Home › Forums › Open Discussion › Kent School District Strike
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September 9, 2009 at 5:30 am #676619
KellyParticipantI wholeheartedly agree, Melissa. I appreciate that this discussion has been respectful and civil.
It sounds like if Kent teachers don’t hold their ground on this issue, they could be looking at class sizes of 35-50 children in their classes (since the district will not agree to any hard-and-fast caps on class size). Is that what is best for teachers OR kids?
Here is another excerpt from the KEA website (http://www.kentschools.org/index.php/the-district-budget.html) regarding concessions that teachers have already made in efforts to settle on a contract:
Kent educators have already made significant compromises at the bargaining table to reflect the current economic times. Teachers have:
* * Withdrawn our proposal that the district pay a 4.3 percent COLA approved by taxpayers under Initiative 732.
* * Reduced $4 million from our initial proposal for supplemental pay to offset teachers’ responsibilities that extend beyond the students’ school day.
* * Reduced our request for smaller class sizes; instead we are essentially asking the district to commit to ensuring overcrowded classes don’t grow even larger. The district has refused.
* * Withdrawn proposals for various compensation increases when reassigned, transferred and engaged in quality-improvement programs such as National Board certification.
September 9, 2009 at 5:51 am #676620
anatidaephobiaParticipantThe teachers are almost morally obligated to strike if they have 45 kids assigned to one classroom. Also, the ratio probably violates the “contract”, thereby freeing the teachers to strike. Parents should also raise their voices and support these teachers, for the good of the children. The kids can’t advocate for themselves.
September 9, 2009 at 4:22 pm #676621
flowerpetalMemberForty Five kids in a classroom certainly defies the legislation; so following BDG’s (whom we haven’t heard from for 16 hours) #1 post, perhaps the administrators and school board should be fired.
September 9, 2009 at 5:49 pm #676622
beachdrivegirlParticipantRosa Parks is your comparison? Really? This situation compares to that injustice? OK, lets follow your logic of extremes. Those who kill abortion doctors feel very strongly that they are doing something for the greater good of society. One murder spares the murder of thousands of others. Lets all rally our support behind that noble deed.
If class size breaks their contract, then they had a right to their original strike and dispute. However, to defy a court order sets the precedent that when “we” feel strongly that something we believe in is right, it’s ok in those circumstances to break the law.
When does that thinking cross the line? Only when another set of “we” disagree with the cause? This is a terrible example to set for children. It’s the time now to employ different negotiating techniques that do not involve breaking the law, merely because “we” have justified it.
September 9, 2009 at 6:05 pm #676623
beachdrivegirlParticipantHere are some of the *facts* from the Kent School District web page to address some *concerns* I am hearing some of you state.
1) Per the Kent School District website all class numbers have been restored to 2008-2009 levels.
2) Kelly, you are correct, that the current average teachers compensation is below the average. However, the current KSD proposal (which isn’t good enough for teachers) is moving the average toward the middle. This is despite the fact that they have less funding than the top three schools (Tacoma, Bellevue, and Lake Washington).
3) The community was involved in designing this year’s budget. So if these teachers and parents supporting these teachers were concerned with class sizes and salaries it should have been discussed at that time. Not when school was supposed to be starting. Not after a judge has ruled their strike illegal.
4) Administration costs. KSD recognized that they needed to make cuts in this area. Some of the things they have done include cutting 4 assistant principal positions as well as other central administration and school leadership mandatory reductions. Lets also note that KSD is below average for both state & large school district administration.
5) Lastly, long term financial stability is critical for a long term successful school district. Kind of similar to family financial or business financial stability. Therefore this fund balance (savings account) cannot be used for the spending on teachers’ salaries b/c in the long term it risks the districts’ financial stability.
September 9, 2009 at 6:48 pm #676624
flowerpetalMemberThanks for your response BDG. We are obviously on “different pages” on this topic.
In your original post you said you were curious what other West Seattleites are feeling about this strike. I trust you got some answers.
September 9, 2009 at 6:56 pm #676625
beachdrivegirlParticipantI did get my answers. and it made me do a little research myself-which i appreciated.
September 9, 2009 at 7:18 pm #676626
JoBParticipantI got some answers too…
and from a position of having no opinion on this matter…
i am now in full support of the Kent teacher’s strike.
BDG quoted the Kent School District website…
“Per the Kent School District website all class numbers have been restored to 2008-2009 levels”
Part of the complaint was that the numbers on the school district website did not match the reality of classroom size in 2008-2009.
