UPDATE: Protesters revisit councilmembers' neighborhoods in West Seattle

TJ November 22, 2020 (10:07 pm)

News flash. Just like in life, you don’t always get what you want in government, no matter how much of a tantrum you throw.

Derek November 23, 2020 (10:24 am)

Yeah like that Tea Party tantrum and that civil war tantrum. Get real.
Lagartija Nick November 23, 2020 (11:29 am)

Perhaps you could share this little tidbit of knowledge with the Trump/Culp cultists.
- candrewb November 23, 2020 (1:40 pm)
  
  They’ll find out soon enough too.

brian November 22, 2020 (10:17 pm)

Why would you put defunding in quotes? Are you implying that there is an alternative goal and the use of the word defund is a smoke screen?

WSB November 22, 2020 (10:30 pm)

Because it’s a term advocates have chosen to use, rather than a simple objective term. I could have simply written “supporters of cutting police” minus the quotes, I suppose.
- Lisa November 22, 2020 (10:48 pm)
  
  The police used to also serve as the primary ambulance service for the areas they policed. But when a Black neighborhood in Pittsburgh wanted to improve the first response medical care their community was (or namely wasn’t) receiving, they enacted their own service (Freedom House Ambulance Service). The program eventually closed due to lack of funding due to opposition from the mayor of public/private partnerships. Oh, and racism. Oh, and pressure from the police union. Still, it planted the seed from which our current EMS system grew from. So, defunding the police and reallocation those funds to a community oriented solution led to a better system for everyone even though the initial focus was on improving services for the Black community.Anyone here wanna ride to the hospital in the back of a cop car instead of an ambulance next time they’re in need of emergency transportation to a hospital?
- Blbl November 22, 2020 (10:56 pm)
  
  The term defund is pretty simple and objective to me. Stop funding police. The words mean what they say. And it’s way overdue.
  - Elton November 23, 2020 (10:30 am)
    
    Stop funding the police doesn’t really make a lot of sense unless you have an alternate plan that improves on the current model. I know many people who are in favor of “defund” that still want the police to be around but in a reduced role and/or with a different budget structure. So no, it’s not really simple and objective even if it does reflect your personal opinion.
- LR November 23, 2020 (12:56 am)
  
  Thank you for appropriately putting it in quotes.
- Kadoo November 23, 2020 (7:52 am)
  
  I’m with you, WSB. I find the term defund an irresponsible use of language. We can’t completely defund the police, after all. Re-imagine is closer. Restructuring is probably too boring and defund gets a lot more attention. Now that we are paying attention I’d love to see ‘defund’ gone.
  - Derek November 23, 2020 (10:25 am)
    
    We can defund and will. 10 major cities have done so with positive results. There’s no “re-imagining” with police brutality. You can’t undo it when you see a new video each day of police harassing/getting violent/or straight up killing a POC.

CJ November 22, 2020 (10:21 pm)

I guess that really sucks for them..

Wsdweller November 22, 2020 (10:23 pm)

Idiots, some of us are trying to put newborn twins to sleep!

Lb November 22, 2020 (10:29 pm)

Yeah and some people are trying to use their first amendment rights to speak out for other’s lives, Karen.
- West Seattle Lurker November 23, 2020 (1:40 am)
  
  Driving around at night in the dark screaming and shining lights in people’s homes is freedom of speech, err you mean disorderly conduit and disturbing the peace.
- Eldorado November 23, 2020 (7:05 am)
  
  Try using your first amendment right during the day. Why would that be less effective?
- Bert November 23, 2020 (7:35 am)
  
  LB, willing to bet you aren’t stuck taking care of newborn twins (and recovering from the major surgery that likely entailed) in the middle of a pandemic… So maybe not so much with the sexist name-calling?
- John W November 23, 2020 (9:07 am)
  
  “Karen” – really ? Quite presumptuous that LB assumes it is a woman (and not a Black woman) with newborn twins. Either way the use of the racial slur “Karen” is inappropriate. Please?
- brandon November 23, 2020 (12:01 pm)
  
  LB: Name calling and Stereotyping gets you nowhere and demeans your point. Barney.
- wscommuter November 23, 2020 (1:34 pm)
  
