about dont read it. If people are going to talk sh** about antoher and disagree with anothers views and they cant handle the sh** when it comes back then you really probalby shouldnt be on a public blog. Feel free to apologize to me JoB for the accustations you chose to make.

Share This

[JanS]

dear beachdrive girl…you obviously had someone in mind when you said that there are people on here who feel that THEIR way is the only way…like NR? Because it seems that way to me…Like you? because it seems that way to me. You don’t have to agree with anyone…if you know yourself strongly enough, you should be just fine. No need to continually come down on JoB…we’ve covered that previously..she speaks for herself. It’s no better than someone coming down on House, which you object to, even if he is being snarky, and trying to rile things up.

I don’t see where an apology to you is needed…but then, that’s just me. You don’t like what you call “sh** being dished out to..who? you?, but feel it’s certainly ok to dish it back.

I think we ALL need to stop taking ourselves so seriously. No one is “right” and no one is “wrong”…it’s all opinion. NR needs to educate herself…there’s a ton of information on the internet, and in the library. And, she needs to, as her bf said, stop denigrating herself on here,i.e., I’m not educated. Get educated…you can read…do it. Just my opinion, of course. Education is everything.

BDG..time and time again, NR has singled out JoB. I know that JoB doesn’t need me to speak for her, but one can’t claim innocense, when it’s blatant. I think people in general have been more than patient to answer NR’s questions. And they HAVE been answered. Now it’s her turn to take responsibility and do her homework.

Damn, I keep having to go back in the hole..what a lot of work :)~

y’all have a great time on here, now, you hear? :)

Share This

[beachdrivegirl]

JanS-

“Well JT, some people consider it only there way or the highway, they are incapable of trying to understand anothers viewpoints or even the abilty to find a happy medium between differing positions. They do not realize the value of educating yourself through anothers eyes. ” -this was my post, it was directed at JT, and never ever metnioned JoB’s name it and then she posts a poor me posts…no i dont owe her an apology she chose to make something pesonal that is a personal choice. I think people chose to make bigger deals about everything. to me JT is a reasonable *smart* person. She was one of the first posters to post about off-leash dogs yet she accepted and read my off-leash rebutal post. That is what a mature diverse ADULT does. She also openly looked @ both sides of the strait vs LGBT thing and tried to coem up wiht a happy medium, yet some individuals on this forum have made it time and time again about how misreprsented the LGBT community is and ignore the questions and degrade opposign views.

“JT, beachdrivegirl and NewResident

I speak for noone but myself… ever.

occassionally i say something that other people agree with… that doesn’t make me a spokesperson, ringleader, bandwagon or make my words “my way or the hiway”.

When i generalize, i speak of how i think it is.. the same as you do.

This personal animosity is just plain ugly… and it has no purpose.”

This was a portion of JoB’s post to me. She tried to pull a poor me card out and put me the “bad girls” club. I called her out on it and am asking for an apology. I am not giving her one because in this thread I never made a post or comment directed towards hers. I cheered for those forum members I agreed with. Which being a minority on this forum is a hard thing to do. (Yawn..i know you all dont think i am a minority because i dont agree with you and you all are teh minorities but I disagreee.)

I agree that noone is right or wrong. But i think it is disrespectful to degrade opinions that differ from yours.

Share This

[JoB]

there is no poor me card.

there is the you are making fools of yourselves and making everyone uncomfortable while you do it and won’t you please stop card.

and with that, i end my conversation on this thread.

Share This

[beachdrivegirl]

Wow another accustation of me being a fool..you sure are good with those.

Share This

[Anonymous]

Oh my Heck!!

I go clean my bathroom and come back to find all this new information.

Ok, from what I can gather, somewhere I insulted JoB (what’s new?) I’m always being accused of that so I really should just go ahead and do it.

meg has decided that anything I want to learn about heterosexism I should find on the internet (because my supposed gay friends won’t enlighten me – Um, they’ve never used that term).

I am somewhat mentally disabled because I am trying to have this conversation that everyone else already knows everything about.

I am a pot stirrer because of all of the above.

You’re a member of the LGBTQ community (not like ANY I have ever met – here or where I moved from), but you are choosing not to help others see your views.

Hmmm, pretty much sums it up, IMO.

Great community of people, btw! Good luck with all the isms you face on a day to day basis – I wonder why that is????

This, actually, is all very funny. Can anyone else see the ridiculous irony here!!??

Ohhhh, didn’t think so.

Share This

[andrea]

Wow…I just tried to read this thread for the first time and I had to stop myself. I just can’t wade through all this vitrol. Seriously…I don’t think the lot of you realize how you come across on here to the outside reader-world. It’s as if some of the most self-absorbed, whining babies ever decided to have pouting parties because of things said in a open discussion web forum. Get over it. This is what the real world is like…

I know I don’t post on here that often anymore and some on here think that that perhaps precludes me from having a point of view on matters, but I felt the need to let say this because its saddens me to see great people reduce themselves to acting like this.

