Home › Forums › West Seattle Rants & Raves › Seattle Police Speed Trap
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February 15, 2009 at 11:18 pm #657665
rickygeeMemberDear westseattledood, please spare me your snarky self-righteousness. I really don’t see a point to you and I having a conversation about this issue since I just wanted to rant and you just want to be right. And don’t lecture me on what I should do, didn’t do, or the meaninglessness of my actions. All hail our mighty overlords and their enabling minions. We are all safe now.
February 15, 2009 at 11:32 pm #657666
rickygeeMemberPS:
“They made 50 traffic stops, which resulted in 88 traffic citations being issued.”
Not one warning among them. Imagine that. Just citations. Quite the money maker it would seem. Which I believe WAS part of my initial rant.
February 15, 2009 at 11:51 pm #657667
alki_2008ParticipantI’ll throw in my 2 cents.
I don’t like speed traps because they don’t seem to be targeting “aggressive” or “dangerous” drivers. In a 30-mph zone…I’d rather see the police ticket someone that’s cutting people off or tailgating while driving 30-mph, rather than ticket someone that’s going 36-mph and not doing any of those ‘aggressive/dangerous’ things.
February 15, 2009 at 11:54 pm #657668
inactiveMemberrickygee –
Edited: This is about public safety where kids hang. Speeding cars around kids is not conducive to public safety. Yeah, they made money because there are a lot of people being idiots. If you can’t address the fact that your behavior explicitly encouraged aggressive driving behavior, there’ll be no conversation because of that. Not because you say so or I opt to spare you further any of my snarky self-righteousness.
February 15, 2009 at 11:58 pm #657669
inactiveMemberAlki_2008 –
For all we know, there could have been citations for tailgating and warnings given; they might not have published it in the newsletter. Lots of tailgating going on there always, like every other arterial.
February 16, 2009 at 12:18 am #657670
alki_2008Participantwsd – yes, I’m all for those types of tickets (dangerous/aggressive)…but the speed traps seem to issue a lot of tickets to folks that are only marginally ‘speeding’. Safe/attentive driving at only a few miles over the speed limit (ie, 36 in a 30) seems more like a revenue generator, and those are the types of tickets that leave a sour impression of speed traps. Seems that if they focused ONLY on dangerous/aggressive drivers, then they could have 1 car at a location and then have the resources to staff multiple locations and really be keeping us “safer”.
February 16, 2009 at 12:24 am #657671
inactiveMemberSince none of us know the actual numbers/stats for the recent “event”, I’ve asked WSB to see if they are willing to make official inquiries. Then we’ll see what we can see from that, eh?
’nuff for now.
February 16, 2009 at 1:30 am #657672
AnonymousInactiveWhen I’ve seen the Chargers, they’re all lined up in a row at the very bottom of Highland Park Way. There’s a business entrance (out of sight) just around the last corner down by Marginal way. No kids. Not even any houses.
I know they’re there. I drive in second and ride my brakes. It’s still extremely difficult to keep it to 30 at that point. Kind of thinking that does qualify as a speed trap, but maybe there are a lot of accidents at that intersection.
I’d personally rather see them them on I-35.
February 16, 2009 at 2:07 am #657673
JoBParticipantWhat constitutes a speed trap?
that term used to refer to a small town on a two lane hiway that required traffic on the hiway to slow to a crawl so that they could collect traffic ticket dollars…
now it seems that if there is more than one police car monitoring speeding in an area.. it is referred to as a speed trap…
How unfair of them to lower the odds that you can speed through without getting caught.
i suppose the difference between thinking that enforcing the speed limit constitutes a speed trap is whether you habitually speed in the area or you are habitually impacted by speeders…
my guess is that those who are impacted by the speeders don’t look at active enforcement as a trap…
February 16, 2009 at 2:45 am #657674
BarbGMemberJoB, I’m not sure, but I think that I actually agree with you.
February 16, 2009 at 2:52 am #657675
alki_2008ParticipantJoB, this part of the wikipedia entry you linked is what I consider a “speed trap”: In many of these uses, the term speed trap connotes speed limit enforcement for purposes of ticket revenue or traffic deterrence instead of safety.
