Liquor Law Question

[Gina]

A mother and daughter are at a local grocery store. The daughter is a minor child. The mother lets the daughter swipe the debit card, but enters the PIN herself. The cashier says that he is not able to complete the order because of Washington State State Liquor laws. There is a six pack of beer in the cart along with other groceries. It is illegal for a minor to be involved with the payment of alcohol.

My question is for others that may work in retail.

Is this a correct interpertation of WA state law?

The mother had to cancel payment, and have the order rechecked through again.

The store manager said this was the correct thing to do.

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[Kimberley]

No rational person could think the child was buying booze for her/his own consumption. But the cost to the store (insane fines, loss of license to sell beer/wine) is much greater than the additional two minutes of checkout stand time, so can you really blame them?

Also, the Liquor Control Board has been known to set up stings on a regular basis, so again, better safe than sorry.

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[austin]

From my understanding it’s illegal for a minor to even be present during the transaction. When I was around ten I was with a family member who is thirteen years my senior who was buying a six pack of microbrew.. the overzealous grocery store clerk refused to sell us the beer on account of my being unable to produce identification proving that I was over 21, claiming state law forbade her from doing so.

Of course state law is completely open to misinterpretation by underinformed or simply confused grocery store workers. When I was 18 or 19, when pcc fremont was in its less fancy location, I was carded there for trying to buy a six pack of henry weinhard root beer, on two separate occasions by two different people.

To me the situation described originally sounds like the store is extremely touchy about nitpicky laws that aren’t based on common sense, maybe they recently got popped for selling booze to minors and management wants staff to stick hard to the letter of the law.

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[flowerpetal]

I agree. Beer and wine is big business for these stores and to lose a license, even for a few days would be really bad for business. Retailers are hyper-vigilant about this. Remember, we recently had the posts about the toddler with the empty beer bottle at Buddha Ruksa.

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[Andy]

austin – Don’t know exactly how the law is spelled out, but I called one of the State liquor stores here to make sure it was OK to bring my 2 year old in. The man said that was perfectly fine, but that if I came in with someone who looked borderline 21 and claimed he was my son, they would need to see ID from both of us. Of course, I’m only 35, so that would be a bit peculiar.

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[miws]

Another thing is that stores may occasionally set policy that is stricter than the actual law, just to play it safe.

Mike

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[HunterG]

Good lord…how silly.

BUT it is the law, maybe the cashier heard through the grapevine that the liquor board would be conducting stings in their area. Cashiers are in a tricky position at times in regards to alcohol sales because it’s their butt on the line. If they do sell to a minor in a sting, the store is fined and at some establishments they could lose their job which is valuable these days – I do agree, it is better safe than sorry (even though common sense should be part of a cashiers skill set). You never know who is watching.

I once cashiered at a store where a a coworker had the unlucky misfortune to sell to a minor twice in one year (both of them a sting operation) she was a nice lady, good morals, church goin’ type of lady… she was taken out of the store on the second offense in handcuffs and got like a $3,000 fine.

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[waterworld]

I don’t buy it. I checked RCW Title 66 and the WAC regulations in Chapter 314. Nothing in the statute or the regulations suggests that the person who swipes the card is the buyer.

I don’t think the question here is whether it’s okay for a child to buy liquor when she’s in the store with her mom. The question is who is the purchaser in this transaction? I take it that it’s not the child’s debit card; it’s the mother’s. I am assuming that the card is connected to the mother’s bank account, and that the mother is over 21 and has ID and the mother’s name is on both the ID and the debit card. If so, then it’s the mother who is “purchasing” the liquor. The child does not become the “purchaser” by swiping the mother’s card.

Let’s say I go to the store with my friend and she fills her cart with a bunch of things she wants to buy. We get to the check stand and she pulls our her card, hands to me to swipe (I love to swipe!), and then enters her PIN. Surely those aren’t my groceries at the end of this transaction.

Even if this were a sting, I don’t think the checker would be found in violation. It would be different if the kid was a teenager and pulled out her own debit card and handed it to her mother to complete the transaction. In that case the kid is the buyer. And certainly the store can set more restrictive conditions in an abundance of caution. But I don’t think there’s any violation when a young kid swipes her mom’s card for her.

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[KBear]

I think the real issue here is NOT whether there was a violation (almost everyone seems to agree that there wasn’t), but whether what the cashier did was reasonable. Since the cashier has to worry not only about the letter of the law, but also whether the police, LCB, or store manager might be watching, it seems perfectly reasonable that they err on the cautious side. I’d say the safety of cashier’s job is more important than the slight inconvenience of re-doing the transaction. Why is this such a big deal, anyway?

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[Gina]

The big deal is that I was the next person in line during a time that the store was very busy, because a neighboring supermarket had recently closed for construction. I was having a hard time seeing what on earth the logic of it all was while waiting for the rescanning. What next, would children/minors be banned from the soda pop and chips and cheese sold in the same aisle as the beer?

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[Proudparent]

Honestly I think this is the most idiotic thing I ‘ve heard. Clearly the minor was not purchasing the alcohol since the parent was present. If we are trying to get infront of illegal minor consumption of alcohol. who is to say that the adult was indeed the parent? Who is to say that the parent wouldn’t let a teen consume the alcohol once it is at home. I’m so sick of the govenrment telling us how to raise our children. Minors will get their alcohol one way or another if they are clever enough. As parents we need to have the serious discussion about consequences with them. the store manager is an idiot also.

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[miws]

But Proudparent, remember, the store manager may have been following a law, or at least not wanting to take a risk of being busted on a technicality, if the law is vague.

Also, as has been mentioned, stores’ corporate owners may set policies stricter than the local laws, to cover their own tails. Especially national, or multi-national corps, that would have to spend a lot of time and money having their legal staff research, (and stay up to date on) those laws in each jurisdiction, and then formulate differing policies, in various jurisdictions.

It’s simply much easier, and safer for them legally, for them to have stricter policies company wide.

Mike

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[Jiggers]

I saw not too long ago that in Indonesia a 4 year old smokes 2 packs of cigs a day so, anything can happen..

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[JustSarah]

C’mon, hasn’t anyone seen “Clerks”?

;-)

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[Garden_nymph]

No more shopping at the inconvenience store for you…

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