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April 15, 2008 at 3:55 am #617692
beachdrivegirlParticipantIn December, Bill made similar points on trade, immigration
“If [Republicans] could cut funding for Medicare, Medicaid, education, and the environment, middle-class Americans would see fewer benefits from their tax dollars, feel more resentful paying taxes, and become even more receptive to their appeals for tax cuts and their strategy of waging campaigns on divisive social and cultural issues like abortion, gay rights, and guns.”
— Bill Clinton, in his 2004 memoirs, My Life, making the same argument as Sen. Barack Obama.
Source: Political Wire.
There really isn’t much difference between Bill’s quote and Obama’s. The key difference is that Obama uses a more active construction “cling” while Bill uses a more passive construction “more receptive to.” But the essential point is exactly, one hundred percent indistinguishable.
Must be just one more example of an issue where Bill and Hillary disagree. Oh wait — but Bill is on the trail falsely pimping the meme. I guess they are just cynical opportunistic hypocrites.
April 15, 2008 at 4:21 am #617693
walfredoMemberYou don’t just have to look at Bill-
“Those of us who have tried to have a career, tried to have an independent life, certainly somebody like myself…you know, I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies and had teas but what I decided to do was fulfill my profession which I entered before my husband was in public life.”
— Hillary Clinton, 1992, dismissing stay-at-home moms
When Clinton made her comments, the conservative media trashed her harshly. Here’s a relatively mild criticism from William Safire (the conservative former NYT columnist):
“The cookies-and-tea stereotype is elitism in action. Even the columnist Ellen Goodman, a grass-roots feminist, was moved to comment: “Ouch.”
Clinton’s comments were indeed dismissive, but the point isn’t that we agree with William Safire. The point is that $109 million later, Hillary Clinton has become William Safire.
But that’s not the issue. The issue is Hillary Clinton’s utter hypocrisy — and her complete embrace of the right-wing’s way of doing politics.
Is there anything she will not say or do?
April 15, 2008 at 7:23 am #617694
JanSParticipantI kinda enjoyed this comment at the end of the story link re: Geoff Davis…
“News from Next Wednesday:
HILLARY POLLUTES OBAMA’S BLUE SKY
This morning at a meet and greet at the Back 40 Restaurant in Decatur, Indiana, Obama commented on the “gorgeous blue sky here in Decatur” and commiserated with locals on their spate of late winter in Decatur.
Meanwhile, Democratic challenger Hillary Clinton, in rainy Harrisburg, Pennsylvania immediately charged Obama with a “blue sky” mentality, preaching “a blue sky program for the future of America,” and pointing to the thunderheads menacing above her, proclaimed, “I am ready to deal with the storms, the lightning, the thunder, that is day-to-day life in America while my opponent is waxing poetic on “blue skies.”
Those attending the event found stickers applied to their bumpers in the parking lot with the epigrammatic proclamation, BLUE SKIES ARE FOR SISSIES.
Obama shot back later in the day :”Nannie, nannie, boo boo!”
Meanwhile in TODAY’s news, Hillary reaches her all-time low of 40% support among Democrats.
As Senator Obama will say so eloquently next Wednesday: NANNY, NANNY, BOO BOO!”
Bitter? who? us? noooooo…that couldn’t possibly be…
elitist? guess it depends on the year, and who’s doin’ the name callin’…ain’t it funny how your words come back to haunt you? Guess it doesn’t really pay to start name callin’, huh…
but I’ll tell ya…Geoff Davis (now there’s a good ‘suthren’ name – lol) isn’t exactly the smartest tack in the package…just a thought…
April 15, 2008 at 4:18 pm #617695
charlabobParticipantInteresting background on the original story about Barack’s speech in San Francisco. Among other things, it shows where this “citizen journalism” thing can go — it was originally broken in huffingtonpost, by an ardent Obama supporter. Full disclosure — Mayhill is the sister of a good friend of ours, but I think I’d be impressed even if I didn’t know her.
April 15, 2008 at 4:29 pm #617696
charlabobParticipantThe Justice Department, under an Obama presidency, will investigate the actions of the Bush regime:
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/attytood/Barack_on_torture.html
Obama teaches *Constitutional* Law–won’t it be refreshing to have a president who pledges to preserve and defend the constitution and actually knows what it says ???
April 15, 2008 at 4:49 pm #617697
JoBParticipantlets see…
Davis, who i have no reason to defend, uses the word boy in what appears to be the context of younger man.. and it is assumed he made a racist remark.
Maybe… he will certainly apologize for one.
Is he an arse.. .. yes… was he being racist arse..? .. who knows.
