Uh oh Politics….

[JV]

Now this is getting good! You are so caught up in defending your side, even when they are in the wrong, that you have contorted yourself into a pretzel!

And now when we point it out by using his middle name, it’s racism?! I love you guys…these jokes write themselves!

When logic fails and your argument is lost, play the race card! Well done Jo! You know the play book well!

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[miws]

Mike

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[JoB]

JV

all i can do is shake my head

the sad thing is that you seem to be unable to tell the difference between someone pointing out racism and racism.

if you can’t identify that

you can’t confront your own racism in identifying the president by his middle name.

you know what i called Bush Jr?

Shrub

it was descriptive of the man .. of who and what he chose to be..

or Bush the younger

that was descriptive of his desire to show up his dad .. now there was man who would have done well to learn from the mistakes of his father..

and you call President Obama Hussein because ????

what exactly does his middle name say about him as a person other than to identify his race?

With any luck i won’t have to come up with an appropriate nickname for Mitt Romney…

but i can assure you that if i do it will have nothing to do with identifying his white upper class privilege.

he did that for himself when he went for Mitt.

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[JV]

and you call President Obama Hussein because ????

See post #45…no need to rewrite it.

what exactly does his middle name say about him as a person other than to identify his race?

It doesn’t identify his race. Hussein isn’t a traditional African American name, it’s a Muslim name. Race and religion are 2 different things. You understand that right?

You must have overlooked that nuance in your rush to end the conversation with your worn out race card. .

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[miws]

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[JoB]

JV

“And the Hussein comment was a reference to Redblack who always calls Romney “Willard”. (maybe you missed that) It doesn’t bother me, I just think it is funny that when it goes the other way, you whine about it.”

so you called President Obama a name because Redblack called Mitt Romney a name and all names are the same?

but no…

“Hussein isn’t a traditional African American name, it’s a Muslim name. Race and religion are 2 different things. You understand that right?”

of course i understand that race and religion aren’t the same thing..

I also understand the historical correlation between the Muslim brotherhood and race in the United States

President Obama clearly doesn’t practice the Muslim religion or belong to the Muslim brotherhood..

so what exactly are you saying about this president when you choose to call him Hussein Obama?

and why Hussein Obama when Redblack simply calls Mr Romney Willard?

You tell me.

I am not in a hurry t jump on anything here..

i just find your choice of name calling here socially unacceptable.

One of these things is not like the other.

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[JoB]

JV

btw.. just to be clear

i think it’s impossible to figure out who Millard Mitt Romney is from his campaign for President.

He doesn’t seem to have a platform or a stance on any of the ideas of our time. All he emits are empty soundbites that he immediately feels the need to clarify later.

I suspect he wants to be all things to all people but isn’t willing to be one thing for anyone.

The only thing we have to go on to assess his candidacy is his record.. and he doesn’t even stand behind that.

His inability to accurately assess the state of this nation on any terms other than the economics of business worries me.

The Presidency of the United States includes the stewardship of this country and it’s many resources… including it’s citizens.

Nothing Mitt Romney has said or done leads me to believe he understands that basic concept.

I don’t even think his heart is in the right place.

I do believe Mitt is the kind of man who would dope a horse to cover up a lame leg and figure it was just business… and yes, i am aware that it was his wife’s horse.

If Sarah and Michelle and Mitt are examples of the best the Republican party has to offer the United States, then i believe that the party which once fielded great statesmen is in serious trouble.

Barak Obama is exactly the President i expected him to be.

Unlike you, i have had 20 years of experience with community organizers and know that the title is not necessarily a curse.

JV, to organize a community, you have to recognize that one exists.

But i looked beyond his community organizing and saw the legislation that he promoted in his short stint as a Senator.

The man believes so strongly in the art of compromise that the legislation he promoted was all form and no function.

But.. and this is a big thing.. he has had 4 years of on the job training that Mitt can’t match and he could spend the next 4 years putting that to good use if we gave him the chance.

Unlike Bush Jr, he realizes that he has let the American public down in several areas and that realization is the first step towards action.

I still think democrats made the wrong choice in the last presidential election… but there you go. It’s the one we made and it’s the one we got.

As flawed as i think President Obama is…

he is a far stronger candidate for the Presidency of the United States than Mr Romney who has little to offer Republicans except a seemingly endless pile of money from special interests he will have to satisfy if elected.

Do you really think citizens United is a good thing?

Do you really want more of the same?

