WEST SEATTLE LIGHT RAIL: What’s before the Sound Transit Board today; what we saw at ‘drop-in session’ last night

Two notes related to the West Seattle Link Extension light-rail project:

BOARD MEETING: The routing/station-location decision is expected at next month’s Sound Transit Board meeting, but two related items are on the agenda for the board’s 1:30 pm meeting this afternoon. One is a presentation about the newly released Final Environmental Impact Statement. The other addresses its revelation that the projected cost is now as high as $7.1 billion; at last week’s Executive Committee meeting, board chair King County Executive Dow Constantine mentioned he’d be making a motion for a “workplan” to address that. The motion was available on the ST website yesterday but the list of documents for today’s board meeting seems to be temporarily unavailable, so we’re requesting the motion via email to link here in case that doesn’t get fixed quickly. (Update: Here it is.) The agenda explains how to attend this afternoon’s meeting, either in-person or online.

DROP-IN SESSION #1: We got to Youngstown Cultural Arts Center in the final half-hour of last night’s two-hour drop-in session offered for people with questions about the Final EIS. ST says next Tuesday’s session in The Junction will offer the same components, so we made note of those during our visit. First, of course, easels:

Of the ~20 boards on easels and tabletops, only a few focus on specific segments of the route. Most are more big-picture, such as showing the West Seattle spur’s place in the regional network, both when it opens in 2032 and when the Ballard extension opens in 2039:

You can browse a hard copy of the Final EIS:

And if you have questions about the property-acquisition process, there was a table for that:

Since the release of the Final EIS did not trigger the same type of formal comment period as the Draft EIS in 2022, this meeting isn’t geared toward commenting, although ST’s Rachelle Cunningham told us whatever’s received will be shown to the board. We saw scattered sticky notes:

The two remaining drop-in sessions – no presentations, just the opportunity to view materials like these and ask questions one-on-one – are set for Tuesday, Oct. 1, 4:30-6:30 pm at Alki Masonic Center (4736 40th SW), with Spanish and Vietnamese interpretation available, and Wednesday, Oct. 2, 11 am-1 pm at Gallery B612 (1915 First Ave. S. in SODO).

99 Replies to "WEST SEATTLE LIGHT RAIL: What's before the Sound Transit Board today; what we saw at 'drop-in session' last night"

  • Question Authority September 26, 2024 (10:32 am)

    Stop the insanity as the potential net gain is not worth that price no matter how Dow spins it.

  • JW September 26, 2024 (10:45 am)

      7.1 billion, thats  insane !

    • David September 26, 2024 (11:34 am)

      Agreed – we could buy everyone in Seattle an ebike and build dedicated bike thoroughfares for half that.

      • rick September 26, 2024 (12:47 pm)

        I mean sure, but the vast majority of people wouldn’t use the bike for most of the year. So this would just be a waste of money.

      • foop September 26, 2024 (1:47 pm)

        Why haven’t we built decent bike infrastructure already then? This is such a bad faith argument.

        • WS Guy September 26, 2024 (6:32 pm)

          Years ago I worked in Pioneer Square, was into biking, and I was in peak physical shape.  The perfect demographic for bike commuting.  And STILL I only did so about 30 times per year.  Seattle’s bike dreams are not realistic.

          • wscommuter September 27, 2024 (3:09 am)

            I have to agree, speaking as a current bike commuter.  I have the good fortune to work in Pioneer Square, have access to shower facilities at work, have good health and such … and still, I’m lucky if I’m able to commute by bike half the time.  Between weather (I won’t ride in the rain) and life’s circumstances which require use of a car during the day, it isn’t something I can do consistently.  Bikes, are, of course, not all that relevant to the discussion of light rail, and I recognize that.  The anti-light rail folks remind me of the anti-SR99 tunnel folks from a decade ago – lots of complaining about costs (sorry, but infrastructure costs a lot of up-front money), without the ability to see the bigger and longer-term picture.  Over time, light rail will result in fewer cars on the road.  Buses do not achieve the same result, long-term.  So I’m glad this will be built.  

          • RayWest September 27, 2024 (10:28 am)

            WS Commuter- You’re right that infrastructure projects cost money. That’s the problem. We citizens get hit again and again for these expensive pet projects, one on top of another, regardless of what we want. Voters voted down the SR 99 tunnel project because it was so expensive and a more practical solution was wanted. That didn’t stop the bureaucrats from jamming it down our throats anyway and charging us for it. Now we’re being forced to pay for an expensive project of limited benefit for billions of dollars more than what was promised  Don’t get me wrong. I think the ST line connecting the north to south Puget Sound corridor as well as the Bellevue east side is great and beneficial, but this side “spur” from West Seattle is not essential and not at that price. There are more affordable options with improved bus service. These types of  projects are why the property tax on my house went from just under $4,000 to over $6,000 in a relatively short time. Where does it stop? How much more can we afford? We can go on an on about how wonderful the project is and that it will do this or that and it will serve the community and the economy, but for those of us paying for it, it’s killing us financially while receiving the least benefit. 

