Dem Convention – Anyone watching?

[HP]

AMEN!! to smart presidents over dumb ones!!!!

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[WSMom]

I remember thinking eight years ago, oh well, Bush won, but really, what harm can he do, Cheney seems smart and experienced, it’ll be okay…

OMG!!!

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[JoB]

Walfredo..

New Resident is supporting McCain.. because.. well… i think it’s because she is a republican:)

WsMom.. thanks for the chuckle this morning. i found both videos moving.

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[HP]

wsmom i too was of that thinking 8 years ago but i remember 4 years ago thinking and saying theres no way dubya can win again no way ..america is smarter than to elect him a second time after seeing what we had seen in his first term..then he won and i joked with my friends about moving to canada but of course i did not move i just knew it was going to be a long 4 years..so as much as i want obama to win i am still nervous about it, this lady from alaska is a devout christian that could be part of his strategy seeing how imo the bible belt is where gwb got tons of his votes and without them he wouldn’t have had a chance. this is aside from the very obvious reason he picked her but she is no hillary, and to second what acemotel said on the other thread it looks likea blatent strategic move on mccains part rather than choosing some one who would be more ready to run the country in his absence.

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[JoB]

HP…

yup.. blatant political move.

let’s hope it backfires on him

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[add]

The reason gwb won the last time was because of the move to put all those local/state same-sex marriage initiatives on the ballots in the “bible belt”. That really got the vote out … so I’m wondering what hot-button issue it will be this year? That tactic is so disgusting!

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[Tonya42]

“You know what they mean by that, Jan…but they’ll never admit it out loud…but they come up with all sorts of not-so-thinly veiled ways to say it…like he’s “not American” ”

Is there some secret squirrel society I should know about? What does this mean? When I said McCain was more American than Obama I meant it. I meant it in that his beliefs are more mainstream as opposed to the more radical beliefs of Obama. Must you always try to infer that just because I don’t subscribe to your candidate that I have a hidden sinister agenda (veiled illusion as stated above) and that includes dislikes for people because they have are of a different religion or race? That is pure ignorance and you wear it so well.

” JoB tonya42..

there is really no place to start with your assessment.”

I see… well I don;t see why not,I presented a logical and pragmatic case and your reply did not address it, only presented me with more questions and a request to further research McCain.

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[Anonymous]

“Is there some secret squirrel society I should know about? What does this mean? When I said McCain was more American than Obama I meant it. I meant it in that his beliefs are more mainstream as opposed to the more radical beliefs of Obama. Must you always try to infer that just because I don’t subscribe to your candidate that I have a hidden sinister agenda (veiled illusion as stated above) and that includes dislikes for people because they have are of a different religion or race? That is pure ignorance and you wear it so well”

Tonya – Thank you. This, to me, is the most offensive thing about Obama and his supporters. You are correct in challenging the assumption that some Liberals will make simply because you voice your concern about their candidate. I think jumping to that assumption is extremely ignorant, intolerant and offensive.

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[Anonymous]

I just want to know what *sensible American values* are? I have values (Beliefs of a person or social group in which they have an emotional investment-either for or against something), not sure if they’re sensible, however I am an American. Do mine count or do republicans get to chose what qualifies?

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[Zenguy]

I would love to see what the “mainstream” checklist looks like. Exactly who decides what mainstream is?

Have you seen the statistics that whites will be the minority by 2050, which is probably when the Republicans will run their first presidential candidate, it only took them twenty-five to run a woman after the Democrats did.

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[Anonymous]

“New Resident is supporting McCain.. because.. well… i think it’s because she is a republican:)” – JoB

Btw, I am supporting McCain, and the Republican, Party for reasons that I have explained, at length, several times now on this forum. Not for the singular fact that he is a Republican.

But, isn’t that why you are supporting Obama (….well… because he is a Democrat), now that your candidate is out?

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[charlabob]

JT, the problem with all this “American(sic)” values stuff, as I suspect Tonya knows, is that when people are polled about specific issues, such as abortion, subsidised child care, and even the dread “socialized medicine” they favor the progressive side. By a lot. Down the line. Gun control is actually the only issue that doesn’t follow that pattern — and I’m not ever sure what the “liberal” position on that is.

