What is truly important?

[Caduceus]

First and foremost.

Cliche etcblahyadaetc

But what is first and foremost important to you?

Is it happiness?

Is it world peace?

Are you happy making a good life for your children even knowing people are dying right now? Over politics, religion, ideals etc?

When does personal conservation turn into conceit and self-righteous waste?

And when does radical-idealism turn into foolishness and reckless behavior?

Is everyone really equal? (Morally, not racially or in terms of sex)

Would you really hold a serial rapist as high as you hold yourself or your children?

Would you have cried as hard at Saddam’s hanging as you would your child’s funeral?

What and who dictates what equality is and what equality isn’t?

If Bush said he is going to nuke every country who does not accept Christianity tomorrow and it was going to happen, would it be wrong to take his life to save all those millions? And if not, why is it wrong to take the life of people who have already murdered? Or is that wrong at all?

Is equality purely situational? Do you have to prove yourself un-equal?

Share This

[mellaw6565]

String cheese – is it string or is it cheese? That’s what I want to know.

Sorry – old comic strip joke about what’s important in life.

Share This

[Caduceus]

:]

Share This

[HunterG]

Connection stems through all things regardless how vast the differences between one circumstance and another may be and how uneven the skew of life is. We all add to one another’s experience, like what physics refers to as a”Butterfly effect”.

When was the last time you felt as if you were a part of something bigger than yourself, that you had a purpose larger than what you could possibly fathom in this lifetime? When was the last time that you believed you already were?

Between the lines of the questions asked is where the revelation is found. Simply asking the question will create the change and spur an action to produce an answer. So thank you.

Share This

[JoB]

HunterG…

really well done…

Caduceus..

i am reeling from the unrelenting pursuit of your questions. You will have to let me ponder. HunterG set the bar pretty high.

Share This

[HunterG]

Not really, I am just a philosophy nut!

Share This

[acemotel]

Caduceus, I started to answer your questions. Something along the line that every person is equal existentially, but since I am not god, the lives of people I am in relation with/to are more valuable, TO ME.

Then, I looked at the title: What is really important? and must ask whether that is also situational?

If we learned of a freak giant asteroid or other object on a direct collision course with the earth were to hit and obliterate the planet in six months, would we have world peace for six months?

Would what’s important NOW be just as important THEN?

Share This

[Caduceus]

Ahh my dear Acemotel, now the web gets tangled!

:]

The closest I’ve come to a conclusion is.

-The willingness to take action.-

Whether it’s for world peace, helping that old lady getting mugged, blowing up that giant asteroid etc. They all need an entity of whom is willing to take action.

But at the same time, how do you keep your personal life intact if you’re running around saving the world? Should we all be expected to perform a “self-sacrifice” and forfeit our personal lives for “the greater good”?

And then you have the questions like

Is it at all productive to regret the past, or have expectations of the future? Wouldn’t that take away your focus from right now, this very second?

A loss of focus causes all types of accidents, that have ever happened. Someone 100% focused does not make the human mistakes in the possible errors of what they’re performing, it is only when one has lost concentration on the task at hand that something goes astray.

For example if someone’s job is to monitor a nuclear reactor and they’re 100% focused on that job but something goes wrong, chances are it’s an error in the general construction of the reactor itself, because we are assuming someone assigned to monitor a nuclear reactor knows what they’re doing. Therefore if they’re vigilant in monitoring it but something goes wrong anyhow it is of no fault to the person monitoring it.

Although if there were an asteroid on a course for Earth you could easily say

Inevitable doom 6 months from now is just as much of a threat now, as it will be then.

So if everything is situational, then everything would also be individual, correct?

And if this is so, let me ask you.

Why take part in segregated, generalized politics?

Why take part in mass organized religion?

Why identify as a “radical” or a “feminist” if you and everyone here are all different?

Because you all have a common denominator?

Well you’re all alive aren’t you?

So why have you, in your life, put another person down? Maybe hurt another person intentionally? Supported a war? Consciously hated someone? etc

If you are willing to recognize as part of something like the Democratic party, why can’t you recognize yourself as a conscious human being, much like people who recognize with the Republican party who are also conscious human beings?

If you can laugh amongst your own party about how wrong and foolish the other party is, then why is it so difficult to just find common ground as living beings of the same species?

And if it is that we are all individual, then how are we equal at all? Apart from general observations?

“Hey I’m alive, and hey! So are you!”

Is a 14 year old boy who is really good at playing his xbox REALLY equal to a 44 year old man that takes time out of his life to go to Africa and build schools in ghettos where drug trafficking, organized crime and rapes are frequent?