          • Bbron September 27, 2024 (11:59 am)

            @RayWest your property taxes were influenced primarily by the rise in housing values. there’s no way $2000 of taxes have been added by the combination of transportation and other levies. unless you have the actual numbers, you’re leaving out the piece where your home value has likely doubled in the same time.

          • WSB September 27, 2024 (12:15 pm)

            Datapoint that’s always worth a reminder: Property owners can look at their online bill via the KC Department of Assessments website and find out the breakdown of their property taxes. (Click on “2024 Tax/Fee Distribution” to expand.) For example, total ST tax shows as $100 for this year on our 85-year-old warbox. (ST3 is also funded by Motor Vehicle Excise Tax and sales tax.)

          • RayWest September 27, 2024 (1:47 pm)

            BBron – It is multiple city, county, state and regional projects that is causing property and other taxes to increase. ST Link is definitely part of that. Yes, property values have gone up, but it is not just based on the land value. The West Seattle Link extension is helping to drive up property values, meaning higher property taxes. It’s all inter-related. I guess it’s fine for higher-income people who can afford to buy the modest, million-dollar-plus homes in West Seattle, but it’s gotten too expensive for many long-time moderate-income families and single residents.

          • JustSarah September 27, 2024 (2:02 pm)

            As WSB said, you can see the exact line item for Sound Transit on your property tax bill. Mine is ~$140 annually, which is 1.7% of my total property taxes. 

        • Gary Richardson September 27, 2024 (7:14 pm)

          Every time they try, they try to sneak in a bicycle license and tabs requirement as an excuse to maintain “expenses”.I could remember way back when I had to register my 10 speed and have a sticker placed on the frame.People wised up and abandoned bike riding enough that they cancelled the program out of lack of revenueThey tried to bring it back about 2 decades ago and failed. At some point, they hope a new batch of people will give in and pay for something they don’t have the power to abandon.The problem is the investment doesn’t match the infrastructure costs to the same proportion in usefulness and costs of paying bridge tolls on the old 520 bridge from half a century ago.No bike tunnels, no elevated rooftop vistas, viaducts or bridges, no parking towers, no wireless “charge as you roll”  infrastructure, no investment that could compete with just riding for free.The problem is the investors lack vision to make anything sweet enough to beat the risk of abandonment.There are other cities around the globe that have made things I wish we had here but no incentive has been attractive enough.It’s just as bad as trying to get good pay from an employer. They just try to take the cheapest route with the highest return without seeing the holistic benefit.

    • RayWest September 26, 2024 (7:23 pm)

      This project has become insane. Especially considering that it was originally approved in 2016 for $1.7 Billion for the combined Ballard & West Seattle construction but in less than tens years it has grown to $7 Billion (and increasing) just for West Seattle. Something’s not adding up here. Businesses will be torn up, people living in the proposed path will be forced from their homes, and W.S. residents are facing huge property tax hikes that is already causing many homeowners to move out of the area. This project doesn’t need any more consideration. It needs to be cancelled.

      • Bilbo September 27, 2024 (11:51 am)

        If so many people are moving away, how come housing prices keep going up and the vacancy rate remains so low?

        • JustSarah September 27, 2024 (2:03 pm)

          Time to trot out the old fave: “Nobody goes there anymore. It’s too crowded.”

        • WS Girl September 27, 2024 (2:50 pm)

          Bilbo – Those who can’t afford to live here anymore sell their homes to move to less-expensive areas. There are many high-income people who can afford to buy homes here. It’s been changing the population make-up here for some time.  

    • Jason September 27, 2024 (8:15 am)

      We are not cancelling this. We voted on it. NO TAKEBACKS. Highways will cost money and are money pits too. 

    • 1994 September 27, 2024 (11:34 pm)

      Almost $2 billion per mile…..so much more could be done with $7.1+ billion…..than building a 4 mile train track.

  • Chris September 26, 2024 (11:10 am)

    We see the School District wants to close up to 21 schools to close a $100 million deficit.   We’ll be paying taxes for many years on a 7.1 billion bill, sure to be more, for this project.   It would seem that our kids are more important than the Light Rail right now.   Why can’t we take care of our kids first and the other needs of our community – the broken down roads, our seniors, and the list goes on.    This is ridiculous.   It seems the priorities are in the wrong place at this time.

    • Al King September 26, 2024 (12:01 pm)

      Chris. The light rail zealots are SURE that light rail will fix everything and are happy to pay any price to get it. Unfortunately they’re happy to make everyone else pay also.

      • K September 26, 2024 (1:39 pm)

        Or…  hear me out here…  schools and light rail have two different funding sources, so you can’t just slosh money from one over into the other (well, not legally).  One need not be any kind of zealot to follow laws about expenditures.  Here’s a great idea, why don’t we fund both like every other functioning metropolitan area in the world does?  Our lack of an income tax on the wealthy is what’s making people think they have to choose between educating kids and investing in infrastructure that wall allow their kids to not have to spend 6 hours a day commuting.  

