Home › Forums › Open Discussion › politics of LGBT/straight exclusion
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July 9, 2008 at 9:36 pm #627153
charlabobParticipantPerhaps no one is responding because no one has anything new to contribute. When this thread first came up, a few of us were attacked for not responding because it was expected that we would respond in a certain way. Silence was considered to be offensive. Having had that experience before, and lost what felt like possible friendships as a result, I see no reason to go through it again.
Those of us who do not agree with what has become the conventional wisdom are attacked for not being open to new thought. Seems to me that knife cuts both ways AND that there’s no point in repeating what I said before. But I will.
I did not feel excluded. Still don’t. End of topic, as far as I’m concerned. People who do feel excluded, and the glbtf community, can work out whether there was exclusion and/or accusation of bias. I’m not GLBTF and I don’t feel excluded, so I abstain.
I’ve quit posting to the political threads because their “alice in wonderland without eating the cookie” feeling is very annoying to me. I know how the game is played — I’m very good at it — and I choose to sit it out.
July 9, 2008 at 9:54 pm #627154
KayleighMemberAnother poor dead horse is yet again being flogged.
I think I’m going to call Animal Control. ;-)
July 9, 2008 at 10:15 pm #627155
AnonymousInactiveUnfortunately, it has been overlooked that accusations and incorrect assumptions have been made recently in regards to this topic. That is why it was brought back up.
If you have nothing to add, of course, move on.
Individuals who made these comments have yet to respond to direct questions, that is where my post came from.
As far as a dead horse, I thought so too, Kayleigh. But now I see that it is more like a sick horse, laying on the ground, that has been misdiagnosed.
July 9, 2008 at 10:48 pm #627156
JoBParticipantso much for trying to defuse this nastiness with jokes and banter:(
hmmmm…
i wonder how anyone could have gotten the idea that there were expectations made of the LGBT community that weren’t made for any other…
lets see… older women, moms, gardeners… all met in groups that invited anyone interested in those subjects to come… i think there was even an invitation for those who are interested in classic motorbikes.
Was there a fuss? Did anyone ask why they weren’t invited?
nope. If they weren’t a member of that group.. they just didn’t show up. Imagine that.
LGBT does the same thing.. with a rather open invitation.
Suddenly there is a fuss… WHY?
I have gone back and reread the original post more than once and there was nothing exclusionary about it.
They invited their community and friends…
every person who read that post knew if they were part of that group.
But suddenly this big conversation erupts about how they are excluding people and they wouldn’t want that done to them.
HUH? What planet are we living on?
Exclusion is the nicest form of social censure this group faces on a daily basis…
suddenly they have to ask themselves serious questions about whether their community could safely advertise their interest group on the forum.
We really made them feel at home…
It doesn’t sound so nice when it’s put that way.. does it? But that is what happened here.
Was there intent to single this group out and make them feel uncomfortable about meeting among themselves?
I honestly don’t know. I gave the benefit of the doubt then.. i am willing to give the benefit of the doubt now…
but expecting apologies for or extra sensitivity towards those who caused the fuss… ???
probably that’s asking a bit much.
July 9, 2008 at 11:06 pm #627157
ZenguyParticipantThanks for a nice, objective post JoB.
July 10, 2008 at 3:18 am #627158
AnonymousInactiveZenguy – Instead of jumping on the JoB bandwagon, why not answer the question that was presented to you from JT?
Why is this comment ok:
“I think they were simply using the meeting as an excuse to attack people they clearly do not understand.”
The “they” in there, I’m assuming, is me. No, I wasn’t using anything as an excuse to attack anyone.
So, to make that sweeping, general statement and let it stand and be agreed to (without considering any other sides or opinions), is, not only ignorant, but inaccurate.
JoB – There was never any nastiness here. Where, again, are you seeing nastiness (or is this like the “name-calling” you accused me of)?
July 10, 2008 at 4:37 am #627159
JoBParticipantJuly 10, 2008 at 4:48 am #627160
JoBParticipantsoclwrkrinmotn…
i have counted way past 20… i have stepped away from my keyboard… i have recited my children’s and grandchildren’s names and birth dates. i have counted my blessings… i am asking for help.
and still i can’t control myself.
i forgot.. what am i supposed to do next????
if i soak my head i will just think:)
it’s too late to go for ice cream:(
i scream.. you scream… we all scream.. ice cream.
there.. that did it!
thanks.. sometimes just talking to you helps ;->
July 10, 2008 at 4:52 am #627161
MrJTMemberJoB, If you decide to get the bandwagon… SHOTGUN!
