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July 7, 2012 at 3:40 pm #603899
DannyQMemberWithout a doubt in my mind I am 100% positive that President Obama will be re-elected.
However, I do want to state that I am also beyond thrilled that Mitt Romney is running for President. It brings to the stage something that has never been fully exposed. The awareness of the LDS community will now be fully explored and advertised. People will now fully see all of the beliefs that they believe in.
PRESIDENT OBAMA 2012!! ;-)
July 7, 2012 at 5:19 pm #763028
SmittyParticipantJuly 7, 2012 at 5:37 pm #763029
kootchmanMemberlove and kisses.. “blinky “P” … He better step up those job numbers… U6 rose, the BLS stats have us at 8.2% …. still a pittance of job growth.. 80K? we have 12.8 unemployed… at this rate we will be at full employment in just 160 years … oh, no.. we won’t… I forgot population growth… just figue in rought numbers if we keep Democrats in power.. about 312 years… who they going to tax in the meantime to keep the Sugar Cookie ship of state afloat… 2324, the year we are at full employment. Far out.
July 7, 2012 at 5:57 pm #763030
DBPMemberDanny . . . I agree with you on two counts.
1) I want Obama to be re-elected.
2) I believe he WILL be re-elected.
Having said that, I want to raise two other issues.
First, I think it’s going to be a close race, and that will be good for American democracy. Obama has disappointed people on many fronts, and it would send the wrong message to him and the Democratic Party if we were to reward him with a landslide. That would be like giving a kid an A+ just for handing in a paper, when what he really deserves is a C-. Barely passing.
Finally, and most important, I want to say that I think Mitt Romney is a good man and a worthy Presidential candidate. If times were a bit different, I can see myself voting for the guy.
July 7, 2012 at 6:36 pm #763031
DannyQMemberKootchman, I really wouldn’t try doing math on the unemployment rates if I were you. We will never have accurate information to do so.
DBP, I appreciate your honesty. Where as both Mitt Romney and President Obama are both politicians and are BOTH playing “the game”, it is REALLY hard for me to have ANY respect for Mitt Romney as he once had such a similar healthcare plan in his own state that he wanted but then decided that he simply didn’t like it, yet now he is 150% against it and voicing it loudly just to go against the President.
To me, that is the real definition of a hypocrite.
I KNOW that President Obama isn’t perfect, but he’s definitely not a C-, I would give him a B-. Especially when people forget what he inherited when taking office. That’s like kicking someone who’s already on the ground and tell them they can’t fight.
July 8, 2012 at 4:02 am #763032
waterworldParticipantDBP: I am curious: what is it about Mitt Romney that leads you to believe he is a “good man and a worthy Presidential candidate”? Maybe you could also define the terms “good man” and “worthy” for purposes of this discussion.
July 8, 2012 at 4:56 am #763033
HMC RichParticipantDannyQ, Since you seem to be new (TO ME) I will be as brief and as nice as possible. Hello. The difference between health care plans between Romney and Obama is very simple.
The Massachusetts plan was a state plan. The ACA is a Federal Plan. Big Difference. If you remember your civics and or history that covered the constitution, the states are and were the places to explore different legislation and experimentation. The Federal Government was not originally allowed to be this big in the everyday lives of the citizen.
But 230 plus years of tweaking the constitution and using the courts and changing laws federally, you have come to this point in time. The last 100 years of progressive politics has changed the political landscape forever.
What is your issue with the LDS and Mitt Romney? As a Senator Mr. Obama was against Executive Privilege but now he has used it. Is he too a hypocrite? He has many times as a Senator supported or not supported certain viewpoints on policy but as President has chosen the opposite view.
Sorry, DannyQ, Obama may have “inherited” a financial crisis, but he promised to fix it with overseeing TARP, Stimulus and other programs. He hasn’t. He promised unemployment would not go over 8%. It did and it still is there at 8.2%. He has spent money.
And the ACA passage just woke the TEA Party up. You know, the group that helped bring about the biggest political butt kicking in a non presidential election?
Good Luck. You are so entitled to your view. But you just might be complaining about President Romney in a year.
July 8, 2012 at 6:02 am #763034
dobroParticipant“…the states are and were the places to explore different legislation and experimentation. The Federal Government was not originally allowed to be this big in the everyday lives of the citizen.”
There’s nothing in the Constitution that says what you claim. Quotations, please.
If the election were held today, Obama by 3 points. After the conventions and people at large start listening to what Rmoney is saying, Obama by 7.