        • Lo September 26, 2024 (4:35 pm)

          Well said! I agree 1000%!

        • Villagegreen September 26, 2024 (10:45 pm)

          It’s enlightening to read comments from well informed people. Rare these days.

        • Jethro Marx September 27, 2024 (8:00 am)

          You lost us- first we need to follow laws about expenditures and then your great idea is to enact a tax that is illegal, what?

      • Bbron September 27, 2024 (3:58 am)

        in what way have you seen folks advocating for the WSLE acting zealously? in regards to “at any costs”, the only time i’ve seen infrastructure projects get proposed and passed without any hemming and hawing have been highways and car infrastructure. this is actually where folks are asking for things at any cost. the comments that any post about the light rail ends up attracting always have a thing for being ahistorical and paint those asking for investments into public transit as the belligerents… 

        • Gary Richardson September 27, 2024 (8:08 pm)

          I could remember about 35 years ago I could drive from Admiral Way and 63rd Avenue to Bellevue Way in about 15 minutes and I-405 Kirkland North end in about 20 minutes on a good traffic day.Since then, the density has gone up to spur slower arterial speeds and more speed enforcement.People have been so separated from how nice it was to get from here to that distance quickly and safely like a frog in a slow boiling pot of water.The seed limits and enforcement was necessary for safety’s sake but nothing was done to plan on restoring that mobility freedom.Admiral Way, Delridge Way, 35th Ave & California Ave went from 35 mph to 25 mph, West Marginal Way used to be 45 mph and now is 25 mph.Very little has been done to restore the speed to safety ratio or infrastructure to density ratio in any innovative way to bring back work/life balance options because they seem so expensive.I see the higher costs worthwhile if getting from A to B can compete with speeds and safety from half a century ago (minus the lack of seatbelts and other safety measures) and have a reasonable fixed amortization of 30 years to 60 years lifespan or 40/100 like our Hydropower projects.If you could get from your home doorstep anywhere in West Seattle to the stadiums in roughly 10 minutes as opposed to all the overlooked slowdowns and delays we have been accustomed to over the decades, you might actually enjoy life much better and that includes cutting other destination times such as work as well.The population density might be enough to make such an investment in advanced long term transport architecture at this time.

        • Gary Richardson September 27, 2024 (9:56 pm)

          Not really, It just needs similar design principals as those used to improve the speed of computer chips data throughout will work the same.It’s just we have a century of experience with road construction to comfortably bet on it 

      • Gary Richardson September 27, 2024 (9:21 pm)

        A lot of people seem to be gaslit or are set up nicely to not care about the quality of the existing light rail.I could ride an E-bike from the ferry terminal to the Othello light rail stop quicker than bike riding or taxi to the international station and riding rail.I could get almost comparable times just pedaling those two points. What light rail can’t do is compete closely with cars with light traffic.What they need to do is consolidate to fewer  stops, interference free higher speeds and add smart rapid extensions.

    • Quark September 26, 2024 (2:42 pm)

      Think of all the money we could raise if we sold off Lincoln Park — prime real estate! We could fund so many schools! But it would be a deranged, criminal thing to do. We need to fund schools, yes, of course. We also need to invest in developing the transit system we need for the long term, something that should have been generations ago. This is a wealthy city and we can afford to do both education and infrastructure.

    • Al September 26, 2024 (5:44 pm)

      Well done Mr. Dow Constantine! Supporter of you! Al Semple

  • Lisa September 26, 2024 (11:28 am)

    Absolutely absurd that this is getting pushed through at over 7 BILLION dollars.

    • CAM September 26, 2024 (1:50 pm)

      Agreed. It should have been pushed through decades ago at a fraction of that cost. Look at the position our forebears put us in! How selfish (although realistically that could be said of most decisions made between the 70s and 90s)! I’m really glad we aren’t doing the same thing to future generations. 

    • mygoodness September 26, 2024 (6:47 pm)

      Agreed. It’s an absurd amount of money. For reference: that’s about how much Joe Biden has been working with Congress to send to Ukraine to help win the war against RussiaMeanwhile, West Seattle public school teachers are faced with a 4% pay cut.

      • Dax September 26, 2024 (10:22 pm)

        For reference, the US has spent $175 billion on the war in Ukraine

      • PNW Raven September 29, 2024 (4:13 am)

        MyGoodness – Everyone here can express their opinion about the cost of the ST3 West Seattle spur, but let’s not deviate into cherry-picked, false equivalencies that have no relevance to the WS Light Rail issue. A bi-partisan Congress voted to support Ukraine, but mostly by donating older U.S. military equipment to them while approving funding to defense contractors to build new weapons, tanks, aircraft, ships, etc. This creates jobs and a tax revenue stream that returns those dollars back to the U.S. government. It serves U.S. interests politically, militarily, diplomatically, and economically to support Ukraine. Unless West Seattle is being invaded by foreign entities, the $7.1 increased price tag it just too high.