No. I’m sorry but no, they are not.

Although given they are not equal, that is not to say it is impossible for that boy to contribute in any way to that man’s life.

So really you have to wonder, is the concept of equality even applicable to us as humans at all?

Seeing how even if we are un-equal, we still rely on each other to progress as a whole.

Share This

[acemotel]

Please hold that thought, my dear Caduceus. Grey matter in use. I’ll be back later tonight.

Share This

[acemotel]

I would posit to you Caduceus that, while intent is relevant to the criminal justice system, in the pragmatic sphere you are concerned with – the so-called real world – *willingness* to act has no consequence except to the well-being of the willing person.

The 14-year old boy on his Xbox may be willing to act but lack resources, or means, or transportation, or even something so banal as permission.

Assuming your premise that some people are more equal than others, I would suggest a threshold of real action, or measurable consequence, as the criterion of value.

However we are still left with the question of morality, or good and evil. Is Mobutu Sese Seko equal to Desmond Tutu? Both challenged the status quo and acted on their beliefs. Is the anti-war protester equal to the skinhead? Why are the actions of a volunteer in Africa more valuable that the actions of, say, a politician running for president, or even – the actions of Lehman Brothers CEO Richard Fuld?

Unraveling that question gets to the core of why people take part in political parties, organized religion, and identification with various -isms.

Short of an asteroid barreling towards earth, how can we transcend our differences to see the commonness we share and bridge the divide between yes and no, the good and the bad, the evil and the sublime?

Share This

[villagegreen]

“If you are willing to recognize as part of something like the Democratic party, why can’t you recognize yourself as a conscious human being, much like people who recognize with the Republican party who are also conscious human beings?”

IMO, reading political postings on a blog gives a very one dimensional aspect of the posters as human beings. Just because someone ‘laughs’ at Republicans online doesn’t mean they are not friends with Republicans in ‘real’ life. I know I have friends who are Republicans and they have many redeeming qualities as human beings. We just choose not to discuss politics around each other. I don’t see belonging to a specific group and also identifying with humanity as a whole as mutually exclusive.

As for what’s ‘truly important,’ I believe that one’s objective in life should be to live their life as they see fit (gaining the most personal happiness) while simultaneously making sure that their decisions and actions do not adversely affect others. I realize that NOT taking action in certain cases can adversely affect others and that is where an individual has to strike a balance between ‘saving the world’ and looking out for themselves.

I don’t begrudge a person who isn’t involved in charities, volunteering, or other forms of social service, but I do have an issue with individuals who don’t consciously think about the consequences that their actions may have on others while blithely doing whatever makes them happy.

The issue of non-action adversely affecting others is where I fail to see how it is conscienable to not vote in this election when you know the very real consequences that are at stake for your fellow humanity. If you believe that McCain is pro war (as you’ve stated in the past), then you must believe that if he is elected more people in the world will die in war than if Obama is elected. All else being equal, I find it unconscienable to not vote at all solely based on some self-satisfied moral high ground that supposedly justifies not voing for the lesser of two evils.

Share This

[JanS]

villagegreen….agreed, and agreed…

Share This

[Zenguy]

This seems like such an easy answer that I have actually taken several days to think about it. I keep coming back to the same thing. My friends and family are the most important to me, everything else can be replaced.

Share This

[Caduceus]

village – I merely chose a topic that is currently easily relatable. I was not refering to the politcal dicussions on these forums specifically, although it is interesting that you bring it up.

My point was (is), if an individual has the capacity to indentify common ground with others, I.E. a specific political stance. Then why do many people make a point to cause negativity on behalf of their party, when they should also have the capacity to indentify with everyone as human beings.

For example how New Resident is commonly treated, or that incident where someone plagerized in hopes to decieve us in order to make a false point. Or the casual usage of “repug” etc.

It doesn’t matter how many friends you have or who those friends are, if you can’t even treat someone with respect simply because their views differ from yours.

And in response to your last statement…

Do you really think the majority of Washington is going to be voting for McCain? And I have zero confidence that my vote will even be counted correctly. Not to mention I’d rather have neither of the current (main) candidates in office.

Obviously there are certain steps I could take to counter these issues of mine, some have to do with being involved with the system iself and others poossiblities are truly outlandish and ludicris. But in the end there is no reason at all for me to vote.

Although we’d have quite an unpleasant few years with McCain, I assure you after his reign we will have few presidents similiar to him. I suppose the term “Blessing in disguise” would be appropriate here.

At first I didn’t take McCain seriously at all, but now that he’s pulled the Palin card he has quite a decent chance of winning.

