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August 29, 2008 at 10:26 pm #635887
Tonya42Member“ RS You can hardly call someone’s ideas “radical” if they are those of a majority of the population. If you want real radical policies, try the Communists (cpusa.org) or the Green Party (gp.org), they’ll hook you up with some non-mainstream ideas for comparison.”
LOL!!! And is it just a coincidence that those party’s support your candidate? What I am saying about Obama is the truth and should not be offensive to you, yet you feel the need to deny and defend, why is that?
“charlabob the problem with all this “American(sic)” values stuff, as I suspect Tonya knows, is that when people are polled about specific issues, such as abortion, subsidised child care, and even the dread “socialized medicine” they favor the progressive side. By a lot.â€
In Liberal pockets I have no doubt, but in middle America, you are wrong. Hell, in Spokane you’d be wrong!
“charlabob This year, for the first time, they don’t even cringe at the word “socialism.”
Yes most people to the right of Lenin are educated enough to know that socialism is a failed policy in theory and fact. I cringe at the sheer ignorance of those who don’t know that.
JoB “That’s when you tar someone with their own brush.. not the brush of anyone you can find who ever came in contact with them.â€
JoB, this is not a guilt by association situation. Obama did not brush up against the man while walking down LakeShore Drive, as I pointed out, this was an intentional long term eyes wide open relationship – that is fact.
“JoB oh. and a basic lack of understanding of the mid-west values of the grandparents who actually raised Barak Obama.â€
I lived there for eight years, Chicago, well Lake Forest which is a suburb so I am fully aware of the “mid-west†values as you say however truth be known they prefer to be called “central Americans†LOL! It’s true!
So JoB to make an even provisional connection between my belief system and that of Mike Hukabee, well let’s just say your slip is showing.
Please don’t take my words as insults, they are not meant that way but I believe what I believe and I do my best to back it up, I enjoy this very much. I have a diverse background and I enjoy a good debate. I notice that some of the more ignorant people here call people names like “repugs” and what not, how does this help your argument when it highlights your inability to discuss the issue rationally and without stooping to insults?
August 29, 2008 at 10:28 pm #635888
HPMemberunfortunatly i know a couple of people who have had multiple abortions and had them paid by getting a medical coupon from dshs, i have a good friend who is a case worker for dshs and they pass out medical coupons for abortions like tickets to a sporting event. so sad.. just for clarification i do not believe government should interfere in a womans right to choose but maybe a 3 strikes deal of sorts so this hainous method of birthcontrol is not an option, sterilization after a certain number of abortions? (i know that is extreme i am really just trying to make a point with that) or mandatory depo shots for repeat offenders. And what NR said about teaching our young girls self respect and self confidence just to start, is something we can do at home.
August 29, 2008 at 10:30 pm #635889
JanSParticipantwe are not “ignorant” as you’re so fond of saying…we just don’t see eye to eye with you. I take offense at that, just as NR takes offense at some things said to her. Who, may I ask, died, and made you the spokesperson for everything that’s “truthful”? It’s your opinion, and nothing else. You want to be respected on here, please respect others yourself. Thanks.
August 29, 2008 at 10:31 pm #635890
AnonymousInactiveThanks for your post, Tonya! I know that I appreciate your opinion and I know that others (even some liberals here) do as well.
I thought this was interesting in regards to the convention:
-Over the first two days and approximately 100 speakers, the word abortion was uttered by only two speakers. Even Cecile Richards, president of Planned Parenthood, made only one passing reference to “a woman’s right to choose.”
August 29, 2008 at 10:42 pm #635891
JanSParticipantNR, I guess what I am saying is..I don’t want a man dictating to me what I can and cannot do with my body, nor to my daughter. Yes, my daughter, much older than yours, is intelligent in her approach to sexual conduct. But…if something were to ever happen, I want her to at least have the choice. McCain and Palin both want to take that choice away.Period. I never questioned your parenting skills. I would never do that. It’s not my place to even consider judging you on that..or judging you at all on anything, for that matter. I guess I truly am vague about what you like so much in Mr. McCain that you want him to be the leader of this country (besides that you’re a republican). You’re still an intelligent thinker and that trumps party every time in my book. I don’t vote for whoever JUST because I’m a democrat…I have to know that somehow my candidate and I are on the same page. And the pro-choice issue is up there at the top of the page for me, along with a few other things. I simply couldn’t back someone who was so anti-choice as these two people.
