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April 17, 2008 at 10:22 pm #617717
walfredoMemberJoB- I am mad that Sean Hannity gets to ask his radically extreme right-wing paranoid, lunatic fringe questions during a nationally televised debate. Now, if Sean got to ask these questions directly, any fair minded person would say- well he is so ridicilously biased and nuts that maybe that question is not fair.
But no, not only does he get the opportunity to have his question asked during a national debate. But he gets to have it asked through a “fair journalist” disguise, and have his radical rants injected into the mainstream media, and the general conversation.
This has nothing to do with Hillary, I’m not bashing her. I’ve tried to be fair to her about this debate.
Do you think Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity should get the right to frame the conversation for the democratic debates that are being broadcast on ABC? This is not a candidate issue, this is a big deal…
I said this morning, in a bit of sarcasm that if the Sean Hannity and the National Enquirer hosted this debate it would have had more dignity, and relevance. I had NO IDEA, not in my wildest conspiracy fascination, would I have guessed that in fact- SEAN HANNITY was the person writing questions asked during the debate! It’s insane…
JanS- to your point, Barack consistently and without exception, when asked an inane question tried to stear the conversation to those issues, even when he was asked about Bosnia and Clinton’s gaffe. Clinton consistently, and without exception got right down in the muck and started slinging it around. And she is getting credit to do for coming off more forceful and confident, because she was indeed far more comfortable in this type enviroment. I don’t see how you can say the two candidates were at all similar in response to the debate questions.
April 17, 2008 at 10:29 pm #617718
beachdrivegirlParticipantYou left out the part to where Clinton once again was caught lieing. During the debate, when asked direct questions, she said what she believed people wanted to hearwhen they had numerous recent quotes opposing what she had just said. Now that is nice work.
April 17, 2008 at 10:36 pm #617719
walfredoMemberJoB- to your point, that this is what you should expect if he wins.
This is what we do expect from the Rove-era politics, and this McCain group. Of course it is. Barack today said, last night you got a preview of how this race is going to be run in the fall. They laid it all out in front of you.
It’s actually a great speech, with a great tone:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/gGC5Fd
What bothers me, and many democrats, is not the reality that the republican slime machine exists and is ready to pounce, but instead Clinton’s overwhelming embrace of these politics. The obvious “lessons” she has learned and embraced over the years from this playbook. In truth, it is impossible to distinguish her current campaign and its tactics with those used by Karl Rove and GW the past 8 years.
April 17, 2008 at 10:45 pm #617720
JanSParticipantwalfredo…I was off selling raffle tickets for our fundraiser until just before 9pm, so I caught what was left of the debate after that time. I missed the first part,have only seen bits and pieces of it, so, yes, I’m aware that he seemd very calm, in control, and above board for that part that I did see. I’m simply frustrated that we never get to hear about actual things that need addressing unless the “askers” ask something like..”do you pledge to do so and so” to each one…and then we get..”yes’I’ll pledge to do that”…tell me how…get into the meat and potatoes of it…and make sure you tell me that you ain’t gonna do nuthin’ without the cooperation of congress…that’s what I want. I’m tired of the inane, picayune things going back and forth…she said she’d rather not bake cookies, he associated with so-and-so when he was 8years old. It’s disturbing to many of us – we don’t give a rat’s behind…there are far more important things to discuss than simply trying to impugn your rival with stupid things…
April 17, 2008 at 10:53 pm #617721
beachdrivegirlParticipantIt is very frusturating JanS. That was one thing I defin. did notice myself and it really is frusturating.
April 17, 2008 at 10:54 pm #617722
charlabobParticipantJan, the point is that Obama wasn’t pushing any discussions of inane things. At any time, Clinton could have said, “Why are we talking about this crap?” She didn’t — she jumped on.
I’m not even angry with her–I’m disappointed and sad for what might have been, and what this campaign has become. And, NO, it isn’t something anyone did to her.
