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July 11, 2013 at 6:50 pm #792560
wakefloodParticipantGoodness, you just are a dog with a bone on this. If our state is so egregiously bad at keeping college costs affordable, surely you can point to a state that has managed to do it right? Where is college tuition at a similar schools to UW/WSU, etc. been kept affordable?
Oh, and doesn’t Washington state have the pre-pay program for parents who start when their children are young?
July 11, 2013 at 7:25 pm #792561
justadumbguyParticipantwakeflood,
States as diverse as Maryland, Michigan, Texas and Florida all have significantly lower in state tuition costs than UW and those universities are ranked relatively similar to UW by US News / World report with some ranking higher and some lower.
July 11, 2013 at 7:35 pm #792562
WFMemberUW tuition/fees $12,483/year
U of Oregon $9,310
I am not saying $9,310 is affordable but it is significantly less than at the UW. Oregon spends a higher percentage of its State budget (~50%) on education than Washington does (~44%)
http://www.collegetuitioncompare.com/statistics/
yes washington does have a pre-pay program.
July 11, 2013 at 7:44 pm #792563
wakefloodParticipantOK, so it’s either unaffordable or more unaffordable. The point being…IT’S UNAFFORDABLE!
Why not focus on the main reasons it’s unaffordable EVERYWHERE and solve the root issue first? Or is that just too damn logical???
OK, this horse is a bloody pulp. I’m out. Enjoy the perfect summer, ya’ll.
July 11, 2013 at 8:24 pm #792564
WFMemberthe root issue in washington is the liberal D’s failed the middle class. they failed to fund education as priority #1, and allowed college tuition to rise at unprecedented rates for years.
college tuition did not rise this go around because the senate provided a counterweight. if not for the counterweight tuition was likely to go up again. the choices the liberal D’s made had a significant adverse effect on the middle class.
yes the sun is out time to go out and enjoy it!
July 11, 2013 at 8:56 pm #792565
skeeterParticipantUW tuition/fees $12,483/year
U of Oregon $9,310
That doesn’t sound unaffordable to me. Actually, it sounds like a bargain when you consider the quality of education that gets you and the increased earning potential.
That’s less than my toddler’s daycare per year. And there are no scholarships or loans available for daycare to make it more affordable.
July 11, 2013 at 9:16 pm #792566
WFMemberi hear in the news that students have over $1T (trillion) in college loans; thus skeeter i respectively disagree.
in washington one of the reasons that tuition has increased so much is because of the wrong choices made by a very liberal legislature that does not serve the middle class.
oregon spends a significantly higher % of its revenue on education than washington does and has kept tuition costs significantly lower than in washington.
July 11, 2013 at 9:17 pm #792567
WFMemberduplicate post
July 11, 2013 at 9:18 pm #792568
WFMemberduplicate post
July 11, 2013 at 9:19 pm #792569
WFMemberduplicate post
July 12, 2013 at 1:22 am #792570
JoBParticipantskeeter.. a full time job in this state at minimum wage grosses as little over 18,000… take out taxes including those for social security and medical and you are lucky to take home just a little more than the tuition for UW for a year..
that doesn’t account for books and fees or living expenses.
tell me again how that is affordable for anyone other than those with significant resources
July 12, 2013 at 2:19 am #792571
JanSParticipantskeeter, I live on what you pay for daycare these days….just saying. Will it always be that way? No, I doubt it…but I am self-employed , and have had to take a lot of time away from work in the past 2 years because of illness, including 18 hours (part time job time) a week on dialysis. Not everyone makes what you make…we’re a diverse society.
July 12, 2013 at 3:05 am #792572
WFMemberthe topic of this post is American Middle Class – how are we doing.
job a person making $18K/year is not middle class.
skeeter lets discuss a hypothetical middle class family of 4 people (2 adults and 2 – kids). combined the family earns $72K/year with decent medical/dental; $6K/month
Monthly costs (rough estimates):
taxes $1,200
housing $2,300 ($450,000 home mortgage and taxes)
utilities $500 (cell, internet, water, electricity)
transportation $500 (one car and transit)
food $500 (smart shopper/coupons)
retirement savings $500
entertainment/clothes/incidentals $500
the above adds to $6K/month; and yes you could squeeze the budget a bit and stop saving for retirement et al and could afford to pay say $500/month for college; thus tuition at $6K a year assuming you could live at home would be affordable. if you need to live on/near campus add at least another $1K/month in expenses.
education is the foremost importance to the middle class. as the example above shows college tuition is no longer affordable to the middle class.
the washington state legislature (controlled by the D’s until this recent year) has failed to fund education adequately. and with regards to tuition has allowed the costs to go up 550% since 1992; see link
http://opb.washington.edu/sites/default/files/opb/Tuition/2012-13_20-Year_T%26F_History.pdf
no increase occurred this year in thanks to the senate, the D’s in the legislature wanted to increase tuition by 3%.
one party control (D’s) in olympia has been very detrimental to the middle class. the D’s have allowed tuition to explode. state revenue has risen faster than inflation and population; thus it is NOT a revenue issue but an issue of how the $’s are spent!