I don’t care how many cars are sitting there, whether it’s 1 or 5. If they’re sitting there waiting for anyone to come by a few miles over the limit, rather than targeting folks that are really driving ‘fast’ or agressively or dangerously…then that’s what I’m opposed to.
February 16, 2009 at 3:01 am #657676
BarbGMemberalki_2008, just an fyi for you, anything over the speed limit is “fast”, and can actually be considered aggressive or dangerous, that is why speed limits are made. So if you are opposed to getting pulled over then slow down.
February 16, 2009 at 6:28 am #657677
Synergy3kMemberWhat I find funny is the backs of the chargers. The one that’s parked in front of my house every other morning on 35th has a “baby on board” sticker on it’s rear bumper. He’s usually parked there when I come back from my AM coffee run. It’s sort of funny to hear the engine gunning when he’s caught another one…a nice view from my front window so long as he’s not coming after me!
February 16, 2009 at 5:06 pm #657678
JoBParticipantalki-2008…
what i take issue with is the idea that the intention behind speed limit enforcement in an area is to generate revenue…
though i have to admit i kind of like the idea of speeders subsidizing the officer who shows up when i am burgled…
or traffic deterrence …
which i appreciate when they target the side streets that become freeways during rush hour…
Could it be they are simply responding to complaints from those who actually live in the area and have to play russian roulette to pull out of their side street or driveway?
Traveling 5 to 10 miles over the speed limit may be safe on a freeway or a limited access arterial… but those are never posted at 30mph.
When you hit a pedestrian or someone on a bike or a car pulling out of a side street or drive.. those “few” miles per hour can be the difference between injury and death for the person you hit.
Posted speed limits are supposed to be the safest maximum speed to allow reaction time for the unexpected on the road you are driving.
sure.. you can get by going faster nearly every time.. but when the unexpected happens.. you are likely to be glad you were driving slowly enough to avoid killing someone.
February 16, 2009 at 10:41 pm #657679
RainyDay1235MemberSide note: Something I see on the Eastside often (and very rarely on the Westside) are “crosswalk traps”. They even have a “pedestrian” stand on the corner and cross every time with a motorcyle cop hiding behind the utiltiy pole (or whatever). Love to see MORE of that, given the resources…
February 16, 2009 at 10:46 pm #657680
IslandLvrMemberThanks for the reminder to slow down =)
February 17, 2009 at 1:19 am #657681
StringCheeseParticipantI live at the top of Highland Park Way and take the hill multiple times a day. For those of you who take this hill, you will know that it is virtually impossible to go 30 down this extremely long, very steep hill. It takes less than 4 seconds to go from 30 to 50 down this hill – WITHOUT ever pressing the gas and only slightly longer when braking.
In driver’s ed I was taught to check you speedometer every 20-30 seconds. You clearly can’t be looking at your speedometer all of the time or else you would be a VERY dangerous driver indeed.
It takes 4 seconds and 45 does not “feel” fast. You simply don’t realize. Take your eyes off of the speedometer to look for traffic coming off of SW Othello and you’re cooked.
I have children who play at the park at the top of the hill. I walk that hill during bad storms to clear the drains. I have not received a speeding ticket in my 20 years of driving (you do the math there) and I have been ticketed twice in the past six months. Aggressive? No. Inconsiderate? No. Dangerous? No. Angry about targeting people on a steep-arse hill? You betcha.
So, now I stare at my speedometer on the hill and I feel a much worse driver for it.
February 17, 2009 at 2:21 am #657682
alki_2008ParticipantBarbG – Thanks for the FYI to define the word fast to me. FYI to you, I put quotes around the word ‘fast’ because (in my opinion) it’s a subjective decision of what is ‘fast’ or ‘slow’. To me…”speeding” is over the limit, “fast” is what ‘seems’ fast considering the conditions and environment. For example, driving the speed limit (whatever it is) when the roads are slick or icy is “fast” – but not “speeding”.
JoB – my issue with the hard-and-fast speed limits is partially reflected by what stringcheese mentioned. The Admiral Hill has a speed limit of 30mph, and it only takes a few seconds with your foot off the brake to get over 30mph. There isn’t much chance of someone darting into the street (on west, downhill side) and so I don’t see why 30mph is necessary…it seems that 35-40mph, which is what I usually drive, is safe enough.