Now that people who aren’t so enthuisiastic about politics see McCain all over the media; they’ll be easily persuaded to vote either way by word-of-mouth. Similiar to people not going to Aaron’s Bicycle Repair because they heard they might be treated badly.

Politics are foolish and until something happens that convinces me otherwise I’ll have no hand in them.

I suppose my point is, politics certainly are not important.

During the abolition you were able to get a drink if you were willing to find one, you’re able to get high now on any assortment of illegal substances and I’m sure if abortion is made illegal you’ll be able to find a willing practioner somewhere. Politics really don’t impact anyone greatly, who does not want to have a large obstacle obstructing their view of Justice and what is “right”. Even if what they think is right, is sometihng like getting high on meth. There is no law preventing anyone from doing anything, only laws to hopefully dissuade or more likely, punish you if you’re caught. But if it’s a subject worth belittling others over, or a concept you think is entirely necessary or justifiable, in what way is a law or system preventing you? And how are those concepts, systems and topics more important than your fellow human beings?

I guess for an example to put my point into a better perspective…

Why rely on laws to prevent drug abuse when you’re entirely capable of impacting people yourself?

I also hope you reognize this is an example showing my point, this discussion is not necessarily about politics or drug abuse or abortion etc.

My point again, is that politics are not important, and people should not focus on them to the point where their words and their actions create worlds of hurt rather than worlds of good.

I suppose until I find something more overwhelming; the most important thing to me is Harmony.

More and more people are not given the support they need to figure out what is actually important to them, rather they allow people to tell them what is important and what is not.

Mostly this is no fault of theirs, you can’t really help how you are raised.

So I make an effort to support people in finding ways for them to fulfill themselves.

Whether it’s basic confidence issues, or “..Highscdhool’s finished, what now?”.

Share This

[Zenguy]

True, but friends largely depend on how you treat others…you get what you give.

Share This

[JoB]

Cadeceus..

like zenguy i have allowed this to percolate for a few days.. distilling if you like.

at first i intended to give you the point by point long answer.. but in the last few days events have conspired to overburden my time, my abilities and my heart… and what is important to me has been sorely tested.

I find that what is important to me is to wake each morning knowing i did my best the day before to make my life and the lives of those around me better and that today i will do what i can with whatever task comes in front of me…

doing what you can… when you can… for anyone you can… speaking up about what is important to you… to anyone who will listen… that’s what’s important to me.

i will never be able to solve the world’s problems. I won’t be able to solve my own problems.

i can share what clarity i find … offer what wisdom life’s lessons have taught me when asked… and lend a helping hand whenever possible.

and yes.. you will find that reflected in my politics.

such a small goal .. and yet so hard to achieve some days.

Share This

[JenV]

your argument that “during abolition you could get a drink” and “if abortion were made illegal you could get one somewhere” is sad, and sadly, shows your age, Cad. Our personal freedoms are the most important thing, and when people stop believing that, there is no hope. When you give up, you give up living. You don’t probably know, being a male, about the struggle women had to find access to abortion in times of need when it was illegal. Women dying in back alleys from coat hanger abortions. But hey, we can always go back to that, right? And while we’re at it, why not just give up all our rights, hell, we’ll be able to procure anything on the black market, right?

The most important thing is freedom, and we’ve been giving it away like candy. It’s time to take it back – and people who choose not to vote, like you- are nothing but willing helpers in our eventual downfall.

Share This

[JoB]

without freedom, there are no options.

Share This

[Caduceus]

I’m not entirely sure why you would assume you would have to revert to coat hangers Jen, but all the Medical Practitioners who are certified to perform abortions that I’ve talked to (which has been quite a few, surprisingly) said even if it were made illegal the well being of their patients is far more important and they would perform the abortion anyways without a second thought. Or something to that extent (obviously they all didn’t say the same thing word for word)

And there are plenty of abortions in medcinal forms, for early early pregnancies.

I’m not sure if you actually read what I had to say, or if you even read what you quoted me saying.

But how exactly is indentifying that your individual need and happiness is superior to any mand made law giving up freedom? I’m certain it’s quite the opposite; recognizing freedom.

I don’t mean to be so abbrasive but if you’re going to bring up “political discussions”, you could atleast not make over-generalized statements in order to attempt to prove me wrong. Especially when it’s because you assume I’m naive given my age. At least that’s the impression you’re leaving.

Again this isn’t a discussion about abortion or anything like that but to clarify, even if abortions were made illegal it would NOT be difficult to find a practitioner or consultants to find medicinal or proper surgical abortions. And saying otherwise is absurd. Practitioners care about their patients, and bettering the lives of others, especially young people who have foolishly got themselves stuck between a rock and a hardplace. And to say they would give up on those people because of a silly law is ridiculous.

