From pickleball to pumpkins to police @ Fauntleroy Community Association’s final 2023 meeting

By Tracy Record
West Seattle Blog editor

Two weeks after Seattle Parks announced a two-week “pause” in the Lincoln Park pickleball-court project, opponents took their case to the Fauntleroy Community Association board.

That was one of the topics at the board’s monthly meeting last night. President Mike Dey facilitated the meeting in the conference room at historic Fauntleroy Schoolhouse, and it also was streamed. First, other, somewhat briefer topics:

SEATTLE POLICE: The Southwest Precinct sergeant who attended mentioned the recent crime trends on which we’ve reported here, such as armed robberies committed using stolen cars: “We’ve been getting hit pretty hard. … They wear masks, they have firearms, late teens-early 20s, normally hitting between 3 and 4 in the morning” – possibly the same robbers but they’re using different vehicles. He also noted the crash-and-grab burglary trend, including the multiple hits at Global Smoke and Vape (35th/Roxbury). One attendee says stolen cars are being dumped at Barton P-Patch and urges people to report cars that look like they’ve been broken into. Asked if Kias and Hyundais were still the predominant makes of cars being stolen, he said yes, but “we’re seeing others now.” Another trend he mentioned, many reports of suspected gunfire, but many not verified as it’s “really hard to pinpoint.” Did he think it’s a good idea for the city to buy the ShotSpotter gunfire-detection system that’s under consideration? He said yes.

PUMPKIN SEARCH POSTMORTEM: The event held October 21 was a success, reported coordinator Candace Blue – despite imperfect weather, 200 pumpkins were hidden by 8 volunteers, and the event drew the same amount of attendance as last year (when weather was much better), at least 70 people – lots of fun and gratitude, she reported. “People do love the event a lot.” 11 pumpkins had “special gifts.”

(Line for bunny-petting tent at last month’s festival)

FAUNTLEROY FALL FESTIVAL: October 20 will be the date next year. This year was a “massive success,” reported organizer Reed Haggerty – the committee was scheduled to meet today for feedback. People came out despite the not-so-great weather. This was the second year for a new-ish committee and they “clicked,” he said. It brought in donations and money from merch to put toward next year’s expenses. They’re estimating about 2,000 people attended. Haggerty said people descended on the festival site right at the moment it opened, 2 pm. Yes, there was a wait for the bunny petting area, even though they added more bunnies and more volunteers. They had last-minute scratches by The Falconer and Endolyne Children’s Choir and yet it was a huge success anyway. Next year they may add something else on the back side of the schoolhouse to take the pressure off the bunnies, who drew a lengthy line right from the start.

(Reader photo, last month)

LINCOLN PARK PICKLEBALL-COURT PROJECT: The guests were all opponents of the project, but Dey made it clear that FCA is interested in fact-finding around all sides of the issue. (Very short recap if this is new to you – Seattle Parks was going to add pickleball striping to three of the Solstice Park tennis courts, then suddenly announced it had dropped that plan and instead would set up six pickleball courts on a paved Lincoln Park site that had once been used for tennis and more recently had been used for Parks maintenance storage. Opponents launched a petition drive to stop it, citing concerns that pickleball noise – and possible future court lighting – would be disruptive to wildlife.)

First speaker was Bret Barnecut, who said Parks has been calling the site “an abandoned tennis court” but showed a photo of a weathered sign referring to the other uses of the site. He said the pavement on the site has been “massaged” by heavy trucks for years – 12,000 square feet where water doesn’t run off, “it’s that permmeable … there’s no drainage.” He went into background about how the site hasn’t been used for tennis for at least 20 years. He recapped the Parks pickleball study that listed 16 potential sites “and Lincoln Park wasn’t one of them.” He suggested the courts would be unappealing to players because they aren’t in view from the parking area – so you wouldn’t know on arrival if they were in use or not – and they’ll be wet. The “overlay” that Parks is planning won’t be enough, he suggested – the current pavement’s problems will come through. “What they’re building here is a temporary court.”

