Home › Forums › Open Discussion › Dorli Rainey the 84 year old woman pepper sprayed will speak at Occupy Sea. Sat.
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November 21, 2011 at 10:42 pm #740984
JVMemberDobro, I care what you think! Don’t let that mean Bostonman get you down! ;)
I appreciate Bostonman’s clear answer – All non lethal forms of riot control. Easy to understand, cut and dry. Agree or disagree, we know where he stands. (I agree.)
So let’s hear it Dobro, where is your line on this issue? Should people be allowed to shut down traffic? How do we manage that situation? Should we allow only harsh language? Yellow police tape? Squirt guns? Should they be allowed to prevent people from going to work, or walking down the street? I’ve heard a lot of commentary from you, but when it comes right down to it you are pretty elusive with your own opinions on any of these matters.
I care what you think Dobro, so let’s hear it.
November 21, 2011 at 10:50 pm #740985
JanSParticipantJV…get over yourself. It’s the only thing you bring up, time and again. You are speaking as if that is the majority of people in the protest, and that people should be fearful. You do yourself a disservice, and you do the intelligent, peaceable protestors (who may not agree with your views)a disservice, and you spread fear to people. You have not witnessed anything firsthand…you just report what you read. It is tiresome.
Yes, there is a faction of people who have joined the occupy movement that we all wish was not there. But it is NOT the only thing we talk about. There is so much more to it, and it should be generating constructive, intelligent conversation, if nothing else. Do I go to the protests? NO..I have failing kidneys, and spend my time at other things like dialysis. Do I support the core movement? Undoubtedly. Would I like to see you and people like you dismiss as bad the protestors who are a pain in the ass, and move on, and lets talk the issues? Damned straight.
And guess what? I don’t listen to NPR. I work at home, at the age of 64,with illness and failing kidneys and, like you, don’t have the time, often. Dorli Rainey? She, in her life, has never been your idea of a woman who sits at home, barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, baking cookies, and knitting scarves. She may do that in her spare time, but she has devoted her adult life to what she sees as the injustices in the world. She walks her talk, which is more than I can say about a lot of us on here…so tell me what she did that was so wrong as to be pepper sprayed directly in the face?
November 21, 2011 at 11:33 pm #740986
JVMemberJan, I accept your criticism. You said I spread fear to people and just report what I read. Okay, I’m fine with that. In contrast, you are spreading a dangerous niavete about this movement based on what you read. One of us is right, one of us is wrong.
Maybe it falls somewhere in the middle.
Or maybe we are just reading different articles.
November 21, 2011 at 11:47 pm #740987
csw2119ParticipantJV all I can say is if you want to know what is going on with the movement, you will have to come to Westlake on a Sat. or go to one of the General Assembly meetings held every night.
Also, Jan said something very important:
“Yes, there is a faction of people who have joined the occupy movement that we all wish was not there. But it is NOT the only thing we talk about. There is so much more to it, and it should be generating constructive, intelligent conversation, if nothing else.”
I was in the middle of a group of 3,000-5,000 protesters a couple of weeks ago, and I can tell you with out a doubt, I felt safer in that huge crowd than I was walking down 3rd Ave. in the middle of the day.
November 21, 2011 at 11:52 pm #740988
csw2119ParticipantI forgot to mention, I heard Dorli speak this past Sat. at Westlake. She was AWESOME, she is fighting to keep our Medicare and Social Security. Besides she is as cute as they come, all 4’10” of her! I can’t begin to imaging being that dynamic at 84 yrs.
November 22, 2011 at 12:06 am #740989
greatfree1MemberI’m for this movement, saying that, what are the police supposed to do when people won’t obey their commands? Really, I want to know. It seems as though the police are always in the wrong. To rough or not tough enough.
November 22, 2011 at 12:28 am #740990
DBPMemberStrange as it seems, there is some logic to what Boston, kootch, and JV are saying.
Now before you cut me off at the knees . . . I’m NOT saying the cops were right to pepper-spray Dorli. But there does come a point in any protest movement when you can expect the authorities to start pushing back. (Otherwise, what exactly are you protesting, anyway?)
