Grow up dems!

[MissK]

The bottom line, is that those who support Obama will show that support as those who support McCain will do the same. I was not sure who to support earlier this year. I have always liked McCain but don’t believe in some of his policies. I didn’t really know who Obama was and had to learn more before finally getting behind him 100%.

We can post and post and post and that is fine. But if’s to chastize or belittle one another for our choices, than it defeats the purpose. It is great to debate, fact find, and investigate. It makes us better informed.

Ok that’s just my two cents.

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[Caduceus]

MissK speaks the truth!

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[CP]

I think for better or worse this forum has challenged my ideas, reaffirmed a lot of things, made me question a lot of things and has gotten me riled up about something and we ALL need that every once in a while. I think that this forum and all of its manifestations have been great for getting people interested in the debate and I really appreciate that!

True there are snide comments here and there, but I think most of us can take it as long as it doesn’t get personal. Blogging and discussing politics is not for the weak of heart, but like MissK said, we can’t come in here believing we can change votes – but we can challenge thinking and that’s valuable in this day and age.

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[Anonymous]

Well, I wasn’t sure where to post this, but I will post here because I like what has recently been stated in this thread.

First off, JenV – You are absolutely correct. I did misspeak and the only reason I can think is that I got ahead of myself (I think I was envisioning that McCain/Palin already won). I’m okay with admitting when I’m wrong, and I was wrong. I do believe, however, in a neighborhood forum of adults, a certain level of respect for each other should be maintained, regardless of how much you disagree politically. The WAY you say something goes a long way.

I agree with the above comments from MissK and CP. I am a regular participant on this forum because I learn so much here. By being challenged on my own views and ideas, I am gaining knowledge. I love a good discussion and where it tends to lead me. I research, I stretch my mind thinking of every angle to a situation, etc.. I think it’s great and I love to read that other’s are getting the same thing from this forum. To belittle and chastise is pointless and takes us all, as intelligent adults, nowhere.

The next thing I want to say is how proud I am to be alive today and to live in America. To be witness to such a historical election. I was telling some friends last night that this is such an amazing time in our country and the interest in this election is phenomenal. I am proud to be a part of it (even from our small corner of the WSB). I also know that the thanks for this historical moment in time goes to Obama. Either way the election turns out, history will be made. The main reason Palin is on the ticket is because of Obama (that part of her nomination still bothers me).

Anyways, I just wanted to share that and express my thanks and gratitude with all of you who get me thinking!

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[CP]

o_0 NR… don’t ever make me agree with you again. I was just thrown into an ideological time warp. (Just kidding!) Well put! I shall savor this flavor as I know we’ll be right back to arguing soon but I’m looking forward to it. Really great thoughts on the whole blogging issue I could NOT agree more.

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[Zenguy]

I think a lot of the credit for Palin being on the ticket goes to Hillary. Still pandering imo.

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[HP]

It would have been so much better if the repub woman vp pick was closer in qualifications to Hillary. She is a woman who is easy to respect as a candidate even if you arent voting for her. Her experience can not be denied, she lived in the white house for 8 years do we not think she was a voice for Bills choices? Not to mention all of her credentials and work on her own. Sarah Palin couldnt be farther from Hillary. IMO

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[acemotel]

In either case, Palin’s nomination isn’t due to her own qualifications. In any other time and place, she wouldn’t have made it past round one. Sarah Palin is no Hilary Clinton, as has been so aptly pointed out.

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[Anonymous]

“In either case, Palin’s nomination isn’t due to her own qualifications. In any other time and place, she wouldn’t have made it past round one.” – acemotel

I agree with this comment. I would also agree with this comment if you were to switch the word “Palin” with “Obama”.

I still love that it will be historical, either way.

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[Zenguy]

The difference though is that Obama ran a national campaign and won. Obviously a lot of American’s (like me) do feel he is qualified for the job.

IMO, a President is a manager and someone to rally the American people behind certain ideas and a path forward. Both things I believe Obama excels at.

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[acemotel]

Obama’s nomination is absolutely due to his own qualifications. He has been vetted by the whole country and his own party. He has been chosen by millions of people, which is the foundation of our wonderful system of democracy (witness the overwhelming attendance at Democratic precinct caucuses). Palin was chosen by ONE person.

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[HP]

amen zenguy and ace!

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[CP]

Am I the only one who sees experience as a negative? I don’t want someone that’s mired in all the Washington crap… I want a fresh face. I don’t really care how fresh it has to be. He’s been tested to my liking as a person and as a responsible member of society with good ideas. Bring it on, I say! Let’s get him in office before he has to spend any more time being corrupted by “politics as usual”.

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[Anonymous]

“Personally I’m finding it a bit hard not to be offended by McCain’s choice. If he wanted to pander to the women voters and the Hilary voters, couldn’t he have picked someone more experienced?” – CP

So why does experience, or lack of it, matter in regards to Republicans, but not when it comes to Democrats?

Why is a lack of experience “offensive” if it is a Republican, but considered a “fresh face” if it is a Democrat?

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[JenV]

turn those words around and ask yourself the same question, NR. That’s all you R’s harp on is Obama’s supposed lack of experience, yet when we turn it around the right wingers act all wounded. It’s like you guys have no short term memory…

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[CP]

If you’re going to pander to the Hilary voters, you might as well give people a comparable choice – that’s what I was trying to say. I don’t care about her experience one iota, really. I just think that she’s abrasive, offensive and shows poor personal judgment.