August 29, 2008 at 10:50 pm #635892
Tonya42MemberJanS
Member
we are not “ignorant” as you’re so fond of saying…we just don’t see eye to eye with you. I take offense at that, just as NR takes offense at some things said to her. Who, may I ask, died, and made you the spokesperson for everything that’s “truthful”? It’s your opinion, and nothing else. You want to be respected on here, please respect others yourself. Thanks.
JanS, are you the one who calls people “repugs”? If that is so and you do, then you are in no position to demand respect. Speak intelligently withholding your insecurity by using names like that and you will get all the respect you deserve. You’re welcome.
August 29, 2008 at 10:53 pm #635893
charlabobParticipantNo, she is not the person who calls you Repugs — I am.
August 29, 2008 at 10:54 pm #635894
JoBParticipantNew Resident…
i didn’t tell you what you should think or how you should raise your daughter.
but i did tell you what the consequences of your political beliefs could be to your daughter…
if you don’t believe that’t true.. you should take a good look at your dream team. McCain now answers the question of when the legal right to life begins as conception.. and Palin is militantly anti abortion and anti birth control.
If you think any benefit you can get from them politically outweighs your daughter’s future options, that is of course your choice.
But i do have the right to tell you that is not a choice that i believe any woman should make for her child.. having seen the consequences of those choices firsthand.
August 29, 2008 at 10:59 pm #635895
islanddwellerMemberThanks NR for bringing it back on topic. I, for one, appreciate that.
August 29, 2008 at 11:04 pm #635896
AnonymousInactiveJoB – How could you possibly know that I do not know, first hand, what the consequences are?
You are assuming that I have no knowledge or experience relating to this topic and, therefore, lack the intelligence to discuss it or to have formed my own opinion on it. If that is not your intention, I apologize, but that is the way it sounds to me.
I understand the Republican thinking of overturning Roe vs. Wade, but are you suggesting, based on Palin’s beliefs, that a ban on birth control is forthcoming? That seems a little extreme.
Nothing is more important to me than my own daughter, and I would appreciate that you refrain from suggesting otherwise:
“If you think any benefit you can get from them politically outweighs your daughter’s future options, that is of course your choice.” – JoB
(in case it’s not clear)
August 29, 2008 at 11:04 pm #635897
AnonymousInactiveAugust 29, 2008 at 11:06 pm #635898
JoBParticipantTonya,
I have tried, but it looks like i can’t have intelligent conversation with you.
apparantly, according to your belief system… if someone is a dinner guest at someone else’s house and that person commits or has committed some offense, then they are responsible for that person’s offense..
that is a clear case of tarring someone for someone else’s crime.. in the 50s that was called being a fellow traveler… and people lost their livelihood and their homes because of just that kind of insinuation.
whatever it is called now, most Americans learned their lesson from that disgraceful period in our lives… a time when America was governed more like stalinist russia than like America.
it is in direct violation of the law of this country and the founding principles to deny any citizen the right to free speech and the right to freely associate with those whose words challenge those currently exercising power.
I am sorry that you haven’t learned at least that..
but sadly, it is impossible to have intelligent conversation with people who think that is a valid form of argument.
This has nothing to do with defensiveness..
unless you consider the defense of my sanity trying to talk intelligently with people for whom insinuation is fact… defensiveness…
Given a choice between continuing this type of conversation and sanity.. i will vote for sanity every time.
August 29, 2008 at 11:09 pm #635899
Tonya42MemberOkay charlabob, I wasn’t sure that is why I asked JanS if she was the one who used the term.
Why do you use those terms, do you think it adds credibility to your case or point? Or is it out of anger and frustration?
Personally speaking I think it detracts but that is my opinion.
My intention is not to sound snobbish or judgemental but I do think it detracts credence when a term like that is used. Do I walk around using the term demonrats? No, nor do I think you’d take kindly to it.
August 29, 2008 at 11:13 pm #635900
AnonymousInactiveJoB – I know Tonya can speak for herself, but I just wanted to point out that, in regards to your dinner analogy, it would be more accurate (in comparison to Obama), to say the dinner guest committed a crime, but you remained close to the dinner guest for half a lifetime, went to this dinner guest for advice and exposed your family to this dinner guest and all of his deepest thoughts and beliefs.
I think that would be a more accurate analogy.
August 29, 2008 at 11:17 pm #635901
JoBParticipantNew Resident,
i know from your age that you did not exist as a child bearing woman during a period of time during which birth control and/or abortion were not available as options.
I, however, did live as a reproductive female during the time when friends of mine died from illegal abortions and birth control was not only not available, it wasn’t talked about.