And JoB? She doesn’t need me to say this for her, but I feel I have to…I think she is one of the coolest broads around, whose pen is far mightier than any of your swords, and therefore, when and if I ever saw “she speaks for me” its becasue she does say everything so brilliantly.

Share This

[JoB]

now beachdrivegirl..

why would you think that was about you ;->

Share This

[beachdrivegirl]

Because you used my line it it about the poor me card.

I forgot one thing in my previous post. yes I often disagree and will talk about my disagreements to others. (So yes talking sh**) but I read the posts of those that respond in a polite, factual manner. I call people out when they are rude to me, but i do not whine and ask for apologies…(when I did above i was being sarcastic because the previous poster had asked for one when they didn’t need one.) i dont swear off the blog.

Share This

[soclwrkrinmotn]

What? Isms exist because people say stuff that other people don’t like? Or we disagree? No. It doesn’t work that way.

Folks, again, if we are to have a real dialogue, then stop with the accusations. I am wondering why the issue reopened when we discussed another meet up. I hope it was coincidence.

I happen to think JoB is the coolest lady, too.

And I also think NR and I need to talk and meet. (I do believe you are an ally, but you do realize that others in your political point of view think we should choke on hangers?)

JT, this is why I think humor was needed.

RS. I keep failing the litmus test. Have advice?

Share This

[Anonymous]

socl – Thank goodness you have reappeared!

I have consistently been more than eager to talk about everything with you at any get together (I couldn’t make the last one).

But, do you find it interesting that people are not able to discuss this topic on a neighborhood forum? I’m wondering why this issue provokes people so much.

I imagine that if I desired people to understand me and my lifestyle, I would want to share information with people who were asking.

Of course, I have not lived the life you have led and that could be a very ridiculous question, but could you please enlighten me as to why this cannot be discussed on a public forum?

P.S. I don’t know how many times I have to state that I am NOT a typical Republican. I have come to realize, socl, people see “Republican” and that is all they see (close-minded?????). Just throughout this thread there is constant mention of it….NOT ALL REPUBLICANS ARE THE SAME!!!!

Share This

[JoB]

andrea… and janS and everyone else who spoke up to say they appreciated what i had to say…

thank you

beachdrivegirl..

i did not call you a fool..

i told you that the card i was playing was the you are making fools of yourselves and making everyone uncomfortable while you do it and won’t you please stop card… not the poor me card.

if you think that pertains to you… then yes.. i suppose i was saying you were making a fool out of yourself…

as for leaving the blog.. i don’t intend to be chased off again.. but i also don’t intend to continue futile conversation…

and yes, this is futile conversation.

it’s too bad … because at one point this was engaging conversation.

Share This

[Anonymous]

JoB – I just want to point out that you are calling people fools.

I don’t think calling names is tolerated on this forum.

Also, IMO, I think constantly reminding everyone that you are “owed” an apology is a little futile and not conducive to engaging conversation.

Share This

[beachdrivegirl]

Well I dont think myself or anyone else here has made a fool of themselves. I enjoy the diversity. It educates me and makes me a better person.

Share This

[barb]

This whole “conversation” makes me want to scream SHUT UP out my window.

Share This

[Anonymous]

barb – the point is that there CANNOT be a conversation.

No one can seem to handle it.

Share This

[missaudreyhorne]

barb – I second that. I could shut the window, but I just can’t seem to look away.

Although some of the posts seem so irritated and heated that I can’t follow all the thoughts.

Here is what I want to know, after all this straight/lgbt/straight/lgbt arguing, is anyone really on a side other than those who support lgbt? I mean, REALLY? I think that is what I’d want to argue against, not whether or not some people can meet up if they want.

Share This

[Anonymous]

missaudreyhorne – I think everyone on this forum (the active members, at least) DO support the LGBTQ community.

I also think that it is very possible that, because people know I am Republican, they have made the assumption that I do not support the members of the LGBTQ community. I have been called a pot stirrer when all I was trying to do was understand.

If I was questioning the necessity of an exclusive get-together, does that mean I am projecting heterosexism? I couldn’t see how that made sense (after reading about heterosexism). I just wanted that correlation explained.

Share This

[missaudreyhorne]

NR – I think at this point a month later the fact that you still don’t seem to understand might give a message to people that you are arguing because you don’t think it is right. I’m not saying that is the case, but why are you still making a huge deal out of it? I just want to know.

I think you are right, the fact that you are a Republican does make people think that you are anti-gay, obviously because that seems to be a popular opinion amongst other Republicans. I just feel like continuing the argument (I’d say discussion, but I think it has gone beyond that at this point) perpetuates the incorrect thought that you might be “heterosexist”.

Share This

[Anonymous]

NR, as a gesture of goodwill, I think it would be really great if you converted right here and now. Just a little experimentation at first. Could be enlightening and educational. I’m sure you at least thought about it in your 20’s. What do say, want to try out a little democratuality? I know you’d like it if you just tried.

Share This

[Author]

Posts