What we didn’t hear from the district was that they were even committed to classrooms with less than 30 children.
It’s easy enough to frame this as a greedy or self serving teachers issue… to make this all about dollars…
but when teachers aren’t paid a living wage they stop teaching and when they have too many children in their classrooms… the kid’s suffer.
Someone has to stand up for the kids… and most of the time it’s left to their teachers to do so.
September 9, 2009 at 7:32 pm #676627
bluebirdMemberWho is framing it as greed? They are defying a court order.
September 9, 2009 at 7:37 pm #676628
beachdrivegirlParticipantJoB, I am so happy to hear that you were able to form an opinion on a matter by taking a look at the facts. I am curious though as to where you find your facts about the cost of living etc. according to this site, http://www.city-data.com/city/Kent-Washington.html, the median household income in Kent in 2007 was $51,855. According the KSD site, the average teachers salary will be raised to $57,646. How is this below the cost of living???
September 9, 2009 at 8:21 pm #676629
JoBParticipantbeachdrivegirl…
A living wage is one at which an individual can pay for housing, food, medical care, transportation, insurance, education, etc… for all members of the household that wage supports.
You might ask yourself just how far that average salary of $57,646 would go if you were supporting your lifestyle? That’s about $3500 +/- a month in take home. What if you were also supporting children on that wage? Would you consider it a living wage? When you start adding up expenses, you really do wonder how some people make ends meet.. even at the median income.
btw.. did you realize that you compared the projected average salary for 2009-2010 to the median income in 2007?
what was the average teacher’s salary for 2007 … the year that actually competed with those median wages?
And does the same website give you the information for the median wage for college graduates in the county?
If we value our teachers in terms of dollars, what does it say that the average wage for our teachers barely keeps track with the median wage for all workers in the county?
We require our teachers to pursue degrees in higher education… and to continue their education during their career… so why aren’t our teachers paid the median wage for professionals with comparable credentials?
and that doesn’t even approach the question of comparing the average teacher’s wage with the average administrator’s wage.
Why isn’t the education of our children important enough to pay professional teachers a professional wage? Why would they have to strike to ensure class sizes small enough to effectively educate the children in them?
Isn’t that what we employ them for…. to educate our children?
If that is true, it’s high time we stopped paying lip service to the concept of public education and blaming teachers for our own failure to provide them with the tools to get the job done.
September 9, 2009 at 8:40 pm #676630
beachdrivegirlParticipantJoB you missed the point of the topic once again. If you want to discuss teacher wages etc rather than high jack this post please start a new forum topic. I think most if not all of us posting here have agreed that teachers should be paid more. Heck, I said this early on in post nine. And don’t be silly I am intelligent enough to know what a living wage is. ( I have wikipedia, too.) and please refrain from making public assumptions and comments about me – that is uncalled for and on the verge of name calling which is against the rules.
September 9, 2009 at 8:41 pm #676631
bluebirdMemberPlease JoB, you’re getting all apple-orangie here. You can come up with all kinds of scenarios where any and every job isn’t enough. Why not say a two teacher household with zero kids make over a hundred grand. Not a bad living and comparable to most other jobs held with a degree.
And there is a union that negotiates these things. You’re choosing not to address what is a known. These teachers are defying a court order supposedly for the sake of the children while the children are actually out picketing and protesting their teachers. They want to be in school. Period.
September 9, 2009 at 9:13 pm #676632
jamminjMemberI still find it amazing that we are arguing about paying teachers a living wage, or a little above it.
I have always felt that most of us felt that school was nothing more than a glorified day care. And I think some of the sentiment here shows that.
Teachers shouldn’t be paid at JUST a living wage, their responsibility goes beyond ‘average’.
Our family went to a Mariners game recently, cost us a pretty penny, as well as seeing all the families there on kids day who also shelled out some serious dough. Seems as if we have no problem spending some $$$$ for entertainment, but when it comes to raising our taxes when it comes to teachers, we seem to have a problem and feel the need to tell them to keep there place.
As far as the court order, I don’t know if its the best example for the children, but what other tool do the teachers have who have legitimate claims??
September 9, 2009 at 9:16 pm #676633
jamminjMember“These teachers are defying a court order supposedly for the sake of the children”
so is there a claim that reducing class size is false by the teachers and union??? That reducing class size is not a benefit for the children, but for the teachers?
