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January 13, 2011 at 6:14 pm #711749
KBearParticipantEstablishing a nation-wide single-payer health care plan would be the greatest thing Congress could do to boost small businesses. The increase in taxes would be offset several times over by the savings of not having to buy insurance.
January 13, 2011 at 6:40 pm #711750
hooper1961Memberjob – i am complaining against deficit spending and that liberal’s do not get it at all. people who do not pay for insurance should not be bailed out by the government.
January 13, 2011 at 6:49 pm #711751
dawsonctParticipantWhat do you mean liberals don’t get it at all!? Who TF do you think CREATED the majority of our debts?
Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush.
Those are the names at the head of the most profligate administrations in the history of our Nation. Go after them.
January 13, 2011 at 7:09 pm #711752
hooper1961Memberobama has added enormously to the debt also.
and i am sick and tired of people who choose not to buy health insurance and then expecting government (ie taxpayer) to pay for their medical services, especially expensive late stage life services.
January 13, 2011 at 8:01 pm #711753
auParticipant“i am sick and tired of people who choose not to buy health insurance…”
First of all I can’t afford health insurance so that’s not a choice and secondly even if I could afford it I am not sure I would purchase for profit health insurance. It is a defective product sold by corrupt corporations.
January 13, 2011 at 8:03 pm #711754
miwsParticipant#1: If each post where hooper sez something to the effect of;
“and i am sick and tired of people who choose not to buy health insurance and then expecting government (ie taxpayer) to pay for their medical services, especially expensive late stage life services.”
or….
“people who do not pay for insurance should not be bailed out by the government.”
or….
“…..the credit card is maxed out.”
and not much else was said in the particular post, and those posts were deleted, leaving just one instance of each, this thread would probably drop back to just two pages!
#2: Others have posted it on these threads, I’ve thought it many times, now I’m going to “say it”; hooper is all about hooper.
We have endlessly posted about how large corporate/wealthy person greed is the main cause of the situation we are in, not the poor folk and the average working (in which I lump “blue collar” workers and small business owners together). He claims to hold much of the same disdain that we do toward the corp/wealthy, but then always spins it back to blaming the “little guy”.
He whines about the prices at a locally, family owned grocery store, because the big corp grocery is currently under rebuild. I can’t remember if he’s actually stated as such, but strongly indicated this local grocery should just arbitrarily lower their prices, (Just for hooper?) even though it’s been pointed out that the local grocery very likely does not have the buying power, and sweetheart deals that the big corps get.
One would think that a small business owner would be more aware of, and sympathetic to disadvantage the local grocery, which even if it may not technically considered “small business” what with having around 5 or 6 locations, that most people would consider a small business, in comparison to corp grocery chain.
But, no.
It’s all about “me“.
Mike
January 13, 2011 at 9:02 pm #711755
JoBParticipantmiws..
i agree that hooper does tend to filter his comments through his personal perspective…
but then don’t we all.
and that it’s difficult to have a conversation with someone whose sole response it to repeat the same debunked point over and over…
but heck.. i felt that way about George W too..
January 13, 2011 at 10:43 pm #711756
hooper1961Memberautumn have you looked into group health? the monthly cost for me and my son is ~$350/month; a high deductible plan that provides coverage for an emergency that is the purpose of insurance.
January 14, 2011 at 12:18 am #711757
JoBParticipanthooper 1961
if your son is in college
have you looked into the health policies sold there?
they wouldn’t be likely to require you to carry such a large HSA
btw.. are you aware that ignoring preventive care is the surest way to create medical emergencies?
January 14, 2011 at 1:57 am #711758
hooper1961Memberjob i will investigate college health care, thank you. and i understand preventative maintenance.
i carry a large hsa to keep my premium affordable.
January 14, 2011 at 3:08 am #711759
JoBParticipantyou would be smart to advocate for single payer
both from a personal standpoint
and a business standpoint..
good friends have a daughter who has come down with thyroid issues post delivery of her first son…
she has no insurance and they are picking up the tab…
if she is lucky they will be looking at a lifetime of medication…
she is a talented chef
but if she can’t work she doesn’t have insurance and she can’t earn.
life happens to the best of us.
January 14, 2011 at 3:53 am #711760
hooper1961Memberpaid for with sin taxes and taxes on pop, candy, snacks and the like? consumers who use a lot of these products tend to require more medical services.
January 14, 2011 at 3:59 am #711761
hooper1961Memberand what do you do for cost control to deter overuse/abuse? co-pays? limits on procedures? limit universal coverage to basic cost effective and preventative procedures and require insurance for expensive treatments
January 14, 2011 at 4:53 am #711762
JoBParticipanthooper1961
paid for in saving from the secondary medical costs we assume now
as for the abuse thing…
i don’t know how to tell you this hoop
but health care isn’t a drug you can become addicted to…
contrary to all that advertising you have been watching…
the abuse of the health care system is pretty much an advertising ploy to get you to pull the rug on your neighbors and let the health insurance industry rake in larger profits…
now advertising…
that appears to be something you can become addicted to
step away from the tube
January 14, 2011 at 5:26 am #711763
hooper1961Memberjob you did not read my post i said paid for by sin taxes and taxes on pop, candy, snacks and the like? consumers who use a lot of these products tend to require more medical services. and yes people over consume when they do not pay for something, co-pays is a no brainer
January 14, 2011 at 5:39 am #711764
KBearParticipantNo, Hooper, paid for by INCOME TAX. That way everyone pays, everyone can afford it, and everyone’s covered.