It’s going to be over soon. Sooner than June. The pressure is on, from inside and outside the Clinton campaign. It will not linger until June.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/
The Clintons and other DLC folks may complain that Dean doesn’t have standing — they tried desperately, without success, to keep him from being elected. Running hacks against him. The hacks lost. He’s DLC head, he’s right, and the Supers will listen to him.
It will be over soon.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/02/27/new_pennsylvania_poll_shows_sl.html
April 17, 2008 at 10:57 pm #617723
walfredoMemberJanS- I couldn’t agree more. And I couldn’t be more pleased that your message was exactly what Obama talked about all day today. While his opponent championed her “victory” in this critical debate :) One is in touch with voters, and the other is sadly stuck in the politics of old, and completely out of touch…
There is a difference… It isn’t subtle.
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1481
Interesting poll out today… This is over a 15% jump in the past 30 days!
April 17, 2008 at 11:22 pm #617724
walfredoMemberhttp://pol.moveon.org/enoughdistractions/
A petition to ABC News, if anyone else was as dissapointed as I was at there handling of the debate last night…
April 17, 2008 at 11:31 pm #617725
JoBParticipantwalfredo..
i already signed the petition…
i agree that this kind of side show isn’t a debate…
I would point out that my candidate has been the target of this kind of manipulated questioning from the very start of her political campaign…
of course she is more comfortable in that environment. she has had plenty of practice.
The only story today was going to be one of the candidates reaction to that questioning or the questioning itself….
i just figured that was a foregone conclusion.
A real debate would have given democrats airtime…
April 17, 2008 at 11:34 pm #617726
JanSParticipantCharley Gibson needs to stick with the fluff on Good Morning America, or whatever he’s on…and Stephanopolis? well, he was just overjoyed with Charley’s job…no comment on him…:(
April 17, 2008 at 11:45 pm #617727
charlabobParticipantThe next shoe to drop — Obama attended The Million Man March in 1995. He may have been one of the organizers — not surprising, since he was a community organizer on the South Side of Chicago.
Interesting thing about this posting is that it comes from the Jewish Daily Forward and the calm reasoned ideas Obama expressed about the March and his participation.
April 17, 2008 at 11:50 pm #617728
charlabobParticipantAudio file of Hannity feeding questions to Stephanopololis:
http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/AUDIO_Hannity_Feeds_Stephanopoulos_Debate_Question
April 18, 2008 at 12:09 am #617729
JoBParticipantApril 18, 2008 at 12:16 am #617730
charlabobParticipantAre you talking about his participation in the MM march or something else? Non sequiters are not often useful in debates. :-)
April 18, 2008 at 12:27 am #617731
WSMomParticipantOn a more positive note, did you see Michelle Obama on The Colbert Report? The Obama’s are an amazing couple. She even looked presidential!! Stephen Colbert suggested she’s the new “Jackie Kennedy” (she is a beautiful woman, I’m jealous of those long legs).
http://www.comedycentral.com/colbertreport/videos.jhtml?videoId=165957
April 18, 2008 at 12:45 am #617732
JoBParticipantcharla…
To sum up…
i didn’t post it..
i made no value judgments at all.
I think he showed far more foresight as a young man than i would have expected.
and i find that interesting.
i am looking forward to learning more about him.
April 18, 2008 at 6:34 pm #617733
charlabobParticipantBack on topic.
Here’s a report on Michelle Obama’s campaign in Pa. The writer is the person who broke the “story” of Obama’s appearance in San Francisco. She’s a strong Obama supporter and has been traveling with the campaign since Iowa.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/me-and-barack-michelle-ob_b_97155.html
April 18, 2008 at 6:44 pm #617734
charlabobParticipantCandidate trifecta: Thursday night’s Colbert Report had Clinton, John Edwards, and Barack Obama (not together).
Here’s a link to Obama — more if I find them:
http://www.indecision2008.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=165017
April 18, 2008 at 7:37 pm #617735
JanSParticipantcharla…I enjoyed that…first of all, Steven Colbert is the BEST…and wow…what fun that was, and still made the point…thanks..
