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July 25, 2013 at 2:08 am #608381
WFMemberhttp://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_tee_pre-health-teenage-pregnancy
society needs to stop enabling the above, better access to BC, adoption no more enabling. this is the start of the cycle that needs to be stopped!
July 25, 2013 at 2:26 am #794455
JoBParticipantteen birth rates decline
http://www.cdc.gov/features/dsteenpregnancy/
FYI.. adoption won’t change the teen birth rate at all.
interesting paper
http://www.cdc.gov/features/dsteenpregnancy/
what i found startling were the 12,000 births per year where the mothers were younger than 15.
i didn’t see statistics for the 15-17 age group but did look for high school drop outs due to pregnancy and found this.
http://www.thenationalcampaign.org/resources/pdf/teen-preg-hs-dropout.pdf
did you know that 1 in 4 kids drop out of high school.. for minorities the statistic is 4 in 10..
roughly 30% of the girls who drop out of high school do so due to pregnancy.
this article had an interesting local angle
http://aclu-wa.org/blog/teen-pregnancy-discrimination-and-dropout-rate
it appears the teen pregnancy rate is tied to a lack of economic opportunity with those communities with lower income rates producing significantly higher teen pregnancy rates.
i know.. this conversation isn’t going the way you thought it would.
i was supposed to wag my finger at all those bad little girls
and instead i am pointing out that the teen pregnancy rate may be tied to poverty
imagine that.
July 25, 2013 at 2:37 am #794456
BreezyParticipantSpeaking as one who had a baby while in college that I gave up for adoption, I had access to birth control and so did the father – we just didn’t use it that time. Lack of self-control, lack of maturity, lack of intellect – 1, 2, or all 3. Neither of us were from low socio-economic backgrounds, both of us had come from stable 2-parent homes, etc..sometimes it happens…
July 25, 2013 at 2:52 am #794457
JoBParticipantbreezy..
i wasn’t supposed to be able to get pregnant at all.
my second child was due to condom failure
the third to birth control pill failure
the nearly fourth due to tubal ligation failure
really :(
the hysterectomy put an end to my pregnancies.
sometimes pregnancy just happens..
no matter how responsible you are..
FYI. for the moralizers
i was not married for the first pregnancy and gave the child up for adoption
i was married for the 2nd and 3rd.
July 25, 2013 at 3:00 am #794458
WFMemberjob exactly my point, it is time to break the cycle and not provide government support that enables this cycle. breaking the cycle requires that ADOPTION be made the only viable choice. Better yet better BC to not get pregnant.
the point is that you have to break the cycle. the current system is broken and does not work.
July 25, 2013 at 4:51 am #794459
BreezyParticipantJoB, wow, yeah sometimes it just happens.
@WF, are you talking about abortion but not talking about it? I want to be sure I am not misinterpreting your posts.July 25, 2013 at 4:56 am #794460
datamuseParticipantPlease explain what you mean by the word “cycle” in this context, WF, and then how exactly adoption will break it. (Do you know any adoptees or anyone who gave a child up for adoption? It’s not always as simple as you’re making it sound.)
July 25, 2013 at 5:15 am #794461
kgdlgParticipant“Adoption be made the only viable choice”
Ok WF so if you are young and poor and you get pregnant, you are FORCED to give up your child? So much for individual responsibility now huh? And are you suggesting that the government forcibly take these kids away?
Now I remember why I stopped commenting on Hooper’s posts. Time for me to do the same with the new and not so improved, WF.
July 25, 2013 at 5:24 am #794462
WFMemberkgdlg so what is your solution? this is the problem the current system of giving money to young people to keep kids they have no resources to pay for and set a bad example and the cycle continues. at least adoption breaks the cycle.
i have known people that spent 10’s of thousands of $’s to adopt a child from abroad because no US born babies were available. the current system simply fosters a
look at the data, teen pregnancy in the US is so far and above any other developed country it is obvious there is a problem. and the current system of providing government support does not work. the cycle needs to be broken.
July 25, 2013 at 5:41 am #794463
JanSParticipantsadly, those couples who want to adopt want the perfect newborn. There are plenty of kids that need permanent homes in these United States, they are just not newborns…they have been in the cycle of foster care for a long time, sometimes years. So don’t hand me the crap about no kids available in this country, so we have to go overseas. That’s hogwash.
