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December 23, 2011 at 1:10 am #743181
kootchmanMemberI believe you are right…it is a conspiracy. But let’s take a look at how police powers are REALLY used around the world. They are a force for suppression of dissent, enforcement of government fiat. The very very first thing modern dictators do is form a police state. The police are given immunity, and special privileges. As you watch your increasingly more socialist government tax and regulate every aspect of your life.. and provide police powers to enforce those regulations… did it ever occur to you that they are there to protect the political system not the economic order? Myanmar, North Korea, Venezuela, Nazi Germany, Iran China, etc. My esteemd friend…the communists of the old Soviet Union did just fine…no problems with vacation dachas on the Black Sea, no shortage of western goods, wines, travel, fine foods…now the citizens..they lived in abject misery as the state owned and confiscated every shred of wealth generated. The political system is trying to transfer wealth and privilege to itself… not you. What makes them so potent is… Exxon can’t deploy thousands of armed troops to get you to shut up and go home… your mayor can. You don’t know who your enemy is. Ever stop to wonder WHY there are so many in prison instead of who wants to privatize it? Which is the more important question? Why do we incarcerate at such astonishingly high rates? How can so may people run so afoul of the law? May I suggest you ponder this quote… “we are either the most evil people in the world, or the most oppressive”.. ma’am it’s one or the other. who guards them is less important then who put them there. Amen?
December 23, 2011 at 1:28 am #743182
kootchmanMemberThe erosions are gradual.. I paid $4 to park one hour downtown…hmm..but now if I have an accumulation of 3 overtime tickets … the city can confiscate my car. I know a resident of N’ville who is there because of traffic tickets. Couldn’t pay his fine, lost job, got ticketed while waiting to scrape enough money up for a new battery… got booted then towed…could barely buy a battery..now he has to pay the towing and impound fees and the tickets (with penalty) and still can’t afford the battery… police state . Lost his ability to look for work, drive to a job…down he went… who did that? Some evil, capricious corporation? Hell no… his damn city government and its unceasing appetite for more money did it to him. Well done Seattle. Go protest that …
December 24, 2011 at 5:10 pm #743183
JoBParticipantkootch…
WE the people..
don’t you get it?
the government is not some amorphous other
it is us.
shame on us for what we allow
and shame on us when we allow others to inflame us without looking closely at the consequences of the action they suggest…
i am guessing the reason that the Nickelsville resident you cite as the victim of his government
could be seen as equally victimized by the businessman who made the profit making decision to end his job…
or by the one who made the profit making decision that cut his pay to such low levels to begin with that he was unable to create a reserve for emergencies like a lost job or a bad battery.
yesterday someone told me that they had seen stats that the average american works 3 full weeks to pay their rent.
where is your outrage at that?
December 24, 2011 at 10:03 pm #743184
kootchmanMemberWell since he IS a mutual friend.. his job was terminated when his company went out of business, He no longer has the resources to seek employment, or get to his job reliably if he gets one. Should he have set aside reserves to cover emergencies? I don’t know that he had a job that paid that well. And Ms Haughty…I went down to the impound yard..to get it back..the fees and fines were over $1200 bucks,,more than the thing was worth..all fees by the city or so authorized. rapacious appetite for money is the primary cause. However..the string of events is what it is.. the government is not “WE”… oh hell no… and it hasn’t been for years. Gregoire and the state Senate want to restrict “we” at the earliest convenience. You hate Eyeman’s petitions, well, I hate some of the spend more ones.particulalry ones that are funded by public unions dipping into the public till . but they are in the main palatable.my fellow citizens voted for them..and given I have enough outrage, and motivation I can petition.to repeal it or support monetarily repeal efforts.. I will be very generous to a plastic ban repeal..as an example. .yet.. there are liberals on this very blog that think more curtailment of open government is just the very thing. The Sunshine laws of this state as written…were some of the best in the country…. yet, time after time after time… Seattle, King County and the state are hauled into court by the liberal and conservative press or private citizens who get stonewalled at every turn. The city/state/county resists citizen oversight and participation as their enlightened privilege. And you damn well know it. The are not Us…they are them.
We are damn well within our rights to demand to know what cops are repeatedly beating the hell out of us, who should not be authorized to carry weapons of deadly force or entrusted to us e them. If it is a felony for me.. it should be a felony for them. If a cop steps over the line and is found guilty.. that cop should bear the full wind of civil lawsuits NOT we the taxpayer paying for them. If a CEO of a private company..has a civil or criminal lawsuit.. every portion of it conducted in our court system is open to public scrutiny.. in fact WE will do the judging… as the jury. Not our civil servants.. that is bullsh*t.
December 24, 2011 at 11:37 pm #743185
JoBParticipantkootch..
why are you calling me Ms Haughty?
miss hotty was ok when i was younger
but even then
you wouldn’t have known me THAT well.