Kersti Muul spoke next, focusing on the wildlife. She stressed her Fauntleroy ties and involvement, including managing the trees on the Fauntleroy Church property and also working with the Fauntleroy Watershed Council for many years. She spoke about the effects of “sensory pollutants” on wildlife – noise and lights. She talked about the variety of birds in Lincoln Park and showed some photos. “Birds see can hear way better than humans do.” 160+ species of birds in Lincoln Park, she said, 64% of all the bird species documented in Seattle. She says that Parks has not done the wildlife study they promised to do during the “two-week pause” – though she mentioned later that she would be meeting with Parks today – and she said the heavy equipment hasn’t been moved from the site. She says it’s difficult to study how noise impacts birds, but it “reduces diversity, disrupts communication … causes delayed nesting,” also “light pollution causes early nesting .. .” She said a study on owls exposed to noise showed their hunting success going down when decibels went up. She said this all “interferes with birds’ ability to ‘just live’.”

She also brought up bats, saying that Lincoln Park has a great bat population – but lights (corrected) repel bats and attract insects, which she said are in a “catastrophic decline” already. She said these wildlife are already “stressed out” and we’re asking them to do more. She showed photos of herself rescuing birds in Lincoln Park – “all of these raptors nest and use this particular area. … Why are we risking this for pickleball?”

Kathy Heffernan then spoke, with more on “the noise of pickleball.” She lives about five blocks from the park and is a hospital chaplain. “Because of the work I do, Lincoln Park has been a refuge and a quiet sanctuary for me for 20 years.” She spoke of being healed by the “deep comfort” of Lincoln Park’s quiet. She says pickleball will jeopardize relaxation for many park users. She talked about the nationwide complaints about pickleball noise. She cited various concerns about pickleball noise and its “high pitch” plus comparisons to the sound of a trash truck backing up. She said the annoying sound happens every two seconds and that it’s similar to sounds inducing hypervigilance in humans. “Unless they are 977 feet away the noise will be intolerable. … There are pickleball courts all over Seattle but there’s only one Lincoln Park.”

FCA questions: What about lights? It was noted that Parks hasn’t committed one way or another, though Parks stated two weeks ago that they “will not pursue lighting at this time”; they’ve told us that lights would require funding that doesn’t currently exist. How does it compare to the sound of kids playing baseball? They weren’t sure. Muul pointed out that baseball is a seasonal game and it’s not a sustained sound. Dey reiterated that he wanted to have “the facts.” If it’s a daytime sport it’s hard to argue that it’s going to be a bigger problem, “I’m trying to understand.” The project opponents pointed out the problem is that pickleball-hitting is “incessant.” FCA’s Bill Wellington said he’d want to hear it in person to make up his mind. FCA’s Alan Grainger, who said he’d once had a pickleball court, talked about the exuberance of players shouting, whooping, “having a great time … very different from the mood of playing tennis.”

In the end, Dey declared that they’d need to fact-find further, including hearing from Parks, before deciding whether to take a stand on the project. (Side note: We asked Parks again today about the project’s status, and the reply was, “Currently we are still meeting with bird advocates to develop a study on the impact of pickleball.”)

FAUNTLEROY SURVEY: About 3,000 cards were mailed out; so far 416 people have responded. The survey (take it here if you live/work in Fauntleroy) is open through December 4th. FCA will publish the results and take them under consideration for their focus in the next two years. (Traffic issues were big in the last survey, for example.)

(The seven size/shape options that represent the nine alternatives)

FERRY MEETING: FCA’s ferry-issues point person Frank Immel recapped last month’s Community Advisory Group meeting (WSB coverage here), at which Washington State Ferries presented nine variations of the dock rebuild. Board members were interested in the length and width of the dock concept options and how Cove Park, north of the dock, might be affected, and WSF’s sudden suggestion of possibly cutting into the Captain’s Park bluff to add a traffic light and lane. Immel is reaching out to Vashon to explain the Fauntleroy issues – “we’re not against them, we’re trying to help them.” He’s also asking WSF for facts such as loads and ridership. Dey noted that City Councilmember-elect Rob Saka has expressed support for FCA’s position on the dock. Immel said WSF’s Hadley Rodero has offered to come to an FCA meetings and all agreed they should accept that offer.

