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April 8, 2014 at 3:55 pm #805714
retired60ParticipantWhat’s really sad about the Repubs. that are against the ACA … is that many that are against it … applied for it. They just hate this President and will say whatever neg. thing they can to show their displeasure with him because of who and what he is … a Black President
April 8, 2014 at 4:07 pm #805715
retired60ParticipantThe ACA is picking up steam and costing less with each and every day. So what is the Big Deal ???? The wealthy will not make larger profits from this Program and they know it .. and we don’t care. We need Affordable Healthcare and have needed it forever.
April 9, 2014 at 5:20 pm #805716
HMC RichParticipantDobro.
Executive Orders are an option that the President can use and have been set by precedent since George Washington, but I believe the term Executive Order is not in the Constitution either but has been employed since George Washington. You saw Jan’s list.
When President’s use executive orders to change certain monetary/tax policies they are infringing on the Separation of Powers outlined in the Constitution in Articles I, II, and III.
We know Executive Orders can be illegal because one of President Clinton’s Executive Orders was overturned by the United States Court of Appeals of the District of Columbia.
Even last week President Obama wrote an executive order regarding Federal Contracts and Sharing wage information in an attempt to achieve through executive fiat what he cannot achieve through legislation.
The Chief Law Officer of the land is the President. He took a vow to uphold the Constitution. When he changes laws with an Executive Order that he doesn’t like, he is acting illegally and not in the accordance with the Law of the Land.
But we conservatives already knew he did not respect the Constitution already. Hopefully more of you realize that the Separation of Powers is there to protect US regardless of party affiliation.
Also, if any President goes beyond the boundaries set by the Constitution, then their executive orders should be challenged and overturned according to the law. Whether it was Bush I and II or Obama and Clinton.
This is not new. Other Presidents have used and abused Executive Orders. Truman tried to take over the Steel Industry. Because of that, this item is relevant to how Executive Orders should be put forth….
Justice Robert Jackson’s famous framework of analysis is as follows: The President’s authority (to act or issue an executive order) is at its apex when his action is based on an express grant of power in the Constitution, in a statute, or both. His action is the most questionable when there is no grant of constitutional authority to him (express or inherent) and his action is contrary to a statute or provision of the Constitution.
The Constitution comes first!
April 9, 2014 at 5:39 pm #805717
HMC RichParticipantRetired 60. You obviously are trying to accuse every Republican of being racist with your second to last post. You obviouusly do not understand that most Republicans believe in individual rights. We do not want to look at people as groups but as individuals.
I know there is intolerance exhibited by all segments of society.
You are prejudiced against Republicans. Have you ever said anything nice about a Republican?
Take Gay Marriage. Many of the people I vote with do not agree that two people of the same sex should be allowed to Marry. I disagree with them. So NOT ALL Republicans can be Homophobes.
But it is their RIGHT to not agree with that line of thought.
For Example. The former Short Term CEO of Mozilla, Mr, Eich, was ostracized because he had the audacity (legal right in normal viewpoints) to give a contribution to a pro-marriage group. He had kept his personal feelings out of his work arena. But some activists could not tolerate any separate or different opinions. He resigned due to pressure brought about by the intolerance of the opposing line of thought. For something he did that was legal.
You see I have a gripe with these type of activists. They want disclosure of who contributes to certain causes so that they can hound and protest them at their private residences and places of work. That is as bad as the nuts at the Westboro Church.
We should all be able to have opinions. We can disagree with them but to ruin another persons career because they did something legally is wrong.
To paint the broad stroke of racism over a whole voting block is wrong.
I have made the mistake of being too general in my arguments in the past and since I promote individualism, I should not do that either.
But I will disagree with you, as an individual, that your accusation is not justified.
But still I would buy you a coffee, beer, or soda.
April 9, 2014 at 6:53 pm #805718
dobroParticipant“We know Executive Orders can be illegal because one of President Clinton’s Executive Orders was overturned by the United States Court of Appeals of the District of Columbia.”