This year, for the first time, they don’t even cringe at the word “socialism.”

So, Zenguy, that’s the secret they’d like to forget. Fringe opinion is that of the right — not the left. For a fine example, check out the newly-minted Repug Platform. I’d send a link, but it’s password protected — part of their push for transparency, no doubt.

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[RS]

Tonya42: “I meant it in that his beliefs are more mainstream as opposed to the more radical beliefs of Obama.”

You do realize that the polls show that about half the country support Obama, right? So how are you defining “mainstream”??? Oh, wait, I know. With more meaningless and completely subjective buzzwords like traditional, sensible, individualist, benign, etc. You can hardly call someone’s ideas “radical” if they are those of a majority of the population. If you want real radical policies, try the Communists (cpusa.org) or the Green Party (gp.org), they’ll hook you up with some non-mainstream ideas for comparison.

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[JoB]

Tonya42…

the point of the Obama questions was to point out the information left out of your logical assessment.

like a basic understanding of south side Chicago politics and the intellectual culture of the University of Chicago.

and a basic lack of understanding of American values.. like fair play.

That’s when you tar someone with their own brush.. not the brush of anyone you can find who ever came in contact with them.

oh. and a basic lack of understanding of the mid-west values of the grandparents who actually raised Barak Obama.

but it is evident you would benefit from even more research.

you should look up what mainstream means in America today…

even New Resident didn’t find herself aligned so far to the right in a political assessment when the issues were the determining factor.

so pick an issue.. any issue.. and look for the poll results on that issue.

i think you will find that mainstream America has moved on…

but.. surprise me if you can.

It’s not the 50s any more. McCarthy is not an American hero. The cold war is dead..

unless the current batch of republican hacks manages to bring it up just long enough to sway the election… and even then it won’t last long. There’s no economic upside.

I mean this in the nicest way..

america has grown enough that Mike Huckabee.. a boy from the south.. publicly says that it’s great that there is a person of color running for President… and that race has been such a non-issue..

It would have been better had he gone one step further and embraced all religions as well..

But heck, it’s a start.

If Mike has come that far, perhaps your attitude is just a touch outdated.

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[JanS]

so, my question that keeps popping up in mymmind…for those of you women specifically who are voting for McCain. It’s really a fundamental question. Are you telling me that you’re OK with taking Roe v. Wade away, taking choice away? Do you have daughters? If a daughter was one day raped, G-d forbid, and became pregnant, you can go along with her having to have that child because she wouldn’t have any other choice? You really, really want to take that choice away from her. A vote for McCain is saying that you’re aligned with him, and that’s how he, and his new VP running mate feel.

NR…your daughter is young…but..do you really want to go there?

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[Zenguy]

But remember we are only talking about taking away abortions from average Americans. The rich will still be able to find doctors willing to do the procedure for the right price.

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[Anonymous]

JanS – I have stated time and again that I am extremely pro-choice!!!

If you really must bring my young daughter into the argument to make your point, I’ll play along….

Yes, I would like my daughter to have a choice if something as terrible as you suggested happened to her.

Issues I have with abortion are with the overuse, or inappropriate use, of the procedure. There are young girls who have had multiple abortions due to their refusal to act responsibly and use protection. This I do not condone. This, I would think, my daughter would never have to consider doing (I’m actually raising her with morals and values and good self-esteem). It starts at home and it starts the day your child is born.

So, I will still vote Republican (even though there is that 1 in 1 million chance that my daughter is the victim of such a heinous, violent crime, as you suggest).

My vote is based on several issues, not just one (heck, not even just a couple).

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[Zenguy]

And we probably will never have to worry about that here unless they add a constitutional ban, which is unlikely. More likely is that Roe V Wade would be overturned and some states would restrict abortion affecting probably the poor most of all. I think everyone’s daughters deserve the right to choose when faced with that situation.

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[islanddweller]

no.