What country will you find yourself immigrating to to give your children the opportunity you had?

those are important questions JV

and i sincerely hope you have the answers

because if winning is all there is you will be facing them head on

thankfully, i won’t live that long

at least, not here

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[JV]

and why Hussein Obama when Redblack simply calls Mr Romney Willard?

You tell me.

Get ready for this…it’s his middle name!! Consider yourself told.

Also in your words, “the sad thing is that you seem to be unable to tell the difference between someone pointing out racism and racism.”

Your logic has you confused and twisted again because nobody on this thread has mentioned race before you did…maybe you meant Islamaphobia not racism. But wait, he’s not a Muslim, just his name is Muslim. Then somewhere you added in the Muslim Brotherhood, which is neither a race nor religion, it is an Islamic political movement.

You are confused. See why it is so difficult to follow your ramblings?

Maybe next time play the Islamaphobia card and see if it works out better for you.

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[WorldCitizen]

I totally agree that on its face, using Obama’s middle name isn’t off limits, racist or anything of the like. There are many times when I or others use people’s full names to create emphasis or for clarity. I also think the majority of the time (and I have no data in any way shape or form to verify this) most people using Obama’s full name is innocent.

However, there is a most definite racist undertone in the way it is used sometimes by certain people. I can’t recall now by who (sorry) but during the ’08 campaign, there was a big stink about some fundraiser or representative repeatedly drawing attention to his middle name… something like

“…and who do you trust to look after AMERICAN interests? John McCain or Barack HUSSEIN Obama?”

It was the emphasis on Hussein and the context it was used. It was so blatantly catering to the anti-Muslim contingent that is was disgusting. The genius (and shitty) thing about it was that its so simple to make the argument from the speaker’s perspective that he wasn’t saying anything about race, and to even bring up he was insinuating something was, in itself, racist.

I think that many people who take the conservative side of the political argument become easy targets for racist accusations because they happen to be on the side with the most overt racists. I know plenty of conservative folks who are not the least bit racist, but have to fight the stereotype all the time when dealing with lefties (in particular) and righties as well.

I have to admit, I have to fight it at a subconscious level to stop from jumping to the conclusion that just because someone has aligned themselves with the “right”, they are racist. It may be true more often than not, just not all the time. Reading racism into comments is so easy to do when most of the time they actually ARE racist.

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[kootchman]

Sounds like someine has been to sensitivity training and needs to do something for a final paper. Obama played the “Hussein” card on his national apology tour to the mideast… who can forget the famous Cairo speech? It was dazzling in its naivety. Gosh those people weren’t south side of Chicago sophisticates.. It was a rude awakening when he got to DC and found out he was a mediocre intellect in a sea of very smart men and women, His oratory got him in the door and his performance will get him out the same door. Oh, JoB … wishful thinking that Hussein knew something, anything, about economies. It shows. Citizens United was a great thing. It was a needed counterweight to self serving unionist who have become the entrenched entitlement class, not public servants. Their campaign dollars and votes were the mothers milk of the democratic party for over forty years. Now their core is also illegal immigrants, the registered dead, and to the best of my knowledge, they are not a substantial campaign contributor. Too many straws and not enough soda. Maybe he can grasp that concept. He didn’t let us down.. he lied to us. He is still lying to us. The man is a committed, dyed in the wool, socialist … it’s in his political DNA. We KNOW who picked up the Obama tab.wall Street..they needed cover… in fact, their main man is heading up the justice department. No one in the Democratic Party wants a trial, a hearing, or a deposition that reveals the federal intanglements in the housing market collapse. I’d say a little help from Citizens United is welcome and neccessary to restore some parity. If the left wants to trade votes for sugar… surely the right can message the perils of sucking dry the fruit tree that sustains them. You still haven’t figured out how to reduce that 16 trillion…. without the gumball machine. A. There isn’t enough tax revenue in the top ten per cent to make a dent… even Simpson Bowles said $3 in cuts for every $1 in taxes. And we might have a balanced budget in 10 years, Are you watching the national news? See Scranton PA? Stoclton CA, San Diego, San Jose? How many cards have to fall before you can admit the house of cards is collapsing? ” I will not raise the taxes of the middle class one dime”… Barack Hussein Obama… .. Chuck Shumer and Nanch Pelosi… uh.. better make that millionaires too! He was Hussein when it suited him… and he isn’t now that it doesn’t.

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[JV]

World citizen, so you’re saying that you pre-judge people who you KNOW aren’t racist solely based on your own assumptions about that group? There might be a term for that.