I don’t believe any of Prez Obama’s orders have been declared to be illegal. If so, please point that out. If not, your opinion (that Obama does not respect the Constitution) is backed up by zero facts.
“…if any President goes beyond the boundaries set by the Constitution, then their executive orders should be challenged and overturned according to the law.”
So what exactly is stopping conservatives from doing so? (hint:nothing, except they know they won’t be overturned and they’d rather complain than act and have their arguments nullified)
April 9, 2014 at 8:08 pm #805719
JanSParticipantsometimes during my day I read things and I just chuckle and shake my head…:-
April 9, 2014 at 10:17 pm #805720
HMC RichParticipantI was just reacting to post 9.
Mr. Obama lost on the “recess appointments” in appointing judges. Guess not following the law doesn’t work when challenged.
I pointed out the separation of powers and that executive orders are not written into it, but the rules of engagement so to speak are coupled with legal decisions.
But, I guess partisanship is more important than the rule of law. I am actually bringing this up to help all of us.
You can think I am silly but if I am right, well, hopefully it won’t hurt you and your family and friends.
But if you get fined by the IRS for not having healthcare (if it doesn’t keep getting delayed) then do not come crying to me.
Of course that will probably never happen because they will not want to fine the people who vote them in. So the country will go deeper in debt. Tell me why this is a good idea?
And tell me this. The wrong but widely used 40 million people who did not have health care caused the genesis of the ACA for the President. They have Spent I believe 750 Million. Ummm with 7 Million signed up to the program, I gotta say, that is a lot of money being spent on the worst program rollout in recent history.
Dobro, show me the legality of the extensions for the employer mandate and the delays in the ACA? I will be interested in hearing what you have to say.
April 9, 2014 at 10:50 pm #805721
JanSParticipantPRES. Obama loses every time because the sole purpose of the GOP, both House and Senate is to , as you said, “We can disagree with them but to ruin another persons career because they did something legally is wrong.” They believe him wrong about everything, and set out from day one to ruin his career ! I believe that’s what dear Mr. McConnell said in so many words, isn’t it?
April 9, 2014 at 10:58 pm #805722
LindseyParticipantOh good grief.
I’ll show you the legality of the extensions. I’m surprised that you don’t already know this because you magically know the exact number of uninsured Americans in 2010.
The answer you are interested in hearing is the Administrative Procedures Act of 1946. Through a delegation of his authority, the President makes an agency (HHS) responsible for implementing the law. Proposed rules are listed in the federal register for public review and comment before final regulations are announced. Like this:
Also, in your last comment, you forgot about the 3 million people covered by the Medicare expansion.
April 10, 2014 at 12:08 am #805723
JanSParticipantLindsey, thanks for that. Yes, I am 67, on Medicare for over 2 years now, with a Medicaid back-up. It’s extremely efficient. A shame everyone can’t get covered by a Medicare-like plan.
April 10, 2014 at 2:02 am #805724
dobroParticipant“Mr. Obama lost on the “recess appointments” in appointing judges.”
Uhh…actually, no. The recess appointments that were challenged were officials for the Labor board, not judges. And the case is being appealed to the Supreme Court, so legality is still in question.A ruling is expected by June.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/13/supreme-court-recess-appointment_n_4587935.html
“Dobro, show me the legality of the extensions for the employer mandate and the delays in the ACA? I will be interested in hearing what you have to say.”
Lindsey gives some good info on that in post 59.Related to the separation of powers that you enjoy posting about please note that the legislature passes laws and the executive branch executes those laws. The executive has some amount of leeway in how to enact and operate the laws the legislature passes. If the cons don’t like the way Obama executes the laws they have several options to challenge such. If all they do is gripe about it, I would tend to believe they would rather use their complaints to raise money from their low-info base voters than to make the effort to enforce their “principles”.
April 10, 2014 at 4:30 am #805725
HMC RichParticipantLindsay. I don’t know all of the answers and I was wondering if someone would point to HHS.