And accidents…it’s not always about the speed. There are some cases where drivers/walkers/bikers are not as careful as they could be. This isn’t always the case, but it does happen. Personally, my car was sent into a spin when I was driving on a busy street (~50mph, not over the limit) and someone darted out from in front of a parked minivan to run across the street. I had to swerve to avoid hitting him and almost went off the road myself. Guess that would be my fault because I’m in the car…even if I’m not “speeding”?
One of the things that gets to me is the notion that any driver going over the speed limit is more dangerous than someone driving at/below the speed limit. How about the drivers that back out of their driveways into oncoming traffic without looking, or nose out of driveways so the nose of their car is halfway into the lane of oncoming traffic and then just sit there…as though the oncoming traffic can actually get past them. I guess if they’re driving below the speed limit, then there’s nothing ‘aggressive’ or ‘dangerous’ about the way they’re driving? And crosswalks, there are plenty of people driving under the speed limit that almost hit people that are trying to cross the street (with the light). How about targeting those types of drivers, rather than nailing every person that’s slightly over the speed limit?
February 17, 2009 at 2:40 am #657683
inactiveMemberThe Seattle Municipal Code makes it clear when speed is to be reduced.
It’s all about the grade of a Hill and a curve in the road. Have a look see.
And keep in mind:
If folks want to fight their tickets, they can request hearings.
If folks want to fight the Muni Code, well, rots of ruck on that. But. People are always free to try.
B. The driver of every vehicle shall, consistent with the requirements of this section,
drive at an appropriate reduced speed when
approaching and crossing an intersection or railway grade crossing,
when approaching and going around a curve,
when approaching a hill crest,
when traveling upon any narrow or winding roadway,
and when special hazard exists with respect to pedestrians or other traffic or by reason of weather or roadway conditions. (RCW 46.61.400(1) and (3))
(Ord. 108200 Section 2(11.52.020), 1979.)
February 17, 2009 at 2:47 am #657684
BarbGMemberalki, you make sure that if you get pulled over for going to fast, or speeding, whatever you want to call it, then you use that logic when talking to the copy. “I wasn’t going to fast for the conditions therefore I wasn’t speeding”
February 17, 2009 at 3:01 am #657685
alki_2008ParticipantBarbG – I guess my point didn’t get through. When I first said ‘fast’ (which you then defined for me)…then I meant that cops should be targeting people that are driving “fast” and not just people that are slightly over the limit (ie, “speeding”). However, it seems that cops in ‘speed traps’ are spending their time ticketing anyone even slightly over the limit and giving them “speeding tickets”…while the emphasis should be on people that are dangerous/aggressive, no matter if they’re over or under the speed limit.
Nowhere did I say that people should argue their tickets and try to get out of a ‘speeding’ ticket. If a cop tries to write me a ticket for driving ‘fast’, then I will certainly argue it with him/her though (note, that statement included sarcasm)…thanks for, again, telling me what I should do.
February 17, 2009 at 5:43 am #657686
datamuseParticipantI dunno, StringCheese. I’ve lived at the top of that hill for over 10 years. For the past three and a half I’ve driven it every workday. It’s just not that hard to keep your speed down to 30. When I drove a pickup truck I just put it low gear; lots of automatics have this feature. My current car has a CVT, but it’s also got an engine-braking setting, so I just put that on and tap the brakes every so often.
That way, I can reserve my attention for the tailgaters who like to follow me down the hill, just as though there weren’t a perfectly clear passing lane to their left.
February 17, 2009 at 5:45 am #657687
JanSParticipantactually, regarding the Admiral Hill from about 37th SW down to the entrance to the bridge….the speed limit on that hill up until just a few years ago WAS 35MPH. And one day, those signs were gone, and it was 30…no idea who decided…but the signs went up in the middle of the night. And for those used to 35Mph, it took some getting used to.
February 17, 2009 at 6:11 am #657688
JoBParticipantalki_2008
i too have had to work hard to control my vehicle after a pedestrian darted into the street in front of me and i had to brake too quickly…
but every time, my first thought upon finding out we were all ok has been… thank god i didn’t hit them.
When you slow down you increase your chances to be thankful when the unexpected happens…
February 17, 2009 at 2:26 pm #657689
cruiserMemberRandom thought for the day….Speed Limit…hmmm….LIMIT….hmmm….not TARGET….as you were so
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