health care reform

[dhg]

Especially if you’re Bea Arthur! Just don’t let Betty White charge you for that late night cheesecake!

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[hooper1961]

eat a banana for a late night snack ~25 cents

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[JanS]

hooper, what do you do for excitement? Sounds like you have a boring life ;-) We all need excitement in our lives (translate that to “fun” if you like) every now and then, even on a budget. So…what do you do? And if you need cheap suggestions…I can help with that…really…things like half price at goldstar.com, etc…

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[hooper1961]

i work out a lot. walking/hiking is cheap.

my budget is tight (and increased business taxes has made it even tighter due to increased taxes (L and I, unemployment and B & O) that have infuriated me). i have never been an extravagant spender.

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[JoB]

hooper 1961

that high deductible helath insurance plan..

that kicks in after that high deductible is met

doesn’t generally cover 100% of the bill…

we don’t have a high deductible…

we only pick up 10% of the reduced bill at most

yet.. a detached retina ran 3 grand plus out of pocket.

i am not sure what universe you are living in

but when reality hits..

it’s gonna bite.

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[hooper1961]

that is what the HSA is for!

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[JoB]

hooper 1961

drained in a heartbeat..

we budgeted our HSA contributions for the co-pays…

and medical expenses related to my illness

that our health insurance doesn’t pay for…

the unexpected caught us just like it catches everyone else…

and trust me.. a detached retina on a guy whose idea of exercise is walking the dogs was unexpected.

btw.. i would lower my deductible and increase my HSA if i were you.

your diet doesn’t come anywhere near the minimum 7 servings of fruit and vegetables a day that help keep you healthy.

good thing your health insurance isn’t calibrated on your risk factors..

because you aren’t doing everything you can to reduce your risk :)

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[hooper1961]

actually i eat a very healthy diet, lots of fruits, whole grains and vegetables. very little sweats and absolutely zero pop. and i exercise daily, don’t smoke and rarely drink!

and you know what would reduce my risk is to make it illegal for health care providers to cost shift from people who pay their insurance to those that don’t. i am tired of having to pay more in insurance and taxes to pay for those that don’t purchase insurance. NO INSURANCE NO SERVICE.

my HSA account requires $6,500 contribution a year + $350/month payment that is equivalent to $891.67/month health cost. $6,500 pays the $3,000 + out of pocket and leaves $ for unplanned future expenses

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[JanS]

hooper..I have had cancer, I have had both hips replaced, I have had a serious and costly pancreas disease, and now have renal failure. No one will sell me insurance…period. And what are you gonna tell me? To effing bad? You’re gonna die? Our civilized society is better than that. None of these things were caused by things that I did..it was all out of my hands…you don’t have answers for that.

There is a real world out here, dear Mr. Hooper, that you know absolutely nothing about, or if you do, don’t care to acknowledge. I am 63, and have every right to health care if I need it.I served my country in the Army, and feel that perhaps that allows me a little payback. I shouldn’t be denied because it doesn’t appeal to you. I don’t think I’m privileged. I don’t feel like I’m a burden on society. But I don’t think I should just be ignored and left to my own devices and die because you feel that I should be because I haven’t purchased insurance. I would feel the same about you if it came to that. Circumstances don’t always go the way you think (or plan) they will. You’re younger than me..there’s still time for it to fall out from underneath you.

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[dhg]

Am I missing something about HSA? I thought I was free to put in whatever I wanted, depending on my needs. I’m not putting in anywhere near $6500 /yr.

Also, I may be missing something else, I don’t think insurance companies pay for people without insurance which means your insurance company is not shifting the costs of the uninsured onto you. They’re shifting your money into the pockets of CEO’s but most definitely not into helping the uninsured. We the taxpayer pick that up and that is where Obamacare is going to help.

That no insurance, no service is a really interesting idea. Do you mind if we send them to your house to die? We have to send them somewhere. We’ll make your house the beginning of the New Calcutta. ‘Cause if they ain’t got insurance, they probably haven’t planned for a burial either. It takes tax money to bury them but not if they can walk first to your house!

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[JoB]

hooper 1961

really? lots of fruits and vegetables???

i see two fruits and you might get serving of veggies into your pasta…. maybe…

“breakfast (cereal, yogurt and orange)

current ~$2/day with cheaper cereal and yogurt $1.50″

“lunch (p & j sandwich + apple)

current $1.25/day w/ cheaper bread $1.15/day”

“dinner (varies includes red meats and seafood lots of pasta dishes)”

either you have minimized your menu to make a point

or you really think two servings of fruit a day is lots.

