Go Hillary

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    Go Hillary!

    (That’s all I can say.)



    Yes, go hillary!

    I haven’t given up yet.



    Yes, Hillary. Please go. Please go very far away.



    LOL… Huindekmi…

    one thing i know about Hillary.. you won’t get rid of her that easily:)

    If she were a man, persisting in the face of virulent slanders and opposition would be called courage.



    I am with you Huidekmi.. I think that to have a chance for the democratic party to have any shot of winning the November election…we need Hillary to take a hike and the sooner she does it the better.



    And here I thought I was the only Hillary fan left! I felt so alone at our caucus…Well, I think a woman in charge is what this country needs to get back on its feet. Clearly anything is better than what we’ve lived through these last 8 years, but the best bet for everyone I truly believe is for Hillary to be our candidate!



    andrea, this kinda goes along with another thread, but I’m curious, why Hillary? From your post it seems you want her to be your candidate simply because she’s a woman. That can’t possible be your only justification. I am eager to find out what it is about each candidate that their supporters respond to.




    i would say, oops, i shouted.. but i knew i was shouting.

    Wouldn’t it be amazing if being a woman was thought of to be an advantage instead of an obstacle to overcome.

    New resident, you want McCain just because he is a republican:)



    Job, are you asking me that or stating it? If it’s a statement, it’s untrue.

    I think the person for the big job (just like for any job), should be the best qualified, regardless of gender or race.

    McCain is pretty liberal and I have stated before that I’m not completely on board.

    I’m curious why people feel strongly about each candidate. I just pointed out that andrea seemed to suggest she was behind Hillary because of the simply fact that she is a woman.

    JoB, let me ask you, why Hillary? What is she going to do for you that has you so on board?



    i have met Hillary Clinton. Once a long time ago before she was anybody’s target. And again after she was first lady and a big target. and i have read her every speech and statement paper starting with her commencement speech. (ok, not every campaign speech.. she has done a lot f them lately) i even hung out in the bathroom with her once when she could still have relevant conversations in bathrooms with other women.

    I know this woman. I know how idealistic she was in her youth. I know how hard she worked to get things done. I know she was willing to be a first lady instead of a candidate if that was what it was going to take to get things accomplished. And i know she found out quickly enough that she couldn’t do it that way. It wasn’t enough to be in a supporting position with a man who considered her his partner.

    i know she has learned from her mistakes. The woman who idealistically tried to craft a compromise on health care has learned she needed to have ratified power to negotiate.

    I know she has had to work harder and be nicer… and that there are very few places she could actually let anyone see that she was the smartest person in the room.

    I know she is willing to work hard. And i know that she sees pattern in the details.. not just a idealized vision. I know that she can actually think on global terms… and still track details.

    I know that she has a proven track record on women’s issues.. not just abortion, but sex slavery, mutilation, home based business, childcare, etc…. And i know that she is willing to defy even her party to use an international platform to promote those issues.

    I know that she has a grasp of how much more cost efficient and productive it is to guarantee education and nutrition to American children and that she will find a way to pay for it.

    There are those who may say that i simply see me in her.. but it’s not true. i would have handed bill his walking papers when he cheated. And i wouldn’t have worked so hard for a party that showed me such disrespect.

    I also see how badly the Republican party has tried to paint her as bitchy, uncooperative, lieing, cheating, without principals, etc…

    why do you think they went so far in attacking a first lady? Who can you think of who was so thoroughly trashed as first lady? They don’t spend money and resources blindly. I think they had a plan.

    Hillary is and was seen early by the Republican party and their system as the first viable female candidate for President… and they have been doing everything they can to make sure we don’t think so.

    They have been doing a great job. Even those who admit that most of the “scandals” aren’t her fault cite them as a reason she isn’t a viable candidate.

    When Charla posted a link to a paper that pointed out the sexist manner that Hillary has been treated, not one man even mentioned the issue or commented in any way. It is easier to say that they don’t support Hillary because she is a bitch than to say they don’t support her because she is a woman.. and they use republican talking points to justify their hatred. The republicans did a great job.

    I sent the same link to my republican brother who said that the writer was a fanatic (a woman) and that although some of it was inappropriate, he didn’t see it as sexist. this is a man who calls me the smartest person he knows… doesn’t stop him from arguing with me or ignoring the obvious though:)

    Anyone the republicans hate that much should get our attention… Why is this woman such a target? What about her is so dangerous to their interests?

    And finally, i would vote for hillary because she is a woman. When i went back to work in my early 20s, i had to get a permission slip signed from the husband i was divorcing for making bill look faithful in order to get a good enough job at a local department store to support my children.

    I have a visceral memory of just what sexual discrimination looks like… and i wish i could say it is gone.

