How much time and (street) space will the new Fauntleroy ferry dock save? Community Advisory Group reviews traffic-analysis report

By Tracy Record
West Seattle Blog editor

A matter of time and space dominated the latest meeting of the Community Advisory Group that Washington State Ferries convenes when there’s something new to discuss about planning the Fauntleroy dock expansion/replacement.

In this case, the main agenda item for last night’s online meeting was the analysis of how the various alternative dock size/shapes under consideration (see them here) would affect the time needed for loading/unloading and the space taken up by vehicles queueing along Fauntleroy Way.

From the meeting presentation, here’s where the project planning is now:

WSF has not yet chosen a preferred size/shape alternative. That’s likely to happen next year, and detailed studies will ensue. Still lots to discuss before then – the first five in dark green here are what the group has asked to hear about:

The group’s long been asking for study results on potentially focusing the new terminal’s ticketing on Good To Go! passes and advance-purchase ticketing, wondering if that could affect the size/capacity needed for the new dock. WSF terminal-engineering director Dave Sowers explained what they’re studying. They’re hoping to have this information at the next meeting.

Also noted before the meeting got to the main topic, WSF environmental/permitting lead Marsha Tolon recapped toplines of concerns that have been voiced:

Group member Mardi Clements noted that Cove Park to the north of the dock is actually managed by King County because of its adjacent Barton Pump Station, and that the county has needed to use it multiple times in the past. Tolon said construction likely will require some temporary closures of the park.

Later in the meeting, WSF reps were reminded that they had told group members offline a few days earlier that they’re talking with King County about acquiring the beachfront house just north of Cove Park for use during the construction process.

(King County Assessor file photo)

The house is currently being rented and the tenant has been notified that WSF is interested in acquiring it – next step. Sowers said, is to have it appraised. (The house served as a project office during pump-station work in the mid-2010s.)

On to the traffic analysis (read the full report here):

Project consultant Mark Bandy presented these results. The study was meant to evaluate how the alternatives would affect load/unload time and the “extent of queueing.” That, Bandy said, provides a foundation for how Good To Go! and advance ticketing could play out in operation of the new dock. He also recapped WSF’s criteria for “on-time” (trips departing within 10 minutes) and systemwide “on-time” (95 percent of all trips meeting that; this route was just below that in the pre-pandemic years). Here’s the study context:

For further context, here are the sizes of the potential new-dock alternatives that remain under study, ranging from 30 percent more “overwater coverage” to 119 percent more:

The B and C alternatives had the fastest load/unload times:

Regarding queueing effects, alternatives B-1, B-2, and C showed little to no queueing in 2040 projections, for both weekdays and weekends:

In Q&A, questions included whether WSF took the work-at-home surge into account. “That’s one of the things we’re definitely seeing in our travel patterns,” said Bandy, and in some cases that makes midday the busiest time – bottom line, they’re not sure how this will play out. One group member asked for elaboration on how certain alternatives will save time – he says that even today, there are still cars left on the dock “when the arm goes down” before a ferry leaves (sometimes because it’s full, sometimes because it’s time to leave, it was clarified later). He disagrees that making room for more cars on the dock is going to speed up loading. He lives near the dock and “sees this every single day.” He challenged Bandy to come see it firsthand; Bandy said he has.

Fletcher Sandbeck described the idling that queueing leads to; Clements noted that idling happens on the dock too if extreme weather means cars have to run their A/C or heater. She also noted that WSF is using numbers for ticketed/nonticketed cars/riders that don’t have much separation, but “it’s stunningly different from what we were told before, and it’s a win for everybody if it’s true” – if there’s really only a 12-second discrepancy between processing times for ticketed and nonticketed riders. WSF executive Hadley Rodero explained that the numbers given to the previous Triangle Route advisory group years ago were “draft” numbers and “estimates” – “these numbers now are more refined.” Bandy reiterated that the Triangle Route is ‘already heavily pre-ticketed’ – 60 percent, in general.

Group member Gary English noted that overhead passenger loading might save significant time. He voiced the concern that he’s not “hearing the emphasis on dwell time that I hoped to hear” in these study results. Sowers agreed that overhead loading works well – safer, too – at some terminals, and “we’ve done some estimating here” on how it might save load/unload time for the Fauntleroy dock.

Group member Victoria Nelson noted that pedestrian/bicycle load times are “nearly identical” for all alternatives and that overhead loading would save less than two minutes. Bandy said that number was based on a study of how long it takes now (handling those ferry riders before and after vehicles).

Group member Frank Immel said he’d recently been on the ferry from Southworth and noted that the Kitsap Transit foot ferry seemed busy; the staff there told him 400 use it daily to get to and from downtown Seattle.