(they don’t show these things at the pub)
April 19, 2008 at 12:02 am #617736
walfredoMemberhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/celeste-fremon/clinton-slams-democratic_b_97484.html
Out of touch. Unelectable. Did she really take on the largest democratic grassroots organization in the country? One that opposed a terrible war, she authorized. One that was founded for the sole purpose of defending her husband during his impeachment proceedings. One that was directly responsible for the democrats taking back the house and senate. One that is vital to any future efforts to gain seats, and expand/maintain the current majority. She didn’t just do that did she? Elitist? How about a democratic politician that talks down and belittles grassroots movements that have re-built her party…
Oh and just for fun, how about we throw in a blatant lie, taken directly from a previous false republican attack, as our central argument as to why they are to be marginalized.
Excuse me while I puke… I don’t think the bar can go any lower, but she keeps finding a way!
April 19, 2008 at 12:13 am #617737
beachdrivegirlParticipantI had just read that same article and was sitting her debating on whether or not to post it here. Thank you Walfredo for posting it and very well said comments.
April 19, 2008 at 1:11 am #617738
charlabobParticipantmoveon.org was started 10 years ago to defend Bill Clinton from the ridiculous impeachment attacks. The name came from “Censure and move on.”
“MoveOn.org Civic Action was started by Joan Blades and Wes Boyd, two Silicon Valley entrepreneurs. Although neither had experience in politics, they shared deep frustration with the partisan warfare in Washington D.C. and the ridiculous waste of our nation’s focus at the time of the impeachment mess. On September 18th 1998, they launched an online petition to “Censure President Clinton and Move On to Pressing Issues Facing the Nation.” Within days they had hundreds of thousands of individuals signed up, and began looking for ways these voices could be heard. “
April 19, 2008 at 4:27 am #617739
JoBParticipantSorry to get your panties in a bunch…
but she is essentially right about what has happened in the caucuses…
our state caucus was a good example… in caucus she got only 25-30% depending upon the caucus… even tho she was around 50% in the primary… because of an unprecedented number of activists who turned out for Obama.
I am glad to see so many faces.. but his caucus showing is not reflective of the state as a whole…
and the behavior of Obama supporters in my caucus was not in any way respectful of Clinton supporters.
I for one was very disappointed when Move-on.org decided to declare for a candidate that early in the race… and have discontinued donating to them as a result.
And yes, as a move-on member, i am quite aware that they voted…
What i was opposed to is their effort to swing a close primary race prematurely… and i told them so before the results of the vote were published.
and still.. even with the help of move-on.org… Obama couldn’t do what it would take to secure his nomination.
You are all so busy beating your own drum that you have failed to realize that there is are a vast number of democrats who think you are making a huge mistake…
I am still one of them.
April 19, 2008 at 4:45 am #617740
charlabobParticipantHow do you account for the fact that Barack also won the primary in Washington State. I seriously doubt the “thugs” from Move-On.org intimidated people at the polls as well; 45.67 -51.22 percent.
Believe me, JoB, waiting to endorse doesn’t make your candidate look better. In fact, I voted for her second in the original MoveOn ballot — Edwards, of course, was my first choice. Had the election been held later, that would not have been my choice.
I suspect the bob and I weren’t the only ones who cast emotionally satisfying ballots for Clinton, because we couldn’t stand not to vote for the first woman with a chance. (And because she had not, at that point, shown her true colors.) So, if anything, the primary results were skewed in Clinton’s favor.
To answer a question you posed on another thread, I get my information about Clinton, large part, from the horse’s mouth. And from the mouth of her husband and her staff.
Finally, you persist in saying that if he was so good, he’d have had the nomination sewn up by now. You seem to forget that Clinton was the annointed–the all-but-a-shoe-in even 6 months ago. Now, it appears, she’s the last to realize she didn’t get the crown.
April 19, 2008 at 4:58 am #617741
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