Left/Right ending the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy/ the Buffet tax

[JoB]

kootch..

the plutocracy may not need the post office..

but for the growing pool of Americans who count on PO boxes or general delivery for home addresses

it’s essential

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[kootchman]

If the demand was “growing” the PO would be growing, making more revenue and the discussion would be a moot point. We are being asked to invest in an obsolete business model that cannot meet it’s own operating expenses. That is corporate welfare. Better idea… sell off the assets. Lands, building, equipment, vehicles. All the Post Office is trying to do to market themselves out of their obsolete status is million dollar ad campaigns to expand the “junk mail” business… more paper for the land fills. Put it out of its’ misery before we have to bail it out too. Oh gee whiz I am so sorry they have to fund their pension system… like everyone else has to. Don’r need em’ . The library has plenty of terminals. In fact, sell off the postal assets and fund the public library system. For the very very very… few who need general delivery… have the libraries do it. FedEx or UPS can deliver to the libraries. There.. solves the underfunded library problem.No way is a 5 billion dollar per year subsidy worth the few thousands of general delivery boxes for once or twice a month use worth the money.

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[JanS]

don’t use it, you won’t be investing in it. Problem solved, Kootch.

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[JanS]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Postal_Service

Kootch…could you give some sourcing for that 5 billion dollar subsidy thing? Inquiring minds want to know. What I read is that subsidies to the PO were phased out between ’72 and ’82, and all revenues received by the post office now are from the sales of stamps.

http://www.nalc.org/postal/perform/selfsufficient.html#subsidize

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[kootchman]

You can enjoy evening and evening of reading…. starting with the Congressional Information services office report…. the postal unions are being a bit disengenuous…. using the credit card of the the taxpayer to accumulate debt that we have to underwrite… that’s taking subsidy from the government…. sorta like a Solyndra loan.

After running modest profits from FY2004 through FY2006, the U.S. Postal Service (USPS) lost $5.3 billion in FY2007, $2.8 billion in FY2008, and $3.8 billion in FY2009.

In FY2010, the

USPS had an operating deficit of $8.5 billion.

Were the USPS to run quarterly deficits in FY2011

similar to those experienced in FY2010 (averaging $2.1 billion per quarter), it would exhaust its

cash by mid-FY2011.

http://www.apwuiowa.com/usps%206%20day%20delivery%20issue%20for%20congress.pdf

They have been before congress requesting a lifting of their statutory borrowing by 5 billion… with US…the US taxpayer of course being the underwriter… like we were for Fannie Mae, and now student loans. Other countries have handled it with great ease….

Since you all love the Euro model of democratic socialism….

The Swedish service, Posten, and Germany’s Deutsche Post have minimized their participation in the national postal market, allowing them to work as smaller and more streamlined organizations. Posten runs only 12 percent of Sweden’s post offices, while Deutsche Post runs 2 percent of those in Germany – the rest are handled by other businesses. The U.S., in contrast, runs all of the post offices in the country.

They privatized them.. allowing coffee shops, small banks, grocery stores, etc… much like MailBox USA franchises… to open. Perfect solution. Privatize them, allow FedEx and UPS to deliver General Delivery and First class mail as they do now to post offices all over West Seattle.

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[JanS]

you don’t explain that the gov’t. is actually subsidizing…you just spoke in circles. I shouldn’t have to look up anything. If you’re going to say it’s true, give us the proof. It’s that simple. Or don’t say it.

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[redblack]

the other thing that you fail to explain is that the post office is expected to fully fund its pension program 75 years into the future.

no other organization on earth does that.

the thing you fail to understand, kootch, is that the post office is a service, and shouldn’t be seen as a business competing with fedex and UPS. it is something that we agreed we needed over 200 years ago, and most of us think it should be left alone. but because its modern-day workers wanted guaranteed living wages and benefits, republicans are punishing them.

but, speaking of business and government, i think it would be kind of funny to see you get your wish to cut the government down to size.

do you know what would happen to the millions of civilian contracting and procurement jobs that contract to the federal government? they’d be the first to go.

and, brother, that is one big swarm of flies biting on the horse of government. there are entire training programs about getting government contracts, and there’s even an organization for contractors. i wouldn’t be surprised if contractors had their own union.

but, please. go ahead and kill those jobs. i’m dead serious. government contracting is probably the most egregious fleecing that taxpayers endure.

the funny thing is that contracting exploded under reagan. and i’m not sure if he thought contracting would make government cheaper or what – he couldn’t have been more wrong. but he did create some low-paying clerical and data entry jobs and took away some government bureaucrat’s living wages. what a guy.

and since you’re such a practical kind of guy, here’s a practical kind of question for you:

why do we pay KBR to peel our army’s potatoes, and how much more do you think their contract costs taxpayers – as opposed to grunts pulling KP duty?

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[JoB]

kootch…

what part of not everything is about making money don’t you get?

i saw a pic today on facebook that i almost pulled for you…

the bottom line was that for republicans..

it really is about money

you aren’t going to trick me into thinking the greatest good can be accomplished by putting my money into rich people’s pockets…

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[JoB]

redblack..

