NO BILLBOARDS on DOWNTOWN SKYSCRAPERS

[RAE]

Seattle’s downtown skyline is a W S issue. We here in West Seattle see it every day. I’ve always marveled at the view. And now I’ve learned that the classic ICONIC view of our downtown skyline may become marred by illuminated corporate BILLBOARDS 50 stories in the air. I’ve always been proud that our city chose long ago not to allow its skyline to be visually polluted by illuminated logos and corporate names like in many other cities. We are not Atlanta or Phoenix or Indianapolis or any number of other cities that all look the same. We have alway had pride in our city and valued the unique esthetics of the beauty of our city and it’s setting. Why would we want to look just like any other city with tall buildings and glowing billboards in the sky . For a few BUCKS? Don’t we have more pride than that? Call City counsel and tell them NO to this kind of VISUAL POLLUTION!. WSB should be reporting on this story.

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[christopherboffoli]

Oh I dunno. It might make for a much more festive Seacrest night time view

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[JanS]

wow…like Crimmas all year round ! Colorful!

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[redblack]

nice catch, RAE. i’ll send licata another email.

although after the last one i sent, he may be blocking any further communication.

i could do without seeing any billboards, lighted or not. anywhere. ever again.

let me guess: chase wants their logo on the wamu/SAM tower.

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[Al]

Actually, it’s Russell Investments.

But Chase likely won’t be far behind.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2013620766_signordinance08m.html

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[sam-c]

redblack- I got the Licata newsletter about this issue and thought he did not want to approve it.

“I believe amending the sign ordinance, at least at this time, is not merited because the basic thrust of our current sign code has always been to permit signs that attract and invite rather than demand the public’s attention. Those signs that we do allow above 65 ft have been confined to way-finding purposes, such as locating hotels or public buildings………I believe we should take the time to address these issues. To that end I’ve drafted a resolution which asks DPD to come back to the Council next year with a report on how to establish a comprehensive set of regulations to ensure that our sign regulations achieve their intent of contributing to the City’s image and not result in the needless proliferation of outdoor advertizing “

http://licata.seattle.gov/2010/12/09/up-304-seattle-skyline-and-signs/

I don’t support the idea of lighted signs atop buildings..

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[redblack]

the council still needs public feedback, sam.

i’m glad he seems opposed, but mr. licata and the other dems on the council frequently get railroaded by big money.

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[sam-c]

yes that goes without saying- just pointing out where to focus stronger efforts. obviously you can let Licata know that you support his stance as long he doesn’t get railroaded..

I mean, it’s not like you said you were going to write the mayor and tell him you vehemently oppose the tunnel because the city will bear the cost of the over-runs….you could if you wanted to, but be sure and copy the city council.

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[redblack]

done and done. :)

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[Diane]

hey guys, how ‘bout do some research, get the facts, before joining in a protest that is essentially spreading lies, and using fear tactics about this ordinance? you can yell, use all caps, bombard city council with comments, but please learn the truth about this issue first; the change in this ordinance is NOT about billboards to be plastered all across the downtown skyline

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I agree with the downtown business community and the mayor; I will absolutely be contacting every city council member, and the mayor, in favor of this ordinance; it is about a few appropriate business signs, which will go through design review; it will add to the flavor of our urban core; hotels, public buildings, and sports stadiums are already allowed to hang their business signage; why not equity, allow same for large downtown Seattle businesses that support out local economy with taxes and local jobs?

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this very small amenity could go a long way to attract new business to downtown Seattle; the current office vacancy rate downtown is about 25%; we need more business here to provide more jobs and liven our downtown core; a few business signs will not destroy our downtown view; with the size that would be permitted, we couldn’t even see them from West Seattle

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from my home, I have panoramic view of downtown Seattle, and would love to see a bit more color; unfortunately, only white lettering will be allowed in the new proposed signage; and it’s literally “a bit”, not a mass of billboards, as the myth being shouted by protestors

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I walk around downtown often, love architecture, and find it frustrating that I have to go inside lobby of each skyscraper to look at roster or ask concierge to find out what businesses are located there; Russell Investments is one of the large businesses literally saving our downtown core economy, and placing a tasteful, appropriately sized sign at top of their new building will not in any way diminish the view of our downtown skyline

