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September 8, 2009 at 5:15 pm #592234
beachdrivegirlParticipantI know this is not West Seattle based but I am curious as to what other West Seattlites are feeling about this strike. IMO, the teachers that have chosen to continue to strike should be fired. Imagine the money the district would save with a whole new batch of teachers.
September 8, 2009 at 6:24 pm #676595
bfranklin4206Memberhonestly all teacher are way underpaid we can pay a baseball player a million dollars a game but not support the basic needs of a teacher that should only be teaching no more then 20 students instead of 30+ so its the whole system
September 8, 2009 at 8:31 pm #676596
FullTiltParticipantThis strike is about class size. The money the teachers are losing in the strike is never going to be made up.
September 8, 2009 at 8:34 pm #676597
sunshineParticipantThe district might save money by hiring all new teachers, but they’d also be losing 80% of the district’s experience and any continuity of education for the students. I’m glad you don’t run a school district.
September 8, 2009 at 8:42 pm #676598
KBearParticipantThe decision to go on strike, especially in violation of a court order, isn’t made lightly. The teachers deserve more respect.
September 8, 2009 at 8:55 pm #676599
gunnerddogMemberClarification:
No baseball player makes $1M per game.
My understanding is that the teachers are not going to lose any money as they are paid by the school day and since the strike is pushing school back, they are simply pushing back their work to a later start date. Is this correct?
Thirdly, I agree with BDG in that they should be fired. Certain public employees should not be allowed to strike. These include Firefighters, Medics, Police, and Teachers. It is called out in their contracts that they are not allowed to stop work.
Lastly, I agree with bfranklin in that they are underpaid, but this strike has lessened their level of respectability in my eyes.
September 8, 2009 at 8:55 pm #676600
TraciMemberI went to school in Kent, guest taught there during school, and am a regular substitute teacher there now. This has been a really tough couple weeks for both sides and has been a *first* for the district… Every time I read someone comment in response to some article and say “fire them! They are greedy!” really must not be aware of the negotiation timeline or that both sides (KSD and KEA) are in a difficult position.
September 8, 2009 at 9:04 pm #676601
gunnerddogMemberI don’t believe they are greedy. However, they broke their contract by striking and are disobeying a court order by refusing to return to work. We have courts for many reasons. One of which is to enforce contracts. I am not disagreeing with those who say they have legitimate concerns. The state does not sufficiently fund education, and the teachers are one of many who pay the price for that shortfall. However, they are in breach of their contract and a court order.
I don’t really think they are lawbreakers who need to be locked up, and don’t believe they will be. I’m curious as to what others think the school should do, if not terminate employement, with teachers who have violated their contracts?
September 8, 2009 at 9:10 pm #676602
beachdrivegirlParticipantI agree teachers should be paid more and have smaller class sizes.
However, if *we* the public do not vote for an increase in property taxes etc then schools will not have the funds available to pay teachers and keep class sizes small.
I do not agree that teachers salaries should be compared to a baseball players salary. Two completely different things. Our taxes don’t pay for baseball players salaries so they are completely irrelevant. I think all of our government employees are taking pay cuts and making sacrifices. What makes a teacher different?
But my stance is similar to Gunner dogs, teachers, firemen, policemen etc should not be allowed to strike. In the long run they are hurting these children’s educations more than the large class size would have, they are also hurting these children’s family finances b/c parents are either a) having to take work off or b) having to find and pay for childcare which would be an unexpected expense that some families cannot afford to have right now.
Gunnerdog, imo, they should not be arrested but all of their contracts should be terminated.
September 8, 2009 at 9:39 pm #676603
flowerpetalMemberIn a 365 day window (one year)kids are going to be in school for a predetermined number of days. You are correct that some parents are having to pay for child care that they did not plan on. But when the children do go back to school they will still attend for the predetermined number of days. Come next June families will realize a savings for days they won’t have to pay for child care because their little ones are still in school. My grandmother used to say “It all comes out in the wash.”
