37 Replies to "Teardown-to-townhomes: Who gets the boot"

• Jan June 3, 2007 (11:48 am)

  heaven forbid that developers should be upfront and give you more than a month to get out…no wonder they have such a bad reputation. I wonder how they look themselves in the mirror sometimes…again, cynical me :)

• WSB June 3, 2007 (1:24 pm)

  Actually the people who wrote to us did say they were given a couple months’ notice, so we don’t want the developers to get an undeserved knock for that. But we do wonder about the expectation that prospective tenants will be told “this property is earmarked for future development” — or is it simply, buyer (renter) beware? In which case, one could suggest caution may be in order when renting -anything- along Cali or Fauntleroy these days.

• Sarah June 3, 2007 (2:14 pm)

  No kidding; my building at California & Graham was just purchased. Everyone in the building was notified Friday that it had been sold and now a meeting is scheduled for the new owner and management team to talk to us residents about the “possibility” of converting our units to condos. I’m sure it’s a fairly decided thing; I wish they wouldn’t use terms like “possibility”. In any case, my fiance and I have already started looking for a new place to rent. It is definitely getting harder with so many conversions going on. Unfortunately, we are not in a position to buy right now, mostly because we are both still in school and have grad school (and post-grad for him) ahead still. We don’t know what our incomes will be like in a few years, and who wants to buy a converted 1960’s apartment (*ahem* SeventyOne…)?

• Magic 8 Ball June 3, 2007 (2:22 pm)

  And what was on the property before the doomed brick duplex units were built? probably a single family dwelling of some sort.

  My point is progress (if one can call development of any form progress) takes place on a constant basis. Many in Seattle call for affordable housing only to damn the building of multi-dwelling units as evel — even though those very multi-dwelling units are about as affordable as one can get.

• d June 3, 2007 (4:00 pm)

  Face facts, anything in West Seattle, except those neighborhoods that are the “worst”, are going to be developed.

  This is San Francisco in the 60’s. If the Code allows it, we will build more, and , more. If you don’t like it, complain to the City Council. The developers don’t dictate land use (although I’m sure they would love to), the clowns you voted into Office do.

  Vote your urban development issues next election, not your “well, I support this and that, and I like that”, vote for their policies that you don’t like.

  West Seattle is going to be high density development, whether you like it or not. Remember dear old Mayor Norm Rice, and his, Urban Villages.

  Well folks, we are still designated as one. Too bad, such sorow, suck it up, and do something (besides cry and whine) if you don’t like it.

• Sue June 3, 2007 (4:00 pm)

  That link is very helpful about finding out landlords; thanks! I lived at West Ridge Park for about 6 months before I started hearing the rumors about the condo conversion. That’s when I started checking the DPD site and found out the rumor was true, long before they ever admitted it to us. So when we were looking for a rental to move to in April, you can be sure I did my homework on the address before I even called the phone number about the house, making sure no DPD permits were issued. I had a talk with the landlord before taking it and told him our experience and said that we were looking for a long-term place to live, not another 1 year stepping stone. And while I know that situations change, what was his current plan for selling this duplex and turning it into condos? Of course he says he’s not, and I believe that right now he’s not, but after having it happen to me once, I’m living with the uncertainty of wondering if and when it will happen again. Hopefully that won’t come to pass, but you know that if a developer offers enough money, money can talk.

• Sue June 3, 2007 (4:04 pm)

  Oh, incidentally, I was on the Mosaic Homes website (people who are turning West Ridge Park into condos). in the past their “coming soon” section simply said “West Seattle, Summer 2007” which we all assumed was West Ridge Park. Now I notice it has two West Seattle entries: one sais “West Seattle – in the Westwood area – Fall 2007” (which would be West Ridge Park) and the other says “West Seattle – in the California Avenue area – Summer 2007.” I wonder what property that is referring to. Or if those tenants even know about it.

• The House June 3, 2007 (4:28 pm)

  Although it might not coincide with many of your sympathetic ideals, landlords have the same right tennnats have to give notice to leave. How come you people don’t cry when a tennant gives 30 days notice to move? The landlord most likely has to pay a mortgage and if he/she doesn’t have a rent paying tennant how are they going pay?
  The fact of the matter is that apartments should be be lived in short term. If you chose to live in an apartment log term, you WILL be taken advantage of in one form or another. My suggestion to those people being displaced is to use this as a catalyst to PURCHASE your own property.