    My daughter who is working on her PhD in enegineering had to fight her professor every step of the way to be able to look at detail in her research project and follow the detail to trends… which she then tested for validity. it was not the established male path to research (choose a result and find data that supports it). she has very nearly quit her PhD because of it.

    She was recently commended by that same professor for her grasp of details and ability to identify trends that weren’t apparent… after her work was requested by an international symposium in china this may and another in japan next year. It will likely win huge awards for her and her professor.

    She does incredibly good work, but she had to fight every step of the way to be allowed to do it.

    I believe that any woman would be true change… a new way of looking at the problems we face.

    I believe that this woman is especially good at doing with policy what my daughter does with soil. I believe the results would speak for themselves.

    So that’s why.

    i know this is an incredibly personal post and an incredibly personal opinion… but you asked and i felt that after holding yours and kayleighs feet to the fire, you deserved as honest an answer from me as you gave.



    Wow, JoB. Impressive. What a lucky girl your daughter is that she has you for a mom. I really, really appreciate you taking the time to go into detail and answer my question.

    It’s funny because I’ve met John McCain. He used to live down the street from me in Phoenix. We shopped at the same grocery store.

    Anyways, thank you again for being honest about your support for your candidate. That’s exactly what I was looking for.



    JoB…I think that what you have said, personal or not, is absolutely right on.

    While I’m reading this (and other) thread(s), I keep thinking about who people voted for 4 years ago, 8 years ago…and why. What did George Bush say that instilled in them the desire to vote for him above all others….what promises did he make that he has fulfilled…what made, and still make, some people to think that he does nothing short of walk on water? And these people have the NERVE to call Hillary shrill and a bitch. Take gender away…take Bill Clinton away (let’s pretend her name is Mary Smith)…and tell me something constructive as to why these things are said about her, and why she should never be president?



    It’s too bad that if you are female and assertive and speak your mind, you are labeled a “bitch”. Believe me, I know.



    and if you were a guy…you’d be…as JoB said…assertive, strong.We still have an uphill fight…



    thanks ladies..

    and house does think i am “assertive” and “strong”… o wait.. that’s too assertive and too strong:) and maybe too opinionated too:)

    or maybe not. who knows.



    And, Job, you forgot, “who cares”



    ::me wonders if JoB and TheHouse didn’t exchange valentines?::



    Lol Erik!!! It’s that love/hate thing, huh? Never know!!!



    erik.. thanks for pointing out to me how thoughtless i was… i should have sent him a valentine..

    anyone living under the smaller west seattle bridge with such colorful companions would surely have appreciated it.

    my fairy godmother ways have certainly deserted me. for shame:)



    i should be nicer to house. i am not setting much of an example with all this ribbing. i think it’s gentle, but he may not.

    my apologies house for singling you out.



    JoB, I honor that, I really do. When pregnant with me, my mom was required by her bosses (a very well known moneyed Seattle family) to enter her job through the back door, because they were embarrased that she was preggo. It’s startling to remember what the climate was like only a generation ago (sorry you had to go through it.)

    This is kinda a threadjack, but I consider myself a second generation feminist. It never feels to me like a very satisfying feminist victory when women succeed on men’s terms, or act as badly as men (sometimes) act. I know a few aggessive women, and I don’t like them much. (That’s OK; they get to live the lives that make sense to them). I dislike aggressive men in equal measure, too, so it’s more of a general value preference on my part.

    So what would a feminist victory be like for me? You know,when my ex-husband said to me, “it’s not your job to cook dinner for me. We both work for a living” it felt like a small victory. When my parents paid for all their kids’ college and saw equal potential in them, regardless of sex. When my grandfather would tell me I could be anything I wanted and I believed him.

    Why is the typical male behavior the one that is so consistently rewarded? Why aren’t social workers, nurses,teachers, and other people who nurture and help others paid CEO level salaries?

    I don’t have the answers, obviously. But it does seem like Hillary doesn’t connect as well with women in my generation (Gen X). Interesting for sure.



    I have been thinking about why women of your generation don’t connect with Hillary more or with the label of women’s libber.

    And i think you nailed it Kayleigh when you said “It never feels to me like a very satisfying feminist victory when women succeed on men’s terms”.

    My daughter said much the same thing.

    In her position, i would have given face value to the male “solution first and work towards it goal” and then gone off and done it my way quietly… while still making him believe i was engaged in his game. I would have done twice the work.. maybe three times the work. He would have been more comfortable and i would have “battled” with him less.

    I like to think i would have ended up in the same spot.. but one has to wonder. She worked like a dog to get where she got and i don’t know if she could have done twice the work to maintain a front and still achieved what she did.

    I admit to feeling massive mom frustration and thinking “what is wrong with these young people… you would never have made it my day” while i was supporting her sometimes daily on the phone.