September 9, 2009 at 9:52 pm #676634
KellyParticipantI will reiterate that the teachers also want to be in school right now. A strike is a last resort. The union and the district have most likely been bargaining all summer since the end of the previous school year. The teachers are left with few options at this point since they do not have a fair contract.
To those who believe that these teachers should not strike, what would you have these teachers do?
As a parent, I would never want my child in a class of 35 students, let alone 40 or more. I personally don’t believe that it is safe to have that many students in one class. As a teacher, I would absolutely be hindered from doing even a passable job under these conditions.
What would you have these teachers do?
September 9, 2009 at 10:40 pm #676635
JoBParticipantbeachdrivegirl..
I didn’t make any assumptions about you or verge on calling you names..
tho i did point out the weaknesses in the stats you provided to try to rebut my comment.
If you think that is personal, that is your problem.
If i ever do call you names i promise to promptly report myself.
September 9, 2009 at 10:44 pm #676636
JoBParticipantbluebird,
Yes, there is a union and the teachers are exercising their right to strike.
they have as much right to ignore the court order ordering them back to work as you or I..
and as much risk of the consequences.
as for their contract.. how can they have a valid contract if… as someone else pointed out… the school district already broke it by exceeding class sizes?
And those kids on the picket-lines.. i suspect their parents have something to do with that, don’t you?
September 9, 2009 at 10:56 pm #676637
anatidaephobiaParticipantThis isn’t about the teachers, it’s about the students. The teachers obviously are fighting for the kids.
The ratios put out by the district are erroneous b/c they include personnel other than teachers in their calculations for the teacher:student ratio (ex. counseling staff, nurses, library staff, etc…). Since more non-personnel staff has been hired this year, returning the ratios to the 2008-2009 level does not equal the same amount of students in each classroom this year when compared to the prior year. In other words, there are more students sitting in each classroom than reported in the ratio.
Also, the teachers argue that they are required to attend too many meetings, taking them away from time with the students. Anyone who knows a teacher is aware that this job is from morning until night at least 5 days a week, with much of it done at home AFTER school lets out. They plan lessons and grade papers/tests on their own time. If you break down their salaries by the hour, their pay is close to minimum wage + overtime.
The KIDS are shortchanged by the district’s imposition of unfair ratios. The teachers are on strike b/c they understand what is happening, and are in the best position to advocate for kids & bring awareness to the parents.
The district’s position will lead to teacher burn-out, neglected kids, decreased learning, and eventually many teachers leaving the field. Supporting our teachers only benefits the kids.
September 9, 2009 at 10:57 pm #676638
JoBParticipantjamminj…
i suspect if we asked any of those who think the teachers make enough..
*to live on the wages we pay them or to marry so that they are a two income family
*to work the overtime every teacher i know works
*to pay for school supplies not provided by the district out of their salaries
*to volunteer for after school activities
*to keep going back to school to get continuing education credits to keep their jobs..
*to deal with undisciplined children
*to take the abuse parents heap on them when their child isn’t doing well
and … to be considered little more than a babysitter to America’s kids…
they would say no.
Maybe that’s why they don’t have much respect or admiration for people who make those kinds of sacrifices to teach in our schools…
And maybe that lack of respect is what has caused our educational scores to slip steadily towards the bottom of the pack.
If we want a larger number of dedicated teachers we need to pay them for their commitment and give them the tools they need to do the job…
September 9, 2009 at 11:23 pm #676639
beachdrivegirlParticipantJoB- you made personal assumptions about me which i said imo were on the verge name of name calling. please read my posts more thoroughly.
September 9, 2009 at 11:29 pm #676640
KellyParticipantbeachdrivegirl,
I am not seeing what you are seeing in regards to JoB’s comments. I think that JoB’s comments were quite straightforward and I do not see the “personal assumptions” to which you refer. I definitely don’t see anything that could be construed as “name calling.”
Perhaps we could just stick to the topic.
September 9, 2009 at 11:36 pm #676641
JoBParticipantpost dited by poster….
beachdrivegirl…
I am sorry you don’t understand the difference between a personal attack and refuting a point in an argument.
September 9, 2009 at 11:41 pm #676642
JoBParticipanti have dutifully edited my own post.
September 10, 2009 at 12:12 am #676643
beachdrivegirlParticipantI have stuck to the topic at hand. I am sorry I have know idea waht you are rambling about in half of your post??? where are you getting these ideas?
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