  Suck it up and rub some dirt on it!

• Sue June 3, 2007 (4:44 pm)

  A little research found that the new Mosaic property “in the California Avenue area” is the one at Graham and California: http://www5.metrokc.gov/reports/property_report.asp?PIN=0826000020
  Henry Popkin (who sold it last) was the original owner of West Ridge Park too. If you’re worried about conversion, I’d be wary if you see Henry Popkin as the owner of your property, and also if it’s run by Allied Group – that was the new management company that was brought in after Popkin sold, and they seem to be the ones brought in to do Mosaic’s “dirty work” of facilitating the conversions. They were the management involved in ones in Kirkland and Everett as well. Allied manages a few other properties in the area too (like Westhaven on Holden) and one in Arbor Heights. I don’t know if they’re involved in the one on Graham, but I wouldn’t be surprised. Allied Group’s website is not up to date on the properties they manage, as West Ridge Park isn’t up there.

• Sue June 3, 2007 (5:27 pm)

  House, when offered the opportunity to buy our conversion, we considered it. And we realized it would cost us 2-1/2 times what we paid in rent for the same place. And would’ve pushed us so close to the limits of what we could afford that one unexpected major expense (or a job loss) could put us into foreclosure. Then the same people who ask us why we won’t buy will be first to scold us for buying when we weren’t ready to do so and contributing to the problem.
  As for not crying for landlords when a tenant leaves, it’s a rare apartment that sits for long unless it’s truly a piece of trash or its way overpriced. Every apartment I’ve seen (and worth renting) has a line of people waiting for it. And if a landlord is in such dire straits that a month of missed rent causes them problems, then they are pushed as thin as I wouldn’t be if I had bought my condo, and that’s just foolish business practice.

• mona June 3, 2007 (7:43 pm)

  House, that’s exactly why we bought our own home. After living in apartments, we got fed up with paying someone else’s taxes and living in a place that was probably built with chicken wire and cotton balls. But having said that, I worked as a part-time apartment manager and we probably received about a hundred faxes, emails and phone calls a week about vacancies. If a tenant did give his/her thirty day notice, we had about five people ready to take that spot.

• WSB June 3, 2007 (8:04 pm)

  There is a place for good-quality rentals in our world and we wonder where that place will be once all this redevelopment dust settles (if it ever does). We were not able to afford our little house until after about a decade of renting (other cities plus our first two years in Seattle).

• Jan June 3, 2007 (8:57 pm)

  Dear Mr. House…I have lived in West Seattle for 32 years. At one time I was married, had 2 incomes, was a happy homeowner. Then…divorce, serious illness..not one, but two…a downsize in income. I have always elected to live AND work in West Seattle, giving back to my community. This is my home. I am 60 years old…I rent…I cannot afford to buy just about anywhere in Seattle on my not so big income. I am not whining…I’m stating a fact…and I can damn well guarantee that I’m not alone in this. I agree that if you can afford it, buy, buy, buy. But…there is a place for renters in this world. Let’s hope that some affordable places still exist once the developers have their fill of West Seattle. Or what? Too bad? go live in a tent? Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on your way out? Hey…maybe you have a basement I can move into…I’ll pretend to be your MIL – lol…

• Jiggers June 4, 2007 (2:20 am)

  I just want to let you guys know where I’m at. I make a very decent income, but right now I don’t want to buy for several reasons, I am single,don’t have kids, and may move back one day to my home state. Its less hassle for me to just rent than buy. I have made investments elsewhere, but not in real estate. I know I need to one day get into the game soon since I am pushing middle age. I like my life simple and not complicated. Yes, real estate investment is a very good bet but not for everybody. There’s just too much headache in owning property. I have not committed myself to live in Seattle for the next 20 years. But if rental prices keep going up sharply, I may be forced to buy something and call it my own.