July 12, 2013 at 3:14 am #792573
JoBParticipantWF..
the kid of middle class parents who is trying to put themselves through school is at best making 18k a year…
July 12, 2013 at 3:32 am #792574
elikapekaParticipantThere are many reasons for the decline of the middle class and there are no pat answers. It’s not as easy as comparing a couple of statistics.
Higher education is a path to upward mobility that is becoming less and less affordable. The University of Virginia, when founded by Thomas Jefferson, was free to students. The land grant college system, same thing. As late as the 1970’s, both California and New York had excellent free university systems. Those days are gone. Now universities are often profit centers for private interests. University teaching hospitals often do groundbreaking research for new treatments, but then the profits mostly go to the pharmaceutical company/medical device manufacturer. Professors consult with private industry, again with little benefit to the university.
No other country in the world places such a huge health care burden on individual citizens. When you have insurance and can still be facing tens of thousands of dollars in medical costs, not to mention the cost of the insurance to begin with, you’ll never get ahead.
Wages are stagnant or declining for workers, while the top CEO class now makes hundreds of times more. The idea of paying your workers enough to purchase your own product (Henry Ford, remember?) is long gone. Now it’s just the pursuit of private enrichment, and everybody and everything else be damned.
Looking at past history, we were strongest and most prosperous when tax rates were higher on higher incomes, unions played a bigger part in setting the bar for wages and benefits, and companies understood that while profit was certainly the primary goal, community was important too. The utter selfishness that has been touted as the answer for the last 30 years has been a spectacular success for a few, but a miserable failure for many.
July 12, 2013 at 3:35 am #792575
WFMemberi was identifying what family support for a student that a typical middle class family could pragmatically afford.
at a 50/50 support level (student/state) tuition at the UW would run about $7K a year that would be an appropriate cost.
heck back in the day when i was college student; students with a good job fishing (on the right boat)in alaska could make enough to pay for college with part time work during the school year!
July 12, 2013 at 3:58 am #792576
WorldCitizenParticipantI didn’t think 72k was middle class. Doesn’t it start around 100k?
July 12, 2013 at 4:56 am #792577
justadumbguyParticipantworld citizen
According to the US Census community survey for 2011 (the most recent data available) the median household income for the Seattle Metro is 64k a year. Not quite sure why you would think ‘middle class’ started at a 100k. (BTW US median income is even lower.)
July 12, 2013 at 6:46 am #792578
JanSParticipantWF…if a family is making between 72K and 100K, I don’t feel sorry for them. Having said that, I realize that we all adjust to whatever income level we have. Those who make more spend more on consumerables (I think I made that word up – lol). I agree with Elikapeka in Post #90. There are so many variables affecting this.
By the way, WF, what do you consider someone who makes $48K a year…not a family, but a single person…
July 12, 2013 at 7:47 am #792579
WorldCitizenParticipantjustadumbguy:
Thanks for that. I’m not sure why I thought it started at 100K. I seem to remember reading in a few different places there’s a huge discrepancy in ideas about what income range actually makes middle class.
I guess I just remember it being higher for some reason. Glad to see I made it into the middle class.
July 12, 2013 at 2:35 pm #792580
WFMemberjans a single person making $48K/year would be middle class in my humble opinion.
July 12, 2013 at 2:59 pm #792581
JoBParticipantWF..
in our wildest dreams hubby would never have made the salary he does now…
it’s too bad that this salary doesn’t go as far as the one we once thought was possible
my point is that for most middle class families. that 50/50 split on tuition is not an option after meeting living expenses for the rest of the family.
most of the middle class today lives more like the lower middle class did when i was a young woman…
which means that opportunity for their children is far more limited than most people would like to think.
July 12, 2013 at 3:39 pm #792582
skeeterParticipantGuys, I’ve already said it but I’ll say it again. Here are my opinions.
Q: Who should pay college tuition for poor people?
A: Primarily taxpayers (70%) with the student taking a bearable loan for the difference (30%.)
Q: Who should pay college tuition for middle class ($72k/year sounds about right) and wealthier people?
A: Primarily students/parents (70%)through a combination of savings, loans, and current income with some help from taxpayers (30%.)
These are just my opinions. I know WF feels differently. I respect his/her opinion. Different people come to different conclusions and that’s fine.
Do I feel education is not important? No. Why do I feel that middle and upper class people should primarily pay their own way then? Because taxpayers are burdened enough. Why should JanS making $18,000 per year (and paying sales tax, property tax, etc.) pay for college tuition for my kid when I’m making more than $72k/year? That makes no sense to me. We should only spend taxpayer money on helping poor people, not helping middle-class and rich people. Just my opinion.
July 12, 2013 at 3:43 pm #792583
WFMemberjob i believe that the current split is like 80/20 and when i was in school it was something like 20/80.
it is the D’s in olympia who have allowed tuition to explode. higher education is a path to upward mobility that has become less affordable.
July 12, 2013 at 3:53 pm #792584
wakefloodParticipantHey WF, I have a question. Who’s responsible for the explosion of tuition? Not sure I’m clear what YOU believe about that…
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