“why do we pay KBR to peel our army’s potatoes, and how much more do you think their contract costs taxpayers – as opposed to grunts pulling KP duty? “

silly..

KBR doesn’t peel our potatoes..

they subcontract for fast food

frozen french fries don’t need to be peeled ;-<

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[redblack]

jo: LOL.

i was talking about peeling metaphorical potatoes.

crikey. trying to craft that sentence gave me an acid flashback.

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[JoB]

that must have been a metaphorical flashback

this is a family channel

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[kootchman]

Because you have an all volunteer force, it’s too small in size and no longer pays $ 178 per month for potato peelers. The Army wants combatants for the price they have to pay. Obvious you have never served, Most of the combat units eat MRE’s anyway…. The grunts are out in the boonies looking for targets. We didn’t agree to post office delivery… it was started as a government PR problem… too many people were lining up at the local post office waiting to hear about the deaths of civil war soldiers. …. to minimize the casualty trauma to the civilian population, home mail delivery was instituted. That’s the origin of mail service. I’d love to see repeal of Davis Bacon for a start…. you think there is porkulus in overseas contracting…. infrastructure costs are 30-40% higher on federal funded projects. You seem to not understand that any government job is not taking away “high paying” jobs… they are taking money out of true wage earners…. to support government which creates no wealth …. USPS either stands on it’s own….or dies. This is classic union featherbedding… piling on excess and unneeded labor to deliver what few could do at less cost. I will not miss USPS… it’s junk mail delivery. You are a eco concious sorta guy… USPS is no more than a landfill choking junk mailer.

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[JanS]

I somehow don’t think the USPS is going away any time soon…

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[JoB]

kootch..

you really have to stop reading the trash talk from the right…

the post office existed before home delivery

which was indeed instigated as the result of need..

that junk mail?

generated by businesses that might think twice if they had to pay as much for it as we pay to mail a letter…

but not an excuse to get rid of mail

remind me to never send you a valentine

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[kootchman]

You really need to check facts. Hone delivery service was instituted during the civil war. The Post Office was until then, pretty much a private enterprise… Ben Franklin had the trifecta, a royal postmaster appointment and a newspaper… hence his status as one of Americas richest men. Post Roads? Private roads… for which post delivery was charged. OK then.. shut down home delivery and revert to pre 1864 model… pick it up at a post station. That ends the deficit. Geez… it breaks my heart that the post office has to fully fund the pension system. The unions wanted the defined benefits plan… they got it… now they can pay for it. 75 Years? What a bunch of gobbldy gook….. bottom line is… they want to stay fully staffed, fully pensioned, despite losing their customers. Liberals….. that’s like saying GM sells 1/2 the cars it did 10 year ago but has to keep the same payroll. Right now, there are as many postal pensions being paid as there are salaries. They should be funding it.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-22/u-s-postal-service-will-suspend-contributions-into-employee-pension-fund.html

I don’t want that junk mail anymore than I want robo dialing which is now against the law. I hope those businesses DO think twice about sending me crap I don’t want or need. It’s a waste of resources.

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[kootchman]

Article IX of the Articles of Confederation, ratified in 1781, gave Congress “The sole and exclusive right and power . . . establishing and regulating post offices from one State to another . . . and exacting such postage on papers passing through the same as may be requisite to defray the expenses of the said office .

See the part where is says…”charges enough to defray costs”? Not sucks up to congress to underwrite their operational losses. But jeez, redblack… they COULD give up their defined pension benefits and go with a simple 401K PLAN…. like most American do. Then they would be solvent. They can take their pensions from pre-tax income….. just like every private company does. IF they have the income.

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[jamminj]

the PO is going nowhere, just another talking point that is never going to be acted on by the right.

Ironic thing is, if it was a complete govt entity, it probably would be easier to phase out. But with private businesses entrails entangled with govt, it will live on. And since big business knows better, let them continue.

The argument that business knows better than govt is the exact reason that it will live on.

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[JoB]

kootch..

if the requirement that the post office fully fund it’s pension program for the next 75 years is such a good idea…

why don’t we require all businesses to do so?

want to see America’s balance sheets flip overnight?

that’s how you do it.

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[redblack]

Obvious you have never served, Most of the combat units eat MRE’s anyway….

nope. i considered it… until GHWB started effing around in the middle east. that was one call to arms that was completely for profit, and that ain’t what this country is about.

but i love the tone of disdain when you say that.

I’d love to see repeal of Davis Bacon for a start…

i’m sure you would. you have an obvious distaste for paying people who work with their hands, and limiting their exploitation to 40 hours a week just sticks in your craw.

75 Years? What a bunch of gobbldy gook…

it’s true. they’re funding the pensions of people who haven’t even been born yet, and they are required to by law.

so who wrote and enacted the Postal Accountability Enhancement Act of 2006, anyway?

i’ll give you two guesses, and the first one doesn’t count.

if PAEA hadn’t been enacted, USPS would have a surplus – estimates are around $1.5 billion.

OK then.. shut down home delivery and revert to pre 1864 model.

no. but i wish you luck on your career as a comedian.

