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  • #706420
    JoB
    Participant

    Carson…

    my trouble is that i have seen the other side of it…

    mom’s was the safe house for our family’s battered women … she came from a very large family so we sheltered more than one woman while her drunk abusive spouse threatened to break the door down… so i guess it was natural that i volunteered in a shelter

    my sister-in-law is a nurse in an inner city emergency room while my brother patrolled the streets for 20+ and i have heard more than i ever wanted to about what happens when people get drunk and stupid.

    my best friend is the child of an abusive alcoholic and was married to one for too many years. they produced two wonderful sons who are waging their own battles with alcohol.

    My dad was an alcoholic and i am sure that i managed to consume my lifetime allowance of alcohol by the time i was 40.

    I lost a husband to a drunk driver.

    I have nieces, nephews and a grandson at university pursuing their party credentials at least as vigorously as they are pursuing their grades… and all have reported taking friends to the emergency room for alcohol poisoning.

    And ours is a pretty normal well adjusted successful family with no alcoholics or jailbirds or wifebeaters …

    I agree that adults make their own choices about alcohol and are responsible for any violence that is precipitated by drinking.

    but i can also see that those who drink are not the only ones who pay the consequences of bad decisions..

    even if you don’t have a single alcoholic in your extended family or circle of friends.. you are still affected by the problems created when others drink too much.

    While i would never endorse prohibition…

    I just can’t see any good reason to increase the risks and costs of alcohol related violence and health problems …

    and that is exactly what increasing availability does..

    it’s too expensive.. both socially and financially

    i know i won’t change your mind..

    but i hope i can cause some of those reading to think a little more before marking their ballots…

    i am guessing we have both already marked ours:)

    ****

    btw..

    for those of you who will jump to the conclusion that i have a personal vested interest in stopping the rest of you from drinking because i no longer do…

    i have chronic fatigue syndrome and i stopped drinking because i can’t tolerate alcohol. One or two sips gives me the hangover from h*ll and i don’t get over it for a week or two if i am lucky.

    the buzz simply isn’t worth the price i pay for drinking… but oh do i miss a glass of wine with dinner and the occasional shot of tequila:(

    i would feel the same way about this initiative even if I could lift a glass to it’s defeat…

    #706416
    JoB
    Participant

    Carson…

    blame the batterer…

    and blame the drunk..

    and blame the kids..

    and blame the store owners who don’t provide better security or check ID better

    and blame whoever supplies those kids with false IDs

    and blame the adult who purchases booze for kids

    and blame the legislature for not stepping in fast enough to create new liqour laws

    and blame ????

    blame anyone and anything else …

    except increasing the availability of hard liquor..

    even when there is a proven connection between availability and violence?

    People in Washington aren’t the magical exception to the rule.

    This convenience is going to come with a very high price tag.

    One we can’t afford.

    #706413
    Carson
    Participant

    I don’t drink and hit my wife, at best, I fall asleep and snore too much. Its a risk I am willing to take. Stop blaming the bottle and blame the batterer please. The head in the sand, hide the bottle from the alcoholic approach has never worked.

    #706147
    metrognome
    Participant

    JoB — maybe I’ll wear my parochial school outfit of salt-and-pepper cords and white short-sleeved shirt and get a crew cut …

    #706406
    DP
    Member

    JoB: You are correct! (There. I said it.)

    You are correct that buying liquor at stores is a convenience. And you are correct that it will cost lives.

    But then, the same thing can be said of driving on the highway.

    Consider this analogy:

    If we lower the speed limit to 45 mph, more people will live. Conversely, if we raise it to 75 mph, more people will die.

    So the speed limit is also an example of trading the lives of a few for the convenience of the many.

    Now consider how the speed limit analogy differs from selling liquor in private stores.

    If we raise the speed limit to 75 mph, the lives lost will be determined primarily by chance. Similarly, if we sell whiskey at 7-11s, more people will also die, but most of those people will be alcoholics and/or lawbreakers. In other words, they will not be determined by chance.*

    I know this sounds harsh, but when people weigh their convenience against the lives of those who have an addiction, or those who choose to break the law, convenience usually wins.

    It’s more of an emotional thing, really. Not a rational one.

    Sorry.

     

     

    *Obviously, I’m excluding innocent DUI victims from this equation. I think they will not constitute the majority of victims, though.

    #706401
    Ken
    Participant

    re 1107:

    I drink a lot of Diet coke. This tax affects me.

    However, when the giant beverage companies supply 100% of the financing to create, gather signatures and run hundreds of misleading ads to get rid of it, I smell a rat. I gotta vote NO.

