Electrical work — What is a fair price for this:

[undrgrndmwn]

So, I’m starting a renovation project in my house. I demolished my office down to the studs and have a semi-open basement.

Two electricians from a well-respected local electrician’s just left my house. I got the recommendation from this blog.

The quoted price to run two circuits, install 6 outlets, and a couple of ceiling boxes?

A WHOPPING $3,783.22!

Now, I’m no electrician, but I did at one point pull telephone and cat-5 cable for a living. I know that this price is total and complete BS. The cable runs would be fairly simple, since the destination room and ceiling are open to the studs.

So, what is a fair price for this much work? Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,

Christy

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[MargL]

Last year I got some quotes from local electricians they were estimating about $70 to $90 per outlet and I think $120 per circuit. My notes are kinda scrawly but $3700+ does seem a little high for the work you listed.

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[clark5080]

How hard is it to get to the main box and is there room in the box for the extra circuits?

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[lazybeard]

Clark5080 hit on a good question.

How far of a run is it from the main box?

How many amps are you running, 15, 20, 30?

Is the quote including materials? (You could supply the romex, sockets & switches)

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[Ken]

What does the estimate say?

No one should give you just a number scrawled on a post-it.

Usually the issue is that a contractor has to do all work to current code, and often do the paperwork and get permits.

The homeowner can sometimes have the permitting, major pulls and circuit upgrades done by an electrician and by doing the individual box wiring themselves. It should be much cheaper. An electrician should be able to inspect your wiring (and the city inspector too if the local permit process requires it) since you say you have open walls.

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[clark5080]

Are we sure this doesn’t include upgrading the main panel to allow for the new circuits? If it is just for the the few outlets and two circuits I would say it does in fact seem very high especially in this economy when there is very little construction or remodeling happening. i would certainly get at least a couple of other bids

Jim

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[undrgrndmwn]

“How hard is it to get to the main box and is there room in the box for the extra circuits?”

The box is quite easy to get to. It’s in a basement room with enough height for all but the tallest guys to stand in. There are several open spots on the panel. The panel was upgraded a few years ago. One of the things that last homeowners did right was get the panel replaced with extra space available for the rewire job they surely knew was inevitable.

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[undrgrndmwn]

“How far of a run is it from the main box?

How many amps are you running, 15, 20, 30?

Is the quote including materials? (You could supply the romex, sockets & switches)”

* around > 40 ft and 50> from the main box (2 circuits)

* 15 or 20 amps — no huge power hogs in the room other than a PC. There is ample room on the panel to add this and still have room left over

* Yes, materials were included in the price

In the itemized quotes, they tried to charge me just under $200 per receptacle/outlet and $250 per recessed lighting can. If that’s what it costs, that’s what it costs, but I can’t help but call this like I see it: BS! :)

I will definitely be getting more quotes.

Also, they offered to bypass the permit process for this job. I wonder how common that is for Washington?

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[PDieter]

if you are interested in learning to do the work yourself send me an email.

http://web.me.com/riverwader/blog/Home_Craft.html

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[hammerhead]

My dad does this electrical stuff he is a general contractor. Give him a call Jerry 579-5084. He did alot of this stuff in my house. Good luck.

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[LisaM]

When I needed my hot tub electrical installed last year, I got 3 quotes that were all pretty dramatically different and I was shocked!

I ended up using an independent guy who was referred to me and ended up paying him $300 less than the lowest offer from a company! I recommend that avenue…

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[Diana]

I would certainly get several bids. If someone offers to “bypass a permit” when a permit is required I would not hire them. I have done several extensive remodels and have used C&R Electric and Bowie Electric and have been pleased with their services and pricing. If you hire a single operator you should check out their license with the Department of Labor & Industries to be sure they are in good standing.If something goes wrong down the line and you get jolted your homeowners insurance may not cover you.

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[alki_2008]

Definitely require a permit. I had checked out some electrical re-wiring for my place about a year ago, and the two options seemed to be either a per-project bid or an hourly rate. With easy access that you have, then you might have some luck with the hourly rate option (~$40/hr is good). The price you were quoted sounds fishy to me, as my own project was more extensive and bids were much less.

Good luck!

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[lazybeard]

Egads! I just looked up my costs for when I did my three recessed lights two months ago and the total material costs was $266 (3 $30 dimmers too).

I’d bring in another party or two for some more quotes and inquire about you bringing in your own recessed lighting. Unless you have a ceiling made of stone, I can’t imagine it being time consuming to draw a circle and cut the ceiling.