You know…

talking with you is like stepping in quicksand.

you don’t seem to have any concept of the basics…

so just for you.. a wikipedia course in basic concepts…

insurance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurance

taxes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax

nutrition

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutrition

i could post other links as well that you might find helpful… but you could start here.

it really helps to have a grounding in the basics.

i know it’s jsut a wiki course and woefully inadequate..

but it’s a place to start

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[hooper1961]

unfortunately jans there are too many people that have gamed the system that is not fair to those that pay for insurance and taxes. you sound like somebody who has played by the rules and do to circumstances beyond your control you need some help that is less objectionable but frankly you should have purchased insurance from the States high risk pool. I am not denying anyone health care; but it is not fare to make others pay.

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[JanS]

I can’t afford the high risk pool..it would be twice the amount of my rent. There ain’t enough money in the coffers no matter how much you don’t eat – lol…and that’s the reality..period! It’s the real world, my friend…it’s there and one can’t get around it. You have very pat answers, but they don’t always fit the circumstances. I’m trying to point that out. You have blinders on.

We see things how they affect us…it’s personal. You only see what affects you financially…I hope against hope that you don’t have to face things the way I have. It’s sobering. I see things how it affects my life, personally…my health. That 40K you were talking about? I don’t hardly make that much…my reality…and I make do for the most part. Except for being able to afford health insurance and it’s exorbitantly high price. It will change when “pre-existing conditions” no longer exist…that hasn’t happened yet.

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[hooper1961]

JoB dinner includes a vegetable and/or salad. snacks are apples, oranges/grapefruits (whatever is cheapest at the time) and bananas. and i really do keep a simple cost effective menu. boring but keeps a lean budget.

JanS – yes and when that day comes it will be the lower risk people who end up paying more. how the blank is that equitable. where in the constitution is guaranteed health care identified?

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[JanS]

the constitution…if you take it at it’s face value, doesn’t give women any rights, still has slavery in it, and on and on. So don’t pull that constitution crap on me.It says that it’s to “promote the general welfare”…definied as “Welfare

welfare n. 1. health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being. [<ME wel faren, to fare well] Source: AHD

(Welfare in today’s context also means organized efforts on the part of public or private organizations to benefit the poor, or simply public assistance. This is not the meaning of the word as used in the Constitution.) Stop with the constitution not guaranteeing health care. You wanna go back to the original? Be my guest…but do it somewhere else. It was written to change with the times, and has nothing to do with this conversation.

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[hooper1961]

i am tired of being taxed to the nth degree for government services that do not generate future wealth.

education and infrastructure provide for future wealth and i support these services. education dollars could be far better spent, to much spent on bureaucracy and the 1% with no chance for success. infrastructure is falling apart and yet we spend billions on unemployment that is like giving a person a dinner but not teaching them how to fish. create crews to fix infrastructure!

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[JanS]

life is not all about wealth..we need to get over that…there’s more to it than that. Maybe I’m wrong, maybe that’s simply what you’re all about. I don’t know you personally, and shouldn’t assume anything about you…is the almighty dollar that important to you that everything else..like compassion, be damned? I’d like to think not. I’d like you to show me I’m wrong.As I said..some people have blinders on. I could be one of them. I’m not above admitting that.

Infrastructure is more than something a “crew” can fix.It’s not just a pothole in the street. It’s simply not that simple. If it was…don’t you think it would have been done?

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[JoB]

hooper 1961

“future wealth” ?

future wealth is all that concerns you?

today in Arizona some idiot shot a US Congresswoman.

Was it because she was one of Sarah Palin’s famous crosshair targets?

Or was it because the young man had come to believe in the them and us culture and thought eliminating everything that he thought stood in his way was the answer?

I am guessing from his my space page that he expected suicide by cop as his final chapter…

but he didn’t go out in the blaze of glory he expected

Alan Grayson put the shooting in perspective in one of his campaign committee emails today

“But I will tell you this – if he shot Gabby out of hatred, then it wasn’t Gabby he was shooting, but rather some cartoon version of her, drawn by her political opposition”

Those people you love to hate for supposedly reducing the wealth of our nation are not cartoon characters. They are people with the same kinds of dreams you have.

The really sick joke in your tirade is that if you take the time to learn something about the correlation between social services.. education, health care, social welfare and public transportation you would find that the nations that take the best care of their people also have the healthiest bottom lines. Those programs translate directly into wealth.

If you don’t believe me think back to when America had a healthy bottom line and you will find that it was when public education mattered and we were proud of our social safety net.

I don’t know if you are that guy hooper..

the one who will spew his anger across the page and eventually find a human to become his cartoon target…

but right now you are speaking like one.

