Home › Forums › Open Discussion › 12 out of 18 dogs off leash at Lincoln Park this a.m.
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October 5, 2008 at 7:57 pm #588278
aunteesocialParticipantI know this topic has been discussed time and time again. My apologies for dragging it out again, and for being long-winded, but I’m shaken up and just plain “tired of it” today.
This morning near 10 a.m., I was walking through Lincoln Park and 12 out of the 18 dogs I counted were running around w/o a leash. 3 of these dogs were on the beach of the park (big signs, not allowed).
I believe that there are well-behaved dogs that are capable of being off-leash, but there are laws that the community should follow at public parks. I can almost accept that if you have complete voice command control over your dog should it ever be off leash in public. There are many well-trained dogs and for the most part this morning all went well.
But the 9th and 10th off-leash offenders were 2 very big black dogs. They came bounding up the stairs from the beach, running over to me and my 2 dogs. They circled us, and I got all twisted up in the leashes trying to reign in my dogs and I had to (yell) to the owner to “Leash your dogs!” They said, all friendly-like, “Sorry if they scared your dogs”. Did they not see the potential for disaster? I told them that they weren’t sorry and tried to get us out of there as calm as possible.
What would have been a sorry event is if any of us had to make a trip to the vet this morning. If my dogs felt I, or one of them, was being threatened they could try to protect me, or each other.
If the leash would have snapped away from me, who would have been sorry had my dog ran down the beach and up to the street, and then what?
I do keep pepper spray in my pocket, (for the ‘bad guy’) and have never been forced to use it, but that would have been sorry as well.
My dogs would love nothing more than to be allowed to run on that beach, and it’s hard to realize how much joy they would have to run free, but we obey the rules. Maybe we should follow by example, and disobey??
Where is the Enforcement? There could have been some Seattle Parks revenue; In Seattle parks leash, license and scoop fines range from $50-$150, and up to $500 on beaches. I’m not the best at math, but that’s about $2500 in the hour and a half I was there.
“Don’t worry, they’re friendly” can be just the phrase you hear before a dog fight between an off leash dog and a leashed dog. A off-leash dog should not be permitted to approach a restrained dog out of respect for the dogs and the owner, there is no way to know what will happen. The restrained dog can feel at a disadvantage, or have a variety of conditions that could create a fear-based fight.
I know that dog parks aren’t always the most fun, but that is where Seattle dog owners are allowed to have this privilege. We’ve unfortunately had more than one frightening experience at Westcrest with aggressive and predatory dogs, and don’t go there now. And if you have a dog that loves water, Magnuson is all right, but the beach is small potatoes compared to how much fun Lincoln Park would be.
Something that I’ve read in a variety of books and publications is that “it’s not if, but when.” This is something that everyone should keep in mind with any dogs. They are Canine, and that can be stronger than anyone saying sit, or come. Canine nature needs to be respected. They are not small children at a playground. Children don’t have long jaws full of sharp teeth.
I know there will be people who disagree with me, but the topic has to do with safety and the off chance of “when” not “if” occurs and everyone is off to the vet, or hospital, or searching for a frightened dog running away from their “friendly” attacker.
Thanks for reading, if you made it to the end of this… I wish nothing but the best for everyone and their pets. They bring us such joy, but we have a responsibility to ourselves, our pets and the community at large that they bring no potential of danger or fear to anyone. I felt fear this morning of “what if”, and “sorry” certainly would not have paid Sunday morning Emergency Vet.
Thanks again for reading.
(I’ve also copied this to the Seattle Parks Dept.)
October 5, 2008 at 9:08 pm #642413
DianeParticipantthanks so much for your post, and glad to hear you copied to parks dept
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the “dogs running loose” issue makes me crazy; I work with very young children, take them to parks, and tend to avoid Lincoln Park for this very reason; it’s just too dangerous with all the dog owners who ignore the law, even though signs are clearly posted, letting their dogs run all over, often up to the children in my care; this is a HUGE safety issue
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I don’t understand why there is no monitoring of this at Lincoln Park; clearly the owners that let their dogs off-leash know they can get away with it; sure hope you get some response from the parks dept; explanation for lack of enforcement at the least; even better would be taking positive action in enforcing the law
October 5, 2008 at 11:30 pm #642414
ellenaterMemberThis is really weird to me. Not what you said but the fact that I go to Lincoln all the time and have NEVER seen this! I’ve seen a few dogs down on the sand a few times but ALWAYS on leash. So is it a regular thing? I agree that dogs should be on leashes and always have mind leashed. I also almost always keep her off the sand. I say almost because I will go down there if no one else is there. But I am very conscious of making sure she never goes to the bathroom down there. BTW, I know I’m wrong on this, it’s just a personal choice.