• Mike June 4, 2007 (5:38 am)

  Perhaps it is time for the entire city to open up to the use of Detached Accessory Dwelling Units to ease the shortage of rental apartments. With the exception of the SE District, any mother-in-law apartment, or Accessory Dwelling Unit, within the city of Seattle must be inside of the single-family home. Usually this is a basement which is normally not such a pleasant place to live. Detached ADU’s however can be built separate from the main house such as a new stand alone small building in a rear yard or a converted backyard detached garage. Learn more about DADU’s here: http://www.seattle.gov/dpd/Planning/Alternative_Housing_Choices/Overview/default.asp

• Sue June 4, 2007 (7:07 am)

  Jan, I totally understand your situation. My husband and I are in our our 40s. We make a decent income (all things considered). However, after his being out of work 2 years after 9/11 (we were in NYC at the time) and my many illnesses and medical expenses, we ended up with debt. Rather than go bankrupt, we chose to pay it off. Moving out here was a further expense, and we took 20% paycuts from our Manhattan salaries, so debt paydown is slower. So there’s no downpayment, no equity to use from any former residence, and our money is limited by what we need to pay back each month. Like you, I’m not whining about it – it is what it is, and I work with what I’ve got.
  At this point, if I pushed myself to buy one of these condos in WS, I’d be paying a mortgage until I was 75 years old and spending those next 30 years taking no vacations, having no fun, having no life . . . just paying mortgage and praying nothing went wrong with the house unexpectedly. Oh, and probably not even having money for retirement because it would all be tied up into that mortgage. Or, I could move far from Seattle, commute hours a day, to get a lower priced house, be miserable in the suburbs and with my commute. At one point back east I commuted 4 hours a day on 3 trains to work; after 7 years of that, I’m not willing to do it again, even to own a home.
  Oh, and I would be willing to bet that most people who sit here anonymously at the computer and tell us to just get off our butts and buy already would also not be able to do so if they hadn’t bought their first home when it was incredibly cheap years ago, got help from family financially (which I cannot), or makes an incredibly high salary. Some of us just have different paths in life, and I wish some homeowners wouldn’t be so smug as to think that renters are no better than the stuff on the bottom of their shoe.

• Jan June 4, 2007 (11:00 am)

  Sue.. Amen to that !!!!

• Dis June 4, 2007 (1:16 pm)

  Hats off to all renters! (I was one too for many years) NO ONE should have to explain or make excuses for renting instead of buying. There are as many life circumstances as there are people in the world, and it’s the height of arrogance for anyone to flaunt home ownership or criticize renters. I know very wealthy people in this city who chose to rent (even one who lives in a motel!) for reasons of their own.

• eric June 4, 2007 (3:07 pm)

  cry me a river! as others have mentioned, complain to your city council member (oh, that’s right, we don’t have one, so just take your pick of the 9).

  I wish I could afford to live in San Francisco – a nice place near Alamo Square would be swell. I can’t, so I don’t.

  If you a renter, you are entitled to 30 days notice, I believe. If you get more than that then you are lucky.

• Sue June 4, 2007 (3:32 pm)

  Actually, Eric, I have spoken with Tom Rasmussen, who is spending a lot of time working for the rights of tenants involved in condo conversions and affordable housing issues. http://www.seattle.gov/council/rasmussen/
  He was very interested in the details of my situation and of those being displaced by the conversions and we have exchanged e-mails with details, which he has passed on to others involved in the cause.

• K June 4, 2007 (7:16 pm)

  So Eric, in your world only the ‘haves’ that can afford to buy a house or condo should be allowed to live in Seattle? Those of us that can’t should commute long distances or pick up and move somewhere less expensive like, say, Moses Lake? I live on Delridge and I’m being displaced by a condo conversion. I’m not whining because I can’t afford to live in Queen Anne – I chose Delridge because it was what I could afford and it is close to my job in downtown Seattle. I work for a non-profit and contribute to the fabric of society in this city, but I should hit the road because I can’t afford a 400k townhome? If that’s the way people feel, then they’re going to have a hard time getting social services or finding people to teach their kids.

