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  • #617367

    JoB
    Participant

    I want someone to explain something to me….

    WSmom shared with me that she had decided to back Obama because he had captured the interest in politics and excitement of her child.

    There is a female democratic senator who said much the same thing…

    And then in Newsweek i read a piece by the son of Joanne Atler.. a real life hero for breaking the gender barrier in chicago politics… which nearly concludes with this:

    “When my two sisters became active Obama volunteers and her granddaughters as well as grandsons grew excited about politics for the first time, my mother began to think about the contest in a new way. The next president was for them, not her, she reasoned. Slowly idealism edged identity.”

    the general philosophy behind all this seems to be that idealism trumps all else in politics…

    (i have chosen to let the idea that the only reason to support Hillary is gender slip past with only a mention).

    This reads too much like a song inspiration for me.. What the world needs now…. is idealism?

    I know that those of us who are my age would love to put politics and reality on the back burner right now.. this is not the world we thought our idealism would lead us to…

    and quite frankly.. it didn’t work out so well the first time… other than ending the war in Vietnam and watching Richard Nixon dig himself deeper and deeper into what really should have been criminal charges… life didn’t take and idealistic turn…

    as a nation, we seemed to brush ourselves off.. say we were done with that… we got our gestures.. and went back to business as usual.

    Affluent blacks and women did gain a lot from our idealism… and we have made progress as a nation in some areas…

    but we obviously were not done with sensless war or with the underground war against women, blacks, immigrants, the poor .. in other words.. anyone in our society who wasn’t white, male and well educated… oh.. and affluent.

    We have allowed our government to make a mess of things… Our economy is in trouble. Our environment is in trouble. Our health care industry now provides us marginal health at maximum prices. We are at war.

    I am all for idealism.. but wouldn’t it be good to actually straighten out a few of these problems first.. before we hand the torch on to our unsuspecting children and grandchildren? … who idealists that they are… think they will do a better job than we did.

    Somehow, this seems wrong to me.

    #617368

    JoB
    Participant

    sorry bout the double post.. it told me there was an error in posting.. so i reposted.

    #617369

    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I recently asked my mom who she thought she would vote for this fall (she’s Republican, but has voted Democrat before). She said that she doesn’t know yet because she doesn’t feel that she really KNOWS any of the candidates. Like who they really are and how they really think and feel.

    As far as Obama, I think Jeremiah Wright really ruined it for him. If you really want to know someone and what they truly believe, look at what they believe in. I feel that Obama’s closeness to his pastor underscores his record. It raises questions about Obama’s beliefs about his country.

    #617370

    Anonymous
    Inactive

    What did you think of his speech today?

    #617371

    Anonymous
    Inactive

    JT – Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to watch the speech and the sound on my laptop is not working. I’ve been reading about it, though.

    From what I can tell, the speech was excellent, but missed all the important points. I think Obama speaks very well (his speeches are drafted very well, I should say), but he is missing the mark. I think he will continue to hide behind his eloquence and hope that no one will notice that he doesn’t address the important things.

    From what I understand, the speech was primarily about the divide between black and white America. This is only one tiny issue when it comes to Jeremiah Wright and everything he said about America (America created AIDS, for heaven’s sake!)

    And to not come down on Jeremiah Wright for fear of coming down on the entire black community is cowardly to me.

    #617372

    CH
    Member

    the entire speech can be read here if anyone feels like reading it and deciding for themselves whether it hit the mark or not.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/18/obama-race-speech-read-t_n_92077.html

    #617373

    Trick
    Participant

    *steps up on soapbox*

    I thought his speech was one of the most candid, sincere moments describing the difficulties and struggles race still plays in our lives.

    And this came from a politician…Whoa!

    I can recount many times I’ve been around people close to me that have made “questionable” comments and failed to respond. Sometimes I have, and other times I brush it off due to various reasons such as “generational gaps” or plain ignorance.

    Throw a stone at me then….

    I like that he addressed it eloquently,respectively and directly.

    It’s refreshing considering the last 6 yrs of denial from the current administration.

    #617374

    charlabob
    Participant

    Thanks for the link to the written version, CH.

    In some ways, it’s more effective as reading, because you won’t be swayed, either way, by his voice. Rachel Maddow (Air America Radio) said he seemed to consciously tone down his normal fiery rhetoric and that it’s more powerful reading.