Again, be honest here WFHoop…do you want the government to interfere, and force these teenagers to first carry the babies to term, and then have the government forcibly go and take these babies away from their mothers? Be honest, and don’t walk a circle around this.
July 25, 2013 at 6:10 am #794464
elikapekaParticipantFWhooper, all your link shows is a listing of number of births. The US has a much larger population than Poland, for instance, so I would expect that we would have a higher number of births.
And where does this link mention anything about a correlation between birth rates and “government support”? What do you consider this enabling support to be? You’re making a connection that is not supported by your “evidence.” TANF benefits are limited to five years total now, so what exactly are you talking about?
And lastly, how do you account for the fact that the countries with the lowest birth rates are generally those with the most generous social safety nets (most obviously the Scandanavian countries?) That flies in the face of your “conclusions.”
July 25, 2013 at 7:15 am #794465
JoBParticipantWhoop..
the highest correlation shown is between poverty and teen pregnancy..
break the cycle of poverty and you break the primary cause of teen pregnancy..
breaking that cycle would require more government assistance.. more public investment in education.. more public investment in career training.. more..
not less.
July 25, 2013 at 2:16 pm #794466
TanDLParticipantYep… pull government support and teen-agers will stop having unprotected sex. Hahahahahaha…
July 25, 2013 at 2:28 pm #794467
miwsParticipantIt’s not always as simple as you’re making it sound.)
Remember whom we’re “talking” to here, datamuse. To WFhoop, everything has a simple resolution.
Don’t have a job? Simple! Go out and get another one!
Job doesn’t pay enough for even the most basic needs? Simple! go out and get a second job!
Mike
July 25, 2013 at 2:39 pm #794468
waynsterParticipantHmmmmm lets see teens had sex long before I was thought of I think…. this is just a recent development of the 90’s that brought all this to light…..I know blame it on liberals and democrats they started it……sure lol
July 25, 2013 at 5:25 pm #794469
kgdlgParticipantI remain in censed by this post. First, the title implies that single young unwed mothers are causing our collective “challenges”. And personally, stating outright that all teenage mothers should be forced to give children up for adoption is like me coming on here and saying all teenage boys should have their d$@&s cut off for having teenage sex. It is violent, ridiculous, inflammatory and absolutely not the role of government.
Lastly, fromthe crappy link that was posted it is impossible to tell that ACTUALLY, the teen pregnancy rate has dropped in the US dramatically.
And the reason, better access to birth control and education about sex, both things squashed by republicans during the cultur wars of past decades. Funny, if we simply talked about it more, it would happen less.
July 25, 2013 at 5:26 pm #794470
kgdlgParticipantI remain in censed by this post. First, the title implies that single young unwed mothers are causing our collective “challenges”. And personally, stating outright that all teenage mothers should be forced to give children up for adoption is like me coming on here and saying all teenage boys should have their d$@&s cut off for having teenage sex. It is violent, ridiculous, inflammatory and absolutely not the role of government.
Lastly, fromthe crappy link that was posted it is impossible to tell that ACTUALLY, the teen pregnancy rate has dropped in the US dramatically.
And the reason, better access to birth control and education about sex, both things squashed by republicans during the cultur wars of past decades. Funny, if we simply talked about it more, it would happen less.
July 25, 2013 at 6:11 pm #794471
WFMemberjob seattle schools spend $11,300 per student (reference Seattle Times July 16, 2013).
a class of say 20 students is $226,000 say the teacher is compensated at $100,000 (incorporating salary and benefits). thus substantial money is being spent on schools.
the problem is that too much money is being diverted to a small segment of special needs students (most special needs students cost more but the added cost is not so excessive that it diverts significant resources and makes sense) at the expense to all other students. if this money could be directed instead to the main classroom to reduce class size so teachers can provide added guidance to the average jack and jill student it would be far more effective than excessive spending on a very few!
liberals seem to think there is infinite $ to pay for social services (this spending has come at the expense of basic government services such as infrastructure maintenance, parks and libraries that serve all people) and are not willing to pull the plug when a program is not effective.
