Seattle Mayor aiding Followers of Sharia Law to get Home Loans in Seattle.

[mrseattle]

This is SO Unbelievable..! I cannot believe it..!

Mayor Ed Murray is using the City of Seattle’s resources to Aid the Followers of Sharia Law in obtaining Home Loans In Seattle.

The same group that believes that being GAY is illegal and punishable by DEATH !

Let me Clarify.. This IS NOT an attempt to aid a certain underprivileged race of people or particular nationality that might have some followers of Sharia Law within the group.

NO… This is an attempt to aid the particular Followers of the EVIL Sharia Law which the followers of cannot pay interest on a Loan. It is against the teachings of the Honorable Prophet Muhamad.

I wrote the mayor’s office for some clarification of this and was STUNNED to have received a letter from his assistant confirming that i was ” correct ” but that there was no direct financial aid but that the city was using its influence and employee time to ask local lenders to figure out a loan system that the followers can participate in without any chance of any of the participants being Executed.

So the City of Seattle is aiding a group of people that Openly admit that the crime of being Gay is punishable by DEATH not to mention the fact that women are considered property.

If a woman is even accused of Adultery under Sharia Law she is Guilty until proven Innocent and if she can’t find her own 5 male witnesses she is Stoned to Death. Very Nice !

This is SO unbelievably crazy it is hard to comprehend.

This is the same City that refused to fund any official trips to Indiana because they wanted to allow for a religious objection to Baking a Freak’n Cake for a Gay wedding yet that same city will aid a religious group ( not a nationality that happens to observe a particular religion but an actual Religious group ) that believes in ( EXECUTING GAY PEOPLE ) to obtain an Interest free loans to purchase homes in the City of Seattle.

This is SO obscene and offensive that I can’t believe there are not Protests in the Streets ?

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[KBear]

Mrseattle, your assumption that all Muslims hold those narrow-minded beliefs is pure bigotry. It’s also incorrect.

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[JKB]

Furthermore, this is a country where you may believe and say just about anything. Including if someone else disagrees.

I don’t happen to know what the usual Muslim solution is to the problem of not paying/charging interest. But there is one – the question is hardly new.

If I may, KBear’s comment generalizes to “saying all <name of group> believe that <any idea> is both bigoted and incorrect”. Even when you can show specific examples.

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[skeeter]

Where did mrseattle make assumptions or say all Muslims share the same beliefs? He is simply saying he doesn’t think it is appropriate for city personnel to spend time trying to help followers of Sharia law accommodate their beliefs.

Let’s put it this way. Catholics are prohibited from eating meat on Fridays during lent. Would it be appropriate for city personnel to help identify restaurants that offer vegetarian dishes on Fridays during lent so that Catholics could enjoy a meal out? Or would that be an inappropriate use of city staff time?

Whether we agree or disagree with Sharia law or Catholic teaching is irrelevant. But the question mrseattle raises seems valid to me. Is this within the role of government or not?

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[beef]

It seems to be gathering steam around the globe?

“But in practice it has led most Islamic financial products to eschew the payment or charging of interest, so sukuk and Islamic mortgages must be structured differently from traditional bonds and mortgages. Instead of receiving interest payments on lent money, as in a standard bond, a sukuk generally entitles its possessor to (nominal) part-ownership of an asset; he then receives income either from profits generated by that asset or from rental payments made by the issuer. In an Islamic mortgage, rather than lending a customer money to buy a house, the bank will buy the house itself. The customer can then either buy the house back from the bank at an agreed-upon, above-market value paid in installments (this is called murabahah) or he can make monthly payments comprising a rental fee and a piece of the purchase price until he owns the home outright (ijara).”

http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/10/economist-explains-0

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/10/11/shariah-compliant-islamic-financing-usa-europe/16828599/

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[JTB]

Shades of Carly Fiorina getting all worked up over something that didn’t happen. Although I realize in both cases, it’s the outrage that’s important, not the facts.