• The House June 4, 2007 (10:24 pm)

  Since so many of you look at me as Mr. Evil, look at this “renters”. Let’s say that you pay $1000 per month for rent in Seattle. That comes out to be $12,000 per year that is going into someone else’s pocket and is paying down their mortgage. Let’s say that my mortgage is $1,000 per month. I pay MY mortgage down $12,000 and also can take heart that I will most likely see 7%-15% appreciation in value (for a $250,000 house that equates to $17,500 to $37,500). There is no logical explanation why you would not WANT to buy into this type of market. Now, I understand that things happen (medical, divorces, deaths, etc). If something like that happens and you don’t see any other choice, I would suggest MOVING to a less expensive place to live (Eastern WA, Idaho, Texas, etc). Your dollar will stretch alot further. If you chose to stay in Seattle and get priced out, don’t complain….it was your own decision and market forces are what they are!

• K June 4, 2007 (11:08 pm)

  House, if you can tell me where in Seattle I can get a mortgage for $1000 a month, I’d jump on it. A mortgage of $1000 a month is next to impossible to find. You just don’t get how elitist you sound by telling us that if we can’t afford it, then just move. I honestly don’t know why you don’t understand the importance of rentals in a community. Not all of us are in a position in life where we make the kind of income to afford a house. Here’s a fact for you – The median income in King County is a little over 40k per year. The average income needed to afford a 250k house is over 60k per year. That leaves a lot of people out in the cold. Look, I get it – there’s a market for these townhomes. I’m not complaining that my apartments are going condo. I understand that the owners need to do what maximizes their profit. I just get so offended by the people that suggest those in apartments are somehow stupid and or lazy for not running out and buying a house. Whether you like it or not, the cost of housing WILL impact a community.

• Jan June 4, 2007 (11:11 pm)

  gee, House…what crap. I don’t have a huge bank account for the damned big deposit they want…enough, already…why should I have to put up with the likes of you to tell me to move away from my home, my family..because, what? it’s cheaper? Oh, please. Give me a break…it’s another case of the haves and the have nots…and your attitude sucks. I’ve listened to you rant..but wait until they want your property or someything else of yours and you will be the first person up there bitching…how dare you take such a smug attitude with those that might not be as monetarily well of as you. I resent it and you. My suggestion is…move yourself to the Eastside with all the other smug people. And here I was beginning to tolerate you and your “I’m better and smarter than you” attitude.

• Jan June 4, 2007 (11:46 pm)

  k – I can’t agree with you more…there should be a place for all of us, not just the “haves”. he sounds elitist? smug, too.. Luckily, I have a great place in a great neighborhood, at a great rent…and hope against hope that it stays that way :)

• The House June 5, 2007 (7:17 am)

  K and Jan, I’m going to bring civility back to the conversation. You’ve turned to name calling(“elitist”). I rented an apartment from 1990-2003. I wish someone would have sat me down in 1990 and had a similar conversation with me that I am having with you. I wasted over $90,000 in that time period on rent. Believe it or not, I’m trying to arm you with financial education (something we sadly lack). You made alot of assumptions in both of your responses to me. Just because I own a home doesn’t make me elitist. May I remind you that home ownership is one of the reasons so many folks come to our country? If you CHOSE not to own, that’s your decision. You just don’t have room to complain about rent, being displaced or question why prices rise. The statement of “have vs. have nots” clearly indicates that you have a victim mentality. I worked extremely hard to purchase my home and will purchase more in the future and rent them to people just like you (it will build my retirement and kids college education funds). You could purchase a home if you decided today that it was a goal of yours.

  K, I just did a search on Windemeres’ site for homes under $150,000 in Washington. Over 3,000 properties popped up. Granted, most are rural areas and none are in West Seattle but I saw a handful in the first 30-40 that were located in the Puget Sound area. I hope you know that mortgage payments are based on how much you put down and what your interest rate is, but a $150,000 home at a 6.25% interest rate would be right around $1000 per month.

  It comes down to what you CHOSE to do with your finances….make yourself money or make other people money.

• eric June 5, 2007 (7:52 am)

  yeah, it sucks, but thousands of people move to the suburbs because they can’t afford to live in the city. It’s called life people.

  I suppose if we were buldozing duplexes to replace them with low-rent apartement towers, it would be OK. That is what we would need to do if we made it so anyone who wanted to could live in the city regardless of how much money they make.

  Do you really think people choose to live in Kent?