I mention that the viewers of FOX news are those who are likely to determine the election, and i am called elitist.
i wonder.. is it elitist to assume that those voters are the ones who elected George Bush.. the second time?
I happen to know a few of them.. and many of them are surprisingly well educated upper middle class.. and some… dare i say it.. rich folks?
who is elitist here in their assumptions? I’m not.
I see most of America hugely responsive to FOX advertising.. and i am talking about the news.
As for tarring Hillary with any quote you can find by Bill… last i looked, she was an entirely independent person… they were married, not cloned.
and you might choose a differing quote.
I read that statement.. and i… and i would guess most thinking democrats… agree with Bill and Obama… so what makes you think an intelligent woman like Hillary doesn’t?
I must have missed something you all found significant…
Speaking of FOX advertising.. i see we have resurrected Hillary’s “housewife” remark…
it’s not such a bad remark for any woman to have made about herself.. at the time… when she was defending herself against the charges that she was a working woman… (it is too easy to forget that Hillary was our first first lady with advanced degrees and a career at the time of Bill’s election).
The media had already defined the choices for women.. pursue a career or stay home and be a good mom.
She acknowledged the obvious… and was immediately trashed for putting down women who made a different choice.
Nice buying of the right wing spin…
of course she apologized too.. since being politically correct means we have to apologize for what anyone else thinks our intentions are… in addition to those we may actually have.
As for Hillary’s campaign slogans…i would assume it takes at least some time to formulate a bumper sticker, get it printed and find people to stick it on cars…
a reasonable person would think that perhaps that slogan had more to do with Obama’s continual talk about blue skys and her assumption that things aren’t going to be so easy when hopefully one of them takes office…
Now in all fairness.. i have to tell you all that all i am doing is thinking here..
since i haven’t been listening to the media for nearly a week.. or reading any political blogs.. no one has had the opportunity to instruct me on how i should interpret those remarks..
all i have been able to do is respond to what has been written here…
You might think that leaves me at a disadvantage:->
April 15, 2008 at 5:00 pm #617698
JanSParticipantthe “blue sky” quote above was from some Joe Blow making a comment to an article..I just thought it humorous in the fact that it points out the absurdity of some of the little infights, bickering, DISTRACTIONS of this current dem campaign. I didn’t mean it as truth…and didn’t mean it to impugn Hillary. I was just saying that it amusesd me…and I’m sure that others feel the same way, that there are just too many nit-picky things going on right now. And 4, 8, 12 years down the road, I’m sure people will be pulling out old quotes of Barack Obama’s if he is running for anything (I guess assuming that he didn’t get the nomination this year) Look at how the Repugs, etc bring up his Indonesian schooling in Islam when he was but a young child. I guess ya just gotta be prepared for these things. We all know they will come up time and time again.You don’t miss anything on the internet :)
April 15, 2008 at 5:08 pm #617699
JoBParticipantJanS…
on that we agree…
too much of this is much ado about nothing.. and in my opinion FOX news’s way of distracting us from the real issues…
like how the republicans are pulling the wool over the eyes of the average taxpayer about all those tax cuts…. that’s a point worth reporting.. tho i don’t think anyone will do more than repeat it.
and tax hikes those nasty dems created when they didn’t renew Bush’s expiring tax cuts … that they didn’t bother to make permanent for the wealthy…
oh well.. i am still in the midst of my own tax nightmare…
i know i made charitable contributions last year.. all i have to do is wade through 3 boxes of unfiled misc papers that i haven’t looked at since my move to find them…
talk about procrastination catching up with you:)
worst possible case, i will file without them and then amend later… not something i want to do when they are looking so closely at charitable contributions these days:(
One bright spot.. my office sure is getting cleaned as i look for things… i have already carted out two paper bags full of waste paper…
i bet i get another couple from those boxes:)
April 15, 2008 at 5:16 pm #617700
charlabobParticipantMichelle Obama will be on the Colbert Report tonight — Hillary Clinton will be on Thursday night — big fun :-)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/15/hillary-clinton-to-appear_n_96717.html
April 15, 2008 at 5:22 pm #617701
AnonymousInactiveGeoff Davis is 3 whole years older than Obama. There is no way in hell the *boy* comment was in reference to a younger man. JoB, you of all people, should know how this term has been historically used. Every bit as offensive as the N word, and I can’t believe that no one is outraged.
April 15, 2008 at 5:27 pm #617702
charlabobParticipantThere’s outrage, JT — you just have to look for it. The mainstream media is too busy trying to pump more life into the Obama is Elitist story. Which doesn’t seem to have many legs. As I said before, it’s possible that people are smarter than we knew. :-)
Here’s some evidence that the people of Pennsylvania get it:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/14/pa-voters-divided-over-ob_n_96686.html
Davis apologized very quickly — which proves if you say something indefensible … well, it can’t be defended. Well…usually.