        • JustSarah September 29, 2024 (9:42 am)

          Got it. Unless it’s defense spending, it’s too high. 

  • Alki resident September 26, 2024 (11:28 am)

    7.1 billion isn’t even the final total. This gross decision to continue planning this is mind-boggling. The new stadiums weren’t even built for 7.1 billion. Is every Washington resident expected to help pay for this or just King County? 

    • Anne September 26, 2024 (12:21 pm)

      Thank you for saying this-by the time this gets started -until it’s finally done we’ll WISH that 7.1 BILLION was the price. In the time it takes to build this-the price of everything will have gone up-labor, materials, etc. 

      • PNW Raven September 26, 2024 (3:39 pm)

        I want to know what the final price tag on this project would be. ST is not telling us how much we’ll actually be paying with the interest on the loans and any other unknown costs. The final cost will be more than double the $7 Billion (which will be more like $10 Billion) that they’re now pitching at us. Probably over $20 Billion. I feel ST is being less than forthcoming.

        • Bbron September 27, 2024 (3:18 am)

          “interest on the loans” is included in infrastructure budgets, so ST has never released a budget without accounting for its capital repayments.

          • PNW Raven September 27, 2024 (9:40 am)

            Bbron – Are you sure the interest costs are included in the final budget? If so, that’s great. It’s just that I remember from the failed monorail project that not only were costs spiraling out of control, voters were not being told the full financing cost that significantly raised the price. Hopefully ST is being fully transparent.

          • Bbron September 27, 2024 (12:41 pm)

            @PNW Raven, yeah it’s called “debt servicing” and they assume a 5.3% for bond repayment (which is higher than the ~4.5% reality right now). I do wish it was easier to find a budget for WSLE with line items, but debt servicing is called out in detail in their 2024 financial plan

    • mygoodness September 26, 2024 (6:51 pm)

      You know who can afford this? Jeff Bezos. Amazon. And they should help foot the bill as their absurd five day a way return to office mandate is pushing thousands of gas guzzling, greenhouse gas emitting cars back onto the roadways and causing traffic jams. Amazon made over $30BL in pure profit last year and Bezo’s has over $200BL in personal wealth on top of that.

      Why should teachers and other working class citizens who are struggling with layoffs, pay cuts (public school teachers facing paycuts right now), and inflation pay for this when these entities are overflowing with wealth?

    • Pro-Transit but against light rail here. September 27, 2024 (8:49 am)

      West Seattleites are tired of attending these bogus events.  All of Sound Transit’s outreach to West Seattle over the past three years is merely to promote their agenda and propaganda.  We get to add little post-notes to charts and “conceptual” station design.  But we NEVER are able to get our serious questions answered.  Now, we have less than 30 days to “comment” on ST Final EIS – and we don’t even know the route.  All food options between Delridge and the Junction will be gone.  The WS Health Club will be destroyed.  Music lessons for 1000 kids – relocated?  Where? ST says all they will give businesses $50,000 to relocate within 50 miles!  That will destroy the businesses AND our community.   At least 500 people will lose their jobs!  

      • Jason September 27, 2024 (10:30 am)

        Do you have any actual proof of this 500 people will lose jobs thing? Lightrail has only increased employment everywhere it’s built. And even building it increases employment.

      • K September 27, 2024 (11:08 am)

        Sound Transit spent $54 million dollars to study a gondola idea that was an absolute joke from the outset because of community feedback.  If anything, they’ve been listening TOO much, and need to just stop listening at some point, tell the armchair engineers to go away, and build the thing.  Would save taxpayers a lot of money if they weren’t spending years listening to self-serving bad faith arguments that all boil down to “West Seattle is changing and I don’t like it.”

        • Chemist September 27, 2024 (1:43 pm)

          I think you’re mistaken on the $54M cost of the Gondola feasibility study.  The only source I found with that number was articles from TheNeedling which is a news/comedy parody site.  Repeating that number over and over as a way to dismiss studying an option sounds like a self-serving bad faith argument in itself.