    English majors. Did I use “affects” right in the above sentence? I am always unsure…

    #706400
    Ken
    Participant

    RE 4220 “Dangerousness”

    Article I, section 20. All persons charged with crime shall be bailable by sufficient sureties, except for capital offenses when the proof is evident, or the presumption great. Bail may be denied for offenses punishable by the possibility of life in prison upon a showing by clear and convincing evidence of a propensity for violence that creates a substantial likelihood of danger to the community or any persons, subject to such limitations as shall be determined by the legislature.

    Thus the state could enter evidence at the bail hearing to show why alleged perp should not be allowed bail. Previous law could only address flight risk. That’s my reading of it anyway

    Text of bill in pdf format.

    http://wei.secstate.wa.gov/osos/en/PreviousElections/2010/general/Documents/ESHJR%204220%20complete%20text.pdf

    #706399
    Ken
    Participant

    Waterworld: Even the 34th district split on this race. That’s why the dual endorsement.

    I have seen to many people slide on DUI’s based on the cost of their lawyer in some courts. I think Hurtado is still needed to annoy the DUI lawyers. Like many opinions, mine is not necessarily justifiable with strict logic…

    If you think different then that’s why we have elections. :)

    Go with your gut and I’ll go with mine :)

    #706391
    JustSarah
    Participant

    I am definitely not trying to minimize your opinion on I-1100, Ken, but here are some excerpts from The Stranger refuting the common arguments against I-1100:

    “Argument 1: This will cost the state money because we forgo the markup on liquor. That’s true, but the cost to the state budget is only about $15–$17 million a year (a token sum compared to the billion-dollar deficits we’re facing). And two years after we pass this, the legislature can reinstate some of that markup in the form of a tax increase—meaning the state can get that money back and more—so the revenue loss is minimal and temporary.

    “Argument 2: Minors will be able to buy hard liquor. There may be more noncompliance at the convenience stores, true. But let’s compare Washington to another state that has privatized liquor. California has an underage-drinking rate of 26.3 percent of teenagers, far below Washington’s 31.3 percent rate, according to the federal government’s Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. California’s binge-drinking rates are also much lower. And with our state out of the liquor-selling business, the liquor control board can focus on what it’s good at: enforcement.”

    Also:

    “Anyone who tells you that the legislature will pass a better law on its own or that a party who doesn’t have a financial stake in privatizing liquor will run a better initiative next year is lying to you. The legislature will never act, and someone’s bound to turn a profit when the state gets out of a business it sucks at running and never should have been in to begin with.”

    #706389
    Ken
    Participant

    I am voting no in 1100. I am pretty sure it will pass since it is state wide, but quite a few of my friends are still alive in rural WA because they could not go to the 7-11 when they finished that bottle of vodka.

    the state revenue thing is also a consideration.

    I would like to see the legislature handle the transition with some restrictions and some tax transfers.

    Blend
    Participant

    I would advise against getting a chupy off of Craigslist. There is a man on there who is getting them for free and charging huge adoption fees for them. These chupys are usually sick and will demand you get them HBO and large buckets of popcorn. They are lazy and a hassle and will be more trouble than they are worth!

    #706363
    WSB
    Keymaster

    Mlyn – since nobody’s replied yet (Sundays can be slow), I’m just posting to note that we do have a plumber on the WSB sponsor team, Sweeney’s Plumbing, 206-551-6465.

    https://westseattleblog.com/2010/01/sweeneys-plumbing-welcoming-a-new-west-seattle-blog-sponsor

    vortex2.71
    Member

    Free Wood – Plywood, 2x4s, 4x4s, 2x6s, and 2x8s. Email for address and you can come and get it. Just don’t get hurt picking it up as we are not responsible and leave any remains as tidy as you found them. Most is in good condition. Nails and screws have been removed but watch out for stray ones that we could have missed.

    Check out the craigslist add for pictures and email address: http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/zip/2018894129.html

    #706141
    metrognome
    Participant

    Well, I guess I’m gonna be fired and have my name plastered all over the media for the interview I gave on certain liberal-leaning radio show. They invited me as a representative of a certain conservative news organization owned by someone some people call a foreign-born extremist. After being plied with espresso and harrassed by these liberals for at least 15 seconds, I finally broke down and confessed that when I am on an airplane and see someone wearing an obvious crucifix boarding, I wet myself because I start thinking of all the wars started in the name of this religion and all the people who have been heinously murdered in the Crusades and the Inquisition and the Salem Witch Trials and the KKK lynchings in the South and all the religious paramilitary groups that supported Tim McVeigh and abortion clinic bombers and doctor murderers and all the indigenous people around the world who have had their native religion beaten out of them by missionaries… And don’t get me started about how I feel when the boarding passenger is a male of Jewish persuasion and is wearing a yarmulke … Gee, I wonder if NPR wants to pay me $3mil to work for them …

    #706308
    JoB
    Participant

    Carson…

    you don’t think that Smitty will answer that one honestly do you?

