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September 26, 2008 at 11:19 pm #640726
ZenguyParticipantNot at all. It is unfortunate we are in the place we are, largely due to deregulation thanks to John McCain and other Republicans.
I am not sure what the answer is, I am smart but do not pretend to have all the answers.
I work for WaMu and am feeling this very up close and personally. I am mad at so many people, but know I work hard and so do my friends and coworkers.
I think it stinks that Alan Fishman can come in to WaMu, be there for three weeks, sell the company to Chase and get millions for it.
I do not have children, but still feel like I have a responsibility to leave this world in better shape than when I came into it.
September 26, 2008 at 11:25 pm #640727
AnonymousInactiveThe email I shared earlier, imo, is genius.
I wish it were a solution worth exploring.
(well, actually it is – so I guess I should say that I wish it were a prospective possibility)
September 26, 2008 at 11:32 pm #640728
KenParticipantWhile the email attempts to make a complex problem simple to the point of simple minded, it does rest on one firm pillar of truth. If you added up all the defaulted mortgages, and those who might still be expected to default due to ARM’s, health emergency bankruptcies, self reported income (self employed, contract and commissioned workers) and even a few thousand out and out fraudulent mortgages, no one seems to think it would add up to the first 700 billion.
Most of the estimates I have seen can only add up the 170 to 350 billion (at the outside.
The banks are not worried about those defaults so much as the way the credit swap instruments were used by the banks to back the 30 to 40 times that amount they created out of thin air to loan out to other customers and trade on the stock market (where brokerage houses were also allowed to trade on up to 50% margin if not more)
The protections installed after the depression to avoid this kind of meltdown/ cash evaporation, were systematically removed from federal law as a direct result of the aftermath of the Newt Gingrich contract on America.
Conservatives, republicans, and DLC/bluedogs (including both Clintons) pushed this or at least helped grease the skids and we can only watch as the American dream slides into the past at an accelerated rate.
The banks wanted to be “too big to fail”. The Neocons are willing to let the banks fail anyway on the off chance that it will bankrupt the federal government to the point it could be “drowned in the bathtub” and the New Deal, social security, medicaid, and the threat of health care for all, can be pruned off easily.
September 26, 2008 at 11:32 pm #640729
mellaw6565MemberZen – I’m sure employees at WAMU are reeling from this. I talked to my fav at the Westwood Wamu today about it and she was trying to keep a good smile on her face about it all.
I don’t have the answers either, but like to think that their is a solution that could really help boost the lives of the people and stimulate the economy. I saw a plan today that was a mix of a small bailout to individuals plus injection of a lot of money in renewable energy which would immediately employ thousands.
There’s got to be an alternative – and unfortunately doing nothing is not a good one. What a mess!
September 27, 2008 at 12:42 am #640730
TammiWSMemberIsnt this only $425 per person? Not $425,000??
September 27, 2008 at 1:04 am #640731
WSBKeymasterGrr posted it a couple nights ago and asked that I delete it after I pointed that out. The math done by whomever originated the mass forward is bad.
September 27, 2008 at 1:38 am #640732
mellaw6565MemberWell, there’s 300 million people in the U.S. – so at $1 million dollars/each that’s still a lot cheaper than $700 billion!
September 27, 2008 at 1:38 am #640733
mellaw6565MemberThe problem with the current bailout proposals is that none of them address the bad corporate behavior and CEO compensation issues that caused this to happen in the first place. We’re just throwing good money after bad!
September 27, 2008 at 2:24 am #640734
KenParticipantBabies don’t write checks or pay taxes, at the moment.
The figure is 150 million wage earners used for most calculations.
September 28, 2008 at 6:13 am #640735
bcollinsMemberOkay…so it’s not popular and needs oversight, but it’s needed. The FACT is if you have a mortgage or line of credit or had either within the past 5 years…you got the benefit we will be paying for now through this bailout. Money was too available and interest rates were (are) too low…historicly low still. This is only possible through the easy money policies from the 90’s to now supported by the Fed.
Yeah, the bad guys got away with one. A big one in fact, only this time the good guys and gals did as well.
September 29, 2008 at 6:11 pm #640736
mellaw6565MemberBailout bill has been defeated in the house – yay!!!
Bailout the people – not the banks!!! Call your Representatives and ask them to give folks real help they can use now!!
September 29, 2008 at 6:13 pm #640737
mellaw6565MemberKen – those babies would be more secure in the future, be able to pay for higher education, which translates into higher paying jobs and innovation. It’s a “trickle up” theory.