But jeez, redblack… they COULD give up their defined pension benefits and go with a simple 401K PLAN…. like most American do.

sure. put 500,000 employees’ retirement funds in wall street’s hands.

yeah, right!

but it makes me feel good just to know that there are people like you out there who want to do away with defined benefit plans for the peasantry.

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[jamminj]

Chart of the day, and then imagine shutting the USPS and putting 500,000 people out of work.

http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-reminder-this-is-whats-crushing-gdp-2012-4

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[JanS]

Redblack…you asked “so who wrote and enacted the Postal Accountability Enhancement Act of 2006, anyway?”

By Kootch’s reasoning, Obama did. He’s president now, he’s responsible for everything… :-

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[kootchman]

Another JaNism…. smart, astute, clever. The system is not being funded for the next 75 years. They are making solvent a pension fund that wasn’t. When I co-sign as a taxpayer … I have very right to object. Sorry, when over 90 per cent of us have to make our own retirement plans.. making civil servants ride in comfort and demand in taxes, that which secures my retirement liveable… I am not on board. Did you happen to read redblack…? The city of Seattle has short paid their pension fund to the tune of 1 billion? They can’t meet the defined benefits, WA state is estimated to be in the 5 billion… and where do they get these great returns? Same place your 401K does. The difference is… when markets go up and down, civil servants put us on the hook. Do you know that little? Every pension fund is invested in Wall Street. Including the state, federal and locals. Civil servants and postal workers are hardly peasantry… they are an entitled class that spends millions to convince you that they are. The average city postal carrier makes 54K… not bad for a low skill job. But then .. add in the healthcare, the retirement, the non taxed compensation…and you can add an additional 40%… remember half make more too. Are you worth 60K to deliver Williams and Sonoma catalogues? Yea, I am fine putting 500,000 people out of work… who aren’t an essential service. jamminj would you have kept 500,000 coal shovelers employed after the invention of the diesel locomotive? Just because?

BTY redblack… they are NOT required to pre-fund their retirement program… for 75 years… they ARE required to keep current as is any private company… to the tune of about 5 billion per year. That cost would come down of course, if the USPS trimmed the 20% that congress is suggesting, You reading slef serving union pap again? Here’s the real story.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41024.pdf

See that? They have to meet the same standards of private industry… including pension funding. They want their benefits even if the company they work for is losing money, Sorry it doesn’t work that way. They wanted bargaining autonomy, they got it… now live with it,

By law, the USPS is required to “maintain

compensation and benefits for all officers and employees on a standard of comparability to the

compensation and benefits paid for comparable levels of work in the private sector” (39 U.S.C. 1003(a)). ?

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[Spring Chicken]

Civil Servants are hardly an entitled class. Do you honestly begrudge the Postal Worker who earns a modest 54K by schlepping a heavy sack with your mail in it, through rain and wind while dodging vicious dogs and anthrax powder? lol. Have you ever worked a day in your life, Kootch? Sure their actual compensation is higher with benefits, but so is yours. They agree to accept lower wages than private sector employees, knowing they will be eventually compensated for it by that guaranteed pension. They may forego the matching you get in your 401K, which limits their upside too.

Who is it that makes the stock prices in YOUR 401K go higher? Thank your neighbor, the postal worker! It’s not small investors that move the markets, it’s the pension funds who buy blocks of thousands of shares!

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[kootchman]

If they are losing money? yes. How many postal workers have been anthrax striken this year? Oh it’s such a tough tough job… the hospital wards are full of anthrax striken postal workers… if you have a low skill set…. Spring Chicken… I have worked unimaginably hard jobs… cast iron foundry worker, Gleason Works, farming laborer, binder and printing, mason tender, infantry grunt… that make postal work look simple in comparison. You carry a PRC 25, 300 rounds of M-60 ammo, extra mortar shells, M-14 or 16, 10 mags of ammo, canteens, flak jacket, helmet… etc. etc.. etc.. in 100 degree heat plus, 7 days a week, with C-rats up and down hills … sometimes for 14 straight days…. all for less than 400 per month. .. all “kitted up” probably trudging a good 120 lbs of gear… then tell me about hard work. The difference I am not asking you to pay my compensation or forcing you to accept a service that obviously people are no longer using… if they were.. they would meet their operating costs. USPS is dead.. killed off by a better technology. It happens.. it’s called progress. I could argue that pension funds distort markets… but than gets too long. Gimme a break… postal carrier life is not a hard job. No job is perfect, but postal carrier is hardly in the top 50 of hardest things to do with a minimal amount of education. Oh yea… I pay for my own insurances, benefits, … with as much money as I can save from government confiscation.

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[Spring Chicken]

I’ll bet you are sitting at a desk right now, wasting the company’s time when you’re supposed to be working, while somewhere out there is a Postal Worker doing an HONEST day’s work for a reasonable wage… he may be a veteran too, Kootch! A family man making a living with a heavy sack of your mail on his back this stormy afternoon as you sit in your cozy office, smugly judging yourself and your work superior? Did I guess right? hahaha…

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