    If you read about the Tuskeegee medical experiments on poor black men in Alabama, you can see why some people might be suspicious of the ancestry of Aids: http://www.infoplease.com/spot/bhmtuskegee1.html. Doesn’t make the Aids accusation true — it does make it plausible.

    People who would not ever have voted for Obama can use the words of his minister as an excuse. People who were looking for a reason not to vote for him can use the words of his minister as an excuse. There’s nothing he could have said that would have swayed them.

    So, instead, he used the occasion of this speech to say some things that needed to be said. A lot more people were listening than would under different circumstances. It was an exceptionally brave thing to do. Maybe it will make a difference. If it does, new coalitions can be formed and a new American revolution can take place.

    c

    #617375

    Anonymous
    Inactive

    NR, I’m sure no pun was intended with (America created AIDS, for heaven’s sake!), but speaking of heaven…I can’t count how many times I’ve heard from some christians that AIDS is god’s answer to homosexuality. Every bit as offensive.

    The speech standing on it’s own was good and many of the points needed to be made, however, how it plays out as a political act and an answer to critics remains to be seen. Using you for an example, and that it didn’t sway your opinion of him is interesting and I wonder how others feel.

    #617376

    CH
    Member

    the speech is on CSPAN (comcast 24) right now and will supposedly be on again at 10:05

    #617377

    Anonymous
    Inactive

    CH – Thank you for that info! I plan to either read or watch the speech with my own eyes and ears.

    JT – Yes. The “AIDS is God’s answer to homosexuality” is extremely offensive to me as well.

    #617378

    WSMom
    Member

    http://my.barackobama.com/hisownwords

    Here a link to the entire speech (video and text). I think his speech was courageous and very personal. I like Barak Obama and I believe he will do good things for our country.

    #617379

    JanS
    Participant

    hi, new res…you said…” It raises questions about Obama’s beliefs about his country.” So…tell me..what questions does it raise for you? What do YOU feel his real beliefs about his country are…?

    #617380

    JanS
    Participant

    FWIW…Barack Obama wrote this speech himself last night…no speech writers…

    #617381

    JanS
    Participant

    New Res…..you said “It raises questions about Obama’s beliefs about his country” So…a question…what questions has this raised for you? And, in your opinion, what do you think are Barack Obama’s motives for running for president..if this raises questions about his beliefs about his country?

    I think I posted on another thread…FWIW, Barack Obama wrote this speech last night, by himself. There were no speech writers present, it’s been reported.

    #617382

    JoB
    Participant

    i just read the speech.. and i have to say it is one of the better speeches i have heard on this subject…

    but.. a couple of small things bother me…

    His pastor’s extremism wasn’t limited to his remarks.. this church gave Farrakon a lifetime achievement award… And his extremism isn’t occasional. And his is hateful extremism pointed at jews, whites and anybody else he doens’t like that day.

    The other is that Obama talks about those who called for Ferraro’s head as tho that hadn’t been him doing the calling. And like what she said is equal to what his pastor had to say.

    He is the one who demanded her removal and her remarks don’t come close to what His pastor had to say.

    As for his campaign being a call to understanding between blacks and whites… not really… he talks a good talk but i haven’t seen the walk.

    I still wish this man had honored his mother more and tried to become his father less.

    #617383

    beachdrivegirl
    Participant

    I finally got a chance to sit down and do what I like best…read in depth not only the blog but also the latest in the Clinton/Obama/McCain battle and i have to say I was quite impressed with his speech today. In fact, I was so impressed, I had to make another donation.

    #617384

    JoB
    Participant

    beachdrivegirl.. good for you.

    #617385

    TheHouse
    Member

    Sen. Obama gave an absolutly brilliant speech this morning. The speech addresses many different groups and goes through a mini “history” of the United States. I’m very glad that he directly answered the question as to why he associates with Jeremiah Wright and the fact that he condems Jeremiah Wrights comments “Damning the United States”.

    Ignoring the fact that I am politically against almost everything that Obama stands for (which he doesn’t seem to discuss much), what logical person would vote or contribute money to someone that wants to be Commander in Chief and still assosiates himself with a man that makes Anti-U.S. and racially charged comments?

    I don’t give a rats ass if my Mom and Dad denounce the U.S. publically, I would immediately get on TV and tell the world that they’re insane and would disassociate myself with them in any way, shape or form. At the very least, I would consider their relationship a conflict of interest and in it’s most severe interpertation Obama could be considered a traitor.

    I might also add that Sen. Obama called for the firing of Don Imus after he called a college basketball team “nappy headed Hos”….sounds like Obama is being a bit more leniant with his ol’ pastor.