Most of the Executive Orders fall within the parameters of the Office of the President. I am all for Chemical Safety requirements and certain actions taken against the Ukraine or enemies of. Most of the Executive Orders that he and others make have validity.
President Obama’s state of the union pledge to “act with or without Congress” marks a milestone in presidential usurpation of Congressional authority. He said it. Should I not believe him?
If Executive Orders do not have basis regarding the Constitution, then they should be challenged within the legal system of our government. Those challenges can take some time to be decided.
JanS, as you know Medicare is working for many people. It has been around long enough and if they don’t tamper with it too much it should continue to work. No problem there. I don’t want it to fail. Do you believe myself and others want it to fail?
We don’t like Mr. Obama because we disagree with his political philosophy and his big government agenda. As the leader of our Foreign Policy we see failure. His Stewardship of the Economy has been not as robust as was touted. His record on helping less fortunate people and women is lacking. Why should I support policies I disagree with? You probably didn’t support most of the Republican policies. I have no argument with that. We just disagree. There is not an amendment that says the Congress has to do very much. The framers made it that way.
And with the National Debt due to both parties at 17 Trillion, I think they are spending enough.
Although I was expecting someone else to answer, I am fine with others chiming in.
April 10, 2014 at 4:36 am #805726
HMC RichParticipantDobro, both parties want to raise money for power than follow the laws of the land. Why do you think the Republican Establishment is fighting so hard against the Conservative Branch?
They, Left and Right, have their own laws and do not live by ours. I do not trust either side of the aisle. I do not believe we should give up more of our Liberty locally to the Federal Government. I much prefer local and state governance than federal but that is me.
April 10, 2014 at 8:53 am #805727
JanSParticipantRich…if congress (esp. Repubs) would actually do the job they’re paid for (instead of things like voting 50+ times to get rid of the ACA), then maybe, just maybe things would be different. John Boehner, and his friends would rather not, and have demonstrated, that they will under no circumstances work with the President. It goes both ways, don’t you think? If I was Obama , I’d be sick of it, too !
And, yes, Rich, I believe others simply want to get rid of it…Paul Ryan leading the group.
April 10, 2014 at 3:35 pm #805728
JoBParticipantHMCRich..
not to make too fine a point on it…
but wouldn’t you expect a constitutional lawyer to have a fairly decent grasp of the constitution?
i would.
April 10, 2014 at 3:37 pm #805729
JoBParticipantHMC Rich..
opinions are like __________ .. everyone’s got one.
and i would fight to the death to defend their right to have an opinion.
however.. when they try to enforce their opinion on the rest of us…
you can’t claim the high ground of a minority opinion when the majority of Republicans go along with the program…
April 10, 2014 at 3:42 pm #805730
JoBParticipantHMCRich..
those recess appointments that you toss off as a political win wouldn’t have been necessary if the Republicans in Congress had been doing their job…
one of which is to appoint judges to vacancies.
While you are counting political coup our courtrooms are backing up with cases that can’t be heard because of a scarcity of federal judges.
if i was you … i wouldn’t be so quick to count the political capital of obstructionism
April 12, 2014 at 5:03 am #805731
HMC RichParticipantYour partisanslip is showing. The point is he did it illegally.
He didn’t play the game JoB. HE GOT CAUGHT.
Why is it Liberals want to make rules but not follow them unless it suits them?
Enter Harry Reid. He didn’t like the Filibuster Threat posed by the Republicans over Judicial nominees. So he took the nuclear option. You will rue the day when the Republicans gain power again and pile on what he has done. This article explains where there was delays and where there weren’t. http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/11/21/do-obama-nominees-face-stiffer-senate-opposition/
Politifact had an article that came to about the same conclusion. For certain Nominations there wasn’t a big difference between the last four President’s. For other nominees there was delay. The question is, how was the Senate partitioned between Democrats and Republicans? I bet that made a difference. But the Democrats threw a tantrum. Typical.