Now on the other hand, if a person’s words or deeds have given you good reasons to come to that conclusion about that particular person, then it may be justified.

Just like Jeremiah Wright, Obama’s Pastor for 20 years, who focused on Black Liberation Theology, and the black experience. He is either a racist, or at best race-pre-occupied. His words speak for themselves.

So you are right worldcitizen, it would be difficult not to jump to the conclusion that since obama aligned himself with Jeremiah Wright that he too might be a racist. (should I include some of the racist quotes from his books?)

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[kootchman]

Hey “Dubya” ? is that racist? I think calling him Hussein IS socially acceptable.. see how that works JoB? Some do some don’t… it’s not an absolute. Dubya and Hussein… works for me.

:But.. and this is a big thing.. he has had 4 years of on the job training that Mitt can’t match and he could spend the next 4 years putting that to good use if we gave him the chance.”

He flunked…we don’t do social promotions at the White House.

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[JoB]

JV..

so let me get this right

because i would hate to fail your logic 101

as long as the person who makes racist innuendos doesn’t use the word race they aren’t racist

but the person who points out that the innuendo is racist is racist because they used the word race?

oh my.

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[JoB]

kootch

“He flunked…we don’t do social promotions at the White House.”

you are so wrong about that.

Even Bush’s supporters gave him a failing grade for his first term and still thought we should re-elect him because he made such good campaign promises.

that didn’t work out well.

Obama’s supporters still give him a passing grade.. and hold out hope that he could still earn far more.

there is still hope in that hope and change slogan of his…

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[WorldCitizen]

JV:

No that’s not what I said. That’s what you said.

I’m not innocent. I have my prejudices just like everyone else and am making a concerted effort to not let them get in the way of how I deal with people. I stated as much in my last post.

The whole Jeremiah Wright Thing…you know what? I agree. He probably is a racist. At least his words as I’ve read them seem to point to heavily racist tendencies. I would say that the quotes as I’ve read them were lacking context, which is troubling, but they WERE pretty bad as I can recall. As far as Obama goes, I think it would be natural for many people to think of him as having racist tendencies as he was associated with this man for so many years as a spiritual advisor. I thought people should not have been so quick to dismiss such a relationship as politically inconvenient and no more.

I also happen to think the leader of the free world is at a major disadvantage when professing to believe in God at all. I like it when people make their judgements about their existence and the world around them based on observation and logical thought. And the words from any man or woman who speaks with such passion for religion, I place in roughly the same category as a Jeremiah Wright, regardless if he was a pastor or not…but I digress.

Obama’s words and actions (the ones I have seen and heard) have not proven racist enough to me to call him on it. I think you would find that statement to be consistent with my post you were so quick to deride.

I WILL, however, call BS on Obama for being just another politician beholden to special interests. I’m totally with you there. I just happen to think he’s much better than the alternative.

And I would most definitely be interested to hear some racist quotes from his book (which I haven’t read, BTW, so if you could provide some context to the quotes that’d be great.)

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[jamminj]

so the argument is, that if Obama’s middle name was John… you would make the same middle name statements? really?

I call BS. It all goes in line with tea parties bringing monkeys to rallies (where were the monkeys during Clinton years). The cry that he is a muslim (even though McCain half-heatedly tried to squash them).

In addition to the viral emails that obama doesn’t honor national prayer day, but he prayed all day with the muslims.

The claims that he secretly practices islam.

The continued claims that he’s not born American.

And having over 20% of republicans thinking he is muslim.

so yeah, saying Barack HUSSEIN Obama does have a tone that screams racism and bigotry.

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[jamminj]

” it would be difficult not to jump to the conclusion that since obama aligned himself with Jeremiah Wright that he too might be a racist. “

and how do I view Catholics and those still practicing Catholicism – child molesters. For anyone who aligns themselves with the Catholic Church, it would be difficult not to jump to the conclusion that they are also child molesters.

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[kootchman]

I haven’t heard a single priest condone child molestation from the pulpit. I’ll listen more carefully. BTW… 20 per cent of American polled think he is Muslim… probably 60% don’t even know what a Muslim is…. this is a country where 40% can’t identify Canada on a map. IF there were monkeys at tea party events… and I have been to a few.. and never seen one.. at least they would have cleaned up the monkey turds. Now… Occupy…. they don’t clean up after themselves. Tell, ya first muslim I see that that promises a balanced budget… he or she has my vote! He has had almost four years on the job… what evidence do you have he had “learned: anything… he is still shilling the same old tune.