It is true that public employees are not supposed to strike. Teachers on strike do not pose the same public safety problem that police and firefighters on strike would. Even the judge understood that the teachers might (as is typical) defy the court order to return to work. Some would say that the judge gave a nod to the teachers to defy the order. I’m not sure about that.
This is a strike about appropriate care for children and best practice in education. Some class sizes include more than 45 children in a class.
Today is day three in the strike.
September 8, 2009 at 9:46 pm #676604
beachdrivegirlParticipantFlowerpetal, where are you getting your figures? Per the Kent School District website in 2008 the largest class size was 29 in grades 5-6.
http://www.kent.k12.wa.us/KSD/CR/KSD_facts.html
When I was growing up I remember having a few classes with more than 30 in them. Doesn’t really seem like much has changed?
And yes it is only day of three of the strike but they are defying a judge’s order. what type of example is that for kids?
September 8, 2009 at 10:05 pm #676605
WSMomParticipantMy friend, who is a teacher in Kent, says the district website classroom size figures are not completely correct, that there were many classrooms with over 30 students. She knows of parents who have called the district to inquire why their child’s class is listed as having 27 kids when in fact the class had 33 students last year.
September 8, 2009 at 10:09 pm #676606
flowerpetalMemberIt is in the talking points between the Kent Edcuation Association and the Kent School District. I got the number directly from the Washington Education Association. Neither the KEA nor the KSD are denying the class size of 45. This number was also quoted last week in the Seattle Times. That’s four sources.
Some would say it is a good example for children. When Rosa Parks sat in an available seat on public transportation it was in defiance of the law. Today Rosa’s picture graces many text books. Some times people have to stand in defiance of the law. If women and men hadn’t stood in protest of women’s suffrage (sometimes protesting outside the law) women would not have been granted the right to vote when they did.
September 8, 2009 at 10:33 pm #676607
beachdrivegirlParticipantI guess we must be reading different articles. The only Seattle Times article I read mentioned a teacher (Hsu) saying their class size was between 30 & 32. So I aplogize. My question to you though is where the he** do you want teh school district to make up the $11.2 million that the teachers are asking for in salary increases & smaller class sizes. We are in a great recesssion right now and we all have to learn to compromise.
September 8, 2009 at 10:46 pm #676608
FullTiltParticipantYour taxes do pay baseball players salaries. When you taxes are used to build a stadium, and support a stadium, you are paying for those players.
Police and fireman are not allowed to strike because public safety is at risk. When garbage collectors, truck drivers, carpenters, longshoremen, and teachers go on strike it is an inconvenience for all involved. It is their only bargaining power though. Taking that away from any workforce removes the power to the owners side of the board. This was done to many industries by Reagan in the 80’s.
September 8, 2009 at 10:48 pm #676609
KellyParticipantIn my opinion, the Kent teachers ARE setting a good example for their students. You stand up for what you believe in, even if it is difficult and uncomfortable. These teachers do not want to be in this predicament. Striking is not enjoyable. They will still be working the same number of days as they would have been working pre-strike. This is not a paid vacation for them. As for this not being the best time economically for a strike, I will say that most teacher contracts are not negotiated annually. These are multi-year deals. And if the choice is between going on strike and having outrageous class sizes for 3 or more years, I can completely understand the very difficult decision that these teachers made.
As a National Board Certified teacher of 8+ years (none in the Kent district) and as a teacher who once had 36 children in my class, I will attest that it is nearly impossible to do even a passable job teaching in that environment. One of the numerous challenges of having this many students in a classroom is that they are not at the same level of ability and they do not have the same level of support at home. Even the best-trained teacher cannot support all students in the sea of bodies that is 36 students, especially when they range from severely developmentally disabled to highly gifted to English Language Learner.