October 5, 2008 at 11:38 pm #642415
JulieMemberaunteesocial and ellenater, and all the responsible dog owners out there, thank you for keeping your dogs leashed! Many of us truly appreciate it.
October 6, 2008 at 12:37 am #642416
aunteesocialParticipantMaybe this was an out of the ordinary experience, but it was surprising to me that there were way too many dogs running off leash. 12 of 18, well 20 counting mine. So just over half. Most were away from the paths. That wasn’t such a problem to me personally. The ones that we had to pass on the trail, and the two that came over and pestered us on the path by the water- that’s where it becomes a safety issue.
When Diane mentioned that she’s had happen with loose dogs and children under her care– well, I don’t have kids, but I can’t imagine how scary that must be for parents or those that take care of children, not to mention the child.
I don’t go to Lincoln Park all of the time, maybe twice a month on the weekend, and usually later in the day- probably when the park is more populated and people are more conscious of keeping their dogs leashed. When there were 3 dogs off leash before I made it out of the parking lot, I started counting. I was unpleasantly surprised.
I also don’t usually don’t walk there by myself, and likely won’t do that again on a Sunday morning. In fact, there were two sets of some sketchy characters coming through the park that I felt I needed to turn around at the top of the park and walk around to the top of the waterfront on the street (missing my favorite part of the walk, the steep trail down to the waterfront, boo hoo). I got the feeling that these folks may still have been up from Saturday night.. ? It was not such a great morning for me to feel safe, even with my toothy four-legged friends. Even they got spooked. Better luck next time I suppose.
Chalking it up to a bad day, but if it is ever this bad again I may have to ask if they wouldn’t mind me taking their picture for a school project, The Nature of Entitlement? Just kidding, but hey.
And yes, it is a riot to watch the dogs play in sand! What fun! I don’t like anything about the rules that dogs cannot be on the beach on leash. I do have trouble with that one, and I have a hard time smiling back at the people who are walking along the beach looking up at us on the path, my two tied up and wishing (I’m just guessing.. it’s me that is wishing) they could join in the fun. I think it’s best to have them on leash on a beach anyway because of all the dead junk they can roll in… ew. I’m sure they would love that, but yucko-!
Off to walk the dogs again, we’ll be on the sidewalk- on the lookout for loose dogs, chicken bones that the crows drop from the power lines, pork chops (yesterday), gum, street lunatics, and the occasional grandma. My big dog is scared of that grandma for some reason…? Never a dull moment!
October 6, 2008 at 12:47 am #642417
B-squaredParticipantWhat aunteesocial is describing is what i typically observe as well. Today, over half of the dogs i saw were off-lease. I really don’t get it. I get that americans feel entitled to do what they want and there isn’t much respect for others anymore. what i can’t understand is why the laws aren’t enforced. It seems to me it would pay for itself easily. i would love to see a mobile (perhaps bike-mounted) animal control person patrolling the park. Especially the beach.
October 6, 2008 at 1:31 am #642418
JimmyGMemberDon’t just report it to the Parks Dept.
Online you can report violations of the leash law direct to Seattle Animal Control.
They try to patrol areas with any of their free time they have based on complaints received.
October 6, 2008 at 1:34 am #642419
ariettaParticipantJust adding my observations about how many off-leash dogs I see every time I go to Lincoln Park (2-3 times/week, midday or later). I love dogs, too, and don’t have one. So I just behave as a proper passive aggressive Seattleite: smile at the cute doggies while silently cursing their owners’ disrespect. :) aunteesocial, the letter to the Parks Dept. is a great idea.