April 15, 2008 at 6:53 pm #617703
JanSParticipantCharla…yes, there’s outrage….and bitterness. And so many reasons why that’s so. Those of us from the south “got” what he was saying…and I’m sorry, but the excuse of “being a colloquial saying” doesn’t cut it with me. Yes, people say “good ol’ boy”….and it’s understood what it means. This was different…..apology accepted, but I doubt that it will change the man. I can guarantee that he’ll use the term again, just not in so a public way.
I will try to watch Colbert..I don’t have Tivo/DVR, so may have to wait for YouTube ;-)
April 15, 2008 at 11:12 pm #617704
JoBParticipantJT..
of course i know that term has historical use..
and i also know that it is used as a dismissive term without racial overtones… referring to “one of their own”.
i am glad he apologized.. especially if he meant it in a racial way…
if we are going to get outraged every time someone makes a potentially racially charged remark about Obama. .. we will be so busy responding to the remarks that we won’t see the real attacks coming…
lets not get distracted.
April 16, 2008 at 4:36 pm #617705
charlabobParticipantClinton rushed out an ad criticizing Obama’s elitism — it featured three outraged Pennsylvanians. Turns out one of them is a Clinton volunteer, registered New Jersey voter, who has lived in New Jersey all his life but “considers his roots to be in Pennsylvania.”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132×5528040
She’s better than this — at least more competent — next time she runs, I hope she runs her own campaign — after she’s divorced Bill and his crew.
April 17, 2008 at 2:18 am #617706
TammiWSMemberDem debates are on at 8pm – be sure to watch.
April 17, 2008 at 2:43 pm #617707
walfredoMemberI would like to congratulate John McCain for an overwhelming victory in last nights debate…
If Sean Hannity and the National Enquirer teamed up to run a debate, it would have had more dignity, and more relevance to this country then last nights debacle. I will never watch ABC News again.
I’m reading some news stories saying it was biased against Obama, I don’t buy that. It was biased against America. It was biased against dialogue, and conversation, and issues. It was a mockery of a sham.
I think the online polls show Obama won the debate simply because he did not stoop to there level, repeatedly calling them out when given another insanely stupid question- that America is at one of its most important junctures in its history, we are in 2 wars, our economy is in collapse, and we have lost our standing abroad… When given an opportunity to chime in his criticism on Senator Clinton he took the high road, and again chastised the media for asking such stupid questions, and insisting on playing soundbits into the ground.
I wasn’t a Clinton fan going in, and did not appreciate her piling on and rolling in the filth with the ABC group. The Weather Underground connection would have been a great time for to pivot off the “he’s scary” talking point, and onto the “these questions are silly, lets focus on something important like how he’s elitist” posture. From my end, she sounded pretty desperate to try to link that connection-“well, I do beleive that you served on the same board at one point in time”. Hillary, is it really a good idea to bring up any looose association?
But the story wasn’t the difference between the two candidates, it wasn’t what ideas they had to fix America’s most critical problems, it wasn’t there reaction to there opponents views, it wasn’t a strategy for Iraq, it wasn’t any of that. It was a joke, and everyone in America was done a disservice by the deplorable job done by ABC News… Well except John McCain.
April 17, 2008 at 2:55 pm #617708
KayleighMemberI watched just clips of it. I was disheartened to see Obama continue to be put through the ringer on manufactured, unimportant issues.
He must have an incredible amount of patience and dignity–honestly, how he has handled this stuff speaks so highly of his character. I wonder if in private times with his very close friends, he vents at the ridiculousness, pettiness, and general mean-spiritedness of the whole campaign process. I sure as heck would.
I think the difference is that Hillary seems to love it, seems to thrive on the drama and competitiveness of it—a born politician to the end. Obama seems to simply endure it.
April 17, 2008 at 3:10 pm #617709
charlabobParticipantThe charla and bob could only get through the first 25 minutes –apparently at the end the audience jeered and booed the hosts. Clinton is obviously desperate. She did, however, finally admit that “YES YES YES…” Obama could get elected. It was the first time she said it, and it was said with a complete lack of charm and grace. He’s said countless times that he thought she could win.
Despite the insanity of ABC’s approach, one thing shone through — Obama is a statesman and a leader and that’s what the United States (and the world) need now.
9500 comments on the ABC blog last night — 95 percent opposed the network’s behavior on the debate.
April 17, 2008 at 3:13 pm #617710
charlabobParticipantDon’t forget — for real political coverage, Clinton will be on Steven Colbert tonight. (Michelle Obama was on Tuesday night.) I think both are available on YouTube or somewhere else online if you don’t get cable.