I do hate to remind you that we are not directly electing Palin into office. So comparing her to Obama is a little silly to begin with. That “heartbeat from the presidency stuff” is troubling and probably going to come to pass, but that’s not how I’m going to determine my vote.

You quote me with stalker-like voracity. It’s kinda creeping me out. But alas, I don’t think those two statements are incongruous.

AND despite her “experience” or “lack thereof” I think think she’s just “any old woman” chosen mostly for looks and hot air.

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[CP]

Well said, JenV. I’ve learned not to go there with NR specifically, but kudos for bravery. I think this is where taking a good hard look into your beliefs comes into play. I can’t say I can do it all the time, but I’m trying to be better. :)

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[Anonymous]

I agree. I can very easily be accused of arguing that Obama doesn’t have enough experience, I say it all the time.

The reason that is a better argument, however, is the fact that Obama is running for President. Palin is running for VP.

I wish they both had more experience, personally. But, running for President, absolutely.

Really, my question to CP, though, is the fact that, yesterday, experience was a factor when discussing Palin, but today, experience doesn’t mean anything and it is suggested even to be beneficial in regards to Obama.

It’s not about a “short term memory”, it’s about applying the same standards, that are important to you, to everyone.

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[Anonymous]

CP – Just saw your response.

That is an interesting conclusion to come to when simply asked to back up your own statements, which looked contradictory.

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[CP]

Oh, I agree entirely. I’ve always felt experience wasn’t that big of a deal, though I realize it sounded that way in the comment I made that you quoted. However, when it comes to Palin and Obama, I think that we have more important things to focus on than their experience. I think it’s irrelevant for both of them as far as the big issues go. However, what I’m saying is: that I wish Palin had SOMETHING going for her, experience included, that would give her something besides hype. That’s not enough to inspire my confidence in her and right now it’s all she’s got going for her – a speech. And if we’re going to finger point about skepticism over speeches, you may want to turn it right back around on your party just so we don’t have to go down that route.

“All Obama has is some speech… by the way… GREAT speech last night, Sarah Palin.” – Steven Colbert.

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[CP]

Just saw your response – I did back up my statements twice in just about the same words each time, directly in response to you. What exactly is it that you’re taking issue with here? I answered your question and felt that you probably wouldn’t like it being turned back around on you, but you are free to go right ahead. I just try not to go on the defensive with you as that’s when the barbs start coming out – that’s just my constructive criticism.

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[villagegreen]

NR- I think you’re comparing two different types of ‘experience.’ I think Obama may not have as much experience in Washington as some, but he’s got plenty of other experience.

He was raised without a father and worked his way up and graduated from a great University. He’s seen the world traveling outside the U.S. In his 8 years in the Illinois State Senate he passed bills on various issues including health care, poverty, crime, the environment, and ethics. As U.S. Senator, he’s held assignments on Senate committees for Foreign Relations, Environment and Public Works and Veterans’ Affairs, as well as Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs. He’s made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Central Asia and Africa. He’s worked with people from many walks of life and seems to undertand their struggles and has fresh ideas for improving their lives.

On the other hand you have Sarah Palin who bounced around from school to school, didn’t have a passport until last year, was runner-up in the Miss Alaska Beauty pageant, bankrupted a small town in Alaska as mayor, and has been Governer for a year and half of a state with a total population of 600,000 (about the size of Seattle).

Her biggest claim to fame seems to be that she raised taxes on oil drilling and was able to send everyone in the state a check. Great, that’s exactly what we need to fix our global and economic problems. Let’s let big oil run rampant as long as I get a check for a hundred bucks at the end of the year.

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[Anonymous]

villagegreen – I think that was a very intelligent (although, somewhat liberally slanted) comparison of each candidates experience.

Believe me, before anyone says anything, everything I write is conservatively slanted. I know that.

What I don’t understand, and maybe I’m reading too much into just a friendly, neighborhood forum of mostly like-minded people, but the desire and eagerness to be RIGHT.

I saw it posted here earlier that no one will change anyone else’s opinion or can make a person see something the same way they do.

I am extremely comfortable with the fact that this is a very “liberal” forum, I am comfortable that I live in a “liberal” city in a “liberal” state on a “liberal” coast. I’m not here to make anyone change their political outlook. I’m here to challenge ideas and have mine challenged.

I think that type of discussion, the kind that stretches our minds, is the most productive. I do not feel that petty arguments (or petty topics, for that matter) encourage that productivity.

I will consistently defend my position, I will back up what I say. If I make a mistake, I will acknowledge it, correct it and apologize.

The nastiness that I have witnessed (not necessarily personally, but in regards to my respective Party) in the last couple of days, I believe, is not needed, off-topic, pointless and completely unproductive.

However, this just may be the only way that some are capable of discussion when it comes to politics. In which case, I will deal with it. Discussing issues is what I find most interesting and hopefully, as the Palin nomination dies down, we will get back to that.

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[CP]

“I will consistently defend my position, I will back up what I say. If I make a mistake, I will acknowledge it, correct it and apologize.”

So you are willing to bend only if you make a mistake? Will you defend your decision even if new evidence is brought into light? That’s what I haven’t seen so far. I’ve been willing to take it into account, acknowledge and bend my overall view in light of new info. Your words here don’t leave too much room for that.

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[Gina]

I am on a waiting list at the library for “Sarah: how a hockey mom turned Alaska’s political establishment upside down” by Kaylene Johnson.

I want to read what was published before the hype of the past week. Only 159 pages long. I think there have been some threads here longer than that!

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[Author]

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