October 6, 2008 at 1:47 am #642420
aunteesocialParticipantI looked up the Parks Department, but actually found that Animal Control had the best form of contact to report off leash violations, and specifically off leash violations in our parks.
October 6, 2008 at 2:14 am #642421
hammerheadParticipantAs a responsible dog owner, I am sorry to say the the animal control officers really do have more important things to tend to ie;animal abuse neglect, not to mention taking care of the shelters. I understand your fustrations. It does suck that people don’t follow the rules. This in my eyes should be a police matter. People actually might take it more seriously.
October 6, 2008 at 3:39 am #642422
datamuseParticipantI’ve mentioned this before, but have pretty much dropped out of the discussion entirely because it doesn’t seem to do any good:
I’ve stopped going to Westcrest Park and Lincoln Park entirely because of this issue. Yeah, I know Westcrest has an off-leash dog area. That doesn’t explain why I can’t walk on the trails outside the fenced area without encountering at least one off-leash dog, and usually more than one, at any given time.
It also doesn’t justify the times I’ve been chased, barked at, growled at, and nipped, three times in the past two months while walking or running in Seattle public parks. The most recent incident was just a week ago and it’s the one that decided me–in fact, it was very reminiscent of what happened to you, aunteesocial, to the point that I’m wondering if it was the same people/dogs.
I get that Seattle’s animal control has other things to do; I’ve thought about volunteering for them, in fact, because they do a lot of really good work. I do report when I encounter off leash aggressive dogs, but not with any real belief that it’ll make any difference.
So, I walk and run on the street now. Too bad for me, I guess. I’ve given up.
October 6, 2008 at 3:44 am #642423
guidosmomMemberI go to Lincoln Park on a regular basis, and have been doing so for at least 7 years. What aunteesocial saw is something that I see almost every time I go. I would love to be able to walk both my dogs there at the same time, but can’t do so any more because of our encounters with off leash dogs each time. My smaller dog has been attacked by off leash dogs too many times now. It’s getting quite ridiculous. Especially when West Crest off leash dog park is fairly close by. Aunteesocial, I am so sorry for what you experienced, and my dogs and I are as equally frustrated. Lately I feel like the only safe place to walk them together is Greenlake. :( I’d love to be able to walk them on leash in West Seattle without off leash dogs (Yes… even chihuahuas) charging at us!
October 6, 2008 at 4:07 am #642424
angelescrestParticipantBefore you go to Greenlake…We (mom or dad or kids) all feel comfortable walking our pooch anywhere around Alki Point. I too am jittery around off-leash dogs, but along that stretch from 63rd/Beach to Alki (around the Lighthouse), I have not seen an off-leash dog. And the views are gorgeous!
October 6, 2008 at 4:18 am #642425
ellenaterMemberWow, that sucks! I guess we’ve been lucky. I think I have maybe seen one off leash dog at Lincoln Park, EVER. We go at off times, though. It sounds like it’s a real problem!
I got sketched out there the other day, too. That’s no fun. But maybe today was extra bad? It was here and we didn’t even go to Lincoln Park.
October 6, 2008 at 4:32 am #642426
JacobMember“They said, all friendly-like, “Sorry if they scared your dogs”. Did they not see the potential for disaster? I told them that they weren’t sorry and tried to get us out of there as calm as possible.”
Why would you tell them they weren’t sorry? If you wanted to keep things as calm as possible, that was a really stupid thing to say. Say that to the wrong person and you might end up needing to use that pepper spray.
October 6, 2008 at 5:17 am #642427
aunteesocialParticipantThanks Jacob (and you better not be my nephew Jacob, or I’ll tell your dad!).
Now I’m stupid.. that hurts actually, but hey I’m just text on your screen.
In retrospect, I would have invited them to tea and handed them a pamphlet on canine behavior and training techniques, but I had just been spun around by my frightened dogs and tangled in two leashes and scared that my little guy was going to about to be bitten. Their “all friendly like” was totally fake, disengaged, clueless, and thinking they could smile and aw shucks their way out of it. I would have much rather shouted some expletives, but saying “no you’re not” was not going to get me beat up.