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as an aspiring urban designer, I want more “wayfinding” signs, to identify which core businesses are in our downtown skyscrapers

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Bellevue adopted similar ordinance in 2004, and I love that I can drive through their city and be able to see which businesses are located in their gorgeous new skyscrapers; and again, they are attractive, appropriately sized signs, not billboards

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I went to a meeting last week organized by the group that is protesting the proposed signage; the good part is that I learned a lot about the history of Seattle rules about signs and billboards, at least from their point of view; the bad is that the presentation reminded me of those horrific fear mongering marijuana films that we all had to watch in the 60’s, to try and convince us that if we ever smoked pot, we would turn into crazed lunatics and our lives would be destroyed forever

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do your homework please; form educated opinion based on facts; then contact city council

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[KBear]

But billboards and lighted signs will RUIN the NATURAL BEAUTY of our skyline! We should leave our beautiful skyscrapers the way nature intended!

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[Al]

I did read more on this when I heard about it so feel that I made an educated “no” decision and sent it to the city council.

1) “this ordinance is NOT about billboards to be plastered all across the downtown skyline” I think we understand that it’s not about literal billboards, but giant advertisements for the companies that amount to a “billboard.”

2) “it will add to the flavor of our urban core; hotels, public buildings, and sports stadiums are already allowed to hang their business signage; why not equity, allow same for large downtown Seattle businesses that support out local economy with taxes and local jobs?” Add to the “flavor?” What may I ask is that? A skyline uninterrupted by advertising is too plain? The logos that are on the sports stadiums were fought by local citizens as well and over-ruled by the city (hey, it’s $!). And wasn’t one of those stadiums built in spite of a city vote? So just because those business supply jobs and tax money they have the “right” to put advertising wherever they want to? What about out “right” NOT to have to look at it? After all, I pay city taxes as well…

3) “this very small amenity could go a long way to attract new business to downtown Seattle…” How? Please explain how the ability to erect a giant sign tells a company, gee, maybe we can move to Seattle instead! We can put up a giant sign! and “with the size that would be permitted, we couldn’t even see them from West Seattle” Please provide a mock-up showing how this would be the case.

4) “…I have panoramic view of downtown Seattle, and would love to see a bit more color; unfortunately, only white lettering will be allowed in the new proposed signage; and it’s literally “a bit”…” More color? Why? Is the view boring you? And a “bit” is only the beginning..what about all those smaller companies who now are going to be “unfairly” marginalized because they can’t put up their own signage?

5) “I walk around downtown often…find it frustrating that I have to go inside lobby of each skyscraper to look at roster or ask concierge to find out what businesses are located there; Russell Investments is one of the large businesses literally saving our downtown core economy…” These signs are going to be visible from the street level? Really? Most buildings have signage street level and inside the lobby along with a kiosk so you can find what you need easily…it’s not that difficult. And how is Russell and (other large businesses) siglehandedly saving the downtown core? What about all those smaller and independent businesses?

6) “as an aspiring urban designer, I want more “wayfinding” signs…” These are not wayfinding signs – they are advertisements, pure and simple. How many personal photos would contain the signage as a ferry comes into dock? Hey, it’s free too!

Advertising is a part of our daily lives, encroaching more often and more frequently. Yes, we should fight it.

New York City:

http://www.nycfoto.com/showPicture.php?pictureID=60757&albumID=14&start=3

LA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Los_Angeles_Skyline_at_Night.jpg

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[maplesyrup]

Seattle, the business friendly capital of the Northwest!

God forbid Russell should advertise!

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[Diane]

Thanks Al for your thoughtful response, though I respectfully disagree with most of your points, I appreciate that you did some research

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clearly many who are protesting do think this is about billboards to be plastered; not the case

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yes, these have been described as wayfinding signage; the public buildings and hotels signage permit was allowed on top of skyscrapers as “wayfinding”; I want same for businesses; I have done the search inside nearly every office building for businesses, not very easy; most do not have signage anywhere on outside; it takes a lot of time and work to learn which businesses are where; and many have security code doors that prevent entry

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yep; I’d LOVE to see more color all over Seattle, in residential and commercial; bored to death with overwhelming beige and grey

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love your NYC pic; is that supposed to be your evidence against signage?