Group member Scott Harvey suggested that boats aren’t able to load at full capacity because of dock constraints, given how the dual-destination lineups have to be arranged, and he suggested that a dock with more capacity will assist with that.

Group member Justin Hirsch said that “if WSF is going to rely on” some cars continuing to queue on Fauntleroy Way, then in his view, WSF has to “actively manage” that traffic somehow. Sowers noted that “we have this issue at most of our ferry terminals” and since it’s a city street, the city is accountable for managing it.

Clements observed that it appears some street queueing will be unavoidable no matter what.

English asked if the research only considered a three-boat schedule, and the project team said yes, since they’re hopeful that by the time this is built and new boats are coming online, two-boat (or worse, one-boat) days will be far fewer.

Immel wondered if WSF could also do this analysis for other sailings, since it just addressed two sailings – what happens to the remaining queue after those two sailings? “It’s queued all day long” currently, he pointed out.

English wondered if there’s ever a chance there will be larger boats on the Triangle Route. Short answer, WSF says, no, they expect that even in 2040, they’ll run three 124-vehicle ferries (as is the plan now when the fleetwide boat shortage is alleviated).

WHAT’S NEXT: The project team says the meeting with Good To Go!/advance-ticketing info will likely be in late August/early September. … A video recording of this meeting will eventually be added to this page; that’s also where you can register to observe the online meeting tomorrow (1 pm Thursday, July 18) of the Technical Advisory Group for the project.

13 Replies to "How much time and (street) space will the new Fauntleroy ferry dock save? Community Advisory Group reviews traffic-analysis report"

  • Alex July 17, 2024 (9:43 pm)

    I appreciate all the analysis but can it be dumbed down a little – the line is the most obnoxious when the queue is all the way up to the gas station.  How many cars is that (they throw out 143 cars but don’t say what the north point is) – then say what is the square footage the dock needs to increase to take that queue off the street.  I used to think it would be a shame to increase the dock size but over the years, after so many near misses of being hit and seeing people cut the line,  I’m starting to think the goal is to take back Fauntleroy. 

    • Andy July 18, 2024 (8:53 am)

      I agree with Alex regarding taking back Fauntleroy. The long queues make accessing and using Lincoln Park less pleasant and less safe for everyone, in particular those of us who walk/bike to the park. What would be most fair would be to take all the cars off that road, put them on the dock, and then raise prices on the car ferry passengers to recoup whatever the difference in cost between options A and C are.

    • Kyle July 18, 2024 (3:24 pm)

      Agreed, get the cars off the street as much as possible. It’s a mess down there pretty much everyday. The bigger dock would be the best for the neighborhood and safer for all.

  • Bbron July 18, 2024 (11:08 am)

    amazing that one of the primary goals of this is to get cars off the street when queuing, but time has shown again and again that adding car capacity anywhere draws in additional cars that weren’t coming there before. adding lanes or space for cars is an exceedingly temporary solution, and i have no doubt that a large queue on Fauntleroy will be back soon after opening a larger dock as more folks decide to drive. i hope WSB corrects me and that these talks have included adjustments to ticket pricing , but as far as i can tell it’s never been brought up. pricing modification to adjust demand is all but free; make walk-ons free and/or adjust car pricing to get closer to the true cost of transporting it on the ferry. it’s wild that all the infrastructure and resources used to load cars, and it’s only about the cost of an additional adult rider; ludicrous. so much less impact to adjust and increase public transit offerings around the triangle’s terminals.

    • Susan July 18, 2024 (12:51 pm)

      Despite strong pushback and creative ideas from the community, WSF has no intention of addressing the 80% single occupant vehicles on the Triangle because it would be of no benefit to them.  🙄 😡            I’m not making it up… that was established at the previous meeting of the Community Advisory Group and WSF.

    • Ivan Weiss July 18, 2024 (2:04 pm)

      @BBron: I don’t know if your goal is to out-Jort Jort with your borderline hysterical anti-car screeds, or what? But you seem utterly oblivious to one cold fact. Vehicles that use Washington State Ferries pay the highest percentage in “farebox recovery” of the cost of the service of any transportation mode in the state. It has  been the case since Eyman and Gary Locke gutted the Motor Vehicle Excise Tax. Look it up if you don’t believe it. Moreover, that percentage continues to rise. So I can only conclude that you don’t know what the F you’re talking about.