• Jan June 5, 2007 (11:16 am)

  House…once again…I was a homeowner for 20+ years in West Seattle.Divorce forced a sale…a serious illness depeleted savings after divorce (I lost insurance).Please do not assume that you know my circumstances, or that I’m lazy, or that I don’t understand finances. I make enough to live. I’ve had 9 surgeries in the last 2+ years, 8 cancer related. Civility in this conversation goes for both sides. I’m 60…I’m not whining about my life circumstances, it’s just a fact…it is what it is…I deal with it. You have no idea what your life will be like in your later years…one or two catastrophes can ruin you financially, and you have not walked in my shoes. I’m proud of you that you have a plan…but you’re not me, and for you to sit smugly and tell me that I should suck it up, figure out a downpayment, and move to a place where I cannot ply my trade and make a living isn’t an answer. You don’t have to educate me on anything. I’m pretty clear on things, as I’m sure K is. Good on you that you have a plan and know finances…that doesn’t make you smarter than me…

• Jan June 5, 2007 (11:19 am)

  oops…didn’t mean to post twice…sorry about that

• Jan June 5, 2007 (11:33 am)

  and, eric…exactly…why would I choose to live in Kent? lol..first, I don’t own a truck, second, I don’t wear a ballcap…hehe… just kidding, all you Kent people out there. When I gave up my house due to divorce, I had a teenager with me, had been out of work for a year due to an extremely serious illness. I was getting back into the work force as a self-employed massage therapist. I wasn’t privy to knowing what prives in this area would do in future years. I love West Seattle, it’s been my only home on the West Coast. I work here so I can give back to the people in my community. I guess I resent at times the notion that, too bad, you don’t make enough to matter here, go someplace else where it’s cheaper, even if it’s out of what you know, eastern WA, a rural area, or even out of state..where you know no one, and your family isn’t close by. If I had known that there was the possibility of being priced out of the area 11 years ago, perhaps my decisions would have been different. I live in a great apt. in the Admiral area, a great neighborhood, and have great rent…I’m hoping that doesn’t change anytime soon. None of us really knows what will come down the pike to affect us, now, do we? It can all change in an instant.

• Jiggers June 5, 2007 (11:34 am)

  How come is it that it seems that the farther south you go say past Roxbury to Burien, more low income people live their than north of Roxbury up to Admiral district?.

• WSB June 5, 2007 (12:38 pm)

  People DO choose to live in Kent. And Sumner, and North Bend, and Lynnwood, etc. etc. We work with a flotilla of them. They have some aversion to being anywhere within the Seattle city limits, and it’s not a money issue.

• The House June 5, 2007 (1:08 pm)

  Jan, you know you’re right. Life sucks, I think I’ll go play in traffic. You did an excellent job of making everyone see that renting is more advantageous than purchasing. I’m putting my house on the market right now! :)

• A homeowner June 5, 2007 (1:39 pm)

  House, if someone had that conversation with you back in 1990, would you have actually been able to buy a home at that time? Or the year after? Would you have dropped everything and moved to the most affordable area in the Puget Sound just to buy a home?

  Of course we’re in the realm of the rhetorical and Monday morning quarterbacking, so the answers don’t really matter. The point is, every ‘opportunity for all’ needs to be weighed against a person’s own reality. Renting vs. homeowning is not as simple as “will I or won’t I?” What makes sense now might’ve been unwise or impossible then. What eventually worked for you might not ever work for someone else. While I don’t think you’re necessarily elitist, I think it’s rude and short-sighted to suggest that people who rent are somehow ill-advised, making the wrong choices or not working hard enough.

• d June 5, 2007 (6:38 pm)

  WELL, golly, shucks, and WOW –

  Eric, Jan, and all of the rest _ ,

  This is not a hot topic ?

  You will never (right) see the number of responses to this topic. Apparently, you will ALL now get involved with WS, and the problems that don’t concern us.

  Among which is the survival of the Charlestown Cafe. Or, where Petco might be. Come on, is that the most pressing problem we have?

  Jan, Eric,

  Keep up the discussion, and tell them all to go to hell.

• The House June 5, 2007 (8:33 pm)

  D, What school did you go to? I want to make sure I don’t send my kids there. Your rant above makes no sense.

• Jan June 5, 2007 (8:57 pm)

  thanks, d…:) I’m done…lol…

Sorry, comment time is over.