Is Seattle Racist???

[Sue]

JT, if you go back and read those comments about the tapping, I don’t think anyone was jumping all over you, as much as we all simply had different opinions. https://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=5589 I’m an alternative practitioner and patient and I am the last person to tell you my way is the only way. I use both allopathic and alternative therapies, often concurrently. It works for me. Your mileage may vary. I am grateful that we all have such different choices for care, so that we can all work within our comfort zone.

And Socl, the “tapping” was referring to Emotional Freedom Technique or “EFT” – you can get more info on it at http://www.emofree.com

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[JoB]

soclwrkrinmotn..

i grew up in Pendleton Oregon where racism didn’t seem to be an issue.. because there weren’t many kids of color in town…

until my sister was photographed by the local paper holding hands with the little boy whose dad owned the local cleaners..

yup.. asian.

mom had a fit.. and i think that put it mildly. needless to say, the local paper didn’t get permission to print that photo.

that was the first indication i had that racism existed in my home.. i thought we were really nice people and that racism was something that had to do with other not so nice people.

as i grew older, i realized that racism ran deeper in my community than i thought… the native indians in the area were rarely seen off their reservation except during round-up.

i think it is harder to be so isolated with tv and movies than it was when i was growing up..

but i think it is still possible to think that “isms” are something that other not so nice people do and not us.

I think it has to become personal to become real.

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[JoB]

Kayleigh…

i too rail against those who prey on those who are ill offering instant cures…

but don’t dismiss the validity of some herbal treatments because i have both experienced their effectiveness myself and seen the difference they have made in others.

it isn’t always economically viable to get the kind of double blind placebo controlled studies done for supplements that are the gold standard for medications… and those studies are not the guarantee of effectiveness we assume as they are often paid for and influenced by the manufacturers.

My lovely Akita who was epileptic .. and four legged… took a supplement until her death that did far more than the medication she had been prescribed.. it actually prevented seizures.

so.. i guess i am one of those crazy pet owners… tho i am pretty sure the supplement did far more for her than it did for me:)

and i confess, my brother and i paid for mom to go to the Phillipines for “psychic surgery” the year before she died.

No.. we didn’t believe it would work.. but in this case, the hope it gave her was well worth the money it cost us. And.. with that trip… she achieved her dream of traveling abroad.

the days i spent with her in hawaii after the “surgery” are some of my most treasured memories…

i would do it again.

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[soclwrkrinmotn]

“I think it has to become personal to become real.” Very true. We all have a lot to unlearn…

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[Kayleigh]

Jo, I do dismiss alternative medicine until I’m shown real scientific proof. I believe that you believe it, and you don’t need my blessing to do it.

But the only thing that changes my mind is scientific evidence, not endless personal anecdotes. (Why do people continue to tell me those?)

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[soclwrkrinmotn]

Hey Kayleigh, I think JoB did make a good point…”it isn’t always economically viable to get the kind of double blind placebo controlled studies done for supplements that are the gold standard for medications… and those studies are not the guarantee of effectiveness we assume as they are often paid for and influenced by the manufacturers.”

Again, we cycle back to out societal discusions….

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[Anonymous]

Sue, thank-you for respectfully disagreeing with me. I think where you (the big you, not you specifically) lose me, is in the *religion* of alternative therapy. You personally, seem to have a balanced attitude.

I enjoy acupuncture. Does it *heal* anything? I doubt it. But you have to mentally will your body to relax, or it can be painful. The relaxed muscles are what I’m after. Meanwhile the practitioner is telling me all about the systems and organs and conditions they are curing.

Sometimes I think cure translates to we respond to being cared about by another human being. That response is greatly taken advantage of.

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[Kayleigh]

Soc, the thing is, when alternative therapies are given the double-blind placebo standard, they very often fail. A big study on black cohosh and menopause just showed no benefit. I do read up on this stuff, because I would love a treatment for my ridiculous hay fever that didn’t make me groggy or cranky.

If an alternative therapy held real promise without significant side effects, the drug companies would be all over it because they would make money.

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[soclwrkrinmotn]

Kayleigh, I am not convinced that they would be. *grin* I could be wrong. People sold rocks as pets.

