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July 10, 2008 at 7:03 pm #627178
AnonymousInactivesocl – Where was “heterosexism” expressed on this thread?
If it was expressed and I missed it, I would like the opportunity to discuss with you that issue.
But help me find where to look.
July 10, 2008 at 7:35 pm #627179
soclwrkrinmotnMemberActually, it was on the other LGBTQ thread that got heated, and tied to the racism one too.
I will say this, NR, we all–just like the other “isms”–carry some vestages of this, LGBTQ or not. :) Therefore, I will say this, I am not refering to you specifically in this discussion, but rather, all of us. *shrugs*
Not any one person can carry the blame for any one bigoted aspect of society. All we can do is improve ourselves, and help those around us. The fact we are so heated about a simple meet up means we have a long way to go.
Come to a meet up and we can have a beer or coffee (i’ll buy) and share a order of onion rings or whatever…and discuss it.
Here’s a real general definition:
Heterosexism can be used as a term analogous to sexism and racism, describing an ideological system that denies, denigrates, and stigmatizes any nonheterosexual form of behavior, identity, relationship, or community. Using the term heterosexism highlights the parallels between antigay sentiment and other forms of prejudice, such as racism, antisemitism, and sexism.
Like institutional racism and sexism, heterosexism pervades societal customs and institutions. It operates through a dual process of invisibility and attack. Homosexuality usually remains culturally invisible; when people who engage in homosexual behavior or who are identified as homosexual become visible, they are subject to attack by society.
Examples of heterosexism in the United States include the continuing ban against lesbian and gay military personnel; widespread lack of legal protection from antigay discrimination in employment, housing, and services; hostility to lesbian and gay committed relationships, recently dramatized by passage of federal and state laws against same-gender marriage; and the existence of sodomy laws in more than one-third of the states.
July 10, 2008 at 7:40 pm #627180
AnonymousInactivesocl – Sounds great! I would really enjoy grabbing a beer with you!
I understand the definition of heterosexism, what I was wanting to see is where *you* felt that it was applied within discussions that have taken place here on the forum.
I wanted to see this so that I could better understand heterosexism.
I, too, am interested in having a conversation about this.
July 10, 2008 at 7:44 pm #627181
RSMemberWow. This is fun. JT, you said “I’m pretty damn tired of the self appointed blog spokesperson, explaining what each and every one of us feels, thinks, and means.” And yet, in your post 141 you “summed up” of what this thread was all about and criticized the rest of us for not jumping back in to hash out these issues again!!
You tried to provoke people into engaging in this discussion by basically saying “if you don’t respond it means that you’re okay with all these really negative things that I’ve interpreted to be the summary of this thread.” That’s not cool.
It’s a blog. People come here for different reasons, to fulfill different needs, and can and do drop in and out of the conversations at will. That’s just how it is.
July 10, 2008 at 7:53 pm #627182
soclwrkrinmotnMemberBasically, around the assumption that there is no need for a safe space (LGBTQ community only)because Seattle is “so liberal.” Alas, we still have hate crimes, and some folks are wanting a space to be “out” freely.
I don’t think a lot of the LGB are as closeted, but I know–as a member of that part of the community–there are some Ts that DON’T feel safe outing themselves. And by doing so, they feel at risk. Do you see? It could jeopordize jobs (in spite of the gender identity protections in place, it still happens) housing and personal safety.
With the original meetup, people wanted to find out WHO was in the community–and perhaps their comfort level to being “out” to the general community. But as was stated (by flowerpetal?) there is no litmus test. But RS said there was…I guess I flunked it.
And to paraphrase Zenguy (I think), we have a variety of interests, and not all of them queer. (my preferred term)
And on that, I am going to get some sun on my last bit of lunch.
July 10, 2008 at 8:04 pm #627183
charlabobParticipantI don’t believe this is going on again…yes I do. Seems to me we’re at the point where everyone should write hir own litmus test, take it, evaluate the grade, and do whatever (s)he feels like. Because we’re clearly not having, or encouraging, anything resembling a conversation. Or a dialog.
When we get to the point of chastising people for doing what we’re doing, and not even noticing the overlap — I don’t have a lot of hope. And YES I count myself in that crew. Sad…very sad! And completely unnecessary.