Skeeter, I believe the Mayor and City Council routinely engage business and civic groups alike to discuss ways to promote commerce and the interests of citizens who have a range of interests and, in some cases, limitations. It’s part of their work. No where is there any indication the city would be making loans to anyone.

Quoting from the Puget Sound Business Journal article on this issue,

“The 28-member committee recommended the city convene lenders and community leaders to explore options for increasing access to Sharia-compliant loan products.”

Of course, that’s not exactly how it was portrayed in assorted anti-Muslim websites like Sharia Watch.

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[JTB]

Shades of Carly Fiorina getting all worked up over something that didn’t happen. Although I realize in both cases, it’s the outrage that’s important, not the facts.

Skeeter, I believe the Mayor and City Council routinely engage business and civic groups alike to discuss ways to promote commerce and the interests of citizens who have a range of interests and, in some cases, limitations. It’s part of their work. Nowhere is there any indication the city would be making loans to anyone.

Quoting from the Puget Sound Business Journal article on this issue,

“The 28-member committee recommended the city convene lenders and community leaders to explore options for increasing access to Sharia-compliant loan products.”

Of course, that’s not exactly how it was portrayed in assorted anti-Muslim websites like Sharia Watch.

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[Jeannie]

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[Jeannie]

While I think we should be fair to all people, including Muslims who might face discrimination, I think some of us are missing Mr. Seattle’s main point. The concern is about Sharia law, which is extremely strict, frighteningly anti-gay and anti-woman – more so than the laws of other religions in theory AND in (violent) practice. Last time I checked, we were living in the U.S., so why can’t everyone follow the same loan policies without involving religious law?

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[KBear]

The prejudice is here: “this is the same group…” Blaming all Muslims for the acts of a few. A pretty wide brush to paint a billion and a half people with.

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[KBear]

And Jeannie, if lenders are willing to make loans that comply with Muslim beliefs, why shouldn’t they?

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[JKB]

The topic dates from a few months ago, has a few kernels of truth and a lot or hype, and a Snopes article: http://m.snopes.com/seattle-sharia-law/

So if banks offer arrangements not based on interest, would non-Muslim buyers have equal access to those setups?

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[KBear]

I would think they’d have to offer the same deal to everyone, but my guess is that most non-Muslims would find interest based financing to be a better deal.

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[J242]

Hey mrseattle, how about a link to what you’re frothing at the mouth so the rest of us have a clue what you’re talking about?

Based on your previous posts, I’m sure most here (myself definitely included) will likely disagree with your *ahem* interpretation of the issues but we’ll never know unless you actually provide a link to what you’re so up in arms about.

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[J242]

Jeannie, we are in absolutely no danger of Sharia law being implemented here or really anywhere else in any industrialized nation. Stop worrying about the boogeymen “over there” and focus on real problems if you need an outlet to direct your anger towards. We have enough real problems to deal with like the tunnel debacle, Metro’s unreliable bus schedules, Amazon’s virus like spread over the city and more (Some of it’s good, some bad of course) among so many other issues.

Sharia law? Not even a blip on the radar here ion our wonderful little progressive slice of NW heaven. :)

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[metrognome]

Jeannie, if you like, I can start listing restrictions that have been imposed on all citizens of this country, regardless of their beliefs, by followers of the Christian religion who codified laws preventing anyone who was not a white male landowner from voting, preventing anyone from buying booze on Sundays, preventing interracial couples and same gender couples and persons with disabilities from marrying, executing people convicted of murder despite the 10 Commandments ‘Thou Shalt Not Kill.’ The list goes on. Clearly, not all Christians are in favor of those restrictions, just as not all Christians supported lynching black men for looking at white women, assassinating abortion providers, burning abortion clinics, robbing banks to finance their domestic terrorism (remember Robert Matthews?)