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[JoB]

Hooper 1961

btw…

you are really good at distractions..

but let’s say your hypothetical budget was practical…

which it isn’t…

how many years would your hypothetical human have had to save his 900 a month with no unexpected expenses…

you didn’t budget a $6 grand plus HSA for them so their high deductible health insurance won’t protect them from the unexpected the way you foolishly think it will you.

how long would they have to save to

weather those mythical 2 years of unemployment?

it’s the math thing again…

$900 a month sounds like a lot

until you find out how long you have to work to accrue $80,000.

Are you putting a quarter of your income in savings every month without fail to weather your own possible storm?

I am guessing not.

it’s that us and them thing again:(

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[hooper1961]

job – fyi i calculated my monthly grocery bill the first half of the year it was $297.36 and in the second half it crept up a bit to result in monthly average of $318.10 for the entire year. the remodel of the admiral safeway has made it harder to find the daily specials that allowed me to keep my monthly grocery tab less than $300 as i had stated.

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[dawsonct]

I keep asking hoop, and you keep ignoring my question: are the American people not THE MOST BASIC PART OF WHAT MAKES US AMERICA!? Aren’t WE America’s BASE infrastructure?

—

Those corporations that have become so rich and powerful because of our well-educated populace, would not have had their success without the foresight of our predecessors, who understood that a peaceful society does not thrive in deprivation.

A necessitous man is not a free man.

To suggest that ensuring the health and tranquility of her citizens is NOT the responsibility of OUR government, is to completely miss the point of the revolution fought by our Founders.

We could pour all the money in the World into our ports and transportation system, schools and libraries, police and courts, but if you ignore the basic needs of the American public you are left with a bunch of useless structures and institutions.

—

Once again, our Nation is NOTHING without her people; WE are the base infrastructure!

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[dobro]

I’ve voluntarily removed myself from any hooper-related posts but I looked in on this one today and I really can’t understand why you all waste your cyberbreath on such a heartless, brainless troll. I don’t think you’ll convince a jerk like this of any of your well reasoned points but fair play to you for trying. I’m gone again.

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[hooper1961]

dobra i am no troll, i am a frustrated taxpayer that sees the government squandering billions on social programs to able bodied and minded people and billions more for medical care for people who did not take care of themselves and/or buy insurance. and how much limited government resources is appropriate to spend on very old people on health care?

i agree the super rich and corporations need to pay more; but as it is now people in the middle are being squeezed and paying the brunt of the taxes, make to much to get help, my kid is in college no help, but not enough to be able to afford it without sacrifice (aka no money to do anything).

dawsonct – ok you state that the people are the base infrastructure, infrastructure sometimes gets too old to cost effectively repair. simply rethinking the end of life health spending could save billions.

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[JanS]

so now you’re gonna be the death panel? Seriously? How can we possibly take you seriously when you say things like that. Do you have parents? Are they alive still? Mine are..in their 80’s. Too bad for them, they’re useless, let ’em die, better for Hooper’s pockets and bank account? Good grief! You’re gonna be old one of these days, and who do you want it to be to decide whether you’re useful to anyone or not? You’ve already stated your disappointment that you’re wife’s untimely death was financially hard…was that all she was to you, the bottom line? I’m simply astounded by what I think of you right now…it’s difficult to put into words. We’re not supposed to make this personal on here, but what you’re saying makes you sound like a horrible, crass person. Are you sure you want to be thought of that way? Seriously?

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[JoB]

hooper 1961

to tell you the absolute truth..

i don’t have a clue who you are

or what you think you are.

half the time i think i am speaking with some teenager who just got their Ayn Rand fix…

i choose to react to you as the person you say you are…

because there are too many people out there who hear you and think you are saying something sensible..

so to that person i say…

i can see why you would be frustrated.

i am a taxpayer and i am frustrated.

but taking it out on the little guy because the big guy has you by the nuts doesn’t make you a big man…

you my friend will be an old person one day.

maybe it will be a very long time

maybe it is just a blink in time’s eye.

regardless…

you had best hope that people who say the kinds of things you say aren’t running the show when it’s your turn.

because if they are

this nation will have squandered it’s most valuable resource

the wisdom of people who have lived long enough to see that rhetoric doesn’t deliver.

that’s the bottom line you know…

all that crap about entitlement

it’s pure crap.

the poor aren’t the entitled

all you have to do is look at their misery to know…

that’s why you make a cartoon of them…

some lieing cheating them

to distract you from the misery you personally fear…

what this old person can tell you for a fact is that it doesn’t work.

making them the problem doesn’t change a thing

the big guy still has you by the nuts.

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