July 10, 2008 at 8:18 pm #627184
AnonymousInactiveRS, you misunderstand. I’m not criticizing anyone for talking or not talking. I’m criticizing those who DON’T wish to talk, for telling those who do, to stop.
I am commenting on the statements people do chose to make, because I started this thread, and therefore am an involved party. Is that not acceptable to you?
July 10, 2008 at 8:18 pm #627185
AnonymousInactiveI can’t see how someone not understanding the need for a safe space translates into heterosexism.
Couldn’t it simply be ignorance? Not fully realizing all the risks involved in being a member of the LGBTQ community?
And if that is the case, which seems more likely than labeling it heterosexism, why wouldn’t the sharing of lives, experiences, fears and hopes be encouraged?
I am, in no way, dismissing the need for safe spaces, I am just having a hard time accepting that when someone doesn’t understand that necessity, it is considered heterosexism.
charla – I believe that I am having a conversation.
July 10, 2008 at 8:32 pm #627186
RSMemberIt is all acceptable to me. Whatever. Go nuts. Enjoy the discussion!
By the way, in case anyone wasn’t sure on that whole litmus test thing, I was totally and 100% kidding!
July 10, 2008 at 9:14 pm #627187
charlabobParticipantRS — got that you were kidding. So was I.
July 10, 2008 at 9:26 pm #627188
AnonymousInactiveI find it interesting that so many members of the LGBTQ community, all of a sudden, want nothing to do with this discussion.
I thought the whole purpose of having a conversation was to seek progress, understanding and acceptance. From everyone.
For claiming to be such “tolerant”, “accepting” and “open” people, I sure don’t see a lot of backing those qualities up.
I feel discouraged because I am not a member of that community and, yet, I am interested in having a discussion about discrimination and other obstacles that are present in some of your lives.
No one else wants to have that discussion. How much does that say about the progress you wish to see in society?
If you aren’t willing to talk about these things on a neighborhood forum, don’t be that upset, then, when you feel that you are misunderstood, treated poorly or looked down on simply for being you.
Socl- I appreciate the conversation. I hope it continues.
July 10, 2008 at 9:39 pm #627189
BayouMemberNewResident, What questions do you have for the community? I know that some of us are obviously willing to have a conversation provided that it is a civil one.
July 10, 2008 at 9:46 pm #627190
KayleighMemberNewRes, maybe some of them don’t want to have the conversation….
HERE IN THIS FORUM.
WITH YOU OR OTHERS HERE.
RIGHT NOW.
The only sad thing about it is your continued manipulation of this thread.
July 10, 2008 at 10:06 pm #627191
ZenguyParticipantFunny, I think JoB said it very clearly on the last page and JT and NewRes completely ignored it. From my perspective I see more pot stirring and less actual discussion from you two. I am more than happy to share my persepctive of life in the GLBT community any time and on any subject if there is honest curiosity. I have to say I am not getting that feeling though.
July 10, 2008 at 10:13 pm #627192
AnonymousInactiveZenguy, I understand that JoB speaks for you. That’s all you manage to keep saying. When you’re done calling straight people attackers and pot-stirrers, please come back and share some of your experiences.
July 10, 2008 at 10:22 pm #627193
ZenguyParticipantSee, you don’t REALLY want to have a discussion! You just want to throw around accusations. Sad really we could have a great discussion and actually learn some things.
July 10, 2008 at 10:32 pm #627194
AnonymousInactiveWell, I believe that my post to socl (#158) was my questions and my concerns.
I felt that socl and I were having a conversation, a civil, interesting conversation.
I can’t understand why a conversation has to turn so heated so quickly. I think if everyone goes back and reads, you will see that socl and I were discussing important issues and there was no hostility or accusations.
I also can’t understand, Kayleigh, why you are still here since you continually seem to get more and more upset and, yet, have not participated.
July 10, 2008 at 10:34 pm #627195
megMemberNR- you say you want to “seek progress, understanding and acceptance” and then say “For claiming to be such “tolerant”, “accepting” and “open” people, I sure don’t see a lot of backing those qualities up”.
Really? Because if you will look back through each of the threads that continue (ad nauseum) I think you will see that people from both the queer and hetero world have tried to have discussions. If you truly are interested you would have seen that…unless you are just interested in being defensive and getting people riled up.