January 14, 2011 at 6:15 am #711765
hooper1961Membernot everyone pays an INCOME TAX now; thus not everyone pays. and how are bad habits, smoking in particular, taken into account?
sin taxes and taxes on pop, candy, snacks and the like? consumers who use a lot of these products tend to require more medical services and in essence are paying for it.
and yes people over consume when they do not pay for something, co-pays is a no brainer
January 14, 2011 at 4:53 pm #711766
KBearParticipant“not everyone pays an INCOME TAX now; thus not everyone pays.”
If you’re referring to wealthy people and corporations who exploit tax loopholes or receive outright giveaways, I agree that needs to be changed. If you mean people who don’t make enough income to be taxed, I reject your notion that the wealthy are entitled to better health care than the poor. We’re all human, and your money doesn’t make you more deserving.
January 14, 2011 at 5:45 pm #711767
dhgParticipantSetting up a health care system that punishes people for unhealthy practices simply cannot be done. Crossing the street against the light is unhealthy, snowboarding down anything but the bunny run is unhealthy. Some people are genetically born unhealthy. We simply cannot take that point of view. We saw this in practice with AIDS. People who got it through transfusions were viewed by society at large much differently from those who got it through sexual activity. This is not a road we want to travel down.
Public option, everyone’s in, no one’s judged.
Suddenly GM’s cars will cost 1/3rd less because they’re not paying health insurance. This is good for the economy.
January 14, 2011 at 5:46 pm #711768
JoBParticipanthooper1961
you already pay for the medical care of the indigent in the most expensive way possible.
You pay some of it in the form of taxes.
You pay some of it the form of increased fees at the hospitals that provide indigent care.
You pay a lot of it in the profit margins of all the different business entities that your health care dollar passes through… overhead and profit margins consume a huge chunk of change at every stage… from processing to accounting
You pay for it when you pay your insurance premiums which factor in the increased medical costs from indigent care and multiple profit margins
I would think you would want to save some of that money
but no..
you would rather focus on the wrong you think some imaginary person does
than the system that is quietly and efficiently draining your wealth as we speak.
if you want to survive hoop..
you can’t get distracted by playing the blame game…
it’s time to focus on the bottom line.
personal responsibility dude:(
January 14, 2011 at 6:41 pm #711769
hooper1961Memberjob – i agree with you that the current system is a mess. the health care reform in my opinion is going to add to the cost. there are cost effective procedures and immunizations that make a lot of sense and would save the system resources. these types of things make sense. but expensive/experimental procedures at public expense do not.
providing a chevy to all and if someone wants a cadillac they pay for it.
January 14, 2011 at 6:45 pm #711770
KBearParticipantHooper, ALL standard medical procedures were experimental at one time. What’s experimental today may become commonplace in the future, so experimental procedures provide great public benefit.
January 14, 2011 at 6:59 pm #711771
JoBParticipanthoopr 1961
although health care reform might add to your personal costs since you can no longer spend your health savings account dollars without approval from a physician ( a prescription)…
it will not in fact increase costs…
unless of course those yahoos currently sitting in the house manage to strip all of the savings out while leaving the increased costs.
that is always possible.
those expensive/experimental procedures you complain about are already being paid for at taxpayer expense in the most expensive way possible in our nation’s emergency rooms.
it turns out that some of those experimental procedures restore dieing people to healthy taxpayers and are actually quite cost effective for the public pocket…
who knew?
it’s way past time that we left making medical decisions to physicians.
They are actually qualified to determine what might or might not be effective for the patient entrusted to their care.
January 14, 2011 at 7:30 pm #711772
miwsParticipanthoop, for the 1,300,282,890 time, a person does not need a car, Chevy or Cad, to exist. Access to adequate, affordable healthcare, when needed is needed to exist.
If you’re talking about elective surgery, such as plastic surgery for pure vanity, then yeah, the patient and/or their non-taxpayer supported insurer, should be responsible for 100% of the costs.
If a patient is “Oh noes! I haz crow’s feet!“, or wants a boob job, because they just aren’t big enough, or a guy wants hair implants because he doesn’t like the solar panel on the top of his head, they should pay.
But, if someone is severely scarred in an accident, (in which they were not at fault), has a severe birth defect, a woman has breasts so large that they are causing severe back problems, or a woman that has had to have a mastectomy due to breast cancer, why should they be denied, just because they aren’t extremely wealthy?
Mike
January 15, 2011 at 7:48 pm #711773
dawsonctParticipantHoop, it may be your OPINION that even this most modest of health INSURANCE CORPORATION reform will cost more money for the individual taxpayer than our current system of paying these corporations $1 for .70, .60, .50 cents worth of medical services, but it is KNOWN by the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office that it will, in fact, cost the American taxpayer less.
You are entitled to your own opinions Hoop, but not your own facts.
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