  LB – to be blunt, you’re an idiot for calling wsdweller “Karen” for apparently not being pure enough in your eyes. You might want to watch out that the purity of self-righteousness you seem to love so much doesn’t come back to bite you in the rear one day. No pun intended, but, as it happens, the world isn’t nearly so black and white as you’d like to pretend it is, and people making noise late in the evening can – actually – be both offensive and more importantly, counter productive to the very cause you espouse. But I suspect my comments are lost on you.
- Jim November 23, 2020 (5:49 pm)
  
  “Karen?” Aimed at someone you don’t know their gender or the color of their skin? Who’s the racist now?
Lisa November 22, 2020 (10:36 pm)

It’s certainly inconvenient, but those who want a very different public safety model might point out to you that Charleena Lyles never got the chance to tuck her unborn child into bed. ….
- Brandon November 22, 2020 (11:12 pm)
  
  Nor did the Racer Cafe victims, or the Seattle Pacific victims, or the Jewish Community Center. When there’s an violent act happening, are you ready to jump in and stop it?
  - Lisa November 23, 2020 (2:32 pm)
    
    The way it usually goes is that the police show up after the damage is done…not knocking police; that’s just the way it usually goes…..We need to invest in more affordable housing, more mental health support, more violence prevention and less racism.
- Mel November 23, 2020 (2:03 am)
  
  And what would you propose a social worker (if responding to Lyles) have done? She was armed with a knife. As someone with in depth knowledge of other incidents like this, they would’ve called the police. The police around here have more crises intervention and de-escalation training (as well as first hand experience) than your average social worker. That’s not discrediting the work they do, it’s just the truth. Many many times, CPS and APS call the police to go into homes (even those of non violent nature) with them. The council needs to talk to more than just the activists, and those who actually do the work.
- candrewb November 23, 2020 (1:43 pm)
  
  So you don’t want the social worker to tuck her child into bed?
S November 22, 2020 (11:07 pm)

A white noise machine is a good investment. There will always be honking horns, barking dogs, car alarms, loud neighbors, and apparently nighttime protesters to deal with. From one twin family to another, I hope you all get some sleep!
Kh November 25, 2020 (11:06 am)

I have a newborn, not twins, and they did interrupt me trying to put her back to sleep for the who knows how many-ith time. However, in my frustration, I’m still able to remember that I’m privileged enough not to be worried that my child may be shot by police just because of the color of their skin (or profiled or interrogated or any number of things disproportionately and catastrophically effecting communities of color). While I may be fighting to get my child to sleep, I’m not fighting to keep my child alive and safe from a city institution. And for that I’m grateful, and I’m grateful for them to be able to be out there doing this work, when I’m stuck at home with my newborn. Prospective is key. Sleep deprivation is real, and having babies is challenging-but the work they’re doing is for THEIR children-other babies. So I just take a breath and I count my blessings and I remember I’m trying to raise an anti racist baby so we’re going to be respectful.

Keenan Cottone November 22, 2020 (10:34 pm)

Is that why people are honking in the junction?

WSB November 22, 2020 (10:58 pm)

Yes.

Bradley November 22, 2020 (10:49 pm)

Don’t be intimidated. Vote against defunding.

I know a karen who is cool November 24, 2020 (2:13 pm)

Intimidated? Interesting rhetoric, but what you’re really saying is don’t listen, don’t care, don’t help.

Grace November 22, 2020 (10:58 pm)

Appreciate and support citizens’ right to demonstrate. But caravanning
at 10PM through a working-class neighborhood is unnecessary and counterproductive.
By acting in this manner, you are losing the hearts and minds of your supporters
one march at a time. It is not realistic to defund the police by 50%. The
majority of people in Seattle don’t support that, and now it’s becoming clear
that not even the far-left council supports this. Instead, let’s find a compromise
to help our great city!