December 25, 2011 at 12:03 am #743186
JanSParticipantand here all along I thought this was P/B and S & M…nevermind…
December 25, 2011 at 2:34 am #743187
c@lbobMemberI’m a union man, so get behind me Satan.
That said, I do agree that police guilds, in general, protect their members far beyond the point of reason. No cop should be railroaded, but an artist with a carving knife a threat? Give me a break.
Diaz and McGinn should be out as soon as possible. There is no wriggle room here. Too many SPD officers been racist, sexist, non-responsive in addition to the hardly deniable thugish. Leaders must be held to account for the wrongdoing of a minority of cops, but not a small one.
When SPD does good, I’m ready to cheer (see my recent posts on I-35). When SPD does wrong, OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!
January 5, 2012 at 6:51 pm #743188
kootchmanMemberIt just gets better and better and better. Now the cops turn off their mics. Civilian review board time with full subpoena authority. what an outrage. The bigger your government the less accountable they are …
http://www.king5.com/home/Seattle-suing-attorney-over-dash-cam-videos-136707268.html
January 6, 2012 at 12:33 am #743189
waynsterParticipantDang Kootch you made some sence and yes I have a concealed weapons permit… untill that last rant with the police state part and makes me think you been smoking something…j/k.. you kinda went back wards a little most police are on the conservative side of the house… I agree on some with you still your liberal side needs some polishing lmao……
January 6, 2012 at 12:37 am #743190
waynsterParticipantJan your bad oh and your good lol.. Oh and Job why cant you be a hottie now?… I love the way you think…:o)
January 6, 2012 at 4:51 am #743191
JoBParticipantwaynster..
can’t be a hottie any more..
graduated to cute..
old lady cute.. but cute
but i still have the boots
and i know how to wear them:)
January 6, 2012 at 5:56 pm #743192
kootchmanMemberI have a carry permit… however, Messer Waynster, however, my right to use them is verrrrry narrowly defined. Police are given discriminatory powers we don’t have. You and I would be in jail if we had taken John WIlliams out. Forever. I don’t care if they are conservative, liberal, marxist, nilhist, or any other stripe. They need to be regulated by the citizens that hire them. If for no other reason than some have proven time and time again they need oversight. Ya gets what ya aske for.
January 6, 2012 at 8:25 pm #743193
JoBParticipantkootchman…
i often wonder at your reasoning..
you believe the police in Seattle are out of control
we agree
but your solution is to bust their union creating underpaid hostile city employees
and then put them in charge our our public safety..
think about it
does that seem reasonable to you?
you tell us the police oversight committee isn’t working
then reference it’s results to prove that we need an effective police oversight committee?
and why is “regulation” good for the police department..
but “nanny state” if they are applied to rights you say you don’t even want to exercise?
We can agree that abuses of police power have to stop…
but i think we have entirely different ideas about how to accomplish that goal.
January 6, 2012 at 8:38 pm #743194
kootchmanMemberThey are “self policing”.. setting their work rules, suspension procedures, hearings, and internally judging the merits of brutality complaints. The are empowered to use deadly force… a uniquely police authority.. we aren;t talking dock workers sleeping on the job… if you can’t see the difference…well.. discernment is the key here. I didn’t say bust the union.. (although all civil servants should be barred) I said restrict their bargaining to the bread and butter..compensation. They make 100K plus per year.. they are not underpaid. Obviously their standards are not community standards or even constitutional standards… in the absence of that.. a police review board is more than justified.. and it may just restore some faith. Obvioulsy the “blue code” doesn’t work does it?
January 6, 2012 at 8:49 pm #743195
JoBParticipantkootch…
we can agree on the need for citizen oversight…
what we can’t agree on is draconian measures for something that can be solved with more reasonable methods.
as for your tar and feathering every civil servant as being unable to reach an unbiased decision..
does that mean that juries
(which function as legal oversight committees)
should bar anyone who is a business owner or makes money from investments they personally control
from sitting on the jury for any case that involves someone in business?
I am guessing you think that notion is ridiculous.
i find the idea that civil servants are equally unable to suspend their perceived self interest to sit on citizen oversight committees… especially if what they are overseeing is abuses of power..
not abuses of wages or benefits..
As for that 100K a year figure?
Where exactly did you get that figure?
does that figure include overtime pay?
because i know some really nice guys and gals in blue who would be more than happy to move to Seattle for 100K a year.
January 6, 2012 at 9:13 pm #743196
kootchmanMemberHere ya go JoB… and add on the 40% benefits packages.