      • Gary Richardson September 27, 2024 (11:47 pm)

        I agree.They need to take more responsibility for the displaced businesses. It’s not right for various reasons.1. Setting a business plan takes a lot of time to research & consider demographic data and other variables to build a good business plan. And now, they need downtime compromising their normal activity.2. $50,000 goes quick for some businesses. Depending on their costs and disruptions that amount can be gone quickly. Especially if you will struggle to build new clientele and lose old ones. Your new location may also be too close to a competitor and forces both to struggle.3. It shows a lack of stewardship in  your community by just flipping them some cash and saying, “Good Luck”4.Businesses need resources, government zone and tax planning support. And, options to choose more than one type of assistance.5.The community loses a source and has to find alternatives which may cause costly disruptions in time and/or money that the customer planned carefully to integrate into a well thought out routine. For example, the business is in walking distance and saved time and money. But now they have to add additional time to transit somewhere else or possibly conflicts with other things such as their work schedule. They may have moved there to make the best scenario they can Planners seem so oblivious to their disruptions to the time and budget of others or are just numb and can’t sense very well what others go through.At least in Boston, they went out of their way to keep traffic flowing during the big dig decades ago and completely understood that the extremely high costs at that time was nothing compared to the losses caused by disruption.The current light rail selfishly serves itself by aiming to pack in passengers like sardines with too many stops. While it may look good to improve the amount of 5 minute commercial access sites per route, the stop density disrupts a commuter’s time at home.I understand that they may be trying to emulate living like the Japanese. Where it is often cheaper and time saving to eat out and apartments don’t need kitchens as a result.The problem I see is there is too much gap in the planning. Government just moves too slow.

  • JustSarah September 26, 2024 (11:58 am)

    As seen on Reddit:

    • Oerthehillz September 26, 2024 (8:16 pm)

      Published by the National Assoc of Realtors, lol.

      • JustSarah September 26, 2024 (9:29 pm)

        Which makes it even more believable, IMO! Realtors have a lot riding on property values and real estate desirability. They’re actively promoting good transit infrastructure as a value-add.

        • Oerthehillz September 27, 2024 (5:30 am)

          Exactly, which is why it’s important for them to sell the idea.

          • JustSarah September 27, 2024 (10:54 am)

            You do realize how circular that is, right? The NAR is promoting public transit because it’s good for neighborhoods and property values. So then you’re saying they’re only doing that because… It’s good for neighborhoods and property values? Like… Yes… That’s the point. 

        • Gary Richardson September 27, 2024 (8:56 pm)

          Not quite so!The numbers are a little misleading in the benefit category in the same way that some businesses subtly increase prices 40% and then offer 25% off to make it seem like a great value.Only this manipulation is done over longer time periods to go by undetected by more people.The Transportation improvements via Light Rail added too many stops and it affects the cost of commute time.Businesses that offered improved conveniences to offset quality of life metric have been priced out with higher rents and taxes. And, they subsequently raise the price of what they sell to the point that robs the convenience and other quality factors that soothed the commuter’s discomfort.Over time, all the selling points just gaslit tranters into washed down expectations left feeling why am I so numb?Other creative measures to combat this indirectly, such as having a tool library that allows you to borrow tools for free helps but hasn’t bred enough spin-offs or expansions to keep up.If you look at Internet access speeds push to “Last Mile” fiber optics for quality of service improvements before cellular took over, you don’t see a similar push with transportation. Yet both moving data and moving matter has highly parallel impacts.Going to wireless would be similar to introducing air taxis, hydrofoils, and ground effect craft. While last Mile fiber optics from main hubs would be similar to “Pipelining” light rail with limited stops and Double Decker cars. While, adding automated E-bike and E-vehicle support to stops with multi-door access at both ends would be similar to adding cache to improve data rate experiences.

  • Dead September 26, 2024 (12:20 pm)

    I will be dead before this is built and they will still be talking about it.

  • Denden September 26, 2024 (12:40 pm)

    “Fish or Cut Bait” I say time to CUT BAIT!

  • Chris September 26, 2024 (12:54 pm)

    Just seems sad our community needs help & the City keeps pushing this forward.   Aren’t our kids important?   Our breaking down roads ?  Our seniors? Hungry people?  Homeless people?   So cement is more important?   This cement structure is not going to help what is needed now in our community..   Plus all the businesses that will be displaced plus those losing their homes.   Plus, you can be sure it will end up being much more than 7.1 billion which will raise our property taxes and more.    Is it really worth it?

    • tls September 26, 2024 (1:38 pm)

      Agree with Chris! West Seattle Light Rail – is it worth it? No! Many other issues are!

      • Jason September 27, 2024 (8:16 am)

        Why are you making it about schools vs. lightrail. WE NEED BOTH. This is a false dichotomy in regards to the cost issue.

        • PNW Raven September 29, 2024 (5:10 pm)

          Jason – We may or may not “need” light rail, but we do need better school and other civic funding, but most of us can’t afford to pay for everything. It comes down to priorities and what is cost-effective. $7.1 Billion is not cost-effective or reasonable for a four-mile stretch of light rail that will not serve the majority of West Seattle residents, particularly when there are more affordable options. This was also not what citizens voted on. That huge of a price difference is mind-boggling. This project needs to be cancelled and there is a “No Build” option that can be utilized.

    • K September 26, 2024 (1:43 pm)

      It’s concrete, not cement, and “the City” isn’t pushing anything.  Sound Transit is a Regional transit authority spanning three counties.  They are in charge of the light rail.  The City of Seattle and King County do provide funding for road repairs, some emergency services for people experiencing homelessness, and so forth.  They can continue to do these things even with a light rail. 