    Either he thinks she is…

    or he really wants to sell the idea that she is to those who aren’t smart enough to figure it out for themselves.

    either way he isn’t likely to answer that one…

    of course he could counter that it is sexist to assume that she isn’t smart enough to govern since she obviously is smart enough to parlay her nomination into a highly lucrative career as a celebrity for both herself and her daughter… a fitting example for young republican girls everywhere..

    it appears ignorance and unwed motherhood can really pay off… who needs school?

    and who needs and educated populace anyway.. too politically unreliable…

    as long as someone… somewhere in the world… is educating workers.

    #706140
    JoB
    Participant

    I just listened to a story on a NPR station about the firing of Juan Williams that added some interesting information.

    It turns out that as far as the comments he made are concerned.. he was the victim of selective editing.. had the clip run on to the next comment Juan was making the same point i made…

    It also turns out that his relationship with NPR was troubled long before that remark and they used the public outrage at the edited clip as an excuse either to simply not renew his contract or to fire him.

    the information on the piece i listened to wasn’t clear.

    As for his new job.. he has been offered a lucrative job by FOX which it appears he has not yet taken..

    shame on the selective editing that created this controversy.. and shame on FOX news for making much ado over his firing for all the wrong reasons.

    kudos to a writer at Slate for looking further…

    and my apologies to Juan Williams for my assumption that he wanted to break his contract…

    DP…

    “If somebody was really “coming for us,” wouldn’t they have gotten here by now?”

    “they” have gotten here…

    have you looked at your retirement accounts lately?

    “They” are going after social security next.

    #706301
    DP
    Member

    Here’s an alternative point of view. It’s an article from the Associated Press that looks at what could be a trend: employers dropping existing coverage in favor of government-subsidized plans.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101024/ap_on_re_us/us_employer_health_plans

    From the article:

    The new health care law wasn’t supposed to undercut employer plans that have provided most people in the U.S. with coverage for generations.

    But last week a leading manufacturer told workers their costs will jump partly because of the law. Also, a Democratic governor laid out a scheme for employers to get out of health care by shifting workers into taxpayer-subsidized insurance markets that open in 2014.

    Apparently Obama thought single-payer (or even a strong public option) wouldn’t fly, so he didn’t fight for it. The result was a system that leaves the market very much in place but tells providers what products they must provide, without doing anything to limit prices.

    Consider this new rule, in place now, that says there can be no lifetime cap on coverage. Does anyone seriously think insurance companies are going to say, Oh well. Looks like we’ll just have to swallow the cost of that.

    —No. Of course not. Insurance companies are simply going to pass that extra expense along to all their insureds. In the same way, employers are going to pass THEIR new costs along to employees. And what’s to stop them? Nothing in the Obama plan, unfortunately. In fact, if the cost of providing insurance or complying with regs becomes an undue burden, employers may simply drop coverage all together, telling their workers: Sorry, folks. You’re on your own now.

    Also from the AP article:

    “The economics of dropping existing coverage is about to become very attractive to many employers, both public and private,” said Gov. Phil Bredesen, D-Tenn.

    Is this really going to happen in a big way? No one knows. But I think there is cause for concern. In any case, the next two years will tell us whether Mr. Obama’s decision to go halfway on health care was a good idea or not.

    I say it was not a good idea. Obama and the Dems shouldna sold us out on the public option. And now they’re gonna find out why . . .

    – David

    P.S. Is this maybe a good time to talk about how we could have paid for a public health care option with the money we’re wasting on war?

    Oh, it’s not?

    Sorry.

    #706138
    JoB
    Participant

    DP..

    i watched a middle aged man being frogstepped through the airport a couple of years after 911 for no other reason than being of mid-eastern descent.

    that is racism.

    and yes, i am sure because I also watched the same man being returned to his American wife without any trace of apology… both professors on a trip home to bury his father.

    I was thoroughly ashamed of us that day..

    all of us.

    walk down our city streets and pick out the muslims and then ask yourself just what criteria you used.

    Who do you think Juan Williams was talking about when he said he feared people who looked obviously muslim to him?

    Racists gave up wearing white hoods when right wing conservatism made racism acceptable … as long as you backpedaled when confronted.