.
http://www.seattle.gov/police/jobs/benefits/salary.htm
And no it doesn’t include overtime… which is interesting in its own right…. funny how overtime skyrockets around Christmas time when a little citizen harassment helps with the bills eh? Oink, oink~ A little ass beating at “Occupy” gets them a minimum of 3 hours overtime…. and then the charges get dismissed… great racket eh? Better raise those parking rates again…we have a rogue police department to pay for. Now you know why the city won’t make an N’ville water connection…or provide housing..this is our city priority.
See this too? Happens all the time… refusing to honor the state sunshine laws… just one caaw amongst hundreds that happen every year… see yet another citizen denied his rights…!!!
.A King County judge on Friday ordered the Seattle Police Department to pay $129,000 in legal costs to a 72-year-old man who was improperly denied public records relating to an excessive-force complaint he brought against officers WHOOPEEEE more taxpayer money down the crapper…
And yes JoB the prosecutor can dismiss any juror in a pre-emtive challenge for conflict of interest… happens all the time.
January 6, 2012 at 10:05 pm #743197
JanSParticipantso, tell me Kootch, which is it? Regulate, regulate? or unregulate, unregulate? Or does it depend on who and what is being regulated according to Kootch’s law?
How do you feel about Indiana pushing it’s Right To Work law that will ostensibly get rid of unions?
January 6, 2012 at 11:01 pm #743198
kootchmanMemberYou are misrepresenting “right to work”. In a right to work state, you do not HAVE to join a union. If you feel a union is in your best interests, then join. I have never been for civil service unions. FDR was not for civil service unions. Unions have the delicate balancing act of getting what they can from a private employer, and it is self limiting, if the employer is not profitable and not competitive, they go out of business. Both sides die… but not my tax dollars ( except Obama and GM) Every single automotive plant in right to work states is unionized. Interesting though, the membership is dropping. Here;s why… 42 per cent of UAW workers vote Republican, and yet, 94 per cent of their campaign dollars go Democratic… so, they are leaving the unions for not representing their best interests. Makes sense to me. Civil servants work for us. Having civil servants bargaining across the table with other civil servants is hardly fair bargaining.
Unions who serve their membership thrive. Those that don’t lose members. It’s that simple. Unions should be free to fail just as companies are. Obviously American workers got tired of union corruption, self interest, at their expense. The only unions left, are those that are protected by the government. The can vote anytime to unionize. Most do not.
Although you never do read URL’s .. here is one from your very own NY Times.
Police are the ones to protect and uphold rights and freedoms and laws. SPD as witnessed by the posts are not and are actively sabotaging being held accountable to their emplioyers… US. In the process they are costing us hundreds of millions of dollars with one civil rights abuse after another. I can think of many things we can do with those dollars rather then settle police misconduct cases. How many millions do they need to spend on defending misconduct cases before you go whoooo nellie… sumpins not working here. The are employed by the public, they should be governed by the public. Unless you support getting “skull F—-d and having the Mexican pi– beaten out of you” as our SPD has so clearly been caught on tape threatening to do.
You once posted… we can’t agree on what is fair… we can on some issues… and this is one. So is the Patriot Act. Progressives and Conservatives think it is repugnant … you just knee jerk to any response I post… sadly. They aren;t violating Kootches law..they are violating the law.. period. And JoB saying we have to kow tow to the police so they treat us right ??!!! That;s like saying be sweeter to a wife beater…. or you get what you deserve… not in my world. If they don’t like the terms of their employment, being held accountable they will get worse? Bullshit. Get better or find an occupation that fits your personality and abusive profile. Good riddance.
January 7, 2012 at 3:42 am #743199
JanSParticipanta little info about the upcoming vote in Indiana about right to work..it’ll affect more than civil servants…and not necessarily create jobs..
http://www.union1.org/badforindiana/PDF%20Files/EPI-RTWReport2011.pdf
will be interesting to watch…
January 7, 2012 at 4:05 am #743200
JoBParticipantkootch…
i saw the wage scale…
the pay scale tops out at 78K a year…
it starts significantly below that.
but you add 40%?
why is it that when it comes to public service jobs wages aren’t wages?
you automatically add 40% for benefits?
That isn’t standard business practice…
i can’t think of any other class of workers that anyone feels free to add an automatic 40% for benefits when quoting wages..
it’s not as though they can opt out of the benefit package and collect extra wages any more than any other worker can
public service employees get taxed on wages
just like the rest of us.
So you do that because you think it allows you to inflate the figures?
even then.. adding 40% to the base pay for officers doesn’t add up to 100K.
do the math.
as for that Christmas overtime…
if we hired an adequate number of officers to actually cover the increased crime rates at Christmas time…
instead of consoling themselves with their overtime pay..
they could spend time with their families
it’s a not so well kept secret…
the marriage stats for policemen are awful…
there are a lot of reasons…
but that lack of family time is high on the list of spousal grievances for officer’s spouses…
I have attended a fair number of police social gatherings because of family members…
unfortunately the conversational choices were somewhat limited..
i could listen to the macho guy sports talk
or to the wives …
i chose the wives.