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your LA pic is not representative of what could occur here based on this proposal; the Seattle signage would only allow white lettering of limited size

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what you see as advertising, I see as celebrating business and a thriving community; there are dozens of small independent businesses downtown that died when WaMu went away, and having Russell Investments come to Seattle is bringing desperately needed life back to downtown, enriching again, dozens of small business owners, and activity to downtown streets

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[hoffanimal]

” I have done the search inside nearly every office building for businesses, not very easy; most do not have signage anywhere on outside; it takes a lot of time and work to learn which businesses are where; and many have security code doors that prevent entry”

Are you kidding me? If you can’t find a business you’ve got bigger probelms. What does a security code have to do with signage?

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[Diane]

responding to Al’s comment: “Most buildings have signage street level and inside the lobby along with a kiosk so you can find what you need easily…it’s not that difficult.”

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[Genesee Hill]

If the signage was 50s era neon, kept in good repair, I might support it…a “SHELL GASOLINE BUILDING” sign with the “S” burnt out wouldn’t cut it.

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[DP]

Diane: Your arguments are very well reasoned and I’m glad you dropped in on this discussion to counteract the panic. One or two signs probably wouldn’t make much of an impact and might even look nice. But how do we stop it at one or two signs? Once Russell gets their big powerful foot in the door, I’m afraid they’ll kick it wide open. (It worked the same way with raising the height limit for skyscrapers.)

You know, the Seattle night skyline has a very distinctive character and it owes that, in part, to the lack of signage. From West Seattle it’s particularly striking. Putting just a few big marquee lights in there could easily ruin the effect.

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[JanS]

love that picture, DP

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[Genesee Hill]

Putting some great neon on the top of the buildings would hurt absolutely nothing from a West Seattle perspective!

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[JoB]

diane…

color me crazy.. but i don’t think you will be able to see the signage on top of the building from the street…

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[Al]

I should have used a Seattle skyline vs LA skyline for photos…ce la vie.

And I think the main concern is you crack open the door for “just one or two” and then you have a cascade of them running in. And yes, it does happen this way…while I personally don’t mind advertising (such as to the right of this page over there) focused on one site that I have a choice whether or not to navigate to, signage on a building disguised as “wayfinding” when it’s really about announcing “BUY ME INVEST HERE” when I simply want to enjoy a view is much different. I’m sorry that Diane doesn’t understand, but I have to wonder how involved she is with Russell really since she has been so active in the discussion. And yes, some buildings are private – not all buildings allow just anyone to enter. It’s to keep out the riff-raff.

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[Diane]

hmmm, so I’m riff raff and somehow connected to Russell? funny

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I wish I had a connection at Russell

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I totally understand your point of view; just do not agree

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actually I think it’s hilarious that just because I support the signage proposal, that you would suggest I’m somehow involved with Russell

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JoB, if you can’t see the signage from the street, how would you be able to see it from West Seattle?

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[RAE]

Gosh Diane, I was using the term “Billboard” as a figure of speech and, of course, to get peoples attention. Which is what billboards are for. Hm, interesting. But what we are talking about is large illuminated corporate signage across the top of our skyline. Now thats pretty easy to understand. I don’t need to see our skyline dotted with bright signs to know there is a thriving community there. The beautiful skyline in itself is evidence of that. That’s one of the exciting things about the many views of our skyline. So, having said that,Diane, I do think that advertising at the street level, say below 10 stories is fun, exciting and adds to a vibrant and thriving street scene. I also agree with you, Diane, about the overwhelming epidemic of gray and beige in our city architecture. I also would love to see more color and even more illuminated towers WHEN it is part of an architecture design. NOT some slapped on sign to help sell square footage. There is a BIG difference! That kind of signage you WOULD see from West Seattle or Queen Anne or Magnolia or Capital Hill or First hill or Bainbridge Is. Because the illuminated signs are 50 or 70 stories in the sky! Ok?

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[enginerd]

Although billboard signs on buildings may pose a threat to the aesthetics of our city skyline…

Let’s not over-react here.

If these had been signs with only 6-inch lettering instead of 18-feet…

This would be a non-story

Oh hai JoB!

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