NO MEETING IN DECEMBER: Next FCA meeting will be January 9. Watch fauntleroy.net for updates.

79 Replies to "From pickleball to pumpkins to police @ Fauntleroy Community Association's final 2023 meeting"

  • JustSarah November 15, 2023 (9:55 pm)

    I’m annoyed with myself for missing this meeting notice, but as a Fauntleroy resident I’ll be providing my feedback on the pickleball project via email. If anyone else wants to do so, email contact@fauntleroy.net or you can find specific board member info at fauntleroy.netThey especially should hear from people in support of the plan, because so far the only voices in the press are anti. That doesn’t necessarily mean that’s actually the case, but that is the perception. 

  • 1994 November 15, 2023 (10:29 pm)

    The great pickle ball war of 2023 continues…..good to read the FCA is open to fact finding for all sides of this issue.  A fact for all to keep in mind is that there are many types of birds, bats, and  other critters that live outside of Lincoln Park in our neighborhoods. The wildlife critters have adapted to the city/residential environment humans have created and will probably adapt to pickle ball too.  I suspect the anti-pickle ball supporters don’t want to adapt to a new feature at the park. 

    • Cat Girl November 16, 2023 (7:09 am)

      The majority of wildlife has not adapted. Since 1970 69% of wildlife in the world had died due to human encroachment on their territory.  https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2022/oct/13/almost-70-of-animal-populations-wiped-out-since-1970-report-reveals-aoe

      • FactFree? November 16, 2023 (2:51 pm)

        @ Cat Girl,
        Please respond to all of the wildlife that has become extinct from Lincoln Park since 1970?  
        The wildlife in Lincoln Park has seen great  resurgence since the late 1960s when there’re were no Bald Eagles.  

        King County’s urban streams are showing signs of improving health. Just ask the bugs.https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/king-countys-urban-streams-are-showing-signs-of-improving-health-just-ask-the-bugs/  
        The Seattle Times is an article about the surprising revival of small creatures in Seattle many small creeks.  
        This was surprise to the academic and qualified biologists with actual studies, from the U of W.  
        They were particularly surprised by the fact that of reappearance of creek insects and fresh water clams  despite the development and increase of human encroachment.  
        These were actual scientific studies as opposed to unverifiable claims by activists like those speaking only on one  side at the Fauntleroy  Community Association.  

        I am disappointed that FCA did not provide any opportunity for others with facts to discuss.  

        I hope  FCA provides a forum for people with opposing viewpoints about turning Lincoln Park into a nature preserve with no sports, recreation, picnicking or fishing.  
        I would be happy to show up with actual recordings of dB levels measured at Lincoln Park now and the sound of pickleball at Walt Hundley.  
        I have shared these results with Lisa Herbold.  

        • Cat Girl November 16, 2023 (7:06 pm)

          Chill on the caps and the hyperbole. I’m genuinely happy that wildlife is thriving in Lincoln Park! It genuinely makes me happy. This is further proof that we should leave the park as is and not add something as disruptive as pickleball to the area. 

          • Jonesy November 16, 2023 (7:32 pm)

            Uh, those aren’t “caps,” it’s bolded font. I don’t think it was intentional, but a carryover from the copied/pasted text from another source. 

          • FactFree? November 17, 2023 (7:25 am)

            Thank you Jonesy.  You are correct. I was unable to change the font size. I still appeal for facts regarding the discussion from CatGirl?