If anyone is giving up their freedom, it’s people who abide by laws that prevent them from being happy.

“I find that what is important to me is to wake each morning knowing i did my best the day before to make my life and the lives of those around me better and that today i will do what i can with whatever task comes in front of me…

doing what you can… when you can… for anyone you can… speaking up about what is important to you… to anyone who will listen… that’s what’s important to me.” –This comes before everything, before laws, before politics, before discussion about aboriton etc

Everything else is null before the pursuit of happiness, especially politics.

Again I do not mean to be so abrasive in this post, but your blunt views on medical practitioners is offensive to those of us who have actually asked them why they do what they do, and your post was an insult to Doctors who are Doctors to help people rather than to just make a lot of money.

Share This

[acemotel]

if you think the political landscape does not affect your life, it says a few things about you. You have not lived in a third-world country, you are very young, and you are not a minority. You are male, and you believe the mythology of capitalist society. Not criticisms, only observations. Keep your message #14 above and read it in about 30 years. You will chuckle, guaranteed.

Share This

[Caduceus]

Ace – I just wrote a novel in repsonse to that, but decided otherwise.

So I’ll leave you with this, instead of a bunch of angry paragraphs.

Read this thread through again, you have read everything wrong.

edit: Also, do not put words in my mouth, or attempt to take what I say at face value without actually putting any effort into figuring out what I mean.

Share This

[JoB]

Caducues…

I don’t know where you are getting your information, but it isn’t accurate.

It’s all well and good that people will say now that they would still do abortions should they become illegal… but the reality is likely to be much different when they are faced with penalties.

there were lot of docs back then who performed D&Cs for some patients… but when given a choice between going to jail because someone in their office told the wrong person …. and not doing abortions, most gave up the abortions.

they were sorry.. they felt bad.. but they had families.

when abortions were illegal, most that were performed by skilled medical practitioners weren’t

performed in doctor’s offices under ideal conditions… and if something went wrong the girl was on her own.

A very good friend of mine from a good family who had a medical practitioner perform her abortion at substantial cost… bled to death. We got her to the emergency room… but it was too late.

the police wanted to know who had done the abortion so they could prosecute for murder. We told them we didn’t know.

Had she lived, they would have prosecuted her.

and she was one of the “lucky” ones.

as for the rest.. well there’s always the hanger.

And for most, it was the hanger.

I don’t think you are naive because you are young.

I think you are just talking about something you know little about… with the confidence of the young that what they have can’t be taken from them.

I can understand that you have grown up in our society with it’s current freedoms and “guarantees” …. but having started life with them doesn’t mean you will get to keep them.

That will take effort.

you could start by voting in this coming election against those who would destroy your freedom .. choice doesn’t mean much when someone else decides what’s best for you.

sorry if you think me rude. but i am not into revisionist history…

Share This

[Anonymous]

“your argument that “during abolition you could get a drink” and “if abortion were made illegal you could get one somewhere” is sad, and sadly, shows your age, Cad.” – JenV

“if you think the political landscape does not affect your life, it says a few things about you. You have not lived in a third-world country, you are very young, and you are not a minority.” – acemotel

“I don’t know where you are getting your information, but it isn’t accurate.” – JoB

“I think you are just talking about something you know little about… with the confidence of the young that what they have can’t be taken from them.” – JoB

I love this thread in that almost every post illustrates exactly what Cad is trying to understand. Why do people feel it necessary to put others down (regardless of the degree in which it is done) rather than explain a position further, or more eloquently.

One thing that is so, extremely prevalent on this forum (that I’ve come to noticed and it seems Cad is realizing now) is the constant negativity and insulting (even if just to a posters argument, age, status or view) when an alternate opinion is shared. Why does this happen? Not everyone is the same (thank God) and that is what makes life interesting.

I start to wonder, however, after reading through this forum, if what is interesting about all our differences is the opportunity it provides some to belittle, degrade and snub others.

Share This

[JenV]

like you just did, you mean?

Share This

[Anonymous]

Well, JenV, I assume that if I had said anything insulting or degrading in my post, you would have quoted it back to me, which you didn’t.

That leaves me to believe that you are just uncomfortable that I pointed out that something you said was reflective of the very thing that Cad is questioning.

I find it sad that in a thread where a member is simply asking WHY people resort to those kinds of tactics (insults, put downs, etc.), that very behavior continues.

I think it is a legitimate question.

Share This

[Author]

Posts