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[JoB]

NewResdient…

That one in a million chance you are musing over doesn’t look so remote when you find out how many of the women you know either gave children up for adoption or had abortions to end an unwanted pregnancy.

one in a million? nope.. unless we can control our bodies we aren’t that lucky.

i know, i grew up before birth control.. and we will be right back there if we decide the right to life begins at conception.. because anything hindering that conception will be illegal.

Rose vs Wade??? .. we are fighting for the right to birth control.

I can tell you from personal experience that although there are exceptions to every rule, having worked with literally thousands of women who had to end a pregnancy.. or carry a baby to term and relinquish it… it’s not an easy thing no matter which decision you make.

the son i had out of wedlock turns 40 today.. and i am lucky enough to know him and have a great relationship with him and his family… but only a few short years ago, this was the saddest day of the year for me.

Trust me.. those shoes are heavy and they pinch more than just a little.

this is one issue every woman should fight to the death over.. because it is literally life and death for our daughters and granddaughters and greatgranddaughters.

There is a reason that childbearing is no longer the number one cause of death in America.. and it isn’t just because medical practices have improved.

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[JoB]

Zenguy,

the most poor of us all are already affected.

For them to have abortions, you have to have inexpensive abortion clinics and the insurance risks when a doctor puts their lives and the lives of anyone in their clinic at risk from violence are prohibitive.

In some states there are no abortion clinics at all.

in others.. surprisingly well endowed with other medical facilities.. there are one or two in the most urban areas.

I don’t believe that abortion is covered by public health programs in most states and neither is contraception.

There are pharmacies where pharmacists refuse to dispense the morning after pill even if you have a prescription.. and countless more where they simply say they are out of stock and it will take a week to order it… making it ineffective.

Abortion is already out of reach financially for the very poor.. and for those who are simply less affluent and/or don’t have access to an urban clinic as well.

no joke… and that’s before challenging roe vs wade.

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[Anonymous]

JoB – The 1 in a 1 million chance was in reference to JanS suggesting that my daughter would be raped and impregnated.

I agree with pro-choice, I don’t agree with being told what I should vote for or fight for (just because I am a woman and have a daughter). That’s your OPINION.

Abortion is used as a form of birth control far too often. Education is the real tool to win that fight. I educate my daughter and, in effect, am fighting this issue for her.

Thanks for the advice, but I’m handling the responsibilities of being a parent just fine.

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[charlabob]

Abortion is used as a form of birth control far too often. Education is the real tool to win that fight. I educate my daughter and, in effect, am fighting this issue for her.

I would like to see your evidence of the frequency of use of abortion as birth control. If, in fact, there’s even a slight increase, I think we can attribute it to the ludicrous notion that all we’re allowed to teach is abstinence.

I agree we should avoid critiquing parenting styles. As a step parent and grandparent, I also recommend we all avoid smug self-satisfaction about the job we’re doing as parents, and extrapolating from that the notion that any problem does not affect us.

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[Anonymous]

Abortion as Birth Control

Using abortion as birth control means that abortion is being used as a back-up method to ineffective or improperly used contraception, or no contraception is being used at all. Of women having abortions,

* 46% did not use contraception during the month they became pregnant

* 8% never used a method of birth control

* 47% have had at least one previous abortion

Although there are situations in which abortion is in response to health concerns of the mother or fetus, or in response to pregnancy arising from abuse, the majority of abortions are obtained for social and financial reasons. The primary reasons given for choosing abortion are given below.

* 75% say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or other responsibilities

* about 75% say they cannot afford a child

* 50% do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner

Using abortion as birth control is not healthy physically or psychologically, and is not a mature or responsible approach to sex. Women obtaining abortions are at higher risk for reproductive tract infections, including HIV and PID. If you are using abortion as birth control, you are encouraged to rethink your sexual decisions. You might wait on sex until you find a relationship where you could continue a pregnancy should one occur.

Source: AGI, Facts in Brief, Induced Abortion, Revised 1/2008.

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[Anonymous]

I agree, charla! And, on that note, I also believe that we should all refrain from telling others how they should feel, what they should fight for and what they still need to learn.

I think your suggestion and mine, together, make for a much friendlier, open forum!

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[Author]

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