  • No Way September 26, 2024 (1:19 pm)

    So how do we stop this, vote no on the next move Seattle package?

    • Joshua September 26, 2024 (4:29 pm)

      I would start by educating yourself about jurisdictions. Sound Transit is regional, the move levy is for the city. The move levy has nothing to do with sound transit. Maybe once you know who you want to fight you can move on to how to fight them. 

    • Bus Rider September 27, 2024 (9:10 am)

    • Kathy September 30, 2024 (10:36 am)

      Don’t  vote against Seattle Proposition 1 in November. It funds fixing street, sidewalk and bridge infrastructure and represents 30% of SDOT’s budget and replaces the expiring levy.

  • tls September 26, 2024 (1:41 pm)

    Insane!!

  • Scarlett September 26, 2024 (1:48 pm)

    Well, a good start is to show up at light rail meetings and express your concern and show your opposition to this project.  Don’t be intimidated, don’t be shouted or talked down, because it’s all false bravado;  gleaning through the mountain of comments from supporters,  not one has been able to present a reasonable defense of this boondolge, usually it’s just a plate of conceptual platitudes.  But it will be tough trying to derail this money train; too many powerful industries at the public trough waiting to be slopped down with taxpayer dollars. 

  • Salal September 26, 2024 (3:22 pm)

    Not A Good Plan

  • Jamie September 26, 2024 (4:17 pm)

    According to soundtransit.org, “Federal commitments so far for completing these expansions include nearly $2 billion in FTA grants for reaching Federal Way and Lynnwood.”I’m assuming federal grants would make up some portion of the West Seattle spur expense? 

    • WSB September 26, 2024 (5:00 pm)

      Yes.

  • JG September 26, 2024 (6:21 pm)

    There are some ways to significantly reduce cost on this segment and actually improve the line at the same time. Eliminate the tunnel in West Seattle in favor of elevated, which actually makes it more assessable, cheaper, and quicker to build. Elevating that part of the line also makes it possible to build less expensive stations. That new Duwamish bridge rendering looks quite grand. What if they didn’t make it look quite so grand and instead were more minimalist in form and function. It may not be the architectural gem they envision, but besides being cheaper it would not block views to Elliott Bay and downtown from the current bridge. We would all be able to see what is past the bridge , instead of just looking at the new bridge.   

  • Wseattleite September 26, 2024 (7:53 pm)

    The truth is becoming more apparent. And no, no one voted for this. The lipstick is washing off the pig.  

    • K September 26, 2024 (9:28 pm)

      A majority of voters did vote for this, whether you like it or not.

      • RayWest September 27, 2024 (4:42 am)

        K – Wrong! A majority of voters voted for a $1.7 Billion project to expand light rail to both Ballard “and” West Seattle. Now it’s $10 Billion just for the West Seattle spur. That is not what we voted for. It’s become a “bait & switch,” white-washed con job trying to convince us that the huge cost overruns and scaled-down “mini-me” version is no big deal. No amount of lipstick is going to make this pig look beautiful. End it now.

        • K September 27, 2024 (10:14 am)

          It was never projected to be $1.7bn, and it is not now projected to be $10bn for West Seattle.  If you have to make up numbers to support your argument, that’s a sure sign you don’t really have an argument to begin with.

          • raywest September 28, 2024 (3:38 am)

            K – In 2016 voters approved spending $1.7 Billion to expand ST3 for Ballard and West Seattle. That was the original price. Now they’re saying it’s risen to $7.1 Billion. At that rate of increase, it likely it would cost much more by the time it is built. I don’t trust anything we’re being told as ST has a “build it at any cost” mentality. I say it’s time to employ the “No Build” option that is a legal alternative regarding this project.

      • Look Both Ways September 27, 2024 (5:00 am)

        No one voted for this @ $7B. Times change. Rates change. Voters here have certainly changed. This disruptive project with no chance of ROI should be re-evaluated.

      • Lisa September 27, 2024 (7:26 am)

        NO ONE approved a 7.1 BILLION dollar project.

      • Canton September 27, 2024 (8:15 am)

        Believe it or not, but opinions can change with over two decades into this. This whole thing only serves the Alaska junction and Avalon area; everywhere else, needs a bus to access it…

        • CAM September 27, 2024 (9:58 pm)

          2 decades? That’s rich. I voted for this specific project less than 1 decade ago. Try again. 

    • RayWest September 27, 2024 (4:22 am)

      JustSarah – You’re definitely right that realtors have much riding on future property values and real estate desirability. I’ve been getting 3-4 calls a week from private equity companies aggressively wanting to buy my house, which is close to the Alaska Junction. I used to get one or two calls every few weeks. This has really stepped up as they and realtors sniff the economic opportunity brewing here. They have the most to gain and will be pushing hard for this project. I’m sure many other WS residents are getting similar calls.  While property values will rise, so will property taxes, along with the higher taxes to pay for this bloated $7 Billion (probably over $10 Billion plus the financing costs) project. And that’s in addition to  the skyrocketing homeowner insurance costs and other increasing expenses we’re all facing to live in this fantastic neighborhood. The ST project will be great for some, but unaffordable for many others who are already struggling.  This project is no longer viable.