      • Bbron July 18, 2024 (5:07 pm)

        nice response! only most of it was ad hominin :) i find it interesting i get the label of hysteric. which particular part of my comment makes
        you feel like it’s coming from a place of hysterics? or at least let me know how the history around car infrastructure capacity increases not working or recommending fare adjustments as a solution can be seen as an “anti-car screed” and not simply economics? one of my ideas is free walk on fare to incentivize it, so how would that be “anti-car”? anyway, i’m glad you brought up “farebox recovery” in regards to cars! WSF’s farebox recovery has been on a downward trend post recovery and for 2023 was 50%, yet for Amtrak in WA (which only serves on foot passengers) came in at 60% the same year. WSF has reported that vehicle boarding have almost recovered to 2019 levels, yet on foot is still lagging. so, in 2019 WSF had a farebox recovery of 72.5% for it’s mix of boardings at the time, but now is at 50% with a relative mix much more tilted towards cars. to me, this shows that an increase in vehicles in terms of ratio of ferry cargo does not correlate to getting the farebox recovery ratio closer to 100%; it does the opposite: the higher the ratio of vehicles in your cargo, the higher cost-per-passenger and lower farebox recovery ratio. but even then, your point is confusing b/c if vehicles cause the most amount of work in a system (for the ferries, the majority of their dock labor, and all of the timing around load/unload is required only by car boardings) then they for sure should be giving the most back in fares. if it wasn’t, it would be even worst than it already is. what do these numbers mean to you? you stated “Moreover, [farebox recovery] percentage continues to rise”, but from WSF’s own reports it is continuing to fall (source). finally, i’m confused why you brought up the MVET being gutted at all because it’s a blatant example of cars not paying their fair share to cover infrastructure expenses, or that ferries are the best in terms of farebox recovery as a pro-car stance when all it indicates is that the rest of the infrastructure cars use is heavily subsidized by everyone. looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

    • Kyle July 18, 2024 (3:27 pm)

      You should advocate for overhead loading for pedestrians then and a better terminal for pedestrians. I’m in favor of those improvements too, but common sense says to seize the opportunity to build the biggest dock. This isn’t a lane on a freeway. The queue line is not going to get smaller whether the cars wait on the street or in a smaller footprint on a dock. Let’s have them queue on the dock for the safety of all.

    • Brooke July 19, 2024 (6:40 pm)

      As a Vashon resident, the thing that has changed my car usage patterns the most is the extension of the fast ferry to an all-day schedule. Commuting on foot to Fauntleroy is bit of a pain with the lack of transit infrastructure in West Seattle–getting to the airport from the dock, for instance, is a two-bus trip or a pricey taxi. With sailings into the downtown docks coming more regularly, I can access the light rail from the boat, and that means i can walk or bike almost my entire commute to just about anywhere I need to go, though I frequently end up driving from my home to the north end dock. I think you make excellent points about car dependency, but the transit around Fauntleroy could really stand to improve for pedestrians on the land-based side as well.

      • Bbron July 21, 2024 (10:04 am)

        thank you for sharing your experience, Brooke, and what’s been working for you. i agree that improving transit at all ferry terminals would need to be improved as well. it’s great to hear that the fast ferry’s schedule expansion has worked out so well. more opportunities to run ferries solely for walk on folks would be great trialed more of around here.

  • Dr. $ July 18, 2024 (2:33 pm)

    Wow! This is where are WSDOT dollars go. Studies. Just build the dock that holds the most cars. And get a Good To Go system in place.

  • Eldorado July 18, 2024 (4:22 pm)

    What’s the point of improving the dock and traffic improvements if there’s only one boat actually running properly on any given day. 

  • WS Troll July 19, 2024 (11:35 am)

    I would agree with a larger dock if there was some commitment from WSF to deal with the traffic and the overflow onto the street.  Instead all we get is WSF washing their hands of the problem at the end of the dock.  WSF needs to be held financially responsible for effects of the increased traffic they bring to the area.  If that means paying Seattle PD to patrol the ferry line during commuting hours and at other times of high use, then so be it.  Without an aggressive ticketing strategy to deal with line cutters and driveway blockers the problems will never go away – no matter how big you build the dock.   WSF will not even be proactive and try to get SPD and SDOT in the same room together to solve these problems.  Instead WSF wants to dump a boat load of single occupant vehicles on Seattle streets and make it somebody else’s problem – all the while claiming that ferry ridership is expected to increase by 2040.   Look at the Operational Efficiency graphic … What is WSF willing to commit to if they are unable to achieve those numbers?   If they build the biggest dock they can and fail to meet their numbers, are they willing to shut down one of the routes and make Fauntleroy a single destination terminal?  Are they willing to position somebody at the end of the dock who says “sorry no more space, keep driving, you can’t queue up on Fauntleroy”?? Why should West Seattle deal with this abuse from WSF?  During commuting hours we want to see multi-occupancy vehicles!  Start charging for empty seats in cars during commuting hours.  Make the ferry riders be a part of the solution to traffic in Fauntleroy and in West Seattle.  

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