I am not sure how you think that there is no connection between the assumption that life begins at conception and banning birth control..
since many methods of birth control do not prevent conception. they merely prevent the fertilized egg from implanting on the uterine wall… and conception is defined as a fertilized egg.
if the right to life begins at conception.. anything interfering with the fertilized egg implanting on the uterine wall is considered abortion.
If you consider that position extreme, then your candidates definately hold an extreme position.
and that is a position you are supporting by supporting them.
August 29, 2008 at 11:22 pm #635902
AnonymousInactiveNo. I actually will stay with my original assessment that the suggestion you are making is extreme, not my candidates.
Please share Obama’s thoughts on abortion. We haven’t even discussed that yet…..
August 29, 2008 at 11:23 pm #635903
Tonya42Member“JoBT onya,
I have tried, but it looks like i can’t have intelligent conversation with you.”
That’s too bad because it strikes me that you are the one who needs to be honest with yourself. You continue to downplay key issues and pass them off as mere happenstance when in reality, you and I both know that is not the case. Either way, I enjoyed the conversation.
Night!
August 29, 2008 at 11:25 pm #635904
charlabobParticipantLong ago the Repugs decided to say Democrat, rather than Democratic, party because it associated democrats with rats. This was a conscious choice, started by the infamous Lee Atwater in the 80’s and continued by the leadership. In one case, the great misenunciator (GWB) slipped and said “Democratic Party” and looked downright embarassed.
As is always the case, Repugs whine like hell when the same methodology is used against them. Hence, no psychoanalysis on anyone’s part is required.
I suspect nothing will detract from my opinion of you or yours of me; and I suspect also that we’re each equally concerned about said opinions.
August 29, 2008 at 11:26 pm #635905
AnonymousInactiveTonya42, you don’t sound like anything but another person with an opinion. Not sure why you’re receiving the gang up on treatment, although you seem to handle it fine. I don’t agree with your political positions, but certainly agree to your right to have and express them. And demonrats is kinda funny to me but I agree with your point.
August 29, 2008 at 11:30 pm #635906
JoBParticipantNew Resident,
at what point are the right to free speech and the right to freely associate negated by the fact that the person you are talking with and associating with once engaged in political protest?
correct me if i am wrong.. but political protest is the essence of free speech.
I am afraid it is impossible to connect Obama to any possible crimes committed during that political protest since he wouldn’t have been old enough at the time to commit those crimes or been living where it would have been possible for him to inadvertently be included somehow in the commission of those crimes.
So, his crime is enjoying the dinner conversation of someone whose has paid whatever debt he incurred to society and is intelligent and respected enough to be part of the local university.
Have you looked at who McCain hangs out with.. heck, who he does business with and who they do business with?
That’s current terrorism on a global scale…
if we follow your logic, McCain should be jailed and we should throw away the key.
August 29, 2008 at 11:33 pm #635907
AnonymousInactivehttp://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-oped0826byrneaug26,0,4780984.story
I think it’s, at least, refreshing that my candidate will address the issue, rather than ignore it altogether.
When a candidate is so completely vague and fails to commit to any position, their voting record sure comes in handy.
August 29, 2008 at 11:37 pm #635908
JoBParticipantNewResident,
you can certainly have an opinion on whether the candidates you support will follow through with their stance on women’s reproductive issues…
and you can choose to believe that they would not follow such an extreme position..
but are you aware that George Bush has already instructed American departments that they are free to interpret life as beginning at conception and that policies based on that interpretation are already being enacted?
look it up. no lie.
August 29, 2008 at 11:38 pm #635909
RSMember“And is it just a coincidence that those party’s support your candidate?”
Um… they don’t. the communists don’t formally endorse anyone and the Green party has their own candidates.
August 29, 2008 at 11:39 pm #635910
JoBParticipantNew Resident…
abolishing abortion is not a democratic position.
We have held to the notion that life begins at birth and that the right to life.. the right to a productive life.. continues till death.
quaint notion.. isn’t it:)
August 29, 2008 at 11:43 pm #635911
AnonymousInactiveJoB – I’m surprised at your insistance of using scare tactics (something generally claimed to be used by Republicans) to make your arguments.
McCain has had suspect associations, and so has Obama. Heck, Obama was (if my memory serves) endorsed by a terrorist group!
Instead of turning every point or argument into a “Well… McCain this and McCain that”, let’s just have a debate about issues. I think that is what is much more interesting to others who may be contemplating joining in.
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