  • Atheist September 27, 2024 (8:43 am)

    I voted for 1.7 billion not 7.1 billion. That’s the rub. Voters are allowed to change their minds based on changing project variables and a lack of accountability.

    • Jason September 27, 2024 (9:30 am)

      I voted for it and would vote in support again. We voted for 4.5 Billion, FYI, and Fed pays 2 Billion of the 7 (if it even goes to 7…they have lots of ways to cut it down) No cost too high. We support highway projects that do far more pollution and damage and have similar costs. BUILD IT NOW before it gets higher…

      • Scarlett September 27, 2024 (4:12 pm)

        Do you know how much CO2 construction gushes into the atmosphere – before even ONE rider boards?  No cost too high?  That’s  facile idiom, not an argument.   Highways versus light rail?  Apples and oranges.  Let me know when light rail can get that aid unit to your medical emergency  AND get you to work.   I give up with you light rail fanatics.  

      • Wseattleite September 27, 2024 (9:28 pm)

        “No cost too high”. Just wow.  Did I miss the Koolaid being passed around?  If this is the argument for LR in WS, the entire thing needs to be immediately dismissed as lunacy.  

  • Pete September 27, 2024 (9:58 am)

    I’m excited for it to be built.

    • Keven Ruf September 28, 2024 (8:18 am)

      Me too! Will be awesome and will make our region better!

  • Alex September 27, 2024 (2:57 pm)

    Can’t wait for light rail to get to West Seattle! Hopefully they don’t cut cost too much to make it possible! 

  • Scarlett September 27, 2024 (4:20 pm)

    Hear’s another dandy I read often:  “We spending X dollars on highways,  so why are we upset about a few dollars for light rail?”  

    So, because we are spending probably too much on highways and roads, we should turn around and spend a silly amount of money on a transportation solution that really isn’t really a solution at all. 

    Got it.   

  • Gary Richardson September 27, 2024 (9:06 pm)

    I bet if someone offered a full massage seat without all the jokes that might follow, many people would be willing to sacrifice a half an hour’s pay every day just  to accept a slower commute.

  • KayK September 28, 2024 (2:02 pm)

    Food for thought- the annual budget to run the City of Seattle is over 8 billion$.

  • Gail September 28, 2024 (8:40 pm)

    I’m a huge transit enthusiast, and Link is great. But West Seattle is not a good investment. $2 billion per mile, to what is a relatively low-density neighborhood, is ridiculous. There are other routes that should be prioritized over this one—like Ballard to UW, or the Route 8 subway. West Seattle light rail is quickly turning into a boondoggle. Seattle should build a busway instead. 

  • Kathy September 30, 2024 (10:27 am)

    West Seattle light rail belongs on Delridge Way to replace the H line with feeder routes connecting to the other West Seattle neighborhoods. They wouldn’t need a tunnel and could have more stops. Scrap this project and start over. 

  • Gary Richardson October 2, 2024 (6:32 pm)

    I had a chance to attend the Oct 2nd meet down at SODO (across from Crispy Creme) and talk with some of the team members and provide my two cents.What I noticed was Jefferson Square was up for being demolished to make room for construction space.From what I seen, there are several nearby empty lots or minimal teardowns that can do the job for less acquisition costs (such as the Bank of America, Home Street Bank/Jiffy Lube,  and Masonic Lodge Property) that could serve as sites to burrow underground adjacent to Jefferson Square with less disruption and even have a temporary road capped over it.The construction crew and some equipment could be given access to the underground parking at Jefferson Square in order to better make use of the area with less disruption.Considering that a lot of our hills are mostly bedrock that the ice age glaciers couldn’t carve out, I’d bet that the tunnel digging wouldn’t have to be very deep to reach soil that is free of any interfering infrastructure.Since 41st Street at Alaska goes from a slight grade up to about 20 feet higher after Edmonds.From the south parking lot of the Masonic Lodge, the elevation difference is approximately 30 to 40 feet!It is possible that the Bank of America site would make a better lay down and staging area for carving and supporting 41st street without disrupting any overhead infrastructure.I could be wrong but it seems very expensive to demolish Jefferson Square and no one wants to be left holding the bag to eat the cost.Perhaps someone may have better insights or see possible smart demolition methods that could repurpose and recycle in place and even do a reinforcement makeover similar to what the Swedish are doing with old concrete.I just don’t think the public needs to be left holding the bag. If anyone would be willing to tear it down at a fixed cost and eat any cost overruns, I’d be game for that.More later.