    I was flat out wrong.

    In my day…that was the only way we could do it. And Hillary comes from my day. You had to literally be better at doing it their way to get ahead.. while still sneaking in your own perspective along the way. I think the duplicity that takes may be at the heart of young women’s lack of comfort with her.

    Your way takes it’s toll too… i know how emotionally draining it was for my daughter to keep fighting to look at things her own way… but you would have never had the chance without our way breaking ground first.

    It is a difficult thing for me even now to just speak my mind.. though my family would tell you differently:) To speak authentically without worrying how it will be heard by male ears is not an easy thing for us.

    I found my voice. I still consider how men will hear it and try to speak in a way that they can hear.. but i don’t think the post above is one of those.. do you? When we speak authentically, it makes most men uneasy. My brother would call that post fanatical:) and he loves me.

    I raised sons. I would like to believe my sons and other women’s sons will change that eventually, but it is a slow process. and in the meantime, an authentic female voice makes men uncomfortable…

    Hillary didn’t find her voice until most young women had stopped listening to her and the media had polarized us all. And that’s too bad. I suspect, had she found it sooner, things might have been different.

    Ah..the land of might have been.

    However, my sons do share parenting, can and do cook and spend a great deal of time actively involved with their children.

    maybe we didn’t do so badly after all for a first giant step:)

    not a first step, mind you. In the Pacific Northwest we owe a lot of our female independence and spirit to rosey the riveter. it’s easy to forget that a lot of our wartime shipbuilding occurred on the west coast and a lot of the women who came here to build ships didn’t go home or back quite back into the kitchen when they were done:)

    and they taught us, their children.. that maybe something else was possible. ok.. so they didn’t dream further than teacher or nurse… but they did dream… while drilling into our heads that marrying and children came first:)

    I think that wartime shipbuilding industry is why you find such feisty maverick women on both coasts. Add in midwest (that’s where a lot of them came from) perseverance (called stubbornness in my family) and it’s quite a combination:)

    Each generation builds on the last.. but doesn’t necessarily honor the last.. and i think that is especially true with women. We have to break so far out of the mold to make progress that we forget about what it took to make us believe we could:)

    I still want us to get there now… with this woman. But if we can’t, then we will have moved closer to that goal. Perhaps next time people will be only uncomfortable with the idea.. not petrified and angry.

    i keep trying to have historical perspective… but inside, i am pissed. And the rage that we should still be fighting to even have a voice is one of the reasons why i think that if Hillry ends up our candidate she has a greater chance of winning than anyone thinks.

    The ballot box is one place where we can speak without having to be concerned what the men around us will think…. the ultimate privacy. and i think that is what frightens the men who run the Republican party.

    Everyone knows you just can’t trust a woman:)



    one last thought for those who may be lurking on this thread… i don’t think it is a question of them versus us… i just think men and women are different and think differently.

    i know that guys know that… i just don’t think most of them see the way we think is valuable and a viable alternate way to look at things yet.

    in my daughter’s case, her professor gets that she has something valuable to contribute because of the “weird” way she thinks.. but has not yet realized that his reluctance to let women work out their own way of thinking may be the reason the department keeps losing female phd candidates.

    it will be easier of the next woman who refuses to compromise.. but not easy.

    It’s not something that can or will change overnight. but it can never change fast enough for those of us living it.



    This is a great thread…I think there are many folks who will vote for a woman because she is a woman and many who will vote against a woman because she is a woman..I remember reading that when women were finally given the vote that would mean no more war..we know that didn’t happen, because, unfortunately, they still went to their menfolk for guidance. (I wish I could find the letter from Boeing in 1949 that my mom received. (I’m paraphrasing) which stated thank you for applying but we don’t hire women for these positions (yes, she was totally qualified.)

    In these historic times, we can take a stance (except those of us who could not causus..stupid system)and vote for the best candidate. Yes, I am for Hillary, but I remember the first couple of years of the her husband’s presidency..he lost the house, things were kind of in shambles)..seems to me that she would have had some on the job training that none of the other candidates have had on how to get things done…I think we’ll have an idea by the end of the day on March 4. It is really great to have all of the options we have this year. And, yes, I believe in stream of consciousness………



    My wishful thinking still wants a Hillary/Barack ticket. I feel like whomever is president next is going to have so much work on their hands fixing things, that hope won’t even have a chance to play out. Hillary has the brains and the experience to accomplish that. Not to mentions the ovaries to make hard choices and not care if she’s popular or liked. People have already formed their opinion on that so she can just go about her business and get to work.

    Meanwhile, Barack could be running around the world using his “charisma” to restore global relationships. All the while gaining experience and knowledge of the job, putting himself in position to take over in 8 years.

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