January 7, 2012 at 4:10 am #743201
JoBParticipantkootch…
that right to work thing
is a little misrepresented, isn’t it.
unions are only effective where union shops are required to hire union workers…
because non-union workers dilute the bargaining power of the unions.
What the right to work success stories don’t say is that although jobs may increase in right to work states, wages and benefits fall.
and who picks up the tab for that?
we do. John Q taxpayer.
that’s the real point, isn’t it.
January 7, 2012 at 5:01 am #743202
kootchmanMemberWell that is patently not true JoB … non-union members do not get to vote in union business. Are you suggesting that you force a loyal worker, who does not feel the union is working in his/her best interest to join or be fired? BTY the highest rate of wage increases is in right to work states… you gotta stop making this stuff up as you go along. RTW states had a real income growth rate of 62.3% from 1997 to 2008…for non right to work states, 52.% and the national average was 54.7 … in short mandatory union states had the lowest growth in per capita income in the nation. Let’s see where the job growth is shall we? Right to Work States
“National Institute of Labor Relations Research (NILRR) reports that so-called “Right-to-Work” states have far outpaced the so-called “Non-Right-to-Work” states, elevating the standard of living for those residing in Right-to-Work states. In fact, during a recent 19-year period, Right-to-Work states have gained over 800,000 manufacturing jobs, while Non-Right-to-Work states have lost nearly 2 million manufacturing jobs.”
People are not stupid…they vote with their best interests at heart, and that means right to work states. If unions were so dosh garn good… why is membership less than 10%? Obvioulsy the work force doesn’t agree with your assessment does it?
ANOTHER SPD scandal…. one a day eh?
and to add to police brutality… let’s throw in evidence tampering…. funny one cop says he’s a great guy, ya really bond with a partner, really get to know him…while he is drug addict… and here’s the kicker… I HAVE to submit to random drug testing, truck drivers have to, everyone has to… EXCEPT???? Seattle Police Officers…. who carry automatic assault weapons, pistols, deadly force truncheons… they DON”T … Police Guild Union work rules… perfect eh? No wonder they kick the hell out of you, get all jacked up, incite…. cocaine does that!!! Might have even saved his life… Ya think it is too much to ask armed police officers to submit to random drug testing? When I carried weapons in the employ of the US Government I peed in a bottle a MINIMUM of 4 times a year…randomly selected. Watch the glazed eyes, the runny nose, and as the DOJ said… the escalation of confrontation and physical force… especially you Occupiers…Good cops don’t let bad cops drive stoned out on coke!!
http://www.king5.com/home/Seattle-PD-investigating-officer-wrongdoing-136747423.html
January 7, 2012 at 5:11 am #743203
JanSParticipanthey, KMan…did you read the link I posted? look at the charts? just askin’
excerpts from the articles:
Conclusions
Once we control for our comprehensive set of both
individual and state-level observable characteristics, we
find that the mean effect of working in a right-to-work
state is a 3.2% reduction in wages for workers in these
states. We also find a 2.6 and 4.8 percentage-point
reduction in employer-sponsored health insurance and
employer-sponsored pensions, respectively. Furthermore,
we demonstrate that the wage penalty for nonunionized
workers is 3.0%, and the benefit penalty is 2.8 percentage points and 5.3 percentage points for health and pension
benefits, respectively.
It is notoriously difficult to separate out the effect of a
single public policy on wages across a statewide economy.
It is possible that future data will enable even more exact
measurements. However, our findings – that “right–towork” laws are associated with significantly lower wages
and reduced chances of receiving employer-sponsored
health insurance and pensions – are based on the most
rigorous statistical analysis currently possible. These findings should discourage right-to-work policy initiatives. The
fact is, while RTW legislation misleadingly sounds like
a positive change in this weak economy, in reality the
opportunity it gives workers is only that to work for
lower wages and fewer benefits. For legislators dedicated
to making policy on the basis of economic fact rather than
ideological passion, our findings indicate that, contrary
to the rhetoric of RTW proponents, the data show that
workers in “right-to-work” states have lower compensation – both union and nonunion workers alike.
January 7, 2012 at 5:19 am #743204
kootchmanMemberNot so. But here..let’s make it simple. RTW does not prohibit organizing. 90% of the USA work force chooses not to join unions. Makes it simple. RTW states are kicking the ass of union states.. if ya want a job… go to a RTW state. Or, since Taft Hartley Act of 1947 22 states have ratified RTW laws…. how many have repealed them? NONE
January 7, 2012 at 6:35 am #743205
JanSParticipantI didn’t write that…it’s from the article. People with much more knowledge about it than you or I, and the statistics to back it up, wrote it. Argue with them, not with me.
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