    #617386

    JanS
    Participant

    Hi…this is the mugwump here….I’m trying to figure out why so many, despite what he says, still believe he’s being disingenuous. I just don’t get it. He has distanced himself completely from Rev. Wright…he’s condemned the speeches, the actions,of Louis Farrakhan. The speech was one of the best I’ve heard in a long time…yet for many it wasn’t good enough. Seems like nothing will be good enough..ever.

    I didn’t like what Ms. Ferraro said, and Hillary distanced herself from her and what she said. I take her at her word, and don’t believe that she did it because she “had too” because of people clamoring. I give Mr. Obama the same benefit of the doubt…I take them both at face value. Guess I’m in the minority here…. I still haven’t made up my mind…I could vote for either one. But I’m seeing more and more that whatever the problem is in this election year (Mr. McCain not withstanding), everything is Mr. Obama’s fault (i.e. “they should be apologizing to me”), no matter who caused the problem or said the wrong thing. None of the candidates have lily white pasts…

    Barack Obama did not make those sermons…he did not give any awards to Louis Farrakhan…let’s get that straight..no matter how close he was to the Rev. Wright…it does not mean that Barack Obama believed and agreed with all that was said…and it does not mean that he’s being dishonest.

    #617387

    JoB
    Participant

    JanS…

    belonging to the church does not make him dishonest.

    trying to paint his preacher as a good man who just gets a little overzealous at times does.

    His preacher did not advocate violence towards white people..

    but he does paint Obama and his candidacy with a very black brush… the same brush Obama makes a lot of noise about anyone else using.

    Obama is right.. his preacher isn’t that different form other charismatic black preachers across America…

    but his obvious prejudice against a government he feels hasn’t done enough for his people has influenced Obama’s wife enough that she felt comfortable parroting some of his rhetoric.

    That this is occurring across America doesn’t make it any more ok than the same type of bigotry.. because don’t kid yourself, it is bigotry… in any other church in America. And Obama has been quick to stand up against bigotry towards blacks in the past.

    Obama’s saying we should all forgive, forget and move on when he has not been willing to do the same in the past is also dishonest.

    He is a politician and if he wanted to distance himself from Mr Farrakon.. the time was when his pastor chose to give the man an award.

    He chose not to do so… probably because he wants that black vote he says he is not after.

    He has been treading a very fine line… it’s a big gamble… and he might just get away with it… but don’t kid yourself.. it’s a choice.

    he is in an enviable position as a candidate… the only voice talking about him has been his own.. so America feels like they know him… but all they really know is the story he chose to tell.

    And it is the story of a man looking for his black identity… or did everyone miss that?

    and last.. there you go again.. quoting Obama when he equates Geraldine Ferraro.. at worst.. saying that he is getting a huge percentage of the black vote because of his race… with his Pastor fuming against America and making decidedly bigotted remarks about Hillary Clinton…

    Not so much.

    #617388

    Kayleigh
    Member

    Once again, the right wing plays its constituency—and apprently much of America—like a fiddle. That pastor video pushes all the right buttons, doesn’t it? Fear of black churches, knee-jerk ‘patriotism’, fear of religion, fear of black culture, illogical guilt-by-association, etc. Even my parents called to ask me about it in horror (both old-school progressives).

    Another brilliant move, and now McCain leads both Obama and Clinton. This election should have belonged to the Democrats with little effort.

    Obama is a great man, but I knew people would find a way to make him look bad. And Hillary helped the progress along.

    Not proud to be a Democrat today.

    #617389

    beachdrivegirl
    Participant

    Well said Jan S… It is interesting to me that moer crap hasnt come out about things McCain has said out of his own mouth. (Yes Quotes… they are pretty easily found on the internet..)Obama isnt evens speaking these things and he is being judged.

    #617390

    JoB
    Participant

    If you set yourself up as self righteous.. you set yourself up for that kind of fall…

    Obama has often pointed the finger at others… it doesn’t work to sputter in indignation when it is pointed at you.

    As for McCain. there is still plenty of time to campaign against him.

    And still plenty to say.

    #617391

    JoB
    Participant

    Ladies.. don’t pay attention to the polls. the polls and the pollsters have been wrong so far in the democratic election…

    a lot of the polls are run by the same machines that run your nightly news…

    If you want to know who McCain really is.. read the McCain thread…

    which i don’t think house will be doing soon:)

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