Oh, and then my favorite quotes: “How much does that say about the progress you wish to see in society?” and “If you aren’t willing to talk about these things on a neighborhood forum, don’t be that upset, then, when you feel that you are misunderstood, treated poorly or looked down on simply for being you.”
Seriously? You are seriously going to say that? Basically, you are saying that unless the queers want to continue the discussion then we deserve what we get? That we can just expect to be treated poorly? It is NEVER the job of the queers to help the straight girl understand or get it. Any more than it is a POC’s job to educate the whiteys on how racism works and its impact. Or impoverished people to get the rich to understand.
When have you expressed an actual and authentic interest in the stories of people on this forum/thread? People have pointed out things and you don’t respond to them or seem to miss them and then keep saying that you don’t understand and that people just don’t want to participate.
Get real. Get honest. Try, really, really, try to let go of your heterocentric privileged way of thinking and just stop. If you are interested….stand up and be an ally. Do some research on your own. Clearly you have the internet. Educate yourself about rascism and hetersexism and all the isms. And you did mention that you had many gay friends so maybe you can get information from them…since if they are your friends perhaps they trust you with their vulnerabilities.
Perhaps you should just start another thread about the Late Great Myth that is “reverse discrimination”…since that seems to be where this all starts for you.
July 10, 2008 at 10:43 pm #627196
AnonymousInactiveAgain, I WAS having a conversation.
Where was everybody then?
I was asking questions and, by doing so, learning something (this is around the time you posted, “yawn”).
This isn’t about explaining your life to the straight girl. A lot of people read these forums and I think a conversation about this topic is great.
July 10, 2008 at 10:51 pm #627197
AnonymousInactiveBtw, Bayou, thank you for a kind question in the midst of all this.
Again, I would have to refer you to my post #158.
I am interested if that is an accurate leap to make where socl is discussing heterosexism and the need for safe spaces?
July 10, 2008 at 10:58 pm #627198
KayleighMemberI won’t participate in a discussion again with you, NR. I did so many times in these threads on the “isms”, assuming your intent was genuine.
What I believe is that you were not genuine, and that you manipulated things we said to you and used some of those things later against people. I also agree this latest attempt is more pot stirring.
This is my perception and my opinion.
July 10, 2008 at 11:08 pm #627199
RSMemberNR, I think you were having a conversation because Socl seems to be the most patient person in the world. Props to Socl.
After this sentence that meg quoted: “If you aren’t willing to talk about these things on a neighborhood forum…” can you really wonder why these discussions “turn so heated so quickly”? Because that statement was offensive to me personally as a member of the LGBTQ community (the B/Q, if any of you Triangle Pub folks were scratching your heads!) and made me NOT want to engage with you on this issue. Trying to goad someone into responding or piss people off enough that they will engage in conversation is really counterproductive.
July 10, 2008 at 11:09 pm #627200
JanSParticipantOK…I have refrained here…but..let’s all get this straight…JoB speaks for JoB. The rest of us speak for ourselves. Sometimes we agree, sometimes we don’t…so let’s put that “assumption” to rest…it’s tiresome. And it shows that you don’t think much of anyone’s opinions, as they’re not really ours? We are not sheep…we’re adults, and can think for ourselves.
Crawling back into my hole now :)
I truly think you all need to get together in person and have this discussion…it would be lively, and maybe, just maybe, you’d all realize that the face to face spoken word is better than a misinterpretation of a typed word in a forum. I’m saying that with respect for everyone on here. You want discussion? Have a real one. :)
OK..now I’m really back in my hole :D
July 10, 2008 at 11:12 pm #627201
KenParticipantthis horse is so dead you can’t even sell the meat for dog food.
Let it go people. Republicans cling to the “reverse discrimination” meme because it is comforting. Let them believe whatever keeps them from loading up on ammo and trying to “fix” everyone else.
July 10, 2008 at 11:13 pm #627202
flowerpetalMemberIs it only interesting to me that “Shed22” brought this topic back to life only a few days ago and then has not been heard from again? And is it only interesting to me that “Shed22” signed up for the forums presumably to make his/her comment?
And oddly, when I click on “Shed22’s” profile I see that Shed22 last commented on this topic 10 minutes ago; even though there is no comment 10 minutes ago from Shed22? “Shed22” where are you?
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