Kelkouska November 23, 2020 (10:00 am)

Speak for yourself.
- Eldorado November 23, 2020 (9:40 pm)
  
  She did.
Derek November 23, 2020 (10:27 am)

Stop trying to concern-troll. All people, working class and elite need to hear this. We can’t wait for the next George Floyd to stand up to the brutalizing cops. SPD has blood on their hands and needs to be defunded. They make 6 figure salaries to harass and terrorize POCs in Seattle. Enough is enough.
Blbl November 23, 2020 (10:35 am)

Yes, Bradley, speak for yourself. And you are spreading falsehoods. The majority of Seattle does support defunding the police. Look it up, there are several polls contradicting your claim.
- wst November 23, 2020 (5:42 pm)
  
  there are also a lot of seattleites that do not answer polls that do not want the police defunded.
  - Derek November 24, 2020 (8:09 am)
    
    Same goes the other way. Police is rooted in racism. Perhaps the general public needs better education on them and not what DeVos is putting in all our kids’ textbooks.
- Bradley November 23, 2020 (5:45 pm)
  
  Blbl I did and I don’t stand alone. I believing justice but not vindictive acts. Take a ride along some day and get some perspective from the other side. It’s not a perfect world on both sides. If your belief more money solves your issues, there is plenty sloshing around at city hall. Maybe the issue is how it’s spent.
  - Mel November 24, 2020 (2:00 am)
    
    Agreed. People need to take a ride along. If you think the police need to be defunded and are therefore unnecessary, you’ve lived a life shielded from the true violence and pit stains of our society. Lucky you. Some of us have grown up in neighborhoods that rely heavily on police.
ltfd November 23, 2020 (11:53 am)

Fully fund SPD.
- Derek November 24, 2020 (8:10 am)
  
  No. The opposite please.

cljskis November 22, 2020 (11:16 pm)

I think the marchers have arrived in Highland Park

WSB November 22, 2020 (11:17 pm)

Thanks, I was wondering if they had perhaps visited CM Herbold first, or were going there last.

KayK November 22, 2020 (11:23 pm)

Confirmed visit to Lisa Herbold’s place. A vocal group.

Kat November 22, 2020 (11:29 pm)

Doing this in residential neighborhoods when a lot if people have to be up in the morning isn’t cool. Going to a council members home also isn’t okay, their families don’t deserve to deal with that for their work decisions 😕

Chemist November 22, 2020 (11:44 pm)

Lorena came out and met with the marchers one evening (WSB was there with some pushback about being media) and Theresa even had a tub filled with chilled bottled waters to offer when they came to visit her. It sounds like some councilmembers have legitimized these forms of informal contacts.
- John W November 23, 2020 (9:15 am)
  
  Informal contacts indeed. Bowing to the persistent obnoxious intrusive demands of a very few has never been the American Way. Maybe we all should start showing up at the Councilmembers’ homes at night uninvited making noise and demanding to be heard for our particular grievances.Such practices are Trumpian.
- Phillip November 23, 2020 (10:27 am)
  
  No. Teresa, at least, has offered to meet with protestors or protest groups for a proper sit-down discussion any time they’d like, potentially even same day. Their arrival at her house is lazy intimidation and she is properly de-escalating it by being hospitable and empathetic, but certainly not encouraging it. Ignoring them or being less welcoming would be counter-productive, and that’s even before you consider the implications of a female politician daring to be even the slightest bit unkind.
- Blbl November 23, 2020 (10:31 am)
  
  The constitution legitimized them, actually.
Lisa November 23, 2020 (2:43 pm)

Breonna Taylor never got to get up and go to work at all. The families of John T. Williams and so many others have yet to receive justice. No Justice, No Peace.

Joseph November 23, 2020 (1:32 am)

Descending on Council members’ homes isn’t protesting, it’s mob violence. If they marched on Jewish businesses, the homes of African-Americans, or surrounded a mosque they would be arrested for a hate crime. We need legislation in Olympia to make group-intimidation on an elected officials’ or public servants’ residences a crime.

Eldorado November 23, 2020 (9:44 pm)

Yes! Thank You sir.

Nick November 23, 2020 (7:00 am)

Glad I’m not the only one who’s been disturbed by these recent intimidation tactics of mobs showing up at people’s homes. It’s a step too far. I support protests pretty much anywhere except ones that target people’s actual residences. To my knowledge they have come to the homes of multiple councilmembers, the county executive, the head of the Seattle Police Officer’s Guild, the mayor (who’s address isn’t supposed to be public), and made a failed attempt at the former police chief’s home in Snohomish County but were driven away by her neighbors. This is deeply concerning activity to me and should not be normalized, not to mention most of them seem to be happening at late hours. I feel like there’s a super high potential for something to go wrong when large groups of people come into residential neighborhoods to target people where they lay their heads at night. Just the overall tone of these incidents feel very threatening in nature.

