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March 23, 2012 at 3:37 pm #752122
JVMemberI wouldn’t pee on BO’s doorstep because I don’t hate the guy.
I think he is a terrible president who is far underqualified to run anything, a committed leftist, and he is hurting this country, and our childrens’ futures…but I don’t hate him.
I’m sure he is a good dad, a good husband, and I’d probably enjoy having a beer with him and discussing why he is completely wrong on almost every issue.
That said, I think another 4 years of his “fundamental change” will hurt this country terribly…but I don’t hate him.
I think we need to replace him, and let him go back to community organizing, and hanging out with his radical, America-hating friends.
I’ll leave the peeing to you Redblack.
March 23, 2012 at 3:45 pm #752123
kootchmanMember4,000 Occupiers demonstrate… 10 missed work and none were late.
March 23, 2012 at 4:30 pm #752124
WorldCitizenParticipantMarch 23, 2012 at 4:46 pm #752125
dhgParticipantObama is a centrist. I wish he were a liberal but he’s not. Fox is hitting on the price of oil and blaming Obama for it but roll back the clock 4 years and fox and Bill’O were explaining how the Bush cannot possibly control the price of oil. These guys will say anything, true or not, to generate anger at the dems. The result is a large group of Americans who believe Obama is a Muslim, born outside the u.s.
March 23, 2012 at 4:47 pm #752126
kootchmanMemberIn that case… flip a coin in November. Can’t do any worse that what we have now.
March 23, 2012 at 4:56 pm #752127
DBPMemberJV . . . still waiting to hear the good news about what you’re doing ’round the ‘hood to make things better.
Frankly, I don’t care whether you’re liberal, conservative, or totally apolitical. One hour of you picking up trash at a local park is more valuable than a whole day spent criticizing others — even if your criticisms are valid.
I’m not saying people don’t have a right to squawk; Hell, squawking is an essential part of democracy. But I’d like to see a little more balance here. I’d like to hear more about what people are doing to SOLVE problems.
I’ve heard other people saying the same thing, lately. Just in different ways.
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Marvin: Will you marry me?
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March 23, 2012 at 8:22 pm #752128
JVMemberDbp, I’m involved in little league baseball and other sports with my kids here in West Seattle.
It’s more constructive than having them hold a sign outside of Chase bank.
I let them be kids, I don’t use them as my pawns for some cause.
March 23, 2012 at 8:25 pm #752129
SmittyParticipantJV, very admirable. But, please know that paying your taxes, obeying the law and not being a leech on society is good enough for me.
March 23, 2012 at 8:53 pm #752130
DBPMemberJV, thank you for answering my question.
As far as what’s the better way to be involved in one’s community, who knows whether it’s more constructive to teach kids to play baseball or to protest what one sees as social injustice. Honestly, I think that’s beyond the ability of either of us to say.
I could find things to criticize about Little League — especially when it comes to parent behavior at the games. I could find lots of things to criticize about sports in general, too. But I’m not going to, because that might have the effect of making you feel bad, or just generally bringing people down.
So no . . . Instead of criticizing you for trying to do something good with Little League, I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you’re the kind of Little League parent who has a healthy attitude toward children’s sports and who is benefitting your kid and your community.
It seems like the least you could do, in return for that consideration, is to give others in this community the same benefit of the doubt when it comes to their involvement with the cause of their choice. Don’t you think?
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Smitty: Your turn. You doing anything good . . . besides just “obeying the law and not being a leech” ?
;-)
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March 23, 2012 at 9:07 pm #752131
SmittyParticipantPaying for your unemployment, I assume.
Oh, and in addition to slinging poo I like to slap people in the face with pies and glitter bomb people I don’t agree with.
Does that count?
;~)
March 23, 2012 at 9:25 pm #752132
JanSParticipantwow…how effing condescending “paying for your unemployment, I assume”…just wow…
assuming…you know what they say..makes an ass out of U and me…
March 23, 2012 at 9:48 pm #752133
DBPMemberOK, Smits. Since you won’t answer the question, we’ll just assume that you do absolutely nothing to support your country, state, city, or neighborhood.
