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March 7, 2011 at 9:36 pm #716469
JoBParticipantTHANK YOU DOBRO
DP.. rephrase this as a contest if you like
i don’t see it that way.
What i do see is that there is a fundamental backlash to Christianity inspired by some of the excesses of some fundamental Christians who seem to have focused on an arcane set of rules and forgotten the practice of Christianity.
I don’t like being tarred with their brush simply because i admit to being a christian…
any more than other Americans like being tarred for being terrorists simply because they practice the Muslim faith.
MarAngello…
My name is Joanne Brayden
and I have already visited Mars Hill Church.
They wouldn’t be happy to see me come back.
“Christianity makes people better, but that is the side effect”
You do realize that the thing that sets Christianity apart from other religions that recognize the Old Testament is the New Testament don’t you?
You know..
the part of the Bible that talks about all that good person stuff…
March 8, 2011 at 2:12 am #716470
dawsonctParticipantJanS, there is also No Religion, and we need to be respectful of THAT, as well.
—
Personally Mark, if buying whatever you are selling requires I spend eternity with you and your ilk,
I’ll pass.
March 8, 2011 at 3:01 am #716471
dobroParticipantHey MA-
How much do they pay you to do online shilling for Mars Hill? Do you have other screen names on other forums to spread your oh so holy word?
I agree with dawsonct- if buying your swill about Xtianity puts me with Xtians like you that think police killing woodcarvers holding Swiss army knives is cool- get my handbasket ready baby, I’m goin’ down!!
March 8, 2011 at 3:08 am #716472
Genesee HillParticipantMarch 8, 2011 at 3:53 am #716473
ZenguyParticipantI already know my handbasket is headed to Palm Springs.
March 8, 2011 at 4:52 am #716474
KenParticipantFor those who wish some scholarly research to wash down this heapin helpin of theofascist hogwash up thread…
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://candst.tripod.com/toc.htm#study
Look for the sections devoted to debunking the lies of Barton and Federer (and those who have cited them as if they had ever seen a quote they could not mangle or twist with ellipses.)
extensive research debunking Beckerheads and others.
Bob Altemeyer’s – The Authoritarians
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/
Social scientist explains why most rightwingers are authoritarian bent and why nearly all evangelicals are authoritarian followers. Experiments and results indicate why this is not something we want to encourage.
Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty
http://www.bjconline.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4098&Itemid=112
This is an example of the doctrines accepted by nearly all churches in the US until the beginning of the late 70’s hijacking of mainstream churches by calvinist and apocalyptic fundies, bibolitors and biblical literalist. Pentecostals (known then as holy rollers) were already barking mad.
And in other news: The “Republican War on Science” will be stoking up its train to crazytown in preparation for 2012 elections.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/27/magazine/27FOB-WWLN-t.html?_r=1
March 8, 2011 at 5:05 am #716475
JanSParticipantdawsonCT…you are so right. There is the choice of no religion, which is different than the choice of no G-d. As far as I’m concerned, it’s private for each of us.
March 8, 2011 at 5:14 am #716476
Genesee HillParticipantMarch 8, 2011 at 5:02 pm #716477
CaitParticipantWhile I am NO fan of Mars Hill by ANY means, us jumping on Mark’s back once we find out what his “flavor of Jesus” is, is the reason why Jan didn’t want to “self-proclaim” her religion. Take that to heart, Mark.
Mark, you are barking up the wrong tree and frankly I am embarrassed for you. If I had the spare time that you clearly do to be posting all this on here, I would go to every school I possibly could and preach the doctrine of Pastafarianism. Hate to tell you, but since I am half-ways eloquent, well-educated and I have a friendly face and am GREAT with kids, I bet even your kids would come home asking some questions… That’s how it works.
With kids, they believe in whatever shiny thing comes to them first and it’s hard to get them off of it. What you have to realize is in 1st grade, these fundys are getting to some of these kids before their parents may be comfortable with talking about religion with them. That’s not a “win” for you – it’s just plain sneaky and preying on what makes children innocent and curious. Especially if you are presenting them with heaven and hell type of scenarios. That’s an easy win, and one that parents with differing views might find invasive, presumptive, untrue and MAY cause them unnecessary strife at home when kids start asking “But mom, if you aren’t one of these people that talked to me today, aren’t you going to hell?” The thought of that disgusts and scares me, as it should you. If it doesn’t, let me come talk to your kid on their 4th birthday about the ridiculousness of Mars Hill’s doctrine and how some of it would make you believe that domestic violence is perfectly fine.