My last point is in regards to the idea of firing all 1800+ teachers in this district. Seriously? Does anyone really think this should happen? And exactly how would one go about filling those positions should those teachers be fired? I have some facetious suggestions but I’ll just keep them to myself.
September 8, 2009 at 11:11 pm #676610
flowerpetalMemberBDG, here’s the article that I read:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009776655_noschool31m.html
I would be happy to read the article from the Times that you read if you would be so kind as to send the link. Perhaps that teacher (Hsu) does have 30-32, but others have numbers as high as 45.
September 8, 2009 at 11:13 pm #676611
flowerpetalMemberNice points you make, Kelly. Maybe they wouldn’t have to replace all 1800 teachers, and instead would only replace the 75% who voted to continue the strike. ;~)
September 8, 2009 at 11:25 pm #676612
beachdrivegirlParticipantHere is the link to the article I referenced:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009822384_kent08m.html
Maybe if class size truely is the bigger issue Kent teachers should forgo asking for their rasies which will cost the district an estimated $8.5 million and use that money instead for more teachers. Just a thought.
September 8, 2009 at 11:29 pm #676613
jamminjMember“We are in a great recesssion right now and we all have to learn to compromise. “
so why is it the teachers and especially the children who are told to compromise? How about administrators cut their salaries – and use, from what I understand, a substantial reserve available to the district?
Amazing how little we think of the education of our future.
September 8, 2009 at 11:45 pm #676614
flowerpetalMemberThanks BDG. The quote from Hsu is a parent not a teacher. I misspoke if I seemed to frame this as a one issue strike. Class size is only one issue, as you well know from reading the article.
Succinct statements jamminj!
September 9, 2009 at 12:07 am #676615
KellyParticipantI found this interesting. It is information from the Kent Education Association website.
http://www.kentschools.org/index.php/priorities-administrators-or-teachers.html
Basically, Kent ranks #7 for money spent on teaching and support (when compared to 6 other similar districts), but #1 on building and central administration. Wow.
In addition, the website reports, “Kent ranks at the absolute bottom for pay in the Puget Sound metro area, and 80th statewide for new teachers. But look at salaries for Kent’s administrators and the trend is just the opposite.” (see website for specific numbers)
September 9, 2009 at 12:26 am #676616
CaitParticipantWhat good does it do to have a union if you have no means of fighting for your rights? You have a problem with it? Do more between contracts to make sure that the people you entrust with your children and their futures are making a fair wage. Neglect this issue all year long and this is what happens.
September 9, 2009 at 2:14 am #676617
rockhillsMemberInteresting, Kelly,
You found some support for one of my pet (and heretofore unsubstantiated) theories about the problems Kent seems to have in attracting and keeping good staff. Of the South King school district offices I have visited or worked through, Kent’s is the shiniest and newest–and staff are fleeing them in droves. Other districts, (Federal Way, Highline, and Auburn are the only ones I can speak to) have ugly offices–old, brown and orange, water-stained, and a little smelly. I can’t say it makes for a great work environment, but at least there has been a general consensus that those districts’ fiscal priorities are on the students rather than the administrators.
September 9, 2009 at 4:54 am #676618
melissaParticipantI’ve read and listened to quite a few debates about the Kent teachers’ strike over the last few days. Until this one, I found those discussions saddening and dispiriting. This one, however, made me a little teary because of the warmth, sympathy and understanding I saw in it. Thank you to Flowerpetal, Cait, FullTilt, Rockhills, Kelly, and Jamminj.
While I don’t teach in Kent, I do teach. I pour my heart and soul into the kids I teach. I’m making the barest bit more than I did last year, but I also know that I’m fortunate to have a job. I also have reasonable class sizes and few of meetings. I have enough time to meet with students individually. And I have a union that bargained hard so that my job is sane.
I support the Kent teachers in their strike and so deeply appreciate folks who understand the reasons for it and do the same — with respect and without rancor.
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