July 8, 2012 at 6:13 am #763035
JanSParticipantRich…so, if it’s at a state level, it’s a mandate, and a penalty, but not a tax. If it’s at a fed. level…it’s a tax. What utter BS. It’s the same, all a matter of semantics. No amount of “explaining” will change that. Get over it. Period.
July 8, 2012 at 5:17 pm #763036
jamminjMember” The Federal Government was not originally allowed to be this big in the everyday lives of the citizen.”
First of all, what makes you think Romney is going to change any of this. If he is elected it means more corporate welfare and romney tax cuts which means trillions more in deficits.
Another problem with the argument is – where the hell were the tea party during the Bush years – the biggest growth of federal govt that we have seen in our country.
So we spend trillions overseas on a nation building splurge – no problem. But finding a way to find health care for Americans – that is the problem – ?!?!?!
And don’t give me this crap about mandates. We have many federal mandates in place.
One mandate that most people enjoy is your home mortgage. As a renter I am forced to pay a penalty for not buying a private product (a house). Employers / employees have to pay a medicare payroll tax. You have to pay social security tax. All hospitals must treat anyone needing emergency care by law. COBRA is a federal mandate. And there is that mandate that came from our countries first congress – http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llsl&fileName=001/llsl001.db&recNum=257
Tto argue that the GOP is going to shrink the federal govt is a joke (where in history has the Republicans shrunk the federal govt?
Maybe the party you should be looking at are the Libertarians.
Just curious – where’s the tea party members voice on reducing our military – one of our biggest expenditures and federal work force?
July 8, 2012 at 5:19 pm #763037
jamminjMemberPublic Sector (big bad govt) Jobs under Bush and Oama.
July 8, 2012 at 5:20 pm #763038
jamminjMemberPrivate Sector (our saviours) Jobs under Bush and Obama
July 8, 2012 at 5:24 pm #763039
jamminjMemberGOP (aka hypocrites):
Romney Camp Defends Poor Jobs Record (Massachusetts )
wait for it…..
wait for it…
wait for it….
He inherited a bad situation (wow, that really sounds familiar).
July 8, 2012 at 5:28 pm #763040
jamminjMemberand how does Romney handle the govt’s debt –
http://ametia.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/massachusetts-debt-under-romney_graph.png?w=640
so much for ‘small’ govt and curbing spending.
July 8, 2012 at 6:28 pm #763041
elikapekaParticipantYou know, DP, for a while I felt the same as you did about Romney. I probaby wasn’t going to vote for him, but I wasn’t too worried about him. But I no longer think he’s a good man. I’m not sure he’s a bad man, but he’s certainly an indifferent one. He’s made a lot of his money by putting people out of work, raiding their pension funds and then dumping them onto the social safety nets of unemployment, job retraining, pension guarantee board, not to mention the ripple effect on the communities at large, while he and his company walked away with the cash out of the companies. And he is proud of it.
I know it’s old news, but the dog on the roof of the car and his bullying of a classmate bothers me too, mainly because he still sees nothing wrong with his behavior. We all do stupid things, but most of us realize at some point they were stupid things and acknowledge that we wouldn’t do it again. He doesn’t seem to get that either.
He’s taken every side on every issue, sometimes in the same day. This goes beyond a sincere person changing his mind, or a candidate who finds the reality of actually performing the job dictates a different response. I have absolutely no idea what he stands for. I don’t think he really believes in or stands for anything.
My overall impression of the man is that he is someone who has led a privileged enough life that he’s never had to really examine his core values. He seems to have no moral center at all.
He’s just an empty suit with no substance. So no, I couldn’t and wouldn’t vote for the man.
July 8, 2012 at 6:40 pm #763042
kootchmanMemberRomney had a great employment record. He increased employment by 10%. The TEA Party was born of GW … and Obama. We will vote Democratic Party. The Republican Party has absolutely shrunken government.. Wisconsin, New Jersey, South Carolina, .. but it was the TEA Party that forced the hand. Home mortgage deductions are not a mandate, they are tax credits.. and chances are good your rental does not qualify… HUH…?!! Rental properties are depreciated , only interest expense are deducted depending on how they were financed, and after the depreciation is deducted, why.. you pay capital gains. Finance wizard. That is not so of course with primary and secondary homes… where you are given tax exemptions.. I think around 250K… for asset appreciation. It’s simple.. the government wanted to subsidize home ownership and the home building industry… by reducing taxes and making homes more affordable. It’s ok with me if you take it out of the tax code. Go for it.
Yes there is Dobro… a very specific clause,,, enumerated powers. That which is not granted is excluded. Like “shall orovide for the common defense”.., read the Roberts decision.. he calls the states “sovereigns… as that is what they are. That is also why they lost the argument that Obamacare is covered under the commerce clause.. it is a tax. Fine with us.. easier to repeal.