September 29, 2008 at 7:16 pm #640738
Tonya42MemberHere is where the blame “lies” and if you don’t like to hear the truth then don’t watch it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs&eurl=http://ace.mu.nu/
September 29, 2008 at 7:23 pm #640739
Tonya42MemberOr for those, who prefer with music, there is this unique spin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5tZc8oH–o
Please, someone refute either or both, love to hear it.
September 29, 2008 at 7:26 pm #640740
mellaw6565MemberTonya – I don’t think anyone is disputing that Congress was part of the problem, not the solution.
The point now is not allowing Congress to create a bigger problem – so far their attempts to do so have failed.
September 29, 2008 at 8:20 pm #640741
mellaw6565MemberThe problem with buying any bailout plan is a matter of trust – I feel like we are post 9/11 again – “OMG, the sky is falling – let’s respond by attacking Iraq”!
I realize the economy is bad, but is it bad enough to warrant this type of bailout or is Congress acting on “bad intelligence” again funneled out by a bunch of Bush cronies?
September 29, 2008 at 10:27 pm #640742
WSratsinacageMemberNot directed at any one person on this blog but I love how everything is Bush’s fault. It’s always Bush and how he is profiting from this personally or because he is stupid even though he is briefed by some pretty intellignet people unless everyone is as dumb as he supposedly is. I have a family connection to Gates. He is no dummy. FWIW, the Bush’s fault line was old about 7 years ago. Thanks.
September 29, 2008 at 11:06 pm #640743
AnonymousInactiveYou’ll notice it’s only Bush’s fault when it’s not Clinton’s.
September 30, 2008 at 12:00 am #640744
TrickParticipantI fault the loopholes and deregulation of the lending practices that created this mess. It falls with Dem’s as much as Repub’s.
What isn’t productive is the mudslinging, finger pointing that appears to be from the ones not involved in the banking committee’s negotiations.
However, I do like accountability.
For example the $9 billion that disappeared without any repercussions or investigation. That is the President’s job, who then pressures the state department, but that was never done and in most cases discouraged.
George is President, and with that recognition comes responsibility and leadership which he’s completely failed at, along with many members of Congress on both sides of the aisles.
September 30, 2008 at 12:15 am #640745
mellaw6565MemberIt goes way back to several Presidents and Congress members – no one says its’ Bush’s fault completely, although his misguided war has cost us dearly.
My point was that it is hard to trust what the administration is doling out – that the economy is ready to collapse without solid data to show that this huge bailout will address the issues that caused it. I think Congress is figuring out that the “sky is falling” approach isn’t necessarily the way to go.
September 30, 2008 at 12:22 am #640746
TrickParticipantmellaw,
For good reason, I agree.
Bush has lost any credibility not just within his own party, but 80% of the population.
However, I am concerned that the “Just let the chips fall as they may” could really spiral down in the most of ugly ways.
September 30, 2008 at 12:25 am #640747
mellaw6565MemberI don’t believe in letting the chips fall either – but WHO they are bailing out, HOW MUCH they are bailing out and what restrictions are placed on the use of the money – those decisions are based in large part on information being funneled by the current administration. I think it’s not as immediate a crisis as they want us to believe and we can wait a few days, even weeks to figure out the best approach.
September 30, 2008 at 12:40 am #640748
flipjackParticipantThank God they voted that bullsh*t bailout down. I cannot believe the number of idiot democrats who voted FOR it!!! What idiots! Including Jim McDermott.
I’ll tell ya, it ain’t all Bushes fault for sure…It’s the spineless dumba** democrats who have lost any common sense who have let this administration run amok even after gaining a majority. Here is the tally for those interested:
September 30, 2008 at 12:41 am #640749
bcollinsMemberMellaw… You will find out.
September 30, 2008 at 12:58 am #640750
bcollinsMemberI can see it now…in the future we will have some whiners talking about how they have 10% plus interest rates on their Home Loans, they have to put money down when buying a car (let alone 20% when buying a house) and their current equity lines of credit have been reduced or eliminated. Don’t forget as I said in my prior message…this bailout is to pay for the fact that money was too cheap and available for years. We’ve all felt the benefits. We will all feel the pain if a bailout does not go through.
I am not a supporter of CEO golden parachutes…but that is a problem for all companies, not just Banking…let’s pass compensation limits for ALL CEO’s. If you are pissed…focus there. Not on your own nose, if you know what I mean.
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