whatever happened to some individual responsibility? too many people fail to save for rainy day and then government bails people out, medicaid is hugely expensive. just the other day i met a retired mechanic, 48 years old. i asked him how he was able to do that he said he never used a credit card and the only time he used credit was to buy a home many years ago (fully paid for now). AND no he did not inherit any wealth from his parents.
and regarding the R’s they can also shove it regarding the culture wars and their idiotic anti tax position. for example a modest 10 cent/gallon fuel tax to maintain infrastructure used to be a bi-partisan doable item. and increasing taxes on the truly wealthy 1% is reasonable.
and liberals are just as bad by not acknowledging that people who have failed to save during there working years made a choice and if they run out of money tough.
yes i understand that unfortunate stuff happens and having support systems in place for the unfortunate makes sense. But liberals have expanded this to items that people have control over (saving for a rainy day, not buying insurance, having kids et al) that is simply not fair to those that save, but insurance and delay children until they are financially ready.
July 25, 2013 at 6:23 pm #794472
TanDLParticipantAnd what would you propose doing for the special needs students?
July 25, 2013 at 6:46 pm #794473
WFMemberthere will always be special needs students that the vast majority are educable. such as slow learners, downs syndrome and the like and providing these students a good education is absolutely appropriate.
but the excessive expansion of ADHD diagnosis and the like has increased costs and the very few that are extremely challenged are indeed a challenge with no easy answer; however forcing school districts (taxpayers) to write unlimited checks is not fair to other students and there needs to be some accountability on cost.
July 25, 2013 at 6:51 pm #794474
datamuseParticipantI am still not clear on what “cycle” is being criticized here, nor on how one breaks it.
And if there’s really a shortage of U.S.-born babies, thus requiring American couples to adopt internationally, how do you explain the overwhelming number of children stuck in foster care? There’s a cycle that could use some addressing; some of those kids cycle through foster families until they’re adults, never having known a stable home life.
July 25, 2013 at 7:02 pm #794475
WFMemberthe foster care system in part is due to the system that enables people to have kids without adequate resources to raise them.
i had a young man working for me several years ago that got his gf pregnant while in HS. they got married AND had both his and GF’s parents providing financial and emotional support to make it work.
many kids are being born to situations that simply are not workable and because of the enabling too many kids end up in the foster system (of course this is not the only reason but
is a significant reason). adoption is a better option and many people that want to adopt want babies.
July 25, 2013 at 7:08 pm #794476
miwsParticipantWFhoop, was your post #20 a direct response to TanDL’s post #19?
If so, you did not answer the question.
Mike
July 25, 2013 at 7:51 pm #794477
datamuseParticipantBored now…
July 25, 2013 at 8:56 pm #794478
FullTiltParticipantWF you obviously have not been anywhere near a school in a long time. Or if you have, you aren’t paying attention. An equitable society gives more support to those who need it to get to the same place as others- in this case the goal is a quality education. There are more special needs students today because 1- research has led to a better understanding of various issues students have, so there is more diagnosing going on. 2- there are no longer viable employment options for students who don’t thrive in a school setting. Once upon a time if you couldn’t sit and focus in class you could leave school at 15 and get a job sweeping up, work your way up through the company and have a decent wage to one day raise a family. 3- BECAUSE THE *#%%** EDUCATION SYSTEM IS BROKEN. The mainstream classroom does not meet the needs of most students.
If you think this is an issue of rearranging funds, you are naive. Throwing more money at the schools would be a nice start, so at least they aren’t awful places to work or study, so we can at least bring schools into this century, so the average life of a teacher is a little more then 5 years.
And please people, if you sincerely think that people just need to save more for a rainy day, go spend some time volunteering and getting to know these people you are talking about. The cycle of poverty is much more complex. I’ve had dozens and dozens of students who made what I see as bad choices, primarily because they didn’t know there were other real, obtainable options.
If we as a country can make education an actual priority- meaning it is funded and legislated based on actual data and empirical evidence, and includes the support systems students and families need to be successful in school (counseling, job training, welfare, healthcare…), then we can start to see change. Unfortunately in my cynical moments I doubt we as a nation are competent enough to do such a thing.
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