I have no real liking for either allopathic or naturopathic medicine. So this is NOT a discussion I will have. But we can go back to prior discussions if’n you want.

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[Kayleigh]

Mkay, so how do I overcome my classist biases?

Can I still not like football and bars and beer? Or do I have to go hang out at the Triangle, which makes me cringe?

(this sounds flippant but I am being serious.)

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[soclwrkrinmotn]

We talk. We all talk and take each other seriously. Admit we have biases and prejudices. That’s where we start.

We re-read history…if’n you are serious, read Studs Turkel, and Linda Stout…they all address class. Read Cornel West, Angela Davis, Sherman Alexie, Sandra Cisneros…they have a lot to say about racism. Ronald Takaki and Howard Zinn re-examine American history…go to powwows and listen to the honor songs, go to the various festivals…White Center has a lot of them.

Oh, I have a reading list for everything. So many books, so many people to listen and learn from…so little time.

BTW, I don’t like football either. But I do like beer. And if you come to the pub, we’ll talk more.

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[JanS]

just remember…there are drugs out there supposedly “scientifically” proven..Advair, Avandia, Celebrex, Vioxx, Bextra…and others…that went the test route, were approved by the FDA, out on the market…..and THEN…they find that there are side effects that could harm or even kill you. Even HRT has been proven to be harmful, and it was the standard of treatment for menopausal symptoms. The best thing I ever took for my osteoarthritis came from a health food store..a combo of salmon oil, and a “natural” form of a COX2 inhibitor, which works specifically on things like arthritis pain. I was a skeptic, but it worked well…until the arthritis was so bad that nothing helped…and now I’m a bionic woman :)

Eh…there are times when you feel that you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t…we believe and rely on much too much the scientific way of proving a new drug “safe”, when most studies are paid for by the people who mfg. the drug. And we revere the doc in the white coat…well, of course he must be right, look at all his schooling and experience. There’s an “ism” in there somewhere, I think. Allopathic medicine isn’t the be all, end all..these people are human and fallible, and simply not always right.

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[TheHouse]

Reading back on many of your comments regarding class elitism and “smugness”, they are parallel to Karl Marx’s theories.

Rather than call the few of you that made these comments derogatory political names (starts with “C” and rhymes with embolism), I’d ask you to rethink your positions and comments.

Here is an interesting thought for all of you to chew on:

What if I told you that racism only exists in the minds of the individuals that allow it to exist? No, not the minds of the dude wearing the Klansman dress, not the mind of the neo-Nazi hate group. I mean in the minds of all of you. Racism is a self fulfilling prophecy. If you believe that Seattle (in this example) is generally a racist city, then you will find every little reason to back that theory. I feel that if an individual regardless of their race wants to lead a successful life (success is not necessarily measured monetarily), they can do so if they put their mind to it and BELIEVE they can.

That’s right folks, racism starts inside your head not someone else’s. The key to fighting “racism” is self confidence.

Watch this video. If the beginning of this doesn’t make an impact on you, nothing will.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/24076709#24076709

Sorry I had to drop some knowledge.

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[JanS]

thanks…that’s some powerful message there…and yes, I watched the entire video. I would have liked to have been in that audience. The conversation that they were having needs to be had over and over IMO…in every community.

Interesting that they mentioned Anacostia (a suburb of DC) more than once. When I lived and worked in DC in the late 60’s, Anacostia was a place that you never went to if you were young and white and not exactly streetwise, i.e., me. I find it interesting that it’s still the same, that so many areas around DC have grown up, improved, and yet…Anacostia is still what it always was..

you can drop knowledge like that any time..don’t be sorry..

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[soclwrkrinmotn]

I too watched it. Powerful, yes. I also think it proves my point, House.

And I still respectfully disagree with you. Systemic–structural and institutional–racism (and classism and most other isms) impacts the individual mindset because it shapes the societal worldview. And dropping knowledge is fine, but you aren’t the only one that did. (Again, the attitude proves my point. Thanks. :) )

I don’t think anyone on this thread said that Seattle was more or less racist than any other city. I think my point was that society itself is fundamentally racist, classist, heterosexist and quite a few other “ists.”