The philosophy that you espouse is “doing their jobs” to suit your way of thinking.
I do not feel that way.
Did Barney Frank and his ilk do their job when they were warned over and over about the coming financial/housing crisis? No. They could have done something but did not. Oh, McCain and others are guilty too.
Did almost all of congress do their job and read the whole ACA before it was ramrodded through? “You have to vote for it before you read it!” Guess not!!
Some Republicans are doing their job in my opinion even if you disagree with it. They are trying to stop more of a big government power grab being imposed on us. The problem is for now you have the Presidency and the Senate.
If the Democrats and Republicans could agree on decent common sense bills, I am certain they would “do their job” and vote for bills. While you seem to think I am far right, I look at you as far left. Pretty hard to find common ground.
Sebelius resigned. It’s about time. She was the face of one of the worst implementation of a new program that I have seen. No Partisanship on that either. Only happened because you had the House and Senate. So why in Heaven’s name should we support a program that we had no say in?
Holder should go next. Maybe that will help the Dems in the midterms.
April 12, 2014 at 10:34 am #805732
JanSParticipantRich…”Your partisanship is showing”….so is yours …
April 12, 2014 at 10:41 am #805733
JanSParticipantRich, I wish you would talk about the awful things that the Repubs have done…no unemployment extensions…no jobs bills that would pass intelligent people…the vote against the Paycheck fairness bill….the dastardly awful “Ryan Budget the GOP House passed this week, that eviscerates Medicare, education, attacks the ACA once again…and on and on…no…you harp time after time on Obama acting illegally. You need to get a grip, I’m afraid. The GOP House is ruining this country for everyone except the ultra-rich. Open your eyes !
April 12, 2014 at 2:15 pm #805734
JoBParticipantHMCRich
the partisanship in our judicial system is showing in the very narrow definition of recess that was applied.
as is yours for ignoring the circumstances that made presidential appointments during the recess the only option for filling federal vacancies on the bench
the truth isn’t so much that President Obama got caught doing what presidents before him have done but that the court let the obstructionists within the US House of Representatives get away with the pretense of keeping the house in session.
All form and no function.
tell me Rich.. is this really the government that you envisioned for yourself when you voted for those clowns?
April 12, 2014 at 3:39 pm #805735
waynsterParticipantWait the GOP did manage to get this in the budget so they could get their egos through the door…….lmao
April 12, 2014 at 6:27 pm #805736
JanSParticipantand now there’s a movement afoot to raise Congress’ pay, because they’re so damned underpaid…..give me an effing break !
April 12, 2014 at 8:06 pm #805737
miwsParticipantApril 13, 2014 at 1:59 am #805738
retired60ParticipantRich .. it is so sad when all we can do is speak of the President doing illegal things, when each time nothing is proved .. and not see the abuse that Repubs. have used to disrespect this President. All President Obama has done since being in office is try to bring us all together, and help the less fortunate .. which is a growing group these days. Those that used to be Middleclass are now the less fortunate or an illness, loss of a job, or near retirement away from being poor. Repubs. need to stop listening to FOX NEWS and listen to other forms of News for the truth. rich said that I was biased .. yes to a point .. I’m Black and along w my son, daughter and wife are well educated and Blessed to have had good jobs … both wife and I are retired, children still work. I gave this info. to let you know something about me. In all my life ..I’ve met very few Repubs. that care about me or the minority / people of color. How can I support their views .. when all they do is put us down and call us lazy and thugs…. To see them treat the President of the USA the way they have makes me very sad … to see and hear Educated people of Gov. and citizens speak with such ignorance and hate. This started before he had a chance to do anything for the country. Hate was set in place toward him when he ran for and won the office, not because of what he had done .. but because of who he was … A Black man making History ( The First Black President/and for 2 terms) He will go down in History as One of our Best Presidents ever… and Repubs. can’t do anything about it. You can put Reagans name on every mail box in America .. and he will never be great.
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