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May 28, 2012 at 7:11 pm #753680
redblackParticipanti never complain when gas hits $4/gallon, and i certainly don’t blame government – except for fossil fuel industry tax breaks while they reap record profits.
it’s the free market.
i do my part to bring down prices by driving a more fuel-efficient car and not succumbing to the typical short-sighted american love for the land yacht.
don’t like the high prices? blame yourselves as consumers.
May 28, 2012 at 7:43 pm #753681
JanSParticipantyou all do realize that Canadians are coming south over the border to buy our gas because the prices are way cheaper, don’t you? To them, we’re a bargain, even if not to us.It’s not only here, it’s everywhere…and you can’t blame Obama for that…or can you…because I honestly think that some of you would blame him for all the ills of all the world…
May 28, 2012 at 9:09 pm #753682
JoBParticipantkootch…
Just in case you hadn’t noticed…
Hawaii isn’t in the industrial NE
and yet.. in an abundance of sun and wind sits a coal plant…
but .. even in the industrial NE i am sure they shuttle excess power around that grid just like they do here…
at astronomical profit
both wind and solar are doable
they may not be the only option
but that sure doens’t stop them from becoming a viable option
May 28, 2012 at 11:46 pm #753683
kootchmanMemberDon’t like the mortgage defaults? Blame yourselves as consumers. we could carry the argument forever. Good, you don’t rely on fuel costs to run your business. That’s not part of your cost structure. But, for most of American industry it is. In the near term, energy costs will determine who retains their manufacturing base. China has solar panels and wind, as a step-up to a country that is rural and huge. For their rural population, that is a step up. They can’t afford to grid the entire nation, so they are doing as many developing nations are, wind and solar for small community power, i.e farms. They are building coal plants at the rate of 20 per year to electrify the big cities.. they are not using bird choppers or solar. We electrified the entire continent with the carrying capacity to deliver centrally generated power. Wind is not doable JoB for one reason, transmission is too expensive. It’s not the sewer plant that costs money, it is the collection system. Power “shuttling” is not that. Power is like any other “thing” you move. You lose some in transmission. Yea, I bet Hawaii would be delighted to see those bird choppers destroying the heart of their economy, view and vista. The LEAST effective transmission is on relatively low load transmission, like wind farms. It is not prime time caliber energy generation. If it was or is… take out a 20K loan and do your house… and cut the switch to Seattle City Light. Watch the high transmission lines sag in the summer… it’s the lost heat of transmission. There’s a lesson to be learned… imagine IF we went with solar 30 years ago… photvoltaic cells were 1/10 as efficient… and we still have not come close to storage to use commercially. The NE has hydro, nuclear, coal, and oil and natural gas. In centralized generation facilites. If they were viable, meaning cost effective, we would have them by choice not federal subsidy. It’s a porkasaseur program. This is the amazing thing about liberals… they will raise costs on everything, with some imaginings that those costs are not going t be passed on to them, or this magical 1% can absorb the costs of the peyote induced imaginings. BUT… ask them to kick in on the 15th of April… on nooooo… that’s on the 1 per cent. They think about Utopia… they just don’t want to pay for it. That’s why we need a flat tax. It’s so easy to spend other peoples resources. Yea Jan? and I drove the trans Canada in 1980 because the fuel was half the cost. OPEC embargoed us remember? we weren’t energy independent. That’s Canada .. who buys most of their refined materials from USA.. (thats US jobs) and frankly, I don’t care if Canada taxes its people to death… it’s their country. They also don’t allow mortgage deductions for home ownership..run that by the American homeowner, the NAHB, and the real estate industry… it would raise government revenues more than a surcharge on the 1%…. it’s a biggie. I would be fine with that… eliminate home mortgage deductions so we can be like Canada. They also run for the USA for better healthcare too.
May 29, 2012 at 1:45 am #753684
JoBParticipantkootch..
have you see the power generation plant on Kaui?
i have.
it is tucked away where few tourists wander
on a windy, barren sun soaked corner of the island that once grew sugar.
not what i would call pretty
and not so good for the environment either
the smog on Kaui isn’t caused by a volacano
May 29, 2012 at 4:05 am #753685
kootchmanMemberYea.. see that’s windpower…. you can’t hide it. It takes prime ridge and mountain terrain and destroys the view. Hawaii is very very liberal… why haven’t they changed?
On average, wind turbines operate 25% of the time.
Most wind power is generated at night, most power is consumed during the day
we can’t run an economy on power that is available 25% of the time. FYI… the worlds electricity output after 45 years of wind turbines? 3/10 of one per cent. That’s it.
May 29, 2012 at 4:15 am #753686
JoBParticipantkootch
wind generation on Kaui could share the same ridges as the radar towers…
you pretty much have to be in the air to see them
oh.. and it’s really really windy there
it’s where the air mass meets the land mass and rises…
May 29, 2012 at 1:10 pm #753687
redblackParticipanti realize that you like to put arguments in all-or-nothing, polar opposite scenarios, kootch – i’m not sure you can see any other way, frankly – but once again, no one is looking to replace fossil fuels right now. we want to supplement the fossil-fuel-generated electricity on the grid with more sustainable forms.
and if private industry doesn’t see a reason or a way to do that, then government will. with my blessing. and with the long-term goal of making those forms of generation more efficient.
because you can’t deny that fossil fuel extraction and use is dirty and largely poisonous to humans.
well, i suppose you could, kootch. but you would be wrong.
man. i know your case of obama derangement syndrome is acute, but have you been diagnosed with government derangement syndrome yet?
May 29, 2012 at 3:53 pm #753688
JoBParticipantredblack..
unfortunately, kootch’s government derangement syndrome preceded his obama derangement syndrome:(
he thinks making it impossible for our government to fulfill it’s obligations to it’s people is a good thing.
May 30, 2012 at 2:29 am #753689
kootchmanMemberIt hasn’t been doing a good job of late. It’s incompetent in the affairs of economics. It has to pass the smell test first… pandering.
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