New Zimmerman bloody head picture. Thoughts?

[oddreality]

JV, in my heart of hearts I have NO IDEA what happened that night.I do not know if Zimmerman is guilty of anything malevolent or not. I’ve not heard/seen the evidence and since I am not a trial watcher ,hate those media circuses,I will probably not see most of it till the whole thing is over ~only what I will see here or on Facebook or the evening news.

I am ,however,glad that this is going to trial because I did not and do not believe you should be allowed to kill someone and just walk away without some sort of investigation and apparently there was little to none in this case. Just wrong. So if a trial is necessary now to sort it out because there was not enough of an investigation to begin with so be it.I hope justice prevails .No matter what justice turns out to be in this case.

I did not say Zimmerman DID self inflict his head wounds.I said it is possible..and it is.Anything is at this point.None of us knows much and none of us will until the trial.All of us are simply speculating.You are also ,JV. You do not know what happened either.I do wonder how there is no apparent evidence of a broken nose. When a nose is broken it shows up pretty quickly.Bruising,blood…The photos of him after the event do not show any broken nose evidence.

No matter what happens Mr.Zimmerman will not have a good life after all this.I feel for him if he is innocent of any wrong doing.Not so much if he is guilty of murder.

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[JanS]

actually, according to the ABC story, Kootch, the picture was taken just immediately after the shooting, by a “witness”, with an iPhone. The cops had not arrived yet. “Witness” has not been named yet. It will probably come out in trial if true. I would suggest you read the story before you make a comment as if it was fact.

and, JV..it’s one photo taken with an iPhone..it’s not a video, if I read correctly.

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[JanS]

Also, one of the things discussed today at the bond hearing is the fact that Mr. Zimmerman changed his story..TO THE AUTHORITIES three times. His “official” story changed 3 times. Now…I realize that he is innocent until proven guilty. But…this is a guy who was not totally honest from the get go. It sure doesn’t speak well for him.

We will have to see what unfolds in a trial. It should be interesting.

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[Smitty]

Full disclosure, here is my take.

1) Zimmerman spots Martin and thinks the worst.

2) Zimmerman follows him, calls 911 who tells him to stop following.

3) Zimmerman continues to follow, eventually returning to his car when Martin says to himself, enough is enough and…

4) Confronts Zimmerman. Why are you following me? Loses his cool and starts a fight.

The rest is history (sadly).

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[JanS]

Pure speculation, Smitty. You want to believe tht Mr. Zimmerman is totally innocent in this. He made mistakes. He should have just stayed in his car. Sadly, none of us will never know, since one of the two is dead. It didn’t have to end that way…it could have been avoided.I could just as easily say I think he simply did something that he shouldn’t have, Martin fought back to defend himself, and Zimmerman got too itchy a trigger finger, and someone got killed.

We have a trial by jury for a reason…and none of us should try him before the jury trial…we would want nothing less for ourselves.

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[Cait]

I have no idea what happened but I can tell you what would be weighing heavy on my mind if I were a juror. First of all – that his story has changed multiple times. Second – that he got out of his car. Third – that there’s no way to threaten someone’s life without a weapon when they are in a car and you are on the street. Fourth – that he was told to not pursue and he did it anyway. Fifth – I know without a shadow doubt that I would defend myself by any means necessary if I felt that I was being followed for no reason. That’s all I have to go on.

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[WorldCitizen]

Wow, lots of speculation and finger pointing here. Does anyone here have the facts of the story? Media reports are pretty poor resources to draw upon when formulating opinions about such a serious matter. Does anyone actually think the media has given a good and thorough accounting of what has happened?

Reminds me of the case of the lady who sued McDonald’s over spilling hot coffee on her lap in the drive thru. People had their minds made up because of media reports that it was a frivioulus law suit. Thats the story that sold papers and ad space. Turns out, people were grossly uninformed to the facts of the case. She won, and has since become the poster child for so-called friviolous cases. Well, the facts came out afterword and we now know she was wronged and the picture painted by the media WAS just to sell papers.