—No volunteer work
—No charitable contributions
—No civic participation
Nothing.
That’s fine. You’ll be pleased to know that you STILL meet the minimum quals for being an American citizen.
Who knows. Maybe you’ll even be President some day.
(Stranger things have happened.)
Â
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Don’t sweat it, Jan; Smitty’s just teasing.
And God knows I deserve it.
Â
March 23, 2012 at 10:42 pm #752134
casabobaMemberI’ve been to several Occupy / Occupy West Seattle meetings. The people attending the meetings are harmless. Just concerned citizens like yourselves. My guess is that they would support your right to free speech and assembly. Bash away, but whilst you are doing so you are missing the glorious weather outdoors.
March 23, 2012 at 11:11 pm #752135
dyn99ParticipantHey, I have a question:
What does the occupy movement actually stand for? I know that question has been asked before, but one of the major criticisms in the movement was that they were protesting without having actual demands.
So does anyone know what the demands are?
And how is that different on a national vs. state vs. Seattle vs. our neighborhood level? I’d really be curious to know…
March 23, 2012 at 11:15 pm #752136
JVMemberCasaboba, You should read post # 19.
Assuming you flung no poo, protesting is fine, and I’m sure the local Occupy franchise is just swell. I’m sure the local members of the skin heads would claim that they are completely different from their national reputation too…I woudn’t get close enough to them to find out…but I’m sure they’d say they are “just concerned citizens like yourselves.”
March 23, 2012 at 11:20 pm #752137
JVMemberDyn, each franchise will give you a different answer, but they don’t really stand for anything. They just want to tear down civilized society. So I guess you can say that they are FOR anarchy.
March 23, 2012 at 11:25 pm #752138
dyn99ParticipantI think it would be great to hear from someone locally who is involved what their demands are…
It’s easy to be against stuff. It’s harder to take a position, make it your own, and stick to it.
March 23, 2012 at 11:39 pm #752139
DBPMemberJV, you said:
I’m sure the local members of the skin heads would claim that they are completely different from their national reputation too…I woudn’t get close enough to them to find out…but I’m sure they’d say they are “just concerned citizens like yourselves.”
Dude, I’m not sure how this stuff sounds to you when you’re typing it, but look it over a couple times and think about the implications of what you’re saying here.
What you’re doing when you make an analogy like this is suggesting that people in the Occupy movement are somehow like skinheads — at least in the extremity of their views. Not a few people on this forum are going to be very insulted by that comparison, and rightly so.
Please be a little more circumspect with your language.
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dyn99: Did you know about the recent Occupy WS event at the Junction? Were you on the forums a couple months ago when there was a presentation at the WS Library? It was heavily promoted here, by me and others.
Those two events would have been excellent opportunities for you to talk to a local Occupy person directly. In any case, if you give me your e-mail, I can hook you up with someone in the movement and you can chat.
DP_Editor at comast dot net
March 23, 2012 at 11:43 pm #752140
SmittyParticipantDBP: Nah, I don’t have two Ivy League degrees and experience running a large State (not to mention one Ivy League degree, and year and a half in the Senate and lots of community organizing).
Truth be told, I do give at church (gasp – is that ok in N. Portlandia?) and give my “time and treasure” for Boys & Girls Club – and The Seattle Aquarium. Just treasure to the UW autism center.
And yes, tongue was firmly planted in cheek re: my unemployment comment. Still have lots of friends who cannot find work – I realize how difficult it is out there.
March 23, 2012 at 11:46 pm #752141
dyn99ParticipantDBP – nope, I did not. But I can’t say that I am willing to invest a ton of time in talking to one person to get their perspective.
I would be interested in reading the perspective here though. Are you aware of a list of demands, locally, in particular?
Unfortunately, as you can see from these forums, one person doesn’t necessarily represent the group with any level of accuracy.
I would guess that Kootch, JV and probably share 80% of our votes in common. But our reasons why and our perspectives on issues are very different.
That’s why I’d love to get the demands and/or key points out there for discussion. A group usually flushes out points of view more effectively that a conversation I could have with one individual.