          • Cat Girl November 17, 2023 (12:31 pm)

            I attached a link in my first response to you. The problem is that you refuse to listen to anyone who disagrees with you. No one owes you a scientific explanation for why they don’t want to listen to the incredibly loud high pitched sounds of pickleball echoing through Lincoln Park. It will be incredibly disruptive and that’s a good enough reason! Besides, it doesn’t take science to know that loud noises are disturbing to humans and animals. 

    • KBear November 16, 2023 (8:51 am)

      Just because some wildlife can adapt well to the built environment doesn’t mean all creatures can, and it’s certainly not any kind of justification for destroying what little natural habitat we have left in the city. People can play pickleball somewhere else.

  • Tired of the BS November 16, 2023 (12:21 am)

    It should be noted that Lincoln Park is a city asset and not the inclusive purview of the FCA…

  • Raye November 16, 2023 (1:17 am)

    Funny, I don’t see so many birds, bats, and other critters in my neighborhood. Plenty of bunnies, though.By the way, loss of habitat is an issue. Unless you’re a bunny, I guess.

  • Beans November 16, 2023 (3:49 am)

    I really wish the West Seattle community would focus more on solving the abhorrent crime uptick in the neighborhood rather than the Pickle Ball issue… Elephant in the room, eh?

    • Cat Girl November 16, 2023 (10:04 am)

      People can be and are concerned with both. This is not an either/or situation.

  • Pete November 16, 2023 (6:19 am)

    Shotspotter doesn’t work. It’s a total waste of time and money. Basically every independent study has shown this. It’s thankfully not too expensive (just a mere million bucks) but it’s so disappointing to see elected officials who are seemingly incapable of reading. Herbold was the only one voting against it I believe? She ain’t all bad.

  • Kersti Muul November 16, 2023 (7:20 am)

    I said lights ‘repel bats and attract insects’ (the reverse of what’s written here )Also I said over 120 species of birds have been documented in the park.To note also, almost 50 species are documented in that site alone(6 years of data collection for the neighborhood bird project )

    I did in fact meet with parks yesterday – so be expecting new announcements from them on this.

    • WSB November 16, 2023 (9:24 am)

      OK, flipping the bat verbs, thanks.

      • flimflam November 16, 2023 (10:44 am)

        Now I have the old Batman theme in my head but with “BatVerbs!”…

    • FactFree? November 16, 2023 (3:06 pm)

      Kersti,Please compare the number of birds in New York City’s Central Park to this of Lincoln Park?  Data from the Audubon NYC,  “more than 280 bird species have been recorded here; 192 are regular visitors or year-round residents and over 88 are infrequent or rare visitors.”Mind you, this is in the middle of Manhattan skyscraper canyon with 24 hour noise, massive car and truck traffic running constantly bisecting it and Central Park has 16 outdoor pickleball courts! 

      • FactFree! November 17, 2023 (12:23 pm)

        Fact- this is not NYC and posting information on the bird population in Central Park is in no way relevant to discussion of Lincoln Park

  • Kersti Muul November 16, 2023 (7:35 am)

    Sorry that should read as one sentence and a typo on my part 160 not 120.
    That’s 64% of the birds documented in Seattle – occuring in the park. That’s a big number and that’s a lot of diversity.
    Diversity is a lot higher in green-spaces and forested parks

    • Jethro Marx November 16, 2023 (2:22 pm)

      This is irrelevant to pickleball but if you are purporting to be any kind of scientist you can not expect any of your fellow scientists to take you seriously when you use numbers in this manner.

      Birds are great, so is Lincoln Park. But it is irresponsible to use your relative position of authority as a local wildlife expert to push what appears to be intentionally misleading “statistics.”

      Tell us the rest of the story:
      What percentage of local bird species are seen in the average backyard?
      How about in the greenspace along I-5?
      If 70% of species have been seen at SeaTac airport does that mean birds don’t care about jet noise?

      If you have an actual claim to make then back it up with something more than thinly veiled deceit and hand-waving. I know you are passionate about this sportcourt issue but many neighbors will make the assumptions you are inviting them to make because they trust you as someone who would not deceive them.