The sword cuts both ways, pal. I could convince a kid of dang near anything if I wanted to but I would never even dream of doing so or even suggesting something so personal to my kid and passing it off as fact. Until they are old enough to think for themselves and argue with me, I would never even suggest that they attend church, much less yours.
April 1, 2011 at 7:12 am #716478
ShakespeareMemberSo when the educational system ram their “faith” based theories of evolution down our kids throat until they “believe” their ancestors swam around in some primordial soup – well, that’s not brainwashing or recruiting is it? That’s the “faith” we want our kids growing up believing isn’t it? So we have two options: primordial soup or all-supreme being…both of which require faith
April 1, 2011 at 7:35 am #716479
dobroParticipant“primordial soup or all-supreme being.”
False choice. How about theories based on evidence and science vs. fairy tales? I’d prefer my children grow up knowing how to evaluate facts, evidence, and postulations using critical thinking skills rather than believing in fairy tales and old white men sitting on clouds throwing thunderbolts.
And I’d like my schools to teach those critical thinking skills. For fairy tales you can take your kids to the church of your choice. Please keep that cr*p out of the schools.
April 1, 2011 at 1:07 pm #716480
KenParticipant“Those who cavalierly reject the Theory of Evolution, as not adequately supported by facts, seem quite to forget that their own theory is supported by no facts at all.”
–Herbert Spencer: Nineteenth-century English social scientist
The Discovery Institute creationists are the most politically well-connected creationists with whom we have had to deal. This is what makes ID a significant and dangerous phase in the history of American creationism. Their attack on evolution symbolizes their contempt for public education, modern science, and ultimately the Enlightenment ideals on which American constitutional democracy is based. The Wedge Document clearly shows that ID creationists want to overthrow secular culture and public policy, to which the only alternative is some type of theocracy.
— Dr. Barbara Carroll, coauthor of Creationism’s Trojan Horse:
The Wedge of Intelligent Design
And to Seattle own shame: From the Discovery Institutes professional liars.
April 1, 2011 at 5:18 pm #716481
JoBParticipantApril 2, 2011 at 5:57 pm #716482
jaydMemberI’m pretty late to the party, but I definitely saw the mars hill affiliation coming a mile away. They’re right in the midst (or forefront, even) of this modern Calvinistic movement. Sad to see what they’ve turned Jesus into, there…
April 2, 2011 at 6:46 pm #716483
TammiWSMemberIsnt the name of the pastor at Mars named Mark?
Two weeks ago two men knocked and knocked and rang and rang at my door. I work from home and was on a call so put down the phone, opened the door and pointed to my No Solicitors sign. He told me “he wasnt soliciting me” just trying to provide me information about god and being saved. When I told him to get off my porch and never come back he pushed open my door – no lie – and began to preach. I pushed him out and slammed the door in his face.
Lo and behold, he’s back this week and put a note on my door telling me “you are loved”. Its these folks and the Marks of the world that turn everyone off to their message.
BTW Jan, I too had someone worry for my ‘save-worthiness’. Stunning.
The funny thing about this setup is that no matter what you do to lead a sinless life it wont work. You’re human. Thats the cosmic joke on fundamentalists – never be good enough and anything less makes you ‘bad and evil’. I’d sure hate to live in that space my whole life. I’m with Jan – do good, dont lie, treat others well, live with integrity and I’ll do just fine.
Worry about your life, I’ll worry about mine. Period.
April 2, 2011 at 11:53 pm #716484
JoBParticipantTammiWS
Is that who was in my neighborhood this morning?
I saw a group congregating and pointing on the corner as i left to visit a hospitalized friend this morning.
they would have to ignore the dog warning signs on my gate to get to my door…
but if they ignored the signs and pulled the same stunt your “savior” pulled
they will find themselves confronted with the two little reasons for that sign.
i wonder if they can run that fast?
I’ve never met anyone who could..
but i am guessing they would be highly motivated ;->
April 3, 2011 at 12:16 am #716485
anonymeParticipantThey were also in Arbor Heights this morning, although they looked more like the usual Jehovah’s Witnesses to me. They actually stopped coming to my door after I told them (truthfully) that I’m an atheist. When I spoke the “A” word, they recoiled in horror as if I’d just sprouted cloven hooves on the spot.
If the Mars Hill dude tries pulling that stunt at my house, I have a handy little sledgehammer next to the door that should take care of the problem.