July 10, 2008 at 4:52 am #627162
ErikParticipantLol JoB.
Life is too short to take any of this seriously…slowly walk away from the keyboard…
hehehe
July 10, 2008 at 4:57 am #627163
JoBParticipantI am laughing too hard to get up from my chair…
which may give shotgun a whole new meaning;->
i am off to bed. tomorrow:)
July 10, 2008 at 2:40 pm #627164
JoBParticipantdawn breaks… it was cool enough to sleep… cooler heads prevail… i, for one.. am done with this thread…
July 10, 2008 at 3:33 pm #627165
ZenguyParticipantJoB answered the question quite well and there was no need to add anything.
July 10, 2008 at 4:56 pm #627166
soclwrkrinmotnMemberPopsicles, Erik. Give JoB popsicles.
You did fine, methinks.
JT: about levity, sometimes it is necessary. “Angels fly because they take themselves lightly.” Have no idea who said that, but I like it.
NR: No one is going to open this again. *laughs* Not like anyone will listen to me.
What’s done is done. It was a difficult thread.
New thread. Bye-bye thread.
July 10, 2008 at 5:45 pm #627167
AnonymousInactiveI agree, socl. It’s really sad and I’m not even a member of the LGBT community.
JT – Looks like attempts of an intelligent, adult conversation are futile. I’m sorry for the turn your thread took.
July 10, 2008 at 5:51 pm #627168
AnonymousInactiveIn summary….It’s ok to accuse straight people of intentions, motivations, and actions that aren’t true. It’s unnecessary to validate or withdraw the accusations. Minority groups are not capable of being prejudiced themselves and do not require self examination. When challenged, close the conversation. Nice, guys. It’s been a pleasure.
July 10, 2008 at 6:09 pm #627169
beachdrivegirlParticipantVery well said JT. And NR, you are spot on about the adult conversations being futile…
July 10, 2008 at 6:10 pm #627170
KayleighMemberJT, NewRes, people are trying to let it go and MOVE ON.
Why do you keep fanning the flames?
July 10, 2008 at 6:17 pm #627171
megMemberyawn…
July 10, 2008 at 6:36 pm #627172
AnonymousInactiveKayleigh, A few days ago, a couple people who had just found the thread, read through it and commented. THEY re-started the conversation. It was very civil, respectful and interesting. And…appropriate to let them give their opinion.
Once again, persons who had no involvement in the discussion, butted in, made accusations, and told us to shut it down and move on. Frankly, I’m pretty damn tired of the self appointed blog spokesperson, explaining what each and every one of us feels, thinks, and means.
It has been made abundantly clear that those not interested in TALKING, should move on. Perhaps the question should be, why do those who don’t wish to participate, continue to open this thread? Yourself included? You have brought up *dead horse* several times. How hard is it to just ignore this topic?
July 10, 2008 at 6:45 pm #627173
KayleighMemberJT, nice try on playing offense, but I’m not the problem here. If you can’t see that, then you don’t get me. At all.
I haven’t posted what I actually think and see, because I respect the hosts enough to encourage people to let it go.
July 10, 2008 at 6:51 pm #627174
AnonymousInactiveKayleigh, I don’t consider you to be the problem at all. You just asked a question so it was easy to address you specifically. And you’re right, I don’t understand your (you) post. Maybe you can elaborate. Or email me if I’m being super dense. JanS can give you my email.
July 10, 2008 at 6:56 pm #627175
AnonymousInactiveIt seems to me that if you had anything of value to add to the conversation (the adult one that was, at one time, going somewhere), disrespecting our hosts wouldn’t cross your mind.
I think the most discouraging thing that is happening here is that there are people who are interested in discussing this issue as a whole, but the majority of the LGBT community has no interest.
I think that is sad.
July 10, 2008 at 6:57 pm #627176
soclwrkrinmotnMemberJT. I think there is a difference between individual bigotry, and those who have power and prejudice. Heterosexism is real, it was expressed on this thread–and the original ones–and yet told doesn’t it doesn’t exist in Seattle. I am glad you find that so.
No one is trying to shut anything down, but rather I thought it a dead issue. The event was open, is open, and remains open. And to that, why are we continuing?
If we want intelligent discussion and dialogue, then I will be happy to participate. But it keeps spiraling into other things: disrespect, anger, and the like.
July 10, 2008 at 6:59 pm #627177
beachdrivegirlParticipantWell JT, some people consider it only there way or the highway, they are incapable of trying to understand anothers viewpoints or even the abilty to find a happy medium between differing positions. They do not realize the value of educating yourself through anothers eyes.
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