      • Erik November 16, 2023 (4:19 pm)

        Agreed. Kersti needs to start posting the actual whole story instead of picking and choosing datapoints to try and make her case look better without giving where she is finding the information for context. Show us the whole story Kersti. Also post your sources for the information you are putting out. What scientific studies and research are you using to back up your claims? If you make an argument that birds will be affected, it needs to be based off of more than just “there will be more noise and human activity in the vicinity and they may not like this”. That doesn’t give any provable evidence that you are correct. 

  • Seattlite November 16, 2023 (7:53 am)

    In my opinion, Seattle’s crime uptick is much more important, at this time, than Lincoln Park’s pickle court controversy.  Seattle’s voters need ask themselves:  How did Seattle get the point of a police officer shortage; crime uptick; criminals who are swiftly released back onto the streets to reoffend?

  • CB November 16, 2023 (8:04 am)

    I will be deeply disappointed if Parks decides to go forward with the pickle ball courts. The noise disruption will be terrible. It’s an ill-advised plan anyway, as the surrounding trees will make the courts wet and full of debris, and there is no way those trees should be removed for the sake of a court. There are plenty of pb courts available outside of Lincoln Park. Is it possible that people could put aside their own desires and share the space with wildlife? 

    • No trees November 16, 2023 (11:05 am)

      No trees are getting removed for this project.

      • mygoodness November 16, 2023 (2:14 pm)

        Until someone falls and hurts themselves from the constant debris and moisture coming from the canopy of heritage trees surrounding the court. If you play pickleball, which I do,  you will know how easy it is to hurt yourself playing it and how old most of the players are. Didn’t people stop playing tennis on these courts twenty years ago for this exact reason? 

        • Jay November 16, 2023 (7:06 pm)

          Those trees are why the tennis courts were shut down. Nothing has changed there. After the courts are installed I suspect there will be a battle over whether or not to keep the trees.

    • anonyme November 16, 2023 (1:42 pm)

      CB, you make excellent points about debris and moisture that should figure prominently in the argument against the pickleball court.  These factors will make for huge maintenance costs by Parks, including almost daily debris removal and the possible use of chemicals for the removal of moss and slimy mildew to prevent slip-and-fall accidents.  By installing this court, Parks has not only jacked up its maintenance requirements and will likely add toxic herbicides to the environment, but increased liability as well.  Overall, an incredibly poor decision – but one that is not too late to reverse.

  • 12th green guy November 16, 2023 (9:50 am)

    I live directly across the tennis courts o g Delridge playfield. The courts were converted to pi c kle ball courts 3 or 4 years ago. What I have not read much about is the noise of the leaf blowers the ballers use to clear the court of leaves and water. I am sure the same will be true ai LP.I guess to their credit at least they use battery powered blowers. Just another source of noise.

    • Barbara November 16, 2023 (1:00 pm)

      I’ve been thinking about the leaf blower noise as well. I played tennis a few times on that site 35 years ago. The court was not maintained then, full of debris, standing water, and slippery moss. So, I also worry the trees could be damaged by not only new construction (I saw where junk was already thrown on live tree limbs during the recent clearing) but also am concerned that parks may start to use moss control chemicals on the courts,  we need every healthy tree we have to help clean the air, land, and to cool the earth.. 

    • Lee P. November 16, 2023 (3:14 pm)

      I can’t imagine people will haul in leaf blowers to clear courts. But if they did: Lincoln Park employees run leaf blowers, sweepers, and mowers daily in the park already.

  • Keenan November 16, 2023 (10:01 am)

    I’m proud of our community making their voices heard on the pickleball issue.   Shame on anyone here mocking participatory government or trying to muddy the waters with whataboutisms.  The parks department is accountable to THE PEOPLE and should not be able to permanently alter one of the last large quiet natural areas in our city with the incessant noise pollution pickleball would bring without the people’s approval.