BTW, I could care less if you call me a communist. I think I am more a socialist–or an economic egalitarian. (at least I haven’t been called a “whatever,” which has been your opinion of me in a few other threads. *laughs* Is that something like mystery meat?)

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[Kayleigh]

House, you would be more effective in your posts if you didn’t come across so patronizing.

You seem to not understand that individual and social forces work to form who we all are. Do you think we are born with our personalities 100% intact, and all we have to do is say affirmations in the mirror and we can all be Donald Trump?

I promise you that the black people who were enslaved and hung from trees, and Matthew Sheppard, and the Native Americans who were systematically exterminated may well have had lots of self-confidence. Were they killed only in their heads?

Rather than focusing on the self-confidence of people of color, why not focus on the ignorance and hatred and prejudice that swirls under even polite society?

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[Kayleigh]

PS Soc, if y’all can’t get me to come to a “nice” bar like BPP, how are ya gonna convince me to come to a hooker-filled dive bar? (I rarely drink anything heavier than iced tea) :-)

PPS House, I think teaching strength and self-love is important to all kiddos, especially those with internalized racist beliefs. But it’s only one part of the solution.

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[soclwrkrinmotn]

Kayleigh: *laughs* Okay. How about coffee? Or iced tea and coffee? BPP wasn’t very nice to me. Those beers are too strong!!! (And I am a wimp). But seriously, going to a “hooker filled dive bar”…I do not think the Triangle is that. BUT, I assure you, I have talked to, and been a social worker for, a lot of sex workers…and well, talk about the impact of race and class. And I have learned a lot from them. (Keep your comments to yourselves, friends. ;) )

House: During my workout this am, I was thinking more about this, and maybe it is time to involve the personal, which I am loathe to do in this sort of discussion.

Self-love is necessary, but then we have a system that makes us feel like we are “less than” and institutions that want to keep us there. But hey, all we have to do is some magical thinking, and all the “isms” will be all gone?

I wish. It doesn’t work that way. If I had a nickel for everytime an agency, a business or a person made assumptions about me based upon my last name, and a nickel for everytime I got crap for being a mixed-race, working-class, openly transgender/queer individual…well, I could buy and sell Mr. Trump. (And there would be other folks that would be able to buy and sell me.)

And you cannot tell me I don’t “try” hard enough or haven’t worked or don’t know my self-worth in spite of all the chipping away at it…because that is what is being implied. I have worked most of my life, long and hard, to get where I am.

More knowledge dropped, ese.

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[Anonymous]

soc – I understand your point.

I, however, am understanding House’s point differently than you are.

In your example above, you speak of horrible prejudices against you because you are “mixed-race, working-class, openly transgender/queer individual…”

Is it possible that you have been treated poorly because you *thought* you *would* be treated poorly by other people?

That’s a hard question to answer. I know that I have witnessed this in myself before.

There is such a thing as just *mean* people. Not necessarily “racist” or “prejudiced” people, but people who are mean and can figure out someone else’s vulnerability.

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[Anonymous]

Kayleigh – We are talking about racism today.

Not hundreds of years ago when people were hanged. Everyone knows that that was horrible and wrong, that is not an issue.

Is there “racism” today? How prevalent is it today if it *does* exist?

Has anyone read the book The End of Racism by Dinesh D’Souza?

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[JoB]

What a sad thread in some ways…

TheHouse.. did you actually watch the video you posted to it’s end or just turn it off the moment those kids validated what you thought?

Those kids think the white doll is prettier and kinder and nicer because that is what the society around them teaches them. They are young.. but they have already seen the preference white kids get. They have watched television and see how black kids are more often portrayed differently than white kids. They watch commercials where the cute kid is most often white and blue eyed.

They have been in stores where they are treated differently than white kids. I see that myself all of the time…

i would bet that every child in that video has been called the n word already.. and not with affection.

but hey… you go on believing that they are somehow manifesting their own destinies with their expectations… yeah.. right.

sort of absolves you from any responsibility doesn’t it?