The issue here is not whether civil disobedience is ever justified, nor is it whether the government has a right to maintain public order. The issue is whether, in this one instance, the cops responded appropriately to the situation.
I say no: the cops used too much force. And they’ve taken some heat for it, which I think is appropriate.
The question of civil disobedience in general is really another matter and we should probably discuss that one outside the context of headlines like “Local grandma gets pepper-sprayed.”
I’ll start that thread presently.
November 22, 2011 at 12:35 am #740991
JanSParticipantwell, JV…I do not go to the protests because I am not physically able, but I have friends that do…over 40 friends…and they are not campers, they have jobs, they have homes, they take baths, they are not criminals and they are not bums…you?
November 22, 2011 at 12:41 am #740992
JanSParticipantDBP..Dorli said herself that she is one tough cookie, and being sprayed with pepper spray, while uncomfortable, energized her. My gripe is that’s the only time you see coverage of the Occupy movement..when the pepper spray breaks out, or when a small faction creates havoc. And it creates a false idea about the major parts of the movement, the peaceable, intelligent parts. You and I both know that it’s not all bums, ne’er-do-wells( I love that word – lol), that it’s people like you and me, too. But in a perfect world, a “protest” would have rules, and not inconvenience anyone, and stay within the lines, and not make waves. And you and I both know that it’s far from a perfect world. I do feel, however, that there are people in higher places that need to feel that inconvenience, not always the “person on the street”.
November 22, 2011 at 12:55 am #740993
csw2119ParticipantI was at the very first march and we marched on the sidewalks and stopped for every light. It was as civil as it could be. I have marched with thousands, again, orderly. I don’t know why the police were so aggressive the night Dorli was pepper sprayed. I marched the following night and there were about 1,000 and lots of cops and all was fine. You have to keep in mind, there are people protesting with us that are NOT part of the movement. If they cause problems or destroy property, I’ll be the first to get a cop involved.
November 22, 2011 at 1:28 am #740994
kootchmanMemberIf I need to feel inconvenience… than you need to feel pepper spray. That’s a fair trade dontcha think? It’s a fairness thing.
November 22, 2011 at 1:33 am #740995
redblackParticipantokay, kootch. next time you hold up traffic because your car stalls, or you’re talking on the phone, or you write a check in the grocery store line, or you stop suddenly in the middle of the sidewalk, or you cross the street when i’m trying to turn, or you slow me down in any way from getting where i’m going, i get to pepper spray you.
it’s a fairness thing.
November 22, 2011 at 3:12 am #740996
JVMemberRedblack, if kootch is breaking the law when doing any of those ings, feel free.
Again:
Illegal = pepper spray.
Legal = no pepper spray
Simple enough right?
November 22, 2011 at 3:24 am #740997
jamminjMembersorry, didnt read every post but this stood out:
“Because I broke the law.”
It used to be against the law to sit on the white side of the counter if you were black. Thank GOD someone decided to BREAK the law.
Not saying I agree with OCW 100%, but if your argument is the law is always right… then you probably have no problem with pro-choice, since its what the LAW allows. gotta follow the law.
November 22, 2011 at 3:58 am #740998
kootchmanMemberPro choice is the law of the land.. for now. What will overturn it? Repetitive constant assaults against it. Support is diminishing for pro-choice, it is in retreat at every juncture. Why so? Time, conviction, persistence, civil disobedience and a sharp clear message from the opposition. The pro-life movement didn’t stand around in putrid public and private spaces with vacuous stares. They went after the practitioners, the institutions, and the fence sitting politicians. Direct action against the appropriate targets.
November 22, 2011 at 4:22 am #740999
JanSParticipantyeah, including killing the doctors…
November 22, 2011 at 6:17 am #741000
JoBParticipantJV…
women get raped and people die of drug overdoses at all types of public venues…
yet we don’t hear much about it…
is that another Oberman conspiracy?
Or are they all Occupy Wall Street gatherings in disguise?