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[jamminj]

“I haven’t heard a single priest condone child molestation from the pulpit. “

the payouts and cover ups speak for themselves. Catholic = child molester.

“he is still shilling the same old tune.” – yeah that republicians are willing to be bi-partisan”

“what evidence do you have he had “learned: anything… “

and what evidence do you have that a republican president will shrink govt/deficit.

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[HMC Rich]

You know, there are whack jobs that support both parties.

How about them truthers. Wanna know how many thought Bush was complicit in 9/11? http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0411/More_than_half_of_Democrats_believed_Bush_knew.html

Jamminj, in years past the government agencies automatically received an automatic increase to baseline budgeting. The CBO came about during Nixon’s tenure in office. Since then budget increases were automatic. The House this year voted to stop this with the Baseline Reform

Act of 2012. I am pretty sure the Senate won’t bring this to a vote. That in itself would give congress more accountability in controlling spending.

Bush and Cronies spent too much. But the conservative revolution regarding fiscal responsibility is starting to take hold. If conservatives get control, you will see cuts in a lot of areas. People love these ideas until it affects them. Then they change their minds quite often.

I mean, if we have to live under the ACA, I really think members of the House and Senate should also.

I don’t see Romney as a fiscal conservative. I see a business man who was a governor. I get the feeling if he is elected he will curb spending in certain areas, work on trade disparities, loosen some regs and at least keep the Bush tax cuts or even lower them, plus he will tell Russia and China to go jump in a lake. I think he might even be willing to work with Democrats on a couple of issues. At least we don’t view Mitt as a God.

In fact, why won’t Obama and crew shrink government? The Republicans are not in charge of the Senate or the Presidency. Why won’t the Democrats do it? Why won’t they even pass a real budget? Seriously, Continuing Resolutions? Reality dictates that we (both parties) can’t keep spending. 5 Trillion more in Debt = OwnBama

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[JanS]

Rich…the ACA and congress…you’ll be getting your wish..

yet another reason that I asked in another thread if you really know what the ACA does…a lot of people don’t. They hear Obamacare, and oh, it must be bad, it has his name on it…

http://billingsgazette.com/news/opinion/editorial/gazette-opinion/gazette-opinion-what-aca-repeal-would-do-for-congress/article_bd84ff20-f365-56e2-a4ea-8c51e8639bcb.html

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[redblack]

JV: thank you. your reaction to me using willard’s first name had the desired effect. i didn’t expect it to give birth to 30 posts, but, “well, there you go again.”

anyway, call obama anything you like. it doesn’t bother me a whit, and it never has. call him barry. call him hussein. call him the messiah. (personally, i like that one.) paint him yellow and call him a taxi. we both know why you do it.

it’s the same reason that i do this:

it’s called “negative connotation,” and it’s as old as psychology itself.

the difference is that i seem to have struck a nerve. and it makes me smile to watch you squirm for a change.

that’s politics, baby. you win some, you lose some.

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[redblack]

anyway, enough of the side show.

i’ll reiterate what i said: republicans have hamstrung this president by digging their heels in. give pelosi some credit; at least she got some legislation signed by bush.

what do we have with republican majority in the house? hmm? any legislation on immigration reform? jobs? trade deals? any legislation that will fix the economy? any ideas at all? no?

no. we have legislation about women’s uteri, 31 attempts to repeal ACA, and a bunch of worthless hearings over fast and furious because eric holder is going after crooked and stupid voter ID laws in the red states. republicans won’t be satisfied until obama’s head rests on a pike on the white house lawn – as a reminder for democrats to not get too uppity. they’re angry because obama refused to bend to their will and cut domestic spending, even after TARP and the two money-sucking wars. that’s why republicans did so much deficit spending in the first place: they think democrats will be so busy cleaning up their messes that we won’t have the time or the will to spend the political and economic capital that would help us achieve government that works for everyone – and not just those who buy themselves twelve lobbyists and a couple of congressional seats.

keep calling obama weak, ’cause i understand that’s what you have to do.

but you should realize that reality looks a little different.

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[jamminj]

“You know, there are whack jobs that support both parties.”

yes agreed, except the right tend to elect them to office.

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[jamminj]

Baseline Reform Act of 2012

“CBO estimates that enacting H.R. 3578, by itself,

would not have a significant impact on the federal budget.”

http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/hr3578.pdf

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