    “oh.. i don’t mean all of them even though that’s what i said.. i just meant some of them.”

    I have news for you DP.

    We are them.

    they just haven’t come for us yet.

    #706271
    WSB
    Keymaster

    I have combed the aforementioned 911 logs and not a peep. If nobody texts or calls us about something big, they’re usually pretty reliable, and I was up till 6 am. City Light didn’t say thousands at any point – they have a tweet from about 5 am saying four customers in White Center –

    http://twitter.com/SEACityLight/status/28585831005

    Nothing on their Power Lines site, which always mentions major outages

    http://powerlines.seattle.gov/

    But yes, once in an extremely rare while, for the 100 times we have something you’ll never see on citywide media, they will have something first, and if you ever see that, I implore you to please consider calling or texting us at the 24-hour line 206-293-6302. This morning, I was up till 6 dealing with all manner of ridiculousness but none of this was on the scanner; the early watch usually picks right up after that, but he slept in because that crud that’s been going around was trying to smack him (I am the only person in the house who hasn’t had it).

    #706135
    JoB
    Participant

    kg..

    you are right of course…

    the term muslim identifies a religion

    and not a race

    but Juan’s comment was still racist because it was not used to identify people who practice a particular religion

    after all.. what does a muslim look like?

    but an ethnic subgroup which encompasses the larger middle east region…

    That is exactly what is so wrong about what Juan Williams said…

    he was not identifying people by what they thought or what they believed..

    but how they looked.

    you might as well say you are uneasy every time someone with a close cut haircut drives up to make a delivery because Timothy McVey chose to wear his buzz cut…

    or you are uneasy every time someone who wears a cross approaches because those people bomb abortion clinics and kill doctors

    or you are uneasy every time someone who wears a crucifix is near because their priests molested young boys…

    or…

    THAT is the point.

    Smitty…

    you can play the semantics game

    it’s like trashing the messenger game

    the tactic may distract temporarily

    but it doesn’t make your point.

    nanananana is not an argument.

    either you know better

    or you don’t

    more thinking and less parroting please

    #706134
    Smitty
    Participant

    How is it racist? Is “Muslim” a race?

    #706133
    kg
    Participant

    Since it seems a majority of the comments in this thread are equating Muslim/Islam to a race I would hereby like everyone to now equate every other religion, including Atheists with a separate race.

    DP
    Member

    Yeah, thanks for the info, JanS.

    Relative to most TV talk shows, we do a pretty good job of keeping it civil here on the Blog. I think we’ve got a pretty good balance of facts to rhetoric, but it could probably be tilted a little more in the facts direction. But then, would it still be a blog? ;-)

    Speaking of religion, I sometimes wonder how far we can (or ought to) go in discussing the question of religion and religious motivation for violence, because I can see people’s feelings getting seriously hurt over that, and I don’t want to do that.

    All for now. Gotta run to the toilet now. ;-)

    #706268
    datamuse
    Participant

    Maybe. It might be worth mentioning that we had a power outage at our home in Highland Park sometime between one a.m. and five a.m.; we were asleep but I woke up and saw the clock was blinking. Maybe a branch hit a line or a transformer blew or something.

    #706132
    JoB
    Participant

    HMCRich..

    there is a difference between editorializing and making inflammatory racist comments…

    Jaun Williams didn’t editorialize.

    He didn’t “talk about his feelings” on his own show or others on NPR..

    He chose to visit a conservative talk show on a conservative station and tell America that he was afraid of people who were openly muslim.

    change the word muslim to short or fat or blue eyed or short haired or unemployed …. and you might be able to understand what was wrong with that comment.

    then again.. your personal filter might be broken and you won’t get it at all… as your comments on sexism show a total lack of understanding of those issues as well.

    Juan Williams wasn’t invited to O’Reilley’s show as an individual.. he was invited as a NPR commentator… and as such.. if he wanted to retain his job… he knew better than to make racist comments.

    It’s obvious from his earlier comments that he understands the issues of racism very well…

    so i am guessing he wanted to break his contract and make points with his new employer.

    Trivializing racism and sexism as “sensitivity” simply perpetuates them.

    Who is ignoring the obvious here?

    FOX news doesn’t stop at trivializing the issue.. they choose to inflame for political leverage.

    As long as they can keep the have-nots and “poor downtrodden” American males angry they can capitalize on that anger to convince you to vote against your own best interests.

    You didn’t see the light Rich…

    You bought a con job…

    and it is clouding your senses.

Viewing 25 results - 16,101 through 16,125 (of 25,957 total)