Sorry if this sounds a little rambly, my bed time is here.

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[Kevin]

I would HIGHLY recommend C&R Electric. I have used them on several times for both consultations, and completing work that I have started but do not feel comfortable completing on my own.

You can save a LOT of money by doing the grunt work yourself. Running a few simple extensions is not a big deal. Most electrical work like this is fairly straight forward. There are plenty of books out there if you need a little help.

In the past I have used C&R to consult with me on the best plan to do the work I want. $150 or so for an hour consultation is pretty reasonable.

In another case, I did all the grunt work and then had them inspect my work and do the final connection in the circuit breaker box because I was a “fraidy cat” working in the box. Again, I did all the basic work and they did the hookup and it ran around $150 or so for an hour of their time.

What you are proposing should cost $500 or 600 dollars, or less (C&R consultations and materials)

McClendons is another good source of help. They have licensed electricians who will advise you of the best materials and code compliant practices.

FYI – C & R Electric Inc

4200 SW Admiral Way

Seattle 98116

206-937-3654

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[undrgrndmwn]

You guys, thanks so much for all the help and input! This blog really is an invaluable resource!

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[homedk]

Here are a couple of additional thoughts on this that you may find helpful when getting further bids. We had a big electrical project done last year by a local WS electrical contractor.

We arranged to have the job done based on the cost of materials and the actual number of hours that it would take to do the work multiplied by the number of electricians they put on our job. Their hourly rate ($80/hour) seemed reasonable at the time because we were told that their electricians were experienced Journeymen and fully licensed. In actuality they put one good Journeyman electrician on our project & the rest of their electricians were obviously very new at their jobs; some may not have even been licensed as they seemed to be “in training”. The company billed us at full hourly rate regardless of the quality of the electrician…& they seemed to round the number of hours up to include all the training that seemed to be going on between the younger & the experienced electricians.

With regard to the cost of materials, we ended up being charged for an astronomical amount of materials, mostly wiring. The final cost was surprising to us because we had been in good communication with the lead electrician & inquiring periodically about what the material costs were. In hindsight, we should have done a better job of tracking the materials ourselves. At the end of the job when we got the bill, it was hard to pinpoint how many materials were actually needed & used for our job. The electricians were either extremely wasteful or something else was going on. You also want to be careful to specify about the quality of materials they plan to use.

These are only the issues we had relating to costs/bids. You might also want to get written agreement regarding any other expectations (such as the schedule, if they cause damage in some way or do sloppy work). Although these folks seemed very nice, throughout the job they did things that slowed down our project schedule & impacted us negatively in other ways.

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[undrgrndmwn]

We are going to do everything ourselves (up to the panel). Total cost for the materials is under $1,000. The materials cost for this project was high because we decided (since we’re doing it ourselves) to build a fancy lighting scheme, with the capability of having different “scenes” depending on the purpose we are using the room for. This concept was NOT part of the original quote we received from the rip-off electrical company. This will be vital practice for us in taking on the more complex lighting design through the rest of the house.

BTW, we got bitten at Seattle Lighting. They have a great showroom in Bellevue and some very knowledgeable staff, but the cost for their products is quite high (it turns out). Even worse, if they are “out-of-stock” of an item and have to order it for you, it is considered a “special” order and cannot be returned. When we found the same items (top of the line low profile recessed cans, dimmers, and scene controller) for far less online, we were kicking ourselves for paying what Seattle Lighting asked without question.

Also included in the total cost of the materials are the various tools (like a multimeter, probe, etc) that are now ours to keep and will make subsequent projects cheaper. Or, as hubby will doubtless point out, the cost of these tools should properly be counted in/against the total cost of the whole house rewire.

We’ve decided to create a wiring cabinet for hi-def capable coax and Cat-6 wiring. Although wireless computing is great, there are many applications still for Cat-5 or 6, like VoIP, for one.

The permit (which rip-off company didn’t want to pull) is only about $90.

I am starting to think that we will be able to do the whole house rewire for around $5,000 – $7,000 for materials, which will include 4 or 5 nice ceiling fans, coax, Cat-6, and top-of-the-line recessed lighting cans and switches. This cost could go up if we find any applications for LED lighting and/or add fancy pendants or chandeliers to the kitchen/dining remodel.

I’m thinking we may be able to sell the old wire we’re pulling out for salvage, since copper is quite expensive.

In the past, I worked for an exceedingly honest telecom company as an installer. I called BS on this company quite properly. I know what a pain pulling cable can be. I also know that our situation is as easy a run as can be in old construction.

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