There was a similar issue a number of years ago where the Liquor Control Board denied a liquor license to a business owned by a Korean-American because she didn’t finance her business with a traditional loan. Rather, as is their custom, a group of Korean-American folks got together and put money in a pot to fund a business; once that business was successful, the loan was repaid and another business was funded, etc. Because of safeguards put into place to prevent Mafia shenanigans, LCB wouldn’t issue a license. After working with the community, the issue was resolved and the license was issued. The kicker? the funding group was sponsored by a Korean-American Christian church.

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[J242]

Take her to church metrognome!

I’m an unapologetic anti-theist and the privilege that so many religious folk get in this country and their attempts to get even more at the expense of others or force their choices onto others simply infuriates me.

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[Jeannie]

Exactly my point, metrognome. Think of it this way: I don’t observe the Christian Sabbath. I would really, really appreciate if banks and government offices were open on Sundays. This a great inconvenience to me, me, me. Why can’t they make allowances for me and other non-observers?

And I’m not worried about Sharia “law” overtaking our little corner of liberalism. I just find its precepts pretty disturbing. Now, don’t stone me for saying that!

Sharia law sanctions abuse of women, homosexuals, and “heretics.” Women who have sex before or outside of marriage are whipped or caned. Men are allowed to divorce their wives, while women must get their husband’s permission, gay people can be stoned to death, etc., etc. Oh, and a Saudi just donated $10 million to Yale U to build a Sharia law center.

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[mrseattle]

Unbelievable..!

I guess i will repeat my position and clarify Further. Either the rabid Bigots on this site that responded were Not Listening or choosing Not to Listen..

Or..what i really think is that You all are SO eager to follow the Liberal playbook of avoiding the facts of the discussion and resorting to personal attacks to discredit the opposing view as ” Bigoted ” or ” Racist “so there is No reason to have to respond to some Hate filled Wacko and you can move on all together and attack the next Neutrally Gendered person. Sound Familiar .? A bit revealing ?

Ya know..For such an Intellectually Gifted and Enlightend group of Compassionate Liberals you think you would actually READ my post before you Launch the Attack..? But, I understand. I was in the Military so I know… Your falling back on your Training.

It is a Proven and time tested technique and it is always within the top 5 in the Liberal ” If Someone dares to Question us ” Handbook so we will certainly see it again. In fact Im sure Very soon..?

If anyone noticed I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT MUSLIMS. In fact nowhere in my original statement did I even use the word ” Muslim ” and the reason for that is because I believe that MOST Muslims that don’t Follow ” Sharia ” are wonderful, peace loving people. I was ONLY referring to the Followers of ” Sharia law ” which of course is defined as ” The Body of Islamic law ” The term means “way” or “path”; it is the legal framework within which the public and some private aspects of life are regulated for those living in a legal system based on Islam.

Now of course not all Muslims agree with and or follow this Very Strict and Never Flexible ” Body of Islamic Law ” . In fact I am sure and Sincerely HOPE ( And So do all of you btw..) that Most Muslims disagree with many of the Laws and especially the Penalties of Sharia.

What i said was ” Mayor Ed Murray is using the City of Seattle’s resources to ” Aid” the Followers of Sharia Law in obtaining Home Loans In Seattle.” What that sounds like IS .. WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE when/IF ya read it.

So Mr. ” JTB ” obviously responded before his Mom made him take his Medication. I think they make Chewables now which will make it easier. They don’t make the ” Hate” flavored chewable that you like so much Sorry just Grape I Think.

The point of My Outrage and what should be ALL of your outrage ? is that Seattle IS Spending money to “aid ” the followers of Sharia Law to obtain home Loans in Seattle.

What makes it fact is that City Employee time and Facilities are being used to arrange all of this AND ” Time is Money “

Another set of Facts are that whether these particular followers believe in and follow Sharia Law a national pole of Muslims in the US revealed that 65% ( Bill Maher show ) were in favor of imposing Sharia Law in the U.S.

and that under Sharia Law Homosexuality , Adultery and a host of many other ” Crimes ” are punishable by Death. and the Koran is typically very specific about what type of barbarous technique to be used to put the Guilty to Death.