    I use the park almost every day.  It’s been annoying having half of the meadow area fenced off with that ugly chain link fence. Take it down, abandon this stupid project, and return the site to a quiet storage area once again.  We do NOT want pickleball in Lincoln Park!

    • Jackson K November 16, 2023 (12:16 pm)

      It’s not stupid to me. Let’s play! Then go to Shugs for Shake. 

      • justthinking November 16, 2023 (2:17 pm)

        You are one of the few players (if you do play) that wants courts here.  The majority of pickleball players do not want courts in Lincoln Park, nor is there a lack of available courts in the area for players. Facts. The reason that no one showed up the meeting that is pro-court is because almost nobody is.  

        • WS Res November 16, 2023 (4:38 pm)

          “The majority of pickleball players do not want courts in Lincoln Park” – What’s your source for this claim? 

        • Jackson K November 16, 2023 (5:45 pm)

          My entire team wants this. We will also have a full 32 person draw for montly tournaments. Although there are courts around town, we welcome dedicated courts specifically built for pickleball. 

        • Jackson K November 18, 2023 (8:11 pm)

          Shugs makes great shakes. Facts right back to you! 

  • Fiwa Jcccb November 16, 2023 (10:04 am)

    Interesting that the woman who asked us to sign her anti-pickleball petition as we walked through Lincoln park the other day had a large dog with her. If wildlife protection is the major concern here, wouldn’t banning dogs from the park be a more direct and effective approach? Yes, her dog was leashed. No, her dog wasn’t barking at the time. Were others we saw coming into the park with tennis ball throwing devices planning on keeping their dogs on a leash? Unlikely. Do dogs bark in the park? All the time, and more loudly than any pickleball game I’ve witnessed. Mind you I am NOT suggesting banning dogs from the park, I’m just dismayed that West Seattle is now lousy with Karen. Parks are for everyone, and repurposing old tennis courts for pickleball at minimal taxpayer expense is kind of brilliant.

    • seriously November 16, 2023 (2:21 pm)

      $140,000 is a lot of money when no one was asking for pickleball courts in Lincoln Park. No one.  Also, interesting to note that the bar for the ‘Karen’ slur has dropped dramatically to include environmentalists who walk dogs on leashes and disagree with you.

  • Denise November 16, 2023 (10:09 am)

    The facts regarding the high-impact noise effects of pickleball are well established, and the Parks Department is well aware of them and readily admits that pickleball noise is a problem. And as such, it should be pickleball proponents’ responsibility to address this BEFORE they are allowed to occupy a key space in a prized park. 

    • CARGUY November 16, 2023 (11:45 am)

      I can address this, its not that loud. I live as close to the Delridge courts than anyone will be to the Lincoln Park courts and very rarely hear the pickle ball. It is completely drowned out by the team sports on the playfield next to it, the skate park, and Genesee St. I can only assume then that Lincoln park with much more people visiting the park making noise, sports fields, ferry, Fauntleroy, and the abundance of trees will make it even less noticeable than the Delridge courts I live next to, and walk by every day.

      • Denise November 16, 2023 (1:27 pm)

        WSBPlease consider using photos that show the context of the court location in the surrounding meadow, trails, and tree groves, which are key to understanding this issue. Everyday I run into people in the park who pass by on the bluff trail and are totally astounded when they realize that the fenced-in area by the bluff trail is the same location everyone is talking about for pickleball. Yesterday a woman asked me, “THIS is where the pickleball court is going? Right here by the trail?” She said she had been following the coverage here on the blog all along and did not understand this key point. She thought the court was going in a completely different spot. A lot of people are having this problem. The relationship of the court to the trails and meadow are important for people to understand, because they are key to the main reason so many people are opposed to the pickleball courts in the first place. It is not just about a slab of concrete, it’s about the park itself. 

      • Denise November 16, 2023 (10:11 pm)

        As I said, there is no dispute about the problematic pickleball noise. The only dispute is whether it is fair to subject the current users of the park to it, as well as the wildlife. Pickleball is not more important than either of those two things, let alone both. 