Who’s to say this case isn’t being sold to us for the same reason? Do you really know the facts? Do you trust the media?

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[JoB]

One fact of this story that you just can’t get around…

without the public outcry that was created by the media coverage

there would be no trial at all

what i find most bothersome is that some people argue that the media coverage is the bad thing here… not the blatant disregard for due process.

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[JoB]

JV

You may be using immature sniping to make a point…

but that’s not a tactic that works well here.

It’s far more likely to get you ignored than listened to.

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[JV]

I think my sniping makes my point just fine, thanks.

I think your uppity, holier-than-thou, clueless comments are more likely to get you laughed at than listened to!

But keep doing what works for you, I enjoy your wisdom!

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[redblack]

think my sniping makes my point just fine, thanks.

indeed it does: it tells me exactly who you are.

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[anonyme]

The more I study this ‘new’ photo, the more questions I have.

For one thing, this is not a lot of blood at all for a scalp injury. Pretty minor, really. A broken nose may bleed little, but facial swelling is severe and immediate.

If Zimmerman was on his back being beaten, why is the blood running toward his face? That would be anti-gravity. If his head was being bashed into the concrete, the blood on his head would not only be smeared, but there would be blood on the concrete.

It should be fairly simple to determine the position of Trayvon’s body when he was shot – unless his body was immediately turned over to make it look like he’d been on top during the struggle. Witnesses have stated that Zimmerman was on top of Trayvon’s body after the shot, pressing his face into the ground. Was this when the blood trickled forward?

Just too many things that don’t add up here. I’m really looking forward to hearing ALL of the evidence. It’s troubling that the pieces of evidence purporting support of Zimmerman’s case – don’t.

I also agree with Cait that Zimmerman’s appearances in court have made him appear twitchy, paranoid and unbalanced. Was he always like this, or is he just learning what it’s like to have a target on your back (or your hoodie)?

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[happywalker]

Wonder if any “official” photos were taken at the scene. Seems very basic police work to me. CSI anyone?

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[JoB]

JV..

sigh..

So you think i am uppity?

why.. because i called you out on the childishness of your post?

childishness you admit?

and you think i am clueless

are you unable to follow the clues?

I’m sorry.

i tried to do better at your request

and you ignored my efforts

you might think saying that is holier than thou

i think it’s nothing less than laziness on your part

you asked. i delivered. you ignored.

i don’t think i am better than you

i just think you aren’t doing your part

if you are reading me as holier than thou..

you either have a reading problem

or a comprehension problem

or both

and i don’t think i can do anything about either

but you are right about laughter

i am lucky enough to surround myself with laughter

I am fortunate that

even though i have been known to suffer from foot inserted into mouth moments

more often than not people laugh with me

not at me

and if you look carefully

you will see the evidence of that for yourself

if you care about people

they tend to care about you back

even when you don’t always see eye to eye

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[JV]

JoB, I don’t think ill of you, I promise.

I have never met you, and when I read your posts, I imagine you are my aunt. (Aunt Jan ironically!) She is as sweet as can be, a good natured, genuine person, but off the deep end left. Her compassion overtakes her logic some times…well most of the time…but she has a good heart.

Believe it or not, I attribute all of those characteristics to you as well. Good, sweet, genuine, all of that.

I do value your input, and even though we are 180 degrees apart on almost every topic, I enjoy reading your posts. (even though you are off the deep end left too!) ;)

Have a good weekend!

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[JoB]

JV

off the deep end left is a compliment…

not a psychiatric diagnosis.

i might like your Aunt Jan

god knows i have nieces and nephews and grandchildren who would say the same thing about me

misguided though they are :->

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[HMC Rich]

JV, JoB is a wonderful person. So is DBP, JanS, Celeste, MIWS and the others. I have met JoB a few times and the others only once. I won’t argue in person because I like the friendly side of chatting.