The Outragious part of this is whole thing is that The Mayor of the City of Seattles Office is Spending the City’s Time which Equals The City’s Money to ” Aid ” Specifically a Religious Group. Not a Race of Victimized people or Peoples from a certain Area or economic situation.

The followers of “Sharia Law ” .

There are some Basic Facts that are NOT disputed here

1) The Mayor’s Office is spending the Taxpayers money ( City employess time ) to Organize 3rd party aid for a Religious Group and that religious group specifically

2) that Group that is receiving the Cities ” Aid ” lives there lives according to Sharia Law

3) Under ” Sharia Law ” Homosexuality is a CRIME Punishable by Death ( Not a Maybe )

4) Noone from the City is mentioning a word of this, putting any kind of conditions on this ” Aid ” in the slightest. Or asking them even to ” Renounce” any of these Laws publicly

5) This is the same city that would not allow City employees to travel to Indiana because they passed a law allowing for religious groups to not participate in a Gay Wedding ceremony.

The absolutely Insane part about this is JUST IMAGINE for a moment that some Christian Group adopted a set of Laws and preached compliance to Laws that stated that Homosexuality was a Crime and punishable by Death ?

We all know there would be protest marches SO vast that I-5 would be closed for weeks and the Mayor would be ” Recalled ” in a matter of 5 mins.

What type of Sick Liberal Mindset ignores this..? How is this possible

Please Educate me Oh Enlightened One’s

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[dobro]

“What type of Sick Liberal Mindset ignores this..? How is this possible Please Educate me Oh Enlightened One’s”

oooookay…I’ll ignore your condescending tone and random caps style of unreadable posting to educate you. There are a lot of things in the world a person could be outraged about. For me, this BS doesn’t even crack the top 100. Nobody cares about banks trying to figure out a way to make money off a certain group of people (Muslims) and nobody cares about some city employees trying to help a group of their constituents do something. And nobody thinks sharia law is any more nuts than right wing fundamentalist Christian nut jobs that hate on gays. They’re all f*cked.

“Either the rabid Bigots on this site that responded were Not Listening or choosing Not to Listen..”

And as far as your opinions of people that post on this website, GFY.

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[mrseattle]

Well said.. I could not have even thought of a better example of the the Liberal Mental DisOrder than “dobro” and No “dobro” is not me trying to prove my point.

Yes, the banks ARE trying to figure out a way to make money off of a certain group of People the Muslims. They are an equal opportunity exploiter. They try to make money off of Every group of people. I’m sure that when move out of your moms house and you get old enough to get a loan that you will understand that borrowing money isn’t free. Unless Bernie Sanders promises interest free loans too ?

The problem with the ” Sharia Law ” followers is that prophet Muhammad told his followers that paying interest on a Loan is not tolerated.

Yes, The same Religion of Peace that allows Sex Slaves to this day Proclaims Homosexuality a Crime punishable by Death. along with women that commit adultery are to be Stoned to Death.

Oop’s I am sorry about that I was wrong. Women don’t actually have to commit adultery they just have to be accused of adultery and if they can’t find 4 male witnesses to testify on there behalf then and only then are the Stoned to Death. So, basically if the rapist didn’t bring 4 male witnesses along with him than she is Done For. NICE ..!

Of course the woman can’t leave the house to find the witnesses and since it is illegal for women to go to school under sharia law I don’t think she will have much chance in court.

Only a truly sick and twisted person could compare the ” Right wing Fundamentalist nutt job’s ” that refuse to bake a cake to a group that Openly admits to Murdering Gay people.

I am truly depressed at how Sick this City has become to not only stand by and watch women and Gay people raped, tortured and murdered in these Middle Eastern countries but to applaud this country of Murder and Death ( Iran ) to be welcomed into the World community is Sick.

Fair comparison. Christians Refuse to bake a cake . Muslims murdering Gay people.