BTW.. speaking of injecting a little education.. there is a vast difference between the theory of communism and the practice of communism …

just as there appears to be a vast difference between the theory of republican politics and the practice of republican politics…

and i mistakenly thought the days when you could blacken someone’s name by calling them communists went the way of the cold war. apparently not…

NewResident…

i don’t even know where to start.

Did you watch that video? Do you believe that racial profiling and the poverty of inner city schools are urban myths?

How do you explain the finding that a white ex convict stood a better chance of finding a job in New York City than a black college graduate?

At least the Germans acknowlege Hitler and the atrocities. That is the least it takes to make a start.

Yes, we are guilty as a society of terrible racism towards people of color… we jail more people here than anywhere else.. and they are predominantly black.

if a black man is arrested, he is far less likely than a white man to be released for lack of evidence.

that’s racism.

it’s ugly.

it’s real…

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[TheHouse]

Soc, I was speaking about race and class which are completely different subjects than sexuality (although self appreciation does hold merit with sexuality as well).

Also keep in mind that self appreciation is an individual trait, perhaps you do have a positive mental outlook on your own life and are confident….perhaps you don’t. I really don’t know. What I do know is that you can’t speak for everyone.

If you’re struggling with understanding what I’m saying, let’s look at something else.

Stress is something that is completely self induced. You might accuse something or somebody of stress, but ultimately it’s up to you if something stresses you out. If you don’t care about what that something or somebody does to you or you feel confident that that something or somebody cannot accomplish their evil goal then you do not stress out.

Racism works under the same mechanism.

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[JoB]

New resident

you really should look up the authors of books you read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinesh_D’Souza

he is not the least bit squeamish about blaming black people for their own persecution.

basically he believes that they became rebellious when they were slaves and institutionalized the culture of rebellion and that’s why they can’t conform and get along in society.

the problem is the way they treat society.. not the way society treats them.

again. pretty convenient. you enslave a people. you segregate them. you treat them as second class citizens. then you blame their attitude.

i just can’t resist a little sarcasm here..

where do you think all those light skinned colored people came from? must have been all those black temptresses…

and those black “flowers” hanging in the trees… must have somehow hung themselves…

and the statistics on the probability of acquittal for black defendants.. and the increased length of jail sentences for equal crimes… those are just manipulated statistics…

nope! those light skinned blacks are the product of systematic rape of black women. The black men hanging from trees (if they were lucky that’s all that happened to them) were the result of white lynch parties. and those criminal stats.. let’s just be thankful you are white if you ever find yourself on the wrong end of suspicion where the law is concerned.

if you want to learn about racism, probably an ultraconservative pundit who started his career publicly outing gays.. and is proud of it… is not the best source of information…

unless you just want to be told what you want to hear.

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[JoB]

TheHouse..

“Stress is something that is completely self induced.”

so.. you have just been in an auto accident.. you have been critically injured… is your stress self induced?

if someone pulls a gun on you and threatens to kill you… is your stress self induced?

if you have to slam on your brakes to avoid hitting the car in front of you that stops abruptly, is your stress self induced?

stress can be self induced as a reaction to someone else’s opinion of you.. as you suggest… but that is not the only source of stress.

“You might accuse something or somebody of stress, but ultimately it’s up to you if something stresses you out. If you don’t care about what that something or somebody does to you or you feel confident that that something or somebody cannot accomplish their evil goal then you do not stress out.”

Racism works under the same mechanism.”

What if that someone can accomplish their evil goal? then what?

what if what someone does to you actually causes you harm? then what?

because that is the mechanism that racism works under. they can achieve their evil goal.

they can deny you opportunity. they can arrest you and hold you and convict you with less evidence.

that’s racism in a nutshell.

You can be physically harmed for no other reason than your race.

that’s racism in a nutshell.

and i bet if you weren’t white, that would really stress you out.

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[beachdrivegirl]

I do have to agree with House about stress being self induced. Being in an accident does not cause your stress..your reaction to it and your ability to handle change does. That is one reason why even when I have been put into “stress full” situations i do what I can to stick through it because in the end not only will i be stronger but a better person. I also think it is a very interesting perspective that House put on with the correlation there between stress and racism etc. I see his point. i.e something that i say that I do not see racist one that feels they will be attacked because of their race will make the comment racist etc.

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