April 3, 2011 at 1:01 am #716486
JanSParticipantI’ve been wondering what else I could use my cane for ;-)
April 3, 2011 at 4:47 am #716487
miwsParticipantApril 3, 2011 at 6:07 am #716488
ShakespeareMemberdobro says: “….How about theories based on evidence and science vs. fairy tales?……”
Your arbitrarily presupposing that the evolutionary scientists’ premise for analysis and interpretation of scientific data is the only viable interpretation and the only reasonable explanation for the existence of all things.
Using the terms “evidence” and “science” to explain such close-mindedness is unbecoming at best and is itself fairy-tale reasoning.
dobro says: “……I’d prefer my children grow up knowing how to evaluate facts, evidence, and postulations using critical thinking skills rather than believing in fairy tales and old white men sitting on clouds throwing thunderbolts….”
How can they grow up knowing how to evaluate facts, evidence and postulations without examining ALL explanations or being exposed to all world-views? Athiests are so hell-bent (no pun intended) on making sure these christian children in the public school system are exposed to alternative thinking (ie: evolution), but why can your children be exposed to the creationist world-view? The truth will never run from a lie!
dobro says: “……And I’d like my schools to teach those critical thinking skills. For fairy tales you can take your kids to the church of your choice. Please keep that cr*p out of the schools….”
I wish your schools would teach critical thinking skills, unfortunately without allowing our children to be exposed to ALL possible explanations for life is to deny them the chance to acquire such skills.
April 3, 2011 at 7:34 am #716489
dobroParticipant“Your arbitrarily presupposing that the evolutionary scientists’ premise for analysis and interpretation of scientific data is the only viable interpretation and the only reasonable explanation for the existence of all things.”
No, I’m saying there’s a difference between religous fairy tales and the scientific method. I also rejected your false choice between your two presented ways of seeing things and now I reject it again. There are more than two sides to many stories.
“Using the terms “evidence” and “science” to explain such close-mindedness is unbecoming at best and is itself fairy-tale reasoning.”
This makes no sense at all so we;ll move on to your next fact-free assertion.
“How can they grow up knowing how to evaluate facts, evidence and postulations without examining ALL explanations or being exposed to all world-views? Athiests are so hell-bent (no pun intended) on making sure these christian children in the public school system are exposed to alternative thinking (ie: evolution), but why can your children be exposed to the creationist world-view? The truth will never run from a lie!”
A couple of things…have you been “exposed to all world views”? Of course you haven’t and most people haven’t. Critical thinking means being able to look at evidence and evaluate its veracity. We’re talking about one way of looking at things that has absolutely no facts on its side (the fairy tale theory) and another that has many years of rigorous scientific evidence to bolster its hypothesis.BTW, evolution is only considered “alternative thinking” by people who have no grasp of science. The “creationist world view” is a fairy tale with no credibility at all. How about this for a solution…you take your kids to any church of your choice and teach them any kind of fairy stories you wish-nobody’s stopping you, but in schools we teach kids about math, science, reading, and history. you know, facts, stuff you don’t take on faith.
April 3, 2011 at 7:37 pm #716490
JoBParticipantShakespeare…
again…
if you have to take it on faith
it isn’t science…
science requires independent validation based on evidence…
the evidence is there
whether you like the conclusions or not
April 3, 2011 at 7:45 pm #716491
charlabobParticipantSorry Shakespeare (does the real shakespeare festival know you’re tainting their reputation). Critical thinking was run out of many schools in the east in the mid-nineties because such thinking frequently resulted in such heresy as atheism and membership in the democratIC party.
Telling the door to door preachers that you’re a Jew (which I am) and that you, personally, hold them responsible for the Holocaust (I don’t) works too. I think they put a mark on my door like the hobos of the 30’s.
April 3, 2011 at 11:04 pm #716492
JoBParticipantif we could figure out what the mark is we could save ourselves a lot of grief…
or maybe just keep a fundy from being bitten because they failed reading comprehension
Warning… Security Dogs on Duty…
April 4, 2011 at 12:26 am #716493
dhgParticipantI find it disturbing that creationist argue their viewpoint as somehow SCIENTIFICALLY valid. There is no scientific evidence supporting a myth but plenty supporting evolution. Thus, we teach evolution in the schools, the myths can wait until Sunday when you can expose your kids to whatever you want.
Regarding people at the door: The guy who came to our house on Saturday started on his spiel about being in a jobs program where they must go out and practice speaking door to door. I know this story, it ends with magazine subscriptions. I cut him off, said I was familiar with the line and no thank you. He had no Seattle tag around his neck which means what he’s doing is illegal but I did not call the police.
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