March 24, 2012 at 1:32 am #752142
DBPMemberYes, you make good points, dyn.
In my opinion, the fact that the Occupy movement doesn’t have a more coherent “program” is a real vulnerability, and one that leaves them wide open to these kinds of scattershot attacks we’ve seen here, to wit: they just wanna bitch about the system; they don’t have any constructive ideas for improvement, etc.
I have pointed this out to various friends in the movement, and they typically respond with something like: “We don’t want to get weighed down with organizational baggage. We want maximum participation and maximum democracy.”
You’ve heard of the cult of the leader?
Well, Occupy is like the cult of the leaderless.
Nevertheless, they have managed to hang together around a loose program of anti-corporatism. I don’t think I’m misrepresenting the movement as a whole if I put forward the following short list of “demands”:
¶ Raise taxes on the 1%
¶ End corporate influence over elections
¶ Create green jobs
¶ Fund social services and education
¶ Make polluters pay for clean-up
¶ End war
Not all the radical when you think about it. Not even that far left of the official Democratic Party platform.
What’s radical is the way Occupy presents their grievances, right out in the public square.
March 24, 2012 at 2:07 am #752143
dyn99ParticipantHey DBP,
I have a few questions – let’s start with “raise taxes on the 1%”:
-First – how do you define the 1%? If you use wages as the metric, it’s about $340k/year. If you use total income, it’s closer to $1.6m per year. I seem to read different figures every time I read about the 1%. Where do you draw the line on who needs to pay more in taxes?
-Second, what is the purpose of raising these taxes (I assume you’re referring to Federal income tax)? Is it going to pay for deficit reduction? If so, and you use the proposed Buffet rule as the metric, it only closes about 5%-10% of the deficit problem, depending on whose number you believe. I think you’ll agree that we can’t just spend the increased taxes, otherwise we risk dampening future economic growth.
Third, just in order to break even with our current spending levels nationally, we’d probably have to raise taxes on about the top 30% of incomes significantly (like marginal rate increases of 8-10%+), or on everybody at least a little, most likely by ending deductions and loopholes.
Lastly, if you did raise taxes to pay for something, what are the spending priorities that you’d like to see paid for? Healthcare? Jobs? Environmental clean-up?
These are all things that Occupy needs to define in order for its message to be heard by the people that run the country. And that’s only on one item on your list. More questions to come later…
March 24, 2012 at 2:28 am #752144
JoBParticipantJV
“Even if they aren’t throwing anything, they are quietly saying, “those S.O.B.’s get what they deserve” as the other Occupier franchises are spilling feces in a Chase Bank lobby. “
Do you assume this because that is what you would say if the cause was one you supported and you were there?
I ask.. because i happen to know many of the “little old ladies” who are local occupy members..
and i can’t imagine a single one of them saying anything like that.
but i can imagine you saying something like this
“now this group has evolved into a group of criminals who don’t care about the damage they cause, the people they hurt, or the janitors who have to clean up after them.”
March 24, 2012 at 2:36 am #752145
JoBParticipantJV
let’s see…
you have asssumed that the local occupier would not only condone but appreciate the flinging of feces
you have called them a group of criminals
and now..
“I’m sure the local Occupy franchise is just swell. I’m sure the local members of the skin heads would claim that they are completely different from their national reputation too.”
didn’t your momma tell you that name calling isn’t nice?
March 24, 2012 at 2:37 am #752146
kootchmanMember.ya know dhg… Fox is actually doing a better job covering rising oil prices…they have been pretty candid about how few tools Obama has … and they have on multiple shows, with multiple commentators and guests put a heavy burden on the structure of oil futures… somethingI have seen on nary a liberal show except Charlie Rose… that’s not to say he gets off free… but the obvious one… instead of Obama and Biden bragging about how he got the Saudis to up production…. it would be better our trade balance was reduced by using domestic oil… eh? Funny, the liberals cry about imports for cars, textiles, etc… and then ignore the most obvious… our largest trade imbalance is in oil imports!!! We should be exporting oil to China …not Iran, not Venezuela, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia….
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