That is Sick

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[JanS]

I am going to feed the troll…Mrseattle…if you are sick of this city, you do have a choice…move to another. It’s a big world out there. Maybe a nice little town in Texas…or maybe Alabama is to your liking. Mississippi? Lots of conservatives there, too. No one has tied you up, held you against your will.If we all are truly that terrible, simply don’t engage us. I’d be happy with that.

dobro…cheers !

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[desertdweller]

I’m offering all trolls free spelling, grammar, and usage lessons from now on.

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[redblack]

so which is it? are liberals pushing the gay agenda on america’s children? or are we giving aid and comfort to america’s enemies?

are conservatives now trying to be the defenders of gay rights?

kim davis is on line 1, and she’s pissed…

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[Ken]

Somewhere in Texas a small town is missing their village idiot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury

Usury (in the original sense of any interest) was at times denounced by a number of religious leaders and philosophers in the ancient world, including Moses,[22] Plato, Aristotle, Cato, Cicero, Seneca,[23] Aquinas,[24] Muhammad,[25] Jesus,[26] Philo[citation needed] and Gautama Buddha.[27] For example, Cato said:

“And what do you think of usury?”—”What do you think of murder?”

Interest of any kind is forbidden in Islam. As such, specialized codes of banking have developed to cater to investors wishing to obey Qur’anic law. (See Islamic banking)

As the Jews were ostracized from most professions by local rulers, the church and the guilds, they were pushed into marginal occupations considered socially inferior, such as tax and rent collecting and moneylending. Natural tensions between creditors and debtors were added to social, political, religious, and economic strains.[28]

…financial oppression of Jews tended to occur in areas where they were most disliked, and if Jews reacted by concentrating on moneylending to non-Jews, the unpopularity—and so, of course, the pressure—would increase. Thus the Jews became an element in a vicious circle. The Christians, on the basis of the Biblical rulings, condemned interest-taking absolutely, and from 1179 those who practiced it were excommunicated. Catholic autocrats frequently imposed the harshest financial burdens on the Jews. The Jews reacted by engaging in the one business where Christian laws actually discriminated in their favor, and became identified with the hated trade of moneylending.[29]

---

That same Old Testament you wingnuts use to pick and choose your bigotry from had this to say:

Exodus 22:24 (25)—If thou lend money to any of My people, even to the poor with thee, thou shalt not be to him as a creditor; neither shall ye lay upon him interest.

Leviticus 25:36— Take thou no interest of him or increase; but fear thy God; that thy brother may live with thee.

Leviticus 25:37— Thou shalt not give him thy money upon interest, nor give him thy victuals for increase.

Deuteronomy 23:20 (19)—Thou shalt not lend upon interest to thy brother: interest of money, interest of victuals, interest of any thing that is lent upon interest.

Deuteronomy 23:21 (20)—Unto a foreigner thou mayest lend upon interest; but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon interest; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all that thou puttest thy hand unto, in the land whither thou goest in to possess it.

Ezekiel 18:17—that hath withdrawn his hand from the poor, that hath not received interest nor increase, hath executed Mine ordinances, hath walked in My statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.

Psalm 15:5—He that putteth not out his money on interest, nor taketh a bribe against the innocent. He that doeth these things shall never be moved.

Christianity

Christ drives the Usurers out of the Temple, a woodcut by Lucas Cranach the Elder in Passionary of Christ and Antichrist.[33]

The New Testament contains references to usury, notably in the Parable of the talents:

“Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest..”

— Matthew 25:27

“…Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow. Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?”

— Luke 19:22-23

The following scriptures teach about lending:

“Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.”

— Matthew 5:42

“And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.”

— Luke 6:34-35

“Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

— Luke 6:38

Shall we mention all the ethnic groups over the years which have not been allowed to borrow money or to buy homes outside of ethnic enclaves? Many of us live in one now. So which ethnic minority were your ancestors Mrtrollseattle? Irish? Italian? French?

I thank all of you who bother to apply facts to wingnuts even though their factual immune system will discard them in the very next troll post.

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