But I am starting a chapter of the ANTI 34th District Democrats Chapter. You, Kootch, and a few others are on the organization committee.

Our acronym is WMD’s. Dems dislike WMD’s.

We

Must

Dominate

Of course we must put up with their group that despises us

Crazy

Republicans

Are

Putrid.

It is a friendly rivalry.

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[JanS]

Thanks for the good words, Rich :)

CRAP, huh – lol…

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[JoB]

HMCRich..

thanks for the first laugh of the morning…

it was much appreciated.

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[waterworld]

Getting back to the discussion, which I’m just now catching up with, it does seem like there’s a lot of speculation going on, not only about the photo.

Kootchman said that the judge wasn’t impressed with the state’s case, as evidenced by the bond amount and that it wasn’t an all-cash bond. There’s no connection there, for two reasons. One is that Florida law prohibits all-cash bonds. It wouldn’t matter how strong the evidence was. Also, weight of the evidence against a defendant is just one many factors that go into the bail decision, usually one of the less-important factors.

Kootchman also says we will see the police reports in court, not in the newspapers. Assuming Kootch is referring to the trial, he’s wrong. We will not see the police reports in a trial, because they are inadmissible hearsay. It is possible the police reports will be discussed – during cross-examination of the officers, or maybe to refresh their memories – but even then, the reports would not be shown to the jury or admitted into evidence. If the police reports are made public, it will be because they are leaked to the media or released to the public after the case is closed.

Speaking of trial, and what we will or won’t see in a trial, remember that fewer than 10% of all criminal cases actually go to trial. The overwhelming majority of them are resolved in plea negotiation, and a very small number are thrown out before there’s a trial. So I would not assume that there’s going to be a jury trial at which all is revealed.

Even if there is a trial, all will not be revealed. The rules of evidence are complex, and both sides will be trying to make sure the evidence supporting their case gets in, while the evidence that undermines their case stays out. There could be issues about whether certain statements Trayvon allegedly made will be admitted, whether certain statements that Zimmerman allegedly made will be admitted, whether certain photographs are admitted, blah blah blah. The prior crimes committed by a defendant are usually excluded. And Zimmerman might decide not to testify. The jury may in fact not hear a lot of the things you have already read and heard.

Then there’s the speculation specifically about this photograph – whether it looks faked, whether it could have been photoshopped, whether the direction of the blood dribbles are consistent with Zimmerman’s story. Some of this strikes me as working backward: starting with a theory that Zimmerman is guilty (or a strong suspicion of it), and tending to credit evidence that supports that theory or suspicion while questioning evidence that does not.

If there is a trial, the jury will be instructed specifically not to think about the evidence that way. Nor will they be told to metaphorically put the evidence on either side of a balance and see where the weight of it points them toward conviction or away. It’s not like that at all. What the jury will be told is to evaluate the evidence beginning from the presumption that Zimmerman is innocent. With that presumption in mind, the jurors are to evaluate the evidence to see if the State has overcome the presumption of innocence.

Hand-in-hand with that, the jury will be instructed not to engage in theorizing about all the ways something could have happened or might have happened. They will be told to stick with what the evidence that’s been presented shows or doesn’t show. So if there is no evidence to support the idea that a photo was digitally manipulated, the jury’s instructions will tell them to assume it was not. The prosecutor would not be allowed to even suggest to the jury that an image had been altered if there was not at least some kind of evidence to support the claim.

We can suspect and speculate and imagine all we want out here in the real world. I certainly have my own suspicions about who is probably most responsible for Martin’s death. But to get a sense of how the jury might look at the evidence, try starting with the presumption that Zimmerman is innocent and placing the burden on the State of Florida to prove to you, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he is guilty. If you do that, where does this photo fit in?

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[JanS]

waterworld…thanks for that reasoned post….

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