Anywhere two or more gather …
November 22, 2011 at 6:20 am #741001
JoBParticipantkootch…
you overestimate your case
pro-choice is not dead.
the extremist legislation that has been floated this year that far exceeded restricting abortion has made it abundantly clear to even anti-abortion women that personal choice is a necessity if they want to control their own family planning.
November 22, 2011 at 3:10 pm #741002
redblackParticipantIllegal = pepper spray.
Legal = no pepper spray
Simple enough right?
sure. if you’re an automaton and can’t discern when disobedient people need to be “put down” and when they can simply be picked up, cuffed, and thrown in a paddy wagon.
or simply ignored.
full-riot-gear response from cops when people are merely sitting or obstructing doesn’t warrant assault with pepper spray.
regarding the pro-choice movement, a red state recently rejected a law – overwhelmingly – that declared a fetus a person.
the “pro-life” freepers can’t get ‘er done in the several states, either, let alone in the federal government. it seems the only thing they can do is try to defund and disparage a benevolent organization that helps low-income people with family planning.
jesus would be proud.
November 22, 2011 at 7:00 pm #741003
BostonmanMemberI love that this turned into a car being broken down conversation. Way to take things literally. Now if I break down a cop comes and tells me to have my car towed and I tell him to piss off I want to block traffic then he is going to move it for me. If I fight him on it then I will get arrested.
Thats a better scenario. But if you can get your pepper spray to me and run away before you get hit with my 45 then good luck to you.
November 23, 2011 at 1:33 am #741004
redblackParticipantmy post was as hyperbolic and ridiculous as kootch’s, and it was intentional. the problem is that kootch seems to think being inconvenienced is a justification for pepper-spraying someone.
November 23, 2011 at 3:06 am #741005
JoBParticipantredblack…
it’s ok
Bostonman seems to think pepper spray is a reason to shoot someone…
oh dear
lions and tigers and bears, oh my
November 23, 2011 at 5:48 am #741006
dobroParticipantCommentary doesn’t really get more pathetic than guys boasting about what big guns they have.
November 23, 2011 at 7:49 am #741007
HMC RichParticipantIt was an illegal protest. Dorly knew the risks. She has stated she wants regime change. (which regime by the way?) I am not pro or con for Dorly. The protestors were told to leave. They obstructed many you call the 99%. That protest only alienated people who may have somewhat supported the movement. Mayor McGinn was his spineless self and apologized. The Police did their job. I wish he would.
Typical. Illegal immigrants, illegal drugs, illegal protest, illegal etc, and you guys always back up the illegal stuff don’t you?
Do you think the Police want to deal with this? And in these hard budget strapped times, who the hell is paying for the overtime for the Police? Yeah, the 99% and the 1%.
The Occupy movement has turned into a farce. If at one time the Tea Party would have had rape, public urination and defecation, drug busts, racist comments, you guys would have been screaming about it for two years.
I support people’s right to protest but not to undermine the fabric of our society and in some places to undermine just common decency. Obama, Piven and crew want this dissatisfaction with our society. Funny, Obama got shouted down today (not by conservatives either). This is not a good path. Of course, him calling us Lazy probably wasn’t such a good idea.
The occupy entitlement mentality shows how spoiled some of these people are. They say they care but I am not certain I see it. They are not protesters anymore. They are squatters and need to be removed…heck, I’ll even supply the RID.
November 23, 2011 at 8:06 am #741008
JanSParticipantrich…you see things one way…you want them to “care” in your interpretation. You claim rampant rape, drug use. Here in Seattle? Proof? If no one made noise and only did what you want, you would assume that they agree with you, your beliefs, your interpretation of things. The reality is…there are lots of people who see things differently than you – and if nothing else, they are now speaking up…and I’m willing to bet that they are pissing you off royally. it’s only correct if you control it?
Now, before you jump on me, I don’t condone everything that the protesters do..I guess I come from an era that saw a lot of civil unrest, and yes, was in the middle of tear gassed demonstrators…long time ago. I get it, I suppose, even if I’m not there joining them.
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