Eldorado November 23, 2020 (9:44 pm)

100% agree.

flimflam November 23, 2020 (7:15 am)

yeah, this is the way we should shape policy in the city – listen to those that scream the loudest at your place of residence. the council is at the behest of the city, not 50 “protesters”.

payattention November 23, 2020 (7:17 am)

So…..we “defund” and give money to “community groups”. Do any of these groups actually exist? If so, name them. Who will they be accountable to? Who will hold them accountable?

Peter November 23, 2020 (8:55 am)

This is just sh**y behavior. Protesting at somebody’s home is intended to be threatening. I hope they realize the precedent they’re setting and that such intimidation tactics, if acceptable, are a two way street.

West Seattle since 1979 November 23, 2020 (10:26 am)

People who are on the opposite side of this issue are free to get together with other like-minded folks and form their own caravan to visit councilmembers’ homes.

Eldorado November 23, 2020 (9:49 pm)

Why don’t we March on the homes of those leading these marches to protest against them leading these marches… let’s try 4am.. and see if they like it. Free Speech and First Amendment and all that.
- I know a karen who is cool November 24, 2020 (8:39 pm)
  
  Thats a real lovely attitude to have towards community members who are peaceably expressing their civil rights, for good cause.
  
  Sorry but other peoples rights to life, to live free of racism, brutality, and being killed at the hands of those meant to serve and protect, is more important than your brief minor annoyance, and insecurities around change.
  
  Major change is needed, let it be.

WSMom November 23, 2020 (10:35 am)

First, given the weekly shootings and other violent crime, and the abject failure of the Chaz/Chop, I do not think defunding is the way to go. Second, if the issue is investment in Bipoc communities & addressing root causes of criminality, then surely funding can be found elsewhere in the gigantic Seattle budget. Lastly- I would respectfully invite the leaders of the defund movement to consider if they would be better served politically by hitting “pause” on the defund protests until the Georgia Senate runoff. Moderation please. These protests play right into the hands of the Trumpians.

Derek November 23, 2020 (11:39 am)

Disagree. Doing nothing about police brutality for decades (Dems, and center liberals) is what led to Trump.
- JA November 23, 2020 (1:28 pm)
  
  How is that what led to Trump? The electoral college is what led to Trump. Which is not at all fair or created for any humane reason.it gives unequal weight to rural states. Votes no matter where they are cast should count equally. And now we have a soon to be ex president trying to corrupt the process. Time to end electoral college and trusting middle America’s judgement. Minorities dictating laws and judges over the majority leads to this disaster divided country and unrest. Correcting that would allow for faster reform plus end a practice that was created to count slaves as 2/3 a vote for electoral purposes in 1776. It has no business being part of the process anymore.
  - Derek November 24, 2020 (8:12 am)
    
    Keep telling yourself that. And where did the EC come from? Existed for years? You’re telling me Hillary skipping rust belt states while campaigning was the reason? Get real. There’s 46-51% of America who are full blown fascist or fascist-supporting with another 30-40% who are neoliberal who are okay with keeping fascist entities as long as they have fake POC figureheads to make them feel better.
- Tyr1001 November 23, 2020 (1:40 pm)
  
  What led to Trump was full blown nationalism. It was the promise of a less globalized society and the hope that a complete radical with no political background would be able to turn around the inexorable and for many uncomfortable march towards social equality. Trump was able to capitalize on these sentiments because we were no longer ignoring these issues. Granted social inequity is being fought much harder since he has taken office, but your assertion is objectively false. Trump’s rise was in response to greater calls for social reform, not their absence

WSMom November 23, 2020 (12:22 pm)

Hi Derek,Just to avoid any confusion, I’m certainly not suggesting that we as a society turn a blind eye to police misconduct. I’m all for better training & accountability. I doubt that defunding will achieve the goal of improved policing. I believe defunding will , however, reduce public safety.Respectfully, WSMom

Derek November 24, 2020 (8:15 am)

Police have existed for a century and crime has steadily climbed upwards as cops get more money. There’s no correlation to “more cops = less crime” and there never has. Cops CAUSE VIOLENCE! It’s time to at least end THAT. If you want to see less crime, give stimulus checks to the poor so they don’t have to steal bikes etc. Social inequality leads to crime.