I had already walked out of the park once to distance myself from what I saw as being the ‘wrong people’ to find myself with this lovely couple and their ill-behaved hounds.
Please don’t tell me that was a stupid thing to say. I would not use that phrase in conversation with someone I did not know, or someone I knew for that matter, as it is unkind.
October 6, 2008 at 5:58 am #642428
abstractParticipantWow… Jacob, what is your problem? Clearly it is illegal to have dogs off leash. WTF??
October 6, 2008 at 6:00 am #642429
DianeParticipantok Jacob, now you have slid down that slippery slope from calling her words stupid, to name calling “Hypocrite”, which is against the wsblog rules; please don’t
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back to the point of this thread, dogs off-leash, thanks to everyone for the feedback; nice to hear I’m not alone in just wanting to feel as safe as possible while walking in our parks
October 6, 2008 at 6:32 am #642430
JacobMemberMy apologies, Is it OK to call ones actions hypocritical?
As for dogs, the dangerous ones that people should worried about aren’t going to be stopped by a loosely held leash.
October 6, 2008 at 7:18 am #642431
amrakxParticipantThanks for the post. My little Shih-apso, Coby,(leashed) was attacked by two seemingly friendly off leash white labs, on a trail at Lincoln Park recently. The owners were unable to control their animals and I barely managed to grab and lift Coby out of harm’s way in the nick of time. I immediately reported the incident to Animal Control with time and location descriptions. The owners were embarassed but their actions were inexcusable. Dogs are animals and even the friendliest of dogs can react unpredictably. Coby is friendly and small in size and I am very protective of him. He is very social but for his own protection I keep him leashed and close to my side. He is not aggressive by any means and needless to say the encounter was unprovoked. In any case, dogs need to be leashed at parks with the requirement, this is a public park for everyone to enjoy. Allowing your dogs to roam unleashed is selfish and presumptuos and I will continue to report violations. It’s a matter of respect and consideration for everyone.
October 6, 2008 at 7:29 am #642432
aunteesocialParticipantSorry to hear about your Coby! That’s awful, and sounding too familiar.
Yet another recent example at Lincoln Park:
https://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=5778
This is real life, and the above posts gives more examples of a law-breaking owners with bad results. Regarding the topic of off leash dogs and potential disaster, much could be avoided by simply following WA State Law.
Some dogs and their owners are great, some are not- sometimes there are irresponsible owners, for example- the people who I found to be careless that had 2 unleashed large dogs that circled us and frightened my 2 dogs on leash. I find that to be a problem, and against the law.
One never knows what will happen, and it is not always the dog that is off leash that you need to worry about. It could very well be how the on-leash dog reacts to being approached by an unfamiliar canine while on restraint. Sadly, this can go way wrong, way fast. We all need to play by the rules, for successful interaction whether it is in a dog park, a city park or sidewalk. If the leash is held at all, that would be at least a start and following the law. Any dog can break free of their lead, of course, but if there is no leash at all, then someone is not doing their best to create a safe environment.
I respect many of today’s posts with great advice, experience, and concern. Read ya later- and best to everyone and their four-legged friends!
October 6, 2008 at 10:24 am #642433
JiggersMemberLincoln Park ….every tree is ladened with dog urine.
October 6, 2008 at 4:03 pm #642434
JoBParticipantThe off leash dogs issue has been ongoing for the past year.. but seems to be getting worse again.
hubby came home this weekend wondering if he would be brought up on assault charges if he carried a paintball gun.
i asked him if he planned to use it on the dogs or their owners.
He pulls the dog to the side and goes out of his way to avoid other dogs on his walks with our leashed dogs.. but still encounters at least one unleashed animal up close and personal on nearly every walk.
Sooner or later something very ugly is going happen.
October 6, 2008 at 5:07 pm #642435
mellaw6565MemberJiggers – how do you know? Have you smelled every one?
October 6, 2008 at 6:46 pm #642436
beachdrivegirlParticipanthammerhead, I have to disagree. I believe that this is not a police matter. Until we have a control on crime and gang violence in the West seattle area I would much rather see our funding for the police department go towards criminals than those dog owners who have their pets off leash. I do agree that the animal control department is better equipped to handle those offenders.
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