The best political coverage, hands down, is on Jon Stewart and Colbert. Arianna Huffington really got her start as a commentator in 2000 (?) when she and Al Franken did commentary, in bed together, on the Stewart show.
April 17, 2008 at 4:15 pm #617711
walfredoMemberKayleigh- I agree it was clear that Hillary was more comfortable last night, especially as things progressed. I think what is being perceived as weakness in Obama’s response, is actually humanity. He hasn’t completely lost his soul to this process yet, there is actually still a decent human being in there who is genuinely bothered by where this process has gone…
The moderators are supposed to be like the officials in a basketball game. The first rule is, if the storyline after the game is about you, you did a terrible job. The storyline is supposed to be about the game, the players… You are supposed to let them play and the players should decide the outcome…
April 17, 2008 at 4:30 pm #617712
KayleighMemberWalfredo, totally agree.
I’m a skeptic (even a cynic at times) and I see something sooooooo touching in Obama. I don’t even know how to describe it beyond what you said so well (statesman, humanity, etc.)
(didja see that one of my few heroes, Mr. Bruce Springsteen hisownself, endorsed Obama? YAY!)
April 17, 2008 at 7:29 pm #617713
walfredoMemberhttp://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/17/steph-hannity-audio/
To me, this is absolutely shocking. I don’t care what side you support… ABC’s moderator met with Sean Hannity about what questions to ask, and then repeated the question basically word for word. It was not phrased as, a right-wing nutjob who spends 4 hours per day on radio and tv bashing you and all things democratic wanted me to ask you…
Are we serious? I think Stephanopolis should be fired. Not to mention his absurd conflict of interest being a member of Clinton I’s campaign staff. Forget that, he is a puppet for the most extreme partisan talking head on television and radio…
April 17, 2008 at 8:06 pm #617714
JoBParticipantwalfredo,
what exactly are you upset about? that the questions were asked or that they were asked at a democratic debate?
i didn’t watch the debate and from what i heard on NPR today.. it was a good thing i didn’t…
That wasn’t a debate.. that was a sideshow.
it’s to bad because America really deserves to hear these two candidates debate the issues.
i don’t choose to watch network TV for a reason.. i don’t need talking heads telling me how to think… i just want the news and thankfully today there are a lot of ways to get the news without having to continually consume the media owner’s prejudices along with it… it’s one reason why i come here.
perhaps it’s time Senator Obama got asked the same kinds of questions that Hillary has been asked throughout the campaign… because those questions are going to become the staples of the election this fall… whether we like it or not.
I don’t remember your indignation when Monica (the woman hillary’s husband cheated on her with…) came up as a campaign issue… not even when some reporter posed the question to their daughter.
Is it news to you that the media has been shaping the story all along? Welcome to the real world.
Whether he likes it or not, When Senator Obama chose to limit his message mainly to “phrases of hope” and limit the public’s knowledge of him as much as possible to his own words… he created the climate for these kinds of questions… and that kind of criticism.
Senator Obama has spent a lot of time working… often in very close circumstances… with people who have been at best unwise in some of their choices… and who he now tries to pass of as acquaintances…
That won’t wash under the kind of scrutiny Hillary has endured… and if he wins the nomination… this is what he can expect.
This is what you can expect.
April 17, 2008 at 8:43 pm #617715
JanSParticipantwell, to be fair…Hillary is not above reproach when it comes to rubbing elbows with less than admirable people. It’s ALL a distraction…and I would like both candidates to tell the “askers” in these “debates” (a loose term)…to stop, to ask something important. There are so many issues that are more important to me. The priceof gasoline…going up, up, up, and of course, affecting the truckers, and food costs, etc, etc. etc. Who was it that said “It’s the economy, stupid”? And, yes, the war, and, yes, the rest of the middle east, and, yes, all those other things that affect us little people..insurance, mortages,…ABC dropped the ball…and the candidates allowed them to…it made me sick. I’m frankly fed up with the tactics of both candidates…let’s get real…
April 17, 2008 at 10:17 pm #617716
beachdrivegirlParticipantJoB I suggest you find some way to watch the debate. I dont know what part Walfredo was upset about, but what I was upset about was the fact that they continually tried to air the dirty laundry of both canidates rather than concentraing on more important things like the issues.
If you had taken the time to watch the debate you may have had a different opinion of Obama today because not only did he take the higher road of the two canidates, but during the debate he continually tried to get the questions back on track to what is important the issues.
And when I refer to the higher road, I am refering to the fact, that when asked questions about “rumors” of his opponent he did not stoop to their level and play there game. He stepped above it and took the more admirable position. While Clinton on the other hand did not.
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