Macie November 23, 2020 (1:27 pm)

Does anyone have any credible evidence that defunding the police will accomplish anything other than provide some kind of revenge satisfaction? I think the entire defund movement has been an emotional knee-jerk reaction to a problem that calls for a more nuanced approach than simply cutting funding by 50%.

Keenan Cottone November 23, 2020 (1:37 pm)

So many Karens in this thread. Inconvenience *is the point* of civil disobedience and protesting. It’s a non-violent, historically proven strategy and one of the few effective weapons average citizens can wield against the rich, powerful, and well connected.

Bradley November 23, 2020 (4:28 pm)

Is that how you “win” Keenan? With stereotype name calling? Thought the Movement was above that?
wst November 23, 2020 (5:47 pm)

keenan, I am neither rich nor powerful and I am not well connected. I am just a working schlub trying to go to sleep so I can bring money home again tomorrow. The night protests in neighborhoods just cause angst, but not to follow the defund cause. it is counterproductive.
- zark00 November 23, 2020 (9:04 pm)
  
  WST – What Keenan explained to you is that non-violent civil protest is, by intention, disruptive. It calls attention to an issue and encourages regular ‘working schlubs’ to be involved, to learn, and to care about an issue. If the protest is keeping you up at night, it makes you aware of the issue, and compels you to instruct your public representatives to fix the problem. It’s kind of civics 101. You don’t get mad at, and demand action from, the people who are being wronged – you demand action and resolution from the people in charge. You should be telling your city leaders to solve the problem of police brutality, not telling protestors to shut up.
  - Chemist November 23, 2020 (11:45 pm)
    
    Sounds something like a whataboutism redirect suggestion. Next we can be annoying and prevent neighbors of council people from sleeping with the message to call your city council to make sdot build more bike parking.
    - I know a karen who is cool November 24, 2020 (8:50 pm)
      
      Cone on now. ‘Build more bike parking’ is hardly the same thing as protesting people being unjustly killed by police. Just stop.
Eldorado November 23, 2020 (9:55 pm)

I respectfully disapprove of your use of ‘Karen’ (or ‘Kevin’ for that matter.). Words, terms, and labels such as this are sort of how we got here… AND it also shows how you ‘cause’ is merely opinion… as in us vs. them… and nothing more.

Mj November 23, 2020 (4:09 pm)

Instead of the constant protesting, please identify an alternative that has a proven track record.

Derek November 24, 2020 (8:16 am)

Defunding has a proven track record. It’s now happening in 10+ major US cities and where it’s happened by 15% or more. And working to help mental health and cutting down on police-related violence.
- Jim November 24, 2020 (11:02 am)
  
  Sure, less police = less police-related violence. AND less police = more non-police related violence. Name those 10 major cities, Derek. Minneapolis better not be on your made-up list.
  - Derek November 24, 2020 (11:15 am)
    
    Minneapolis is doing quite well. WaPo article has already been debunked by local politicians and data. Austin TX (cut 150 million), San Francisco (cut 1/3 of police budget), NY and LA have both slashed over a billion to their 2021 police budgets, a 15 million cut to Washington DC, 22 million cut in Baltimore, 16 million in Portland, 33 million in Hartford CT. Even conservative Salt Lake City cut their police budget 5 million. Need more examples? All have had similar or lower crime since defunding or defunding announcements.
    