You are swooning to the tune elikipedia.. Romney took dead or dying companies.. they were on their way out… and made them viable again. 70% per cent of the time he managed to do it. Nucor Steel at the bottom of the hill is a Bain Capital saved firm. Right here in good old Seattle. Baine capital didn’t take healthy, prosperous companies and raid them… they took the dead and dying and tried to find value in them. For some, it was triage that failed. But he was a success most of the time. You can’t save em’ all… that’s free enterprise. Some rise, some fail.
Obama gotcha … you aren’t looking at his record. That’s it focus on a dog in a dog carrier on a roof of car. Never been hunting with dogs I see. Romney has been a success in private and public he has the versatility to do both. Obama? Dud. Obama’s core vlaues? None. He will lie down with any dog that will vote for him or donate to his campaign fund.
July 8, 2012 at 7:15 pm #763043
JanSParticipantOMFG…like Romney won’t?
July 8, 2012 at 7:28 pm #763044
kootchmanMemberYea he will… but he actually understands how economies work. we”ve had enough incompetence.
July 8, 2012 at 7:33 pm #763045
miwsParticipantJuly 8, 2012 at 7:45 pm #763046
JanSParticipanthe actually understands how economies work…for himself. For me? Not a clue. You believe what you want to believe, Kootch…I’m betting you’re gonna be complaining the same time next year, even if he does win. You act like he’s gonna be a savior of some kind…believe me, we understand what that’s about…been there, done that..
July 8, 2012 at 8:28 pm #763047
elikapekaParticipantKootchman, trying to get through your posts sometimes is like trying to get a drink of water through a garden hose.
But let me assure you, I’m not a Victorian lady “swooning” over anything. While I clearly do not have the time to do the in-depth reading and research I would like, as you apparently do, I can assure you that I can and do look at a variety of sources and make up my own mind. When it comes to Romney’s wealth through Bain Capital, yes, some of it was through venture capitalism, but some of it was also through vulture capitalism. I didn’t say he made all of his money that way, but he did make some that way. Bain and Romney absolutely did saddle companies in some cases, not all, with debt and take the value out for himself and his business compatriots, leaving the employees and communities high and dry. They were well-known for not putting money back into their investments. The difference is that the failure of one of their companies didn’t mean much to the Bain principals – but it meant everything to the people who lost their benefits, their jobs, and their retirement.
It’s one thing to make an investment, maybe make some difficult choices in trying to get the business back on its feet, and maybe fail. It’s another thing entirely to come in and raid the pension fund and cash on hand, borrow against the remaining assets, take all that money for yourself, and then tell the company’s employees they have to make sacrifices in order to service that debt. I get that you and many others feel this is an acceptable outcome in doing business. I disagree. I know I am being naive and unrealistic, but my personal values draw the line here.
As for your last paragraph, I don’t even understand what the hell you are talking about. It makes no sense to me. What dogs and hunting have to do with versatility and being a success completely eludes me. I am an animal lover and how people treat their pets tells me a lot about their character. His actions here simply contribute to my sense that he’s lacking in empathy.
You’re not going to change my mind, and I’m not going to change yours. Vive la difference, I guess.
July 8, 2012 at 9:38 pm #763048
kootchmanMemberNo, 70% of the time they saved the business. That’s a fact. But, in any case he did what his investors asked, maximized their investments. Companies fail all the time. Capital gets reallocated where it gets the best return. He did a great job. Funny Bain was a major Obama donor in 08”… he didn’t have much to say about them then, except thanks partner! Your comnent about his dog riding in a dog carrier… on the roof of the car… a reasons he won’t get your vote. They don’t raid the pension funds….and if there was a ton of cash on hand, they wouldn’t be in the offices of Bain capital seeking a rescue would they? where do you get this stuff? The also loaned hundred of millions to get some back on their feet when other banks and investors would not. Nucor is one of those. It’s better to allocate resources where companies have futures than watch the slow death spiral. Bain was a great company… then and now.
July 8, 2012 at 9:52 pm #763049
JanSParticipantyou keep bringing up Nucor, like we should somehow revere the fact that it’s here in little ol’ West Seattle. Like…how dare us be disloyal for dissing Bain…they saved West Seattle – not !
People disagree – it’s OK. If we all believed like you do, Kootch, it would be a boring world.Elikapeka, welcome to the club. You will be called naive, and belittled, and will be “set straight” at every turn.
July 8, 2012 at 9:56 pm #763050
JanSParticipantJuly 8, 2012 at 9:57 pm #763051
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