  • Gary Richardson October 2, 2024 (6:59 pm)

    While I took some time to look over the Jefferson Square site, I also looked at the alternative elevated site at Fauntleroy and Alaska.The one appealing thing I found with this site is the two gyms in each side and nearby grocery.It kind of reminded me of the elevated station integrated into the mid rise mall in Yokosuka Japan with its extended promenade and overhead access to business across the street.I could see myself coming home from work, getting off the light rail with my Last-Mile transportation (My Bike). And utilize designated bike parking to swim/work out at the YMCA or LA Fitness before going home.Also, if there is an elevated pedestrian/bike friendly access to the nearby grocery store, I could seamlessly load my saddle bags with groceries and head home with little to no worry about a car hitting me or me slowing down traffic that is forced to patiently wait for others.One argument I made with the ST3 staff is it is more important for me as a rider to consider how long it takes me to get from A to B and potentially be able to tell my employer that I can work overtime because I have a reliable and fast (not rapid) transportation.This metric is worth more to me than how many riders can be crammed per hour per car. The value added is the commuter gains more spending power with less sacrifice to family/personal time.As a result of getting from A to B faster, the commuter gains more power and value and has less struggle with fighting time vs money.Additionally, looking at the commuter as a LEAN principle asset, better balances the power equation between people, business, and government. No one wants to be holding the time loss benefit bag with diminishing returns downstream (It just sounds one step closer to living like 3rd world India and eventually people riding in top of the railcars at some point in the future).More Later

  • Gary Richardson October 2, 2024 (7:34 pm)

    Here is another perspective I have for making the commuter a value added centric.The Tram/Trolley haters so far haven’t done their homework and have put together weak arguments that are either outright misleading or fail to make a compelling argument.The so called $54 million report turned out to be wrong and if it had been read would have shown a gross lack of metrics to prove that a trolley wasn’t viable.What I noticed right away, was the study was trying to make an apples to apples comparison of Trolley vs Light rail instead of utilizing trollies as a complement to light rail yet busses are considered a complement to Light Rail.To be fair, I only see a few areas where a trolley can add value as a last Mile connection or as a consolidating upgrade.One area of benefit is having a station near the ferry terminal and the trolley takes patients, hospital staff and students/residents up to Harbor view, Swedish area rather than hoofing it over to 2nd or 3rd to wait for the #3 bus to take you up there.In Portland Oregon, the Tram down there is free for doctors, patients, and students and is also a tourist attraction.Pundits may argue it isn’t safe but the safety record is comparable if not better than other transportation modes.I also see a second line running from the ferry to Chinatown as a great asset rebuild for the Asian community and bypass access to the stadiums.Some may argue that it will hurt foot traffic business in pioneer square but I disagree. The restaurants in Chinatown may offer a subsidized or free ride if the ticket is validated with a purchase over a certain amount.The other areas of interest is a ride back after a long walk along the waterfront and across the pond, access from the Water taxi (near Salty’s Restaurant) to the edge of the Admiral Way bridge next to Metropolitan Market via Fairmont Avenue.The route there has an ecotourism feel by running through a densely wooded valley and when arriving at the top, a potentially lucrative mid rise hotel or condo complex that has limited impact on views.Those impacted by view depreciation to their property values could be compensated to recoup their investment. This could boost the Admiral Way Junction into a new tourist spot and higher income magnet with other compelling features targeting wealthier people.Even if you are not a commuter or a tourist, a treetop ride with stunning views down to Salty’s may make for a great once in awhile family activity or special date event for the night.More later.

  • Gary Richardson October 2, 2024 (7:58 pm)

    Another two cents I have is what about the inclusion of the nearby native American tribes like the Duamish?Back in 2009, they had their own vision of incorporating value-added features along the Duamish Waterway and we’re game to seeing this area improved in several ways.We could partner with them for mutual benefit like we have with developments related to Casinos and other investments which included prevailing wage jobs to support the economy.Casinos, often provide free rides to their gaming sites and a collaboration of co investment in water taxis, gondolas, bikeways and tunnels could benefit both.Boeing workers at Seattle and Tukwila may prefer to get off at Pigeon Point if they have easy access to water taxis near the bridge.There was mention of using Gondolas along the waterway and at key points crossing the waterway. Perhaps a Casino and Boeing could share the costs to benefit both.I do know that Boeing does wish to improve bike access and a bike friendly gondola might make a low cost West Seattle access more appealing than putting bikeways that are disruptive to auto traffic along East Marginal Way and still carries an element of risk to bike safety.Please don’t turn East Marginal Way into a 25 MPH zone!I know the Water Taxi and Gondola ideas digress a little but they potentially can reduce commuter trips for West Seattle residents trying to reach Broadway, First Hill, Boeing and along the waterfront.I haven’t looked at gondola access from the top of Queen Anne down to one of the Ballard extension stop but that might also bring a similar appeal to access to Admiral Way Junction.The multi-mode transit feature has good appeal with the right bundle of options.More later.

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