    We’ve had more crime as police departments have increased their money over the past decade+. Why is that? There’s no correlation between police budget and crime. Crime happens because of social inequality. Not because cops come two hours later after an assault or burglary to jot notes. Prison systems are growing not because there’s crime. But because there’s hyper capitalism causing hyper property. People would not steal bikes and break car windows as often if they had basic universal income. It’s really simple.
    - Jim November 24, 2020 (1:06 pm)
      
      Those are cuts to next year’s budgets. Standby for the results. You are clearly pushing an extreme agenda. Minneapolis is not doing “quite well.” They are contracting with the local sheriff’s office to get help with their crime spree.
    - Mel November 26, 2020 (1:40 pm)
      
      Seriously? You’re going to use Minneapolis as a place doing well? All it takes is a quick google search to find out that they’re drowning. None of your examples are good and they don’t show a reduction in crime due to defunding.

ScubaFrog November 24, 2020 (9:40 am)

Trumpist tactics – look where that got him. I reject this kind of bullying wholesale, and what they stand for.I couldn’t understand what they were screaming. There’s a much more effective way of protesting: Dr. Martin Luther King Junior comes to mind – not shrieking imbeciles circa 2020 on both sides of the aisle.I fully expect to be called a “karen” now by the extremists on both sides – and I welcome it as an educated moderate. We need police. Police need reform.

Lagartija Nick November 24, 2020 (12:09 pm)

Again, white people holding up MLK Jr. as some paragon of protest virtue when he was assassinated for his efforts is just gross.
Lisa November 24, 2020 (12:41 pm)

Minneapolis PD did every. Single. Thing. that is recommended to “reform” police….and George Floyd’s murder is a fine example of the result. The history of modern policing is rooted in slave patrols and hence, at heart, is a racist institution. “Defunding” doesn’t mean “no public safety”. It means rethinking the entire system to make it safe for everyone…. As it is, 911 in Seattle is going to (finally!) be divorced from SPD and alternative responses to things like mental health crises will be developed. Cities like Eugene have actual working models for these types of programs. SPD officers are entirely unequipped to deescalate people, and usually just make things worse. I worked as a nurse at Harborview for 16 years and often dealt with some very distressed/angry people; I never once felt like I needed or wanted a gun to deal with them. I believe that truly evil people are pretty rare, and would like to see how much less alcohol/drug abuse, petty crime and mental illness there would be if every person’s basic needs were met??? And don’t bother trying to tell me that we “can’t afford it.”
- Jim November 24, 2020 (1:08 pm)
  
  Lisa, you are skipping the part about getting other programs up and running properly before you shrink the SPD. Doing it backward is dangerous.
- ScubaFrog November 24, 2020 (1:35 pm)
  
  American police are far too brutal, far too quick to kill, and engage in violence at the drop of a hat. Moreover systemic racism is real in the judicial system, and America (who gets pardons? wealthy white men, not blacks). Allocating funds from the militarization of the police to mental health services would be great. Finding funds to train the police, get rid of police immunity would be prudent. I wish everyone wanted that.I wish I had answers, I come away with many many more questions than anything. Dr. Cornel West stated that we need police (to what degree of a police presence, I don’t know). However, he said police have got to have substantive accountability. They don’t have that. Without the ability to prosecute police and hold them accountable for breaking the laws they’re supposed to uphold, there is no consistent system of laws. We see rich white men break laws daily in DC, but for some reason due to their political status, they’re above prosecutorial reproach. So are the police.I can empathize with America’s rage V police 100%. We see lynchings by American police too often, and what happens to these officers the majority of the time? Nothing. They may be fired. Many are rehired. Most aren’t even prosecuted. Of those that are, most aren’t found guilty, or prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Something has to change. I have faith in Pres Biden VP Kamala Harris and the Black Caucus, I have faith in Black Public Leaders, Minorites, Women and Allies of the aforementioned. I’m not impressed with the tactics observed in the video obtained by The WSB, but who knows who those people are. As I said, the model for protest lays at the feet of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
  - Lagartija Nick November 24, 2020 (3:05 pm)
    
    And again, MLK Jr, was beat, gassed, arrested, jailed and ultimately assassinated for his “model protest”. We need to stop telling those affected by systemic racism and police brutality what is “appropriate” protest.
  - Mel November 26, 2020 (1:44 pm)
    
    Police in America make over 300million contacts per year. And of those, how many end up in someone being killed? If they “engaged in violence at the drop of a hat” as you say, we’d see far more killings. Just because you see a headline or something on social media doesn’t make it fact.