  • kersti muul November 16, 2023 (10:14 am)

    Another point that I brought up in my presentation to the FCA was Parks’ refusal to remove the heavy equipment off the critical route zones of the mature and very large redwood groves. We requested this over 3 weeks ago. A park source Said the superintendent decided not to remove it, to try to ‘use it as a bargaining chip against the opposition’. Whether or not that’s true; The fact remains that Parks refused to move it.Yesterday I sent an action alert out to have folks report it to find it. Fix it.I also brought this up in the meeting yesterday with the parks and they told me in typical parks fashion that there was nothing there. . Being easy to prove, We did just that and he made a phone call in front of us and told whoever he was talking to to get that stuff out of their immediately.And guess what it’s happening right now! 10 AM

    • Neighborly November 16, 2023 (11:17 am)

      Sorry, I’m lost. What are you trying to tell us?

      • Kersti Muul November 16, 2023 (11:28 am)

        Sorry that should say critical root zone not route.Heavy equipment is compacting the delicate and critical root zones of a mature redwood grove, Douglas, fir and grand fir. The heavy equipment is now being removed as we speak

        • Neighborly November 16, 2023 (12:19 pm)

          Ah. But if the project had not been paused in the first place this stuff would have been cleared out anyway. Parks employees had been actively working on it until then.

          • Kersti Muul November 16, 2023 (1:06 pm)

            Actually no, There were no plans to clear it out and parks was outright refusing as they wanted to use it to leverage the opposition. However, they can’t because it’s in violation of 5.8.4 They also did no studies during their pause. Anyway, this stuff is now at camp long

          • Canton November 16, 2023 (3:03 pm)

            How do you know the equipment is now at camp long? 

      • CARGUY November 16, 2023 (11:30 am)

        I think the moral of the story is, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and find-it-fix-it app works!

        • Kersti Muul November 16, 2023 (1:06 pm)

          So does having a meeting with parks and calling them out 

  • Kris November 16, 2023 (11:13 am)

    There are six tennis courts across the street from Lincoln Park. Why can’t three of them be converted to pickle ball courts, leaving Lincoln Park to be more of a peaceful habitat?

  • Kersti Muul November 16, 2023 (11:30 am)

    Here is Parks removing the two ton container this morning from the critical root zone area of the redwood grove, as per our requests 

  • JustSarah November 16, 2023 (12:48 pm)

    Coming back to this quote from Parks:

    “Currently we are still meeting with bird advocates to develop a study on the impact of pickleball.”

    I hope this was just imprecise wording from their side. Obviously if you ask the “bird advocates” who have been protesting this project, the outcome will be stopping the project… because that’s what they want. It would be like asking a five-year-old to consult on whether ice cream is a nutritious dinner.  They should be consulting wildlife biologists, of which there are many in the area. For example, if they’re relying only on Birds Connect Seattle, well, none of their leadership or board members are scientists. They all have backgrounds in activism, arts, or nonprofit management. That’s fine in general, but they should not be consulted for a science-based review here. 

    • Sarah2 November 16, 2023 (2:30 pm)

      Your information is incorrect 🙄 as usual 

      • JustSarah November 16, 2023 (3:09 pm)

        Which part? BCS leadership and board member background? Please correct me if I’m wrong. I actually am a birder. BCS is an advocacy group that is relying on emotion and social pressure to effect change. Compare that to the Washington Ornithological Society or Cornell Lab of Ornithology, both of which do include scientists in their staff and boards and present factual information to back the positions they take on issues. 

    • Jethro Marx November 16, 2023 (2:37 pm)

      I am afraid your rather reasonable assumption that when Parks says “study” it will be a scientific one is unfounded.

    • Bird Advocate November 16, 2023 (2:52 pm)

      This is an absolutely ridiculous argument. Birds Connect Seattle (formerly the Seattle Audubon Society) is a respected nonprofit organization that does incredible work protecting endangered birds. Btw, it doesn’t take a scientist to know that loud noises and bright lights are bad for wildlife. Loud noises and bright lights are incredibly disruptive to most humans too! 

      • JustSarah November 16, 2023 (3:10 pm)

        That’s fine. They’re an advocacy group. We agree. The fact still remains that if a group is trying to block progress of a public works project that complies with our laws, they should have better information to back that up than what has been provided. 

        • cmonnow November 16, 2023 (5:50 pm)

          JustSarah, how about the fact that the project has practically no public support besides you and the other prolific poster, ‘Alki Resident’?  I personally don’t know anyone in West Seattle who wants these courts in Lincoln Park. No one in the pickleball community that I belong to. Just and a few of these anonymous keyboard vigilantes that post over and over again these forums. SIX THOUSAND people have signed a petition not wanting these courts. That is reason enough. https://www.change.org/p/preserve-lincoln-park-s-natural-balance?signed=true. Defying that is against the spirit of the democracy and the role that Supt Diaz was appointed to fill.  Even Parks has admitted that the idea came up in some random breakout room  in one of their virtual meetings. and was not introduced by the public or the pickleball community. I’m still utterly baffled why you care so much when you don’t even play the sport.

          • JustSarah November 16, 2023 (9:22 pm)

            Sorry, are we in the same comment section? I see a ton of support for the courts, or at least opposition to the protests. I’m more in the latter camp; I support the project because it seems like a good use of a derelict space (because that’s what the tennis-courts-turned-storage dump space is), it’s in the area of the park with other active recreation, and it adds an additional activity option for the community.
            The opposition has not brought a compelling case.

  • Walker November 16, 2023 (2:25 pm)

  • Penny November 16, 2023 (5:03 pm)

    Many of the people who want pickleball courts in Lincoln Park have never even been to the park or spent any time walking through the trails and fields, enjoyed the peace and sounds of nature.   How many of the park and committee people have even spent time there? 

    • Jackson K November 16, 2023 (5:52 pm)

      Oh Penny. You are absolutely incorrect. Wildly incorrect. My entire team has been by to see the slab to be used. So many active players I’ve spoken to have all said (after going to the park) this would be a great spot. The courts will be perfectly framed by trees 

    • yes November 16, 2023 (5:55 pm)

      Agree, Penny. I also believe most don’t even want pickleball courts in Lincoln Park perse – they just want to fight the folks they’ve identified as NIMBYs and Karens that don’t want the courts in Lincoln Park. It’s super weird. 

  • Lisa November 16, 2023 (6:32 pm)

    Lincoln Park is a public space, not a country club. If the city wants to put up pickle ball courts, another playground, or whatever that’s their decision. If you don’t want to hear the noise, you may want to move or just simply get used to it. I live near a park where all year round I hear adults cheering on soccer or baseball, kids screaming, and fireworks several times a year. Yes it’s very annoying at times, but t’s what comes with living in an urban area. 

    • Denise November 17, 2023 (7:54 am)

      You are right, the park is a public space, managed by the Parks Department to the goal of providing people with recreation opportunities. But that does not mean anything goes. Lincoln Park is a unique landscape with very special qualities that need to be considered in park planning—it’s basic Recreation Management 101. You don’t put high-impact activities just anywhere. You don’t put the noisiest impact sport—or a dog park— in the middle of a space that is one of the best locations people can enjoy peaceful beauty and low-impact, nature-friendly recreation. Pickleball in this space would displace and disrupt more people than it would serve, to the benefit of a select few and to the expense of everyone else.  And all this is in addition to the negative effect it would have on birds. 

  • Junction Dweller November 16, 2023 (9:14 pm)

  • Zipda November 16, 2023 (9:22 pm)

    Quite the pickle conundrum.

  • flimflam November 16, 2023 (10:39 pm)

    This thread again? Oy vey.

    